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Keeping Older Drivers Behind the Wheel
Posted by
timothy
on Sat Sep 20, 2008 05:50 PM
from the my-dad-should-just-not-drive-ever dept.
from the my-dad-should-just-not-drive-ever dept.
Hugh Pickens writes "A new study shows the key role technology can play in extending the age at which people can drive safely and highlights the important psychological role that driving plays in older people's lives in contributing to feelings of independence and freedom and maintaining their quality of life. The study identified ideas for in-car information systems to help compensate for the reduction in reaction time that affects many older drivers. Specific recommendations included a head-up display on the windshield that displays road sign information based on GPS position so the driver doesn't have to keep watching the road side for information and a system to provide the driver with audible feedback on their current speed so the driver doesn't have to look at the dashboard so often. 'Our research highlights issues that have been overlooked by car designers and those advising older people on lifestyles,' says Dr Charles Musselwhite, who led the study. 'The current emphasis on developing technologies which take over part of the driving task may actually end up deterring older drivers. By contrast, better in-car information systems could help them drive safely and ensure they want to keep driving.'"
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Please no! (Score:5, Interesting)
You kow, I just don't see how this will help much with people who have severely reduced reaction times/cognitive abilities in dealing with traffic.
My mom uses the sweet public transit deals that exist exclusively for seniors. We need to have those everywhere, they work great. They pick her up right at her door with a handicapped-style van with a lift, and she goes wherever she wants. Her church, her local senior center, and her medical clinic all have similar setups which she also uses. There's even a similar deal that takes her the whole 300 miles to Atlantic City when she's in the mood. Costs her way less than keeping a car, and it's a lot safer for her, as well as for the rest of us. I think it's a far better solution than encouraging her to drive, which she really cannot competently do. Until real available cars can reliably drive themselves , I say please, keep the seniors off the roads for everyone's safety. Besides, we seriously need to reduce the number of drivers on the road, not find new ways to let everyone drive!
All this just strikes me as something sponsored by the auto industry in the hopes of opening "new" markets.
Re:Please no! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Please no! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Please no! (Score:4, Funny)
Give him a break, maybe Senator McCain is busy texting someone on his BlackBerry.
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Re:Please no! (Score:5, Funny)
Or, more likely, sending somebody a telegram with one of those black clicky Morse code things.
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Re:Please no! (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Please no! (Score:4, Informative)
That, sadly will happen to all of you... I mean us... ;-)
But it will also happen to eyesight, reaction time, ability to accurately gauge/apply brake and/or throttle pressure, etc.
Warning systems are not adequate to address these issue. I, for one, when I get to that point, will simply sell my car and turn in my license for a State Issued ID. Sounds unbelievable, I know... but my grandmother did something much similar one day with no one prompting her to - and she still drove better than many younger drivers out there... just not good enough by her own judgement I guess.
Having a brother who is an EMT, and me having regularly driven everything from motorcyles to small trucks to construction equipment to starships [startreknewvoyages.com], I've gained more than sufficient respect for what damage I can do behind the wheel if I dont take such steps as I get older.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And to others who have claimed teens have more fatal accidents, I guess it depends on who's study, and what age groups...
Carnegie Mellon University's Center for the Study and Improvement of Regulation shows that drivers older than 85 have 11.47 fatalities per 100 million miles driven, compared with 3.3 fatalities in the 16-to-20 age group.
Let's not forget that people over 85 are a bit more fragile than a 16-to-20 year old, easily survivable injures to a young person can be fatal to an older one. Also someone who started driving before seatbelts were invented may be less likely to use them (more likely to be injured/killed in an accident) than a younger driver who has had safety restraints as part of their on road experience from day one of life.
Random statistics never give the whole picture.
Thunder! (Score:3, Interesting)
Given that some car radios automatically increase in volume when the engines revving, why can't they have a clicker that automatically adapts to the sound level? And that gets really obvious when it's been on for more than 10 seconds?
I gotta patent these ideas, I really do.
Re:Please no! (Score:5, Interesting)
"The driver would therefore not have to keep scouring the road side for information."
