Slashdot Log In
Software Spots Spin In Political Speeches
Posted by
samzenpus
on Thu Sep 18, 2008 06:57 AM
from the liars-and-filthy-liars dept.
from the liars-and-filthy-liars dept.
T.S. Ackerman writes "According to an article in NewScientist Tech, there is now software that can identify the amount of spin in a politician or candidate's speech. From the article, 'Blink and you would have missed it. The expression of disgust on former US president Bill Clinton's face during his speech to the Democratic National Convention as he says "Obama" lasts for just a fraction of a second. But to Paul Ekman it was glaringly obvious. "Given that he probably feels jilted that his wife Hillary didn't get the nomination, I would have to say that the entire speech was actually given very gracefully," says Ekman, who has studied people's facial expressions and how they relate to what they are thinking for over 40 years.' The article goes on to analyze the amount of spin in each of the candidates running for president, and the results are that Obama spins the most."
Related Stories
Submission: Software Spots Spin in Political Speeches by Anonymous Coward
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Subject (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps I missed it, so could someone kindly point out where the New "Scientist" article quantified "spin"? Thanks in advance.
Re:Subject (Score:4, Insightful)
It's defined in the customary way -- As anything which runs contrary to the listener's political views, or is said by someone whom they personally dislike.
The way the article describes it, this is just an algorithm which counts how closely the speaker's diction and delivery match those used by McCain and assigns a value for the McCaininess of the speech. Calling it "spin" is, well, an interesting spin.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
IF we were going only off facial expressions, John McCain's Smile in the middle of speeches means he's Spinning faster than a proton in the Hadron Collider.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Know how to tell if a politician is lying?
He has his mouth open....
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Actually I think this has all been solved with the definitive answer many years ago...
Know how to tell if a politician is lying?
He has his mouth open....
That's not true at all. There is nothing more true to the soul of a politician than an act that requires an open mouth.
Of course, when the corporate overlord zips up and our beloved senator wipes his mouth, it's back to business as usual.
Re:Subject (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Subject (Score:5, Interesting)
The algorithm does seem to consist primarily of a bunch of intuitions that David Skillicorn has had about what textual attributes correlate with spin.
And I'll note here that Skillicorn is a computer scientist, not a cognitive scientist. If we're just talking about his intuitions, then I'm not seeing why I should trust his over anybody else's.
He seems to hang a lot on Obama's use of "we" instead of "I". It seems to me that heavy use of "we" is exactly how community organizers would talk. Not because they're spinning, but because they're trained to generate collective action.
And heck, that's what I like about him. After 9/11, a great national tragedy, I wanted to serve, to help, but George Bush told me to go shopping. It was a bit of a letdown. This election, I'm really excited that both McCain and Obama truly believe in public service. But I think Obama's much better at getting people to actually do it.
Parent
Re:Subject (Score:5, Insightful)
The catch with the analysis of spin is of course, cultural differences, in language usage and expressions. In addition a good speech writer and of course speech presenter are required to alter their language and presentation to suit different audiences. Language and expressions and well as the content of the message needs to be different for, blue collars workers than to a group of students and educators or a broad community group, whilst the intent might be be same, the content will vary for each group and the focus of the presentation will shift to those areas each group has greater interest in.
Now as to the interpretation of the level of spin, the baseline will be shifted to align with the professor cultural baseline, his choice of language and expressions as well as his political alignment, not necessarily consciously but it is inevitable that it will occur subconsciously.
The is only one way to detect and clear away spin, record the speech and fact check it for lies and when lies / spin is discovered publish it all over the internet. Attempting it any other way just doesn't make any real sense, especially without knowing any of the speech writers and their cultural biases.
Parent
Re:Subject (Score:5, Insightful)
That's possible. And if we're cynical, we might even say it's probable.
But it's entirely possible that a very objective criteria was used based on known psychological information. Psychologists and others are very good at learning quite a few things about people by things that most of us don't know--at least not consciously... body language, speech inflections, eye contact, handwriting, etc.
I'm not at all an expert in this field but unless you have evidence that the algorithm was truly biased and based on the way McCain talks, I think it would behoove you to consider the possibility that just maybe the algorithm picked up on something about Obama that you hadn't picked up on yourself. At least consider the possibility before smearing the article/algorithm/etc.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The algorithm counts usage of first person nouns - "I" tends to indicate less spin than "we", for example. It also searches out phrases that offer qualifications or clarifications of more general statements, since speeches that contain few such amendments tend to be high on spin. Finally, increased rates of action verbs such as "go" and "going", and negatively charged words, such as "hate" and "enemy", also indicate greater levels of spin. Skillicorn had his software tackle a
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Spin isn't lying so much as it is making something look good for you whether or not they really are. Good spin doesn't lie.
Example: Katrina was a disaster. Someone wanting to blame FEMA spins the story so FEMA is the bad guy. Someone else can tell the same story (same facts) and make the mayor of N.O. the bad guy. No one is lying so much as they are carefully ignoring certain facts and emphasizing others.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No one is lying so much as they are carefully ignoring certain facts and emphasizing others.
A definition I was once given by my high school principal (and one that I myself now tell young people) is: "A lie is the intent to deceive."
When you frame it that way...
Re:Subject (Score:4, Insightful)
Lying by omission implies that you are leaving out pertinent facts to mislead your audience. Not that you are leaving out unrelated facts.
Parent
Surely (Score:5, Insightful)
there are more important things to talk about in this race - economy, Iraq, education, health, science policy, Saturday Night Live.
Why focus on this pseudoscience?
That's Easy--They're ALWAYS Spinning (Score:5, Funny)
I could write the logic myself
if( politician.isAlive() && mouth.isOpen() )
{
isSpinning = true;
return isSpinning;
}
Spin = Good Rhetorical Argument (Score:5, Insightful)
From reading the article, it appears that by spin, they mean "adhering to the rules your old English teacher laid down for rhetorical arguments." For example, don't qualify statements, since it waters down your argument needlessly. Don't use "I"; it makes it sound like you're the only one who holds your opinion, so use "we" when needed to help draw others in.
What this doesn't seem to do is provide any insight into how much the person in question shades the truth. Telling a bald-faced lie plainly won't set it off; wrapping up the truth in an eloquent package will.
Re:Spin = Good Rhetorical Argument (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm repeating something that also happens to be in some of the comments on TFA, but: Since when does use of "we" instead of "I" indicate spin or deception? If that's your standard, the guy who thinks in terms of a movement, who sees the country as a grand collaboration, is always going to come out as dishonest. And the guy who talks about rugged individualism is going to look like a straight shooter, even if his statements on policy are self-contradicting nonsense.
How is "Yes we can!" so much worse than "I won't raise your taxes"?
Parent
Re:Spin = Good Rhetorical Argument (Score:5, Interesting)
because the "movement" won't be in office. The politician will.
"Yes we can" is a crap soundbite that sways people who listen to crap soundbites, and it also has the advantage of allowing every (potential) voter to fill in their own definition of what "we" can do, while sticking the polit. with zero accountability.
"I won't raise your taxes", or "I won't attempt to further restrict the right to bear arms" would be widely regarded as a campaign promise, and would be damaging if broken.
If you say nothing of substance, it's harder to be accused of lying.
This doesn't necessarily mean any use of "we" is bad, but your chosen examples are vastly different statements.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That's communist thinking there citizen.
Skillicorn's blog (Score:5, Informative)
http://skillicorn.wordpress.com/ [wordpress.com]
check out this entry:
http://skillicorn.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/comparing-the-democratic-and-republican-convention-spin/ [wordpress.com]
As usual, high spin is indicated by the red end of the line. Here are the spin scores for all of the speeches analyzed (positive numbers are high spin):
1. Bush 0.40
2. Thompson 1.71
3. Lieberman -0.73
4. Romney 4.36
5. Huckabee -1.8
6. Giuliani 2.97
7. Palin -0.62
8. McCain -7.38
9. M. Obama -1.24
10. Hillary Clinton 2.43
11. Bill Clinton 0.99
12. Biden -1.35
13. Obama 0.31
seems like a bit of discrepancy with what's reported in the article.
Parent
Obama spinning? (Score:5, Interesting)
Even though I'm a Republican, I have to concede that Obama is one of the most gifted speakers to come along for quite some time. He's an absolutely magnetic speaker and a great advocate for that which he believes, and when I watch him, I almost have to smack myself to snap out of it. I can't stand the guy's politics, but I am proud that he's an American.
Alan Keyes (Score:4, Insightful)
At the other end of the political spectrum, I think Alan Keyes is at least in the same league at Obama as a gifted speaker.
Parent
Re:Obama spinning? (Score:5, Funny)
and when I watch him, I almost have to smack myself to snap out of it
I think this says more about you than Obama.
Parent
Re:Obama spinning? (Score:5, Insightful)
You do realize how many neocon types just had their heads implode due to your statement there right? I mean, I generally consider myself conservative (in the old sense, when it mean fiscal and political conservative and social liberal because a real conservative doesn't want the government mucking in the personal affairs of people.). I most certainly do not consider myself a Republican. The modern Republicans have fucked our nation up possibly beyond repair with their rhetoric and god aweful policy. They have the balls to claim Democrats will spend more when they currently hold the record for spending!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's see, McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts
You mean the tax cuts he now wants to make permanent [realclearpolitics.com]?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Gutting" the military? During the Clinton years we still spent far and away more on "defense" than any other nation; the "defense" budget remained bloated. During the Clinton years, American military spending made up a larger percentage of the world's total military spending than it did in the Regan years [truthandpolitics.org].
Had we really trimmed it, we would probably have reduced the number of troops overseas. Including those in the Middle East. Like in Saudi Arabia. Y
Re:Obama spinning? (Score:4, Interesting)
What policies do you disagree with?
- NOT firing our best Arab linguists when we're at war in the Middle East?
- Providing mandatory healthcare to children?
- Making healthcare affordable but optional for adults?
- Reforming the tax code so it doesn't take a graduate degree to know how much your bill should be?
- Investing in science and research so China doesn't kick our asses so handily in the next decade as they have in the past decade?
- Increasing funding for charter schools so that even poor people can have school choice?
- Moving race-based affirmative action toward a more socioeconomic-based affirmative action, so that his daughters are judged more fairly compared to a rural white boy with an underfunded school?
- Ending an immoral war by setting concrete timelines, but recognizing that they may have to be modified depending on the conditions on the ground?
- Reducing the incidence and unfairness of the death penalty, while understanding that certain heinous crimes deserve the full outrage of the nation?
- Better sex education, so that there are fewer unexpected pregnancies, and so that when there are unexpected pregnancies, the women know there are options BESIDES abortion?
Exactly what policy do you object to?
I can't think of a single reason to support McCain's platform unless a) you make over $250,000/year; AND b) you're of the mind that you should keep all of it, no matter the cost to your community and country.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, since I want to reduce the role of government (especially the federal government) I would say that I'm opposed to most of the points you've listed.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Most of the items in his list would not increase government. You sound like you just blindly used a a Republican talking point to discount someone.
(I am a registered Republican, and it annoys me to hear people use this line meaninglessly)
Specifically, one of the items in that list would reduce the government more than any of the others would add, if combined. Hint, it involves another country...
Re:Obama spinning? (Score:4, Interesting)
Then you're just, quite simply, un-American. It is the purpose of the Federal government to "promote the general welfare." It is our duty as citizens to protect each other from outside threats, and our duty as humans not to let the poor among us die in the streets.
The Republican party likes to talk about the Bible and responsibility. What happened to "love thy neighbor," and how is monetary greed anything but the shirking of responsibility?
There's only one man in the Bible to complain about the expectation that he was his brother's keeper. He seems like a pretty good metaphor for the Republican Party.
Parent
Re:Obama spinning? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is the purpose of the Federal government to "promote the general welfare."
Yes, in specific ways, all of which are enumerated in the Constitution. Many of the items on the GGP's list are not Constitutional.
The following are internal government affairs or enumerated powers, and perfectly Constitutional:
The following are not within the purview of the federal government:
The last point, "reducing the incidence and unfairness of the death penalty," is too broadly worded to properly categorize. For the most part specific criminal penalties, including the death penalty, fall under state jurisdiction.
It is our duty as citizens to protect each other from outside threats, and our duty as humans not to let the poor among us die in the streets.
I have no problem with that, but what does it have to do with the federal government? It seems to me that, rather than defining and carrying out your own duty, you only wish to coerce others into performing what you unilaterally declare to be their duty toward you, or in support of your goals. Government is not a legitimate tool with which to enforce your personal views onto others--no matter how popular those views might be.
There's only one man in the Bible to complain about the expectation that he was his brother's keeper.
Yes, but Cain's sins were jealousy and murder, not indifference. There is nothing to suggest that Cain was ever expected to act as his brother's keeper; his non sequitur response was merely a futile attempt to avoid the question.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Even if I personally don't make over 250K/year, my employer does, and that means that I will be paying these higher taxes too.
Either I will need to do the work of people that they cannot afford to hire, or they will not be able to give me the wage that they otherwise could.
Think about it, how many companies that provide reasonable jobs can exist with revenue of less than 250K?
Also, can you name a single company (that is not in the process of going out of business) on any of the major stock exchanges that ma
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I've seen a few instances where he's been caught off guard, and had to actually think. Whole lotta umming and uhhing going on there.
Here's a question for you: which is better, a candidate who thinks about what he says before speaking, or one who can answer every question immediately?
Think about that one for a moment.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If he's actually thinking, then great. Unfortunately it's a lot more likely that he's trying to come up with a way to straddle the fence.
Somebody who is well versed in all arguments against a position can produce a counter-argument instantly. That doesn't make him right or wrong, but it doesn't make him worse than the guy who has to invent a position in an instant.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Self-identification is meaningless in this election. You've got swathes of people trolling the internet, pretending to be Republicans for Obama, Hillarycrats for Palin, aliens for Kucinich, etc. Everyone jumped into the same slimy, lying cesspool this time, so just ignore the (R) and (D) next to people's names and identify them by their policy stances.
I would be happy to do that. Thanks for the tip.
Ummm... Uhhh... errr... Can you point me to one example of where Obama has ever taken a stand on.... well... anything?
(His own greatness doesn't count.)
He's spent his life straddling fences and refusing to take a stand. Then he wrote TWO memoirs by the time he was 47... about stuff that happened to him and lied a lot in those.
What has he ever done besides lie for a living? Seriously. NOBODY has ever addressed this question.
Near as I can tell, the pinna
Godwin's Law (Score:3, Informative)
How about:
I'd add Martin Luther King, but I guess from your post that you probably think he was a one sided evil despot too. Believe me, if you think Barack Obama is one-sided, your knowledge of politics and history is zero. By European standards, he is a moderate right-winger.
A bit strange. (Score:3, Insightful)
Am I the only one that finds it a bit strange that the Presidential Candidates are on the opposing ends of that
"spin" graph? [newscientist.com]
It kinda gives a bit pseudoscience with political motivations feel to it.
I feel horrible (Score:3, Funny)
I'm all about change, yo, that's why I'm gonna win,
It ain't nothin' to do with no political speee-in!
*Scritch-scratch, scritch-scritch-scritch-scra-scatch scritchity-scratch, scritchity-scratch, scritchity-scratch, scritch-scritch, scritch-scra-atch*
Yes, I'm most likely voting Democrat.
Obama doesn;t realyl say much (Score:3, Funny)
It makes him very popular. It's all vaguely positive. There's very little for anyone to actually disagree with.
Psychology is not an exact science (Score:5, Insightful)
Therefor saying that he expressed digust over Obama is pushing it a bit. Even if that was what his facial expression meant there could have been many other things on his (or anyone else in that situation) mind. Perhaps he just had wind, who knows. MOst of these "I know what someone is thinking from fleeting facial expression" types are just modern day snake oil sellers.
Re:Psychology is not an exact science (Score:5, Interesting)
You should read up on Ekman. The guy is one of the top authorities on the subject. He has written a few books. Read one or two and check what his claims really are and how much substance and research he can put behind them.
In short: He doesn't claim he can read thoughts, he claims that emotions show up on your face. He also claims to have identified a short list of universal (world-wide, culture-independent) expressions that belong to specific emotions. He's travelled pretty much everywhere on the globe, from western society to primitive jungle tribes and made many thousands of photographs showing those expressions. And yes, the books describe in detail how the emotions were roused so they could be reasonably sure they got the proper one.
Like all mainstream media, the article simplifies things quite a lot. That doesn't mean the science behind it isn't correct.
Parent
Next breakthrough... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Software spots water in ocean!"
I mean, COME ON...couldn't they have tried for detecting something that at least just might be absent in the content they're testing? How about spin in the news, for example? Oh, wait...uh...
Please Sheeple (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone actually believe this to be anything other than poor science or even worse election year propaganda masking as science?
There may be some objective simple definition of "spin" that you could use to create a automated measuring system, but is this really spin?
Human language is virtually infinitely complex, and there are layers of meaning both conscious and unconscious expressed by body language, tone, cadence, content, etc. Then there's the intention of the speaker, and the context of the speech. But no, we get a elementary school level simple bar chart [newscientist.com] that clearly shows that obama is a complete spinster, and McCain is a "straight talker". Excuse me, but what a load of horse shit! Disclaimer: I'm not voting for Obama or McCain.
LS
Badarticle (Score:5, Insightful)
I initially thought that the Obama-smear was just a poorly written summary (and was going to tag "badsummary") but the actual article itself is slanted. I propose we start tagging these kinds of things "badarticle", since they seem to be cropping up more and more on Slashdot.
Anyway.
There are so many things that bug me about this "article", let's just go through it together.
First off, associating disgust with Obama. Paul Ekman says he saw it on Clinton's face. Did any of the other millions of people watching see it?
Got it, spin = lying. OK. That's the definition we'll be using as we read.
Again, spin = lying. I'm with you so far.
I... what? "I" vs "we"? What does that have to do with lying? I thought spin = lying, since that's stated twice at the beginning of the article. Suddenly spin = rhetoric. [wikipedia.org]
First, spin = lying, and then spin = rhetoric, but we don't call it that, and then Obama's speeches have the most spin. Which by the new definition means that he is the most effective speaker, but by the original definition means that he is the biggest liar.
McCain is the purported to have the least spin, implying that he is the most truthful (except by their definition of spin, it really means he is the least effective speaker). Hands up, who thinks McCain is the most truthful candidate?
And hey, let's talk about Jeremiah Wright some more, because it's not like that story is history or anything. But hey, any chance there is to remind people that he's associated with Obama...
Ah! Now they even call it rhetoric! Perhaps hoping that the intended audience doesn't know the meaning of the word? (Many people mistakenly think the word rhetoric has negative connotations.)
Seriously, did anyone else besides Ekman see it? Did this facial slip actually exist? Where's the screencap?
This entire article is ridiculous. Decrying "spin", they use it themselves as an anti-Obama device. Absurd.
Buy It (Score:3, Funny)
To summarize TFA:
I have a magical truth detector that can determine if a statement is true by the way a person looks when he says it. With my marvelous machine, you will no longer need to check facts. Instead, you can simply believe whomever my machine tells you to believe.
QED.
I wonder if the software can.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Voting record, more than written and declared policies should be the litmus test voters should use.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I am shocked.
Yes, *yawn* I am too. Who would have guessed the candidate with no experience and a carefully-prepared thoughtful thousand yard stare would use more spin than a self-described straight shooter?
Re:So what's new (Score:4, Informative)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080913/pl_politico/13412 [yahoo.com]
Oh... wait... he found it wasn't working so now he's a cut-throat asshole just like the rest of them who will lie at the drop of a hat?
Of course you'll read this and say "Well he's keeping things even" and frankly I don't give a damn anymore, I'm tired of it all and no one changes anyone elses opinion, vote for whoever you want... just don't get your facts backwards
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Gladwell is the Barack Obama of the writing world.
That IS a bad analogy.