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Do Not Call Registry Gets Glowing Reviews
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Fri Jul 11, 2008 01:54 PM
from the bug-me-not dept.
from the bug-me-not dept.
coondoggie writes to tell us that in a recent report to Congress by the FTC, the National Do Not Call Registry got glowing reviews. They seem to be well established now with $21 million in fees in the bank, 22 successful court cases, and an almost 70% approval rating. "In 2007, a total of 6,242 entities paid fees totaling $21,602,003 for access to the National Registry. According to the FTC, telemarketers and sellers can access registered telephone numbers and pay the appropriate fee for that access, if any, through an Internet website dedicated to that purpose. The only information about consumers that companies receive from the National Registry is the registered telephone number. Since the Registry's inception, a total of 18,197 unique entities have paid fees for access to the National Registry. The total amount of fees paid by all entities since the inception of the National Registry through the end of 2007 is $80,629,778, the report stated."
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Two problems still (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Still opt-out style. Unless you add yourself to the list, you are fair game for callers
2) Still ineffective against pollsters, politicians, and fundraisers
It's better than nothing, but there are certainly ways to make it better.
Not the end state (Score:5, Interesting)
No one bothers people on cell phones. Probably due to pricing. Interesting, how the flat rate for the home line makes spamming people somehow acceptable.
Parent
Re:Not the end state (Score:5, Informative)
No, they don't bother people on cellphones because it is illegal. It has nothing to do with pricing.
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Re:Not the end state (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Not the end state (Score:4, Funny)
I have been using a personal cellphone as my primary contact number for the better part of a decade, and to date have only received two spam texts (when I was with Nextel, 6 years ago) and not a single unsolicited sales phonecall. About twice a year, someone dials a wrong number and gets me, to which I politely tell them that no, there is little chance that Joe Bob Jackson Seefus Jr. lives even NEAR me.
Parent
Re:Not the end state (Score:5, Informative)
My understanding of WHY it was illegal to bother people on cell phones though was that it costs money to the person you're calling. Unlike landlines which only charge for outgoing calls.
Like a collection agency cannot cost you money in an attempt to collect what you owe them and likewise can't call cell lines.
At least that's the way of it in my home state.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The expense is an excuse for why it's banned on cellphones and not to landlines.
The real reason was cell phone users weren't willing to tolerate unsolicited calls to their cell phones. Yes, it's because people were having to pay for the calls, but if land line users would stand up like that to unsolicited calls of any sort they too would be banned. Or at least the bulk of the calls that were placed purposefully would be.
Re:Not the end state (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had my current cell for a number of years now. I really can't figure out how I did it but some how I rigged my phone not to ring if your not in my phonebook. I have no clue how I did it but it works. It is the main feature on my phone, nokia 6820, that is why I won't part with it.
One of the monkeys down the phone store tried to talk me into a new palm beast with a 300 price tag. I told him why I kept the old one and he called bullshit until I showed him. He still insists that it is impossible.
My saying is if my phone doesn't know you I don't want to talk to you.
Parent
Re:Not the end state (Score:4, Informative)
It doesn't work like that.
Bad debts get resold from one agency to another.
In theory, each time it gets sold, it is cheaper (because there is less chance of collecting if everybody else has failed to collect so far).
Anyway, each new agency starts off with the same information, they don't pay heed to anything like do-not-call information from the previous agency's efforts (after all, that might be the reason the previous agency failed to collect).
Parent
Re:Not the end state (Score:5, Interesting)
Illegal or not, over the past year I've gotten a huge number of telemarketing calls on my cell. Since putting it on the do-not-call list those calls have stopped.
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Re:Not the end state (Score:4, Funny)
A statement that is only technically correct. All of the telemarketing calls I get on my cellphone are recorded messages.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Which is doubly illegal, at a minimum. Those people are liable for severe civil penalties. I just moved to GA and am familiarizing myself with the legal system here so that I can begin to exact my revenge on companies that autodial my cell phone number. And by "companies" I mean "political advocacy groups".
Re:Not the end state (Score:5, Funny)
No one bothers people on cell phones.
But people on cell phones bother everyone.
Parent
Re:Not the end state (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Not the end state (Score:4, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not the end state (Score:4, Funny)
If I had mod points, I'd mark this "redundant". Not the whole article, just the words "telemarketer" and "con-persons".
Parent
Re:Not the end state (Score:4, Funny)
Massachusetts Volunteer Firefighters Association
...
I hope those bastards burn in hell
I suspect they've got a fighting chance at avoiding that particular fate...
Parent
Re:Two problems still (Score:5, Interesting)
All you'd need to do is direct all incoming emails @yourdomainnamegoeshere.com to one account, set up an auto-opt system and an auto-respond system, run through all numbers in your area code.
Parent
Re:Two problems still (Score:5, Informative)
Please use "example.com" when you need an example domain name. That's what it's there for. It's simple politeness.
Parent
Re:Two problems still (Score:5, Informative)
Tell them to cease and desist or you will file harassment charges.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It would be a bad law that says that a company with which you are involved in business dealings couldn't call you because you are on the DNC list. A collection agency inherits your "business dealings" with the people you didn't pay. Or the people who had the number before you who didn't pay.
Come to think of it, does anyone know if I have any recourse (other than to just use my cell phone, which I do)?
The law says they must stop calling y
Re:Two problems still (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it isn't. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to use my property to conduct your speech. The freedom of pollsters to "speak" to me ends at the demarc, where I start paying for the wires.
It's ineffective simply because the politicians get money from fundraisers and hire pollsters to push-poll their constituents. They wrote their own exemption into the law.
They exemption they DO NOT HAVE, is if you tell them explicitely not to call you. THAT makes the next call illegal.
Parent
Telemarketers access the DNC registry?? (Score:3, Funny)
I thought the goal of the registry was to exclude marketers from getting this info? So who gve the glowing reviews?
Re:Telemarketers access the DNC registry?? (Score:5, Funny)
If you don't have access to the list, how are you supposed to know who not to call?
Parent
Re:Telemarketers access the DNC registry?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I work for a data warehousing company. Any accounts that we have that still use direct telemarketing campaigns are required to buy the list. It's not that expensive, and it is very nice, honestly. These people took the time to say they won't be buying things from telemarketers, so we know we don't want to market towards these people.
Parent
Check up on your state laws (Score:4, Informative)
For fellow New Yorkers, here [state.ny.us] is the official NYS law regarding "Do Not Call".
Still too many loopholes (Score:5, Insightful)
Overall, things have improved a great deal. My telemarketing calls have probably dropped by about 75% since this law was introduced. But I still get WAY more than I should be getting (which should be none). Until they close these loopholes, a landline is still a bit of a pain in the ass.
Fortunately, both groups use computer autodialers which let me spot them very easily. If there is even the slightest pause after I say "Hello?" I know it's a telemarker (a normal person will respond immediately, an autodialer takes a little time to connect you with a live salesman). I've also found it helpful to always give my voicemail number at work as my "phone number" with any new company I do business with (telemarketers never leave messages).
I have a cousin who actually LOVES to get telemarketing calls, though. He has found all kinds of creative ways to screw with them. He will try to keep them on the line as long as possible, encouraging them with lots of questions and feigned interest, only to tell them "No" at the end (time is money for telemarketers). He will ask them "Hey could you hang on just a minute?" then put the phone down and go watch TV. My personal favorite is when he responds to them with "EXCUSE ME, but I'm trying to masturbate here!"
Re:Still too many loopholes (Score:5, Interesting)
You missed a loophole - My personal bane. I get calls regularly with a recorded message asking me if I'd like to save money on my credit card bills - Caller ID blocked & no identification on the line. The only options are to press '1' to indicate interest or hang up. I've pressed '1' twice. The first time, I asked repeatedly who I was talking to. At first, he told me that "I work for Mastercard and Visa". I pressed on because that's obviously BS. He eventually told me that he "worked for 250 different banks". When I asked who actually signed his checks, he hung up on me. The second time I clicked through, I pretended to have significant credit card debt that I wanted to finance but acted skeptical because of the Caller ID block and eventually got to a supervisor. After the "Visa and Mastercard" and "250 different banks" responses, he told me that he worked for American General Finance.
Here's the rub, though. If they'd have called me, it would obviously be illegal. And whoever did call me was violating the Do Not Call rules. But by the time I got through to American General Finance, I had (by pressing '1') expressed an interest in doing business with them and they were kind enough to hang up on me when I made it clear that that was not the case. They won't tell me who they're contracting with making the illegal calls and frankly, I don't know how to find out.
Very frustrating.
Parent
Get a decent VoIP phone service, and a new number (Score:4, Informative)
I recently switched to VoIP here, and deliberately did /not/ transfer my old phone number. The VoIP provider has an (optional) service that sends anon CID calls to an answerer that asks them to dial a random set of numbers to prove they are human. If they don't, they don't get thru.
Of course, as about all VoIP providers, they bundle CID (along with all sorts of other fancy stuff the former monopolists charge extra for) at no additional charge. When I upgraded to VoIP I took the opportunity to upgrade my home system as well, and got a "Speaking CallerID" setup. It's GREAT!! Where previously I had found CID almost useless and had therefore canceled it as it cost more, choosing instead to let everything go to answerer and I'd only answer it if I recognized the caller, now I get the announcement of who it is. Some still come up "Cell Phone ", but once I put them in the phone book it announces that name instead. After a few weeks, I was able to ignore anything generic as everyone I wanted to take calls from was already in its phone book and thus no longer generic.
I've had the system for about a year now, and in that time, have only gotten three apparent phone-spammer calls. Those three were using automated dialers and faked CIDs, aaaa, bbbb and jjjj or some such (BTW, it can be rather "interesting" to hear the phone's interpretation of say, initials), to bypass the random number dial intelligence test. As I also have a phone-zapper (what was originally advertised for $50 I picked up at the dollar store), set to play the "disconnected tri-tone" error on answer (I tell anyone I /want/ to call to expect it), all I did was pickup and at the tone the other end immediately hung up -- it was a bot, as I said. That was a couple months ago so it was 10 months with ZERO phone-spammers, the three in quick succession, and another couple months without. Thus, the speaking CID hasn't been nearly as useful as I expected it to be, but it has still been worth it, as I don't even have to look to know who's calling, now.
Since VoIP is actually competitive, prices only run about $20/mo (e911 and regulatory fees included, a bit more than that, $25-30, if paid month to month, a bit less, $15-20, if prepaid a year at a time, again including all the "extra" fees) including full US long distance coverage and all the other stuff the former monopolists want to charge an arm and a leg for, caller-id, three-way-calling, call-waiting, voice mail, etc. In fact, due to the competition, most providers add either even fancier features -- scheduled do-not-disturb, automated-wakeup-calls, the random-number-human-test thing I mentioned for no-CID calls above -- or limited international calling, sometimes including not only Canada but much of Western Europe in the same unlimited calling $20-ish/mo fee.
Sure I have the occasional echo or dropout, but unlike the former monopolists or the cableco's phone offering, these guys actually know how to treat a customer, and because one can now shop nationwide or even worldwide for providers, they don't forget it either, or their customers today simply end up someone else's customers tomorrow! There's no way I'd go back!
(FWIW, unlike Internet, I consider phone service including 911 service a luxury, and I keep e911 service altho it's not quite as direct now, so dropping the wired provider wasn't a problem. I've never had a cellphone as I've simply never been able to cost-justify the additional cost given my usage. Some may prefer keeping minimal measured-call service or the like, if they are uncomfortable losing the security of conventional 911 service.)
I'm not going to say who my provider is as this isn't about selling them. There's several providers out there with similar offerings. Just do your research. FWIW, I started with the commercial VoIP provider listing at Wikipedia tho I ended up with someone not listed there. If you REALLY want to know who it is, post a request and I'll say, but you really SHOULD do at least some o
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I have a cousin who actually LOVES to get telemarketing calls, though. He has found all kinds of creative ways to screw with them. He will try to keep them on the line as long as possible, encouraging them with lots of questions and feigned interest, only to tell them "No" at the end (time is money for telemarketers). He will ask them "Hey could you hang on just a minute?" then put the phone down and go watch TV. My personal favorite is when he responds to them with "EXCUSE ME, but I'm trying to masturbate here!"
And all over the world, poor schmucks who are paying their way through graduate school by working as telemarketers get great stories to tell their buddies at the pub.
He's doing them a service!
Just a 70% approval rating? (Score:4, Interesting)
Who are the 30% of people who don't approve of the Do Not Call list? The telemarketing industry is not that big. I don't think 30% of people are adamant enough to say that all telemarketing should be illegal, therefore they disapprove Do Not Call list: These people would probably be happy that there's something helping out. One statistic in the article showed that only 18% of respondents who placed themselves on the Do Not Call list now receive zero telemarketing calls, so maybe people don't feel the list is effective enough. But only 9% of respondents claimed no reduction in calls; 91% said the Do Not Call list reduced telemarketing calls. Yet these people still don't approve? I don't get it.
Re:Just a 70% approval rating? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe they just think it needs to be better.
Parent
Another reason to disapprove... (Score:3, Insightful)
Another reason people might disapprove is that the Do Not Call list preempted state laws that let the person called sue for a nontrivial chunk of change. The federal law only allows the fed to fine and sue. Then the fed gets the money and the callee only gets more aggravation.
Sorry but the DNC list is bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)
Tele marketers can choose to ignore the DNC list.
Re:Sorry but the DNC list is bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
My gf worked for a telemarketer for 1 week before she quit out of frustration. They used a computer system that had thousands of scripted responses for any reason imaginable a person would use to reject an offer. The phone numbers were automatically dialed by the computer and when a number popped up that was on the DNC list you got a warning message on your screen. Of course everyone was told to ignore the message and make the call anyways. We later reported them to the police. Tele marketers can choose to ignore the DNC list.
And I can choose to ignore stop signs, drug laws, et cetera. It doesn't make the law/list BS (which it may or may not be). The question is how effective is the policing of it--there are no cops waiting by your phone, so the onus is on you to report any violations.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Simple solution to telemarketers (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Simple solution to telemarketers (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
I call it a win (albeit imperfect) (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Cost onus is on the callers (i.e. I don't have to pay some fee to put my name on the list--the telemarketers have to pay to get it or risk breaking the law).
2. I have no idea what the costs associated with running the lists are, but 21M for 1 year in fees sounds pretty good. A government program that doesn't waste a lot of money--hallelujah.
3. It has the desired effect. 91% with decreased unwanted calls.
Shameful (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pay for access to the list? (Score:5, Informative)
Nope, that's exactly how it works. The trick is that if they call people on the list, they get fined, so it's cheaper to buy access to the list.
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Re:Pay for access to the list? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Don't get me wrong... (Score:5, Informative)
You have the right to say what you want. You don't have the guarantee of an audience.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Wait... Are you trying to say that 911 is a vehicle of free speech? If the 911 operator didn't answer it would be a violation of my rights? That having a 911 operator proves that I have a right to an audience?
I don't get it. Was that a joke somehow?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
911 failing to answer is an undesirable situation, not an infringement of rights.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You have freedom of speech, not freedom to bother me. "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".
Your freedom of speech does not extend to standing on the sidewalk outside my residence with a bullhorn. My right to ignore you supercedes your right to speak.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually the seemed to have worked out a good balance. A lot of people are crabbing about the exceptions but those exceptions are for the protection of political and religious speech.
Commercial speech has less protections which is why cigarette companies can not advertise on TV and such.
Re:Don't get me wrong... (Score:4, Insightful)
What, your first amendment right to call me in the middle of dinner to try to sell me a carpet cleaning service? Or to have a robo-dialer which will leave me answering a phone with nobody on the other end?
Individuals have first amendment rights. I've never bought the argument that companies have the same thing. I fail to see why we should protect the ability of companies to make unsolicited calls to people who don't want them. Are you saying spam should be protected speech too?
Besides, if you are going to do this kind of call, wouldn't it be better to get a list of the people who you know aren't interested rather than hearing me tell you to "fuck off" for the 3rd time this week?
I realize the poor schmuck on the other end of the phone is just doing a job -- but, I don't give a crap and I don't owe him any politeness. If you show up on my doorstep and aggressively won't leave or keep coming back when I tell you to, I'm gonna knock your ass down. If you call me, I'm going tell you exactly once nicely -- there after, you're not getting nice. (And, believe me, I've been called 20 times in two weeks by the same organization. There's no point in politely explaining after the 1st time.)
Cheers
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
These crap calls are a natural result of the DNC. They spoof the caller id and they never tell you what company they are calling from until after you "press 1" and thus accept the call.
I've had these people two or three times a day leaving messages on my answering machine at home. It varies between "you've won a wonderful vacation, press 1 to collect or 9 to be removed from the list" and "this is your final notification about your credit account, press