Ugh. When I learned to drive, the booklet specifically said you're supposed to have an idea of what's all around your car that's at most 5 or 6 seconds old -- that means right & left shoulder checks to monitor the blind spots, etc.
Scouring the road side is part of safe driving -- for this system to be as safe as that, you'd need to affix GPS transponders to ever kid, deer, dog, soccer ball, and car so that warnings about hazards moving in from the side could also be displayed on the HUD. There would be so much information in the same visual space that it'd be a complete jumble.
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Re:Please no! (Score:5, Funny)
I thought the reason old people drove such big cars is so they could drive in a straight line indefinitely without having to be bothered by such minor inconveniences as road debris, stop signs, small dogs, children, etc.
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Re:Please no! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Scouring the road side is part of safe driving
Yes, but not all roadside information is relevant to your safety... If you do any driving in unfamiliar, cluttered city areas (especially at night), looking for road signs and addresses can be extremely distracting.
Granted, people have routines; Most seniors will probably travel in familiar territory most of the time... but for those times when older people (hell, anyone) are looking for a street with a tiny sign in the opposing lane or looking for a friend's house in the dark for the first time, cues from
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I say please, keep the seniors off the roads for everyone's safety. Besides, we seriously need to reduce the number of drivers on the road, not find new ways to let everyone drive!
Statistically the seniors are better than young teenage drivers, so should we extend the driving deals to kids?
Honestly enough, my dream would be for an automated travel system that addresses 90-99% of everybody's needs. If they have special handicaps or limited mobility, live in a condo with a station in the condo.
Get away from
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Only the ones who survive. I've suggested to my employers that we rename a section in one our cemeteries "My Space".
Re:Please no! (Score:5, Insightful)
Reaction time isn't the only factor that can make you a good driver or not. It isn't even the most important factor.
If it was then we would be letting kids 8 years old to drive cars. As their reaction time is better then even someone in their 20s or 30s. But it more then that a good driver has the ability to use the information of the surrounding and keep the car in a situation were you don't need a fast reaction time to adjust to the situation. It is about seeing that guy in the intersection and knowing to slow down as he will illegally turn without looking, or zooming past the stop sign keeping a 3 second distance between you and the driver ahead of you so if he stops quickly you have a lot of time to analyze the situation and react with a lot of time not split second. Seeing the guy behind you is pissed off because you are driving safely but it seems to cautious for him and will pass you, rather angrily. You need the emotional stability that comes with age to not get pissed off and try to get even with him. There are a lot of skills that older driver bring to the road too. Giving them tools to help balance what is loss with age will only help make things better. I don't think this technology is for the 90 year old woman. But for the 60 year old person who is starting to feel his age.
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Re:Please no! (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think this technology is for the 90 year old woman. But for the 60 year old person who is starting to feel his age.
There are 90 year olds who can drive just fine. And there are others who are vegetables. The differences in abilities amongst the elderly can be huge. What makes sense beyond a certain age is annual tests. Grandpa passes, he can continue to drive, otherwise not. Actually assessing the ability of the individual makes a more sense than arbitrary rules. And if you need GPS to know a stop sign is coming, you shouldn't be driving. Unless kids, animals, and idiot pedestrians are chipped and show up on the display as well.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Y'know, I just don't understand that one. I have a rather long commute, and on a typical morning, I have to pass at least a few people going painfully slow. I don't do so "rather angrily", I don't do so aggressively, I simply do it to get in front of them. I wait for a good clear spot with a legal passing zone, and get past them as quickly as possible and back into the proper lane.
Yet many people
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Some highway onramps are short and some cars take a while to get to 60 or really 75 here in CA. Obviously no one should be in the left lane going slower than traffic, but if you're in the right lane you need to yield to the ramp. It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
Google and other can't even get address 100% much (Score:3, Interesting)
Google and other can't even get address 100% much less road sign done to the point of where it will need to be and How big of a disk will you need to just fit each road in big city area?
Re: (Score:2)
In fact, I think my neighbor's car has a display on the windshield for the speed she's going. And the car is at least from the mid to early 90s. I don't know if it reads the speed limit, though.
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It's not that simple and you may need more then one.
Only Thing Needed... (Score:2, Funny)
Reduction in reaction time? (Score:2, Interesting)
I must say that I sincerely doubt that older drivers have any reduction in reaction time.
Re:Reduction in reaction time? (Score:4, Funny)
That had nothing to do with her age and everything to do with her ability (or lack of it) to drive. This afternoon, I was in a parking lot when a lady started to back out in front of me, then stopped for me. I waved her on saying, "You're burning gas; I'm not." She continued, after thanking me, and said, "Backing up is scary." I'm sure it was, and not just for her, because at no time did she ever turn her head to see where she was going. At a guess, she was in her mid-30s.
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...reduction in reaction time... (Score:2)
> The study identified ideas for in-car information systems to help compensate
> for the reduction in reaction time that affects many older drivers.
We get faster with age? That's great! But why would we want to compensate for it? So as not to have an unfair advantage over younger drivers? Too late. We already have that.
We Need Self-Driving Vehicles (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the National Center for Statistics and Analysis [dot.gov], in 2005, over 43,000 people were killed in traffic accidents in the U.S. alone. I don't know what the number is for the entire world but it must be in the six digits. Most of them are not caused by older drivers. Traffic fatalities and injuries are a much bigger threat to the nation than terrorism. All the money being spent on terrorism should be thrown into developping a 100% automated transit system. And no, we don't need AI to do it.
Re:We Need Self-Driving Vehicles (Score:4, Insightful)
Ummm... the "statistics" (I presume you are talking about the quote from People Magazine on the left?) say nothing of the sort.
They say:
For every age group, the fatality rate per 100,000 population was lower for females than for males. The injury rate based on population was higher for females than for males in every age group, except for people under 5 years old and people over 65 years old.
Which says absolutely nothing useful. Here is just one reason why... it does not (nor do the actual statistics) indicate anything about the person who caused the accident.
Inotherwords, how old was the driver at fault? Any other age related data is pretty irrelevant to the statement you are trying to make - and sadly, that information is lacking.
I can see the mistake being an easy one... the Peope Mag quote is confusing at best, retarded at worst.
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in solviet russia, let the car drive you (Score:3, Funny)
I work with the elderly... (Score:5, Insightful)
Open source them, dummit! (Score:5, Funny)
Without any doubt, OSS community will fix all these drivers in no time.
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Forget granny (Score:2, Funny)
Older drivers the hell? (Score:4, Interesting)
Nearly every close call I've had in the last 8 years was cell phone related. How about we tell those damn kids (who are still on my lawn by the way) to stop texting, reading, watching movies, and fiddling around with their GPS while driving to frakin' stop that stupid crap.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That is anecdotal... just like the below.
Every accident I've been involved in over the past 10 years involved a driver over 70 years old. One passed a turning vehicle to hit another turning vehicle without even slowing. The other decided that making a right hand turn into an oncoming vehicle was a good idea. And we're not talking cutting someone off here... we're talking about broadsiding them.
The only ones who know just how safe elderly drivers are as a whole is probably the insurance agencies.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
over 65 per mile accident rates start to increase
after 75-85 per mile accident rates are equivalent to teenagers
over 85 is the worst group on the road today per mile.
But insurance rates don't reflect these per mile rates because elderly drivers generally use good judgment - not driving at night, sticking to local roads, driving less, etc.
Many states have tried programs like vision tests, road tests, and so on. None of these programs has had great success in sorting out who is fit to drive and who is not. Ho
No no no. (Score:5, Funny)
Always upgrade to the newest stable drivers. Have we learned nothing?
Re:No no no. (Score:5, Funny)
don't go with the 1.6 version though it's known to crash more often. Risk analysis has shown that 2.5 version seems to be much better judging by the insurance costs. Version 6.5+ varies in quality depending on the install and how well it has been maintained.
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Missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
Anything that makes it safer for older drivers to keep driving will make it safer for all drivers to keep driving. An 18 year old shouldn't be looking at the dashboard or road signe any more than necessary. In fact, there isn't a single argument that isn't equally valid for drunk drivers as it is for older drivers. The point isn't to make it easier for drivers who have lost the ability to drive safely to keep driving. The point is to assess all drivers, of all ages and walks of life, on an ongoing basis, based on current technogy, to make certain they still have the physical and mental skills necessary to meet the current requirements for a license. This is just a dodge to A) make money, and B) court the AARP vote.
Fewer signs, more thought (Score:2, Informative)
The Atlantic recently had a very good article [theatlantic.com] comparing the philosophies of road design in North America versus in Europe.
In brief: lots of road signs (1) micromanage drivers, (2) make drivers complacent to an individual sign's importance, (3) cause drivers to pay more attention to the side of the road in search of signs and less attention on actual road conditions, and (4) condition drivers to not think for themselves (e.g. driver slower than the limit in poor visibility or in rain).
The suggestions mention
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Wrong Goals (Score:5, Insightful)
Nightmare (Score:3, Insightful)
If anything, reaction will be slower. I can now imagine what would happen if my parents would have a head ups display.
* Well, officer, there suddenly were these letters in front of me and while I was changing my driving glasses for my reading glasses, I hit the car in front of me. And I was just on my way to my grand-son. Little houghi is now engaged, you know. Lovely girl it is. They will get married next summer in ...
At a certain age EVERYTHING becomes a distraction. My parents can't even drive with the radio on anymore. If I tell them to go left or right, I need to tell that WAY in advance and need to repeat it three times.
I would not dare to give them a GPS, let alone ask them to handle one.
MORE mass transportation (Score:5, Insightful)
in america, people suffer 1-1.5 hours of traffic to go to their jobs downtown.
the solution is simple. more, quality mass transportation. this way you can assure that life quality and independence of older citizens never deteriorates, and also you can save younger citizens from wasting their life away in traffic.
This is outrageous. (Score:5, Insightful)
Cars are the number one killers, both of planet and of people, and they want to keep people driving older?
Pay attention to the tech for a change! (ahem) (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm amazed! This is Slashdot, and here I was all ready to do what I usually do: stick my oar in and say, guys! Forget the technology angle, there's an important policy issue here—we should be restricting car use to the competent, not extending it to the incompetent! And what do I find? That's what everyone is saying! Will marvels never cease?
Unfortunately, there's a show-stopping technical issue here that everyone is—quite surreally—overlooking. Use GPS to tell people about roadsigns? What if GPS mis-reports your location? What if you're in a tunnel? What if there's construction? What if, for heaven's sake, the bridge is out, and the sign and the road are not there? Building a system in which people control physical weapons (sorry, vehicles) based on information from an ungrounded virtual reality is criminally insane!
Now, putting directional transponders on road signs so they can identify themselves clearly and reproduce themselves on in-vehicle displays is such an obvious idea that I've been expecting to see it announced as reality at every car show for 35 years. It's an absolutely must-do, supervising-officials-must-be-suicidal-morons-to-miss-it (or evil geniuses up to no good to pretend to miss it) sort of thing. Of course we want that. But it has to be very reliable. Over 99% reliable, because unlike physical street signs, the failure modes aren't ones that we can fix by moving the signs or adding flashing lights. And it has to be a solution that applies to flares and bollards and temporary signage just as smoothly as it does to fixed signage. Use GPS?
Sorry, my brain just exploded.
This is not the answer (Score:5, Insightful)
The real answer is to get those older drivers off the roadways. Forget the grey panthers and require drivers over 65 to re-qualify to keep their license every 2 yrs and include a driven and reflex test as well as the usual vision test.
Old drivers aren't often in accidents, they often cause accidents. They will obliviously run a red light and cause a collision behind them while they blissfully continue on to park with their wheel up on the curb at the grocery store.
Re:Baby Boomers (Score:4, Insightful)
It feels like everything for the past 40 years has been centered around them.
Fixed that for you.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How about this instead (Score:5, Informative)
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Old people aren't the problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
U.S drivers under the age of 25 are about twice as likely [census.gov] to be involved in a fatal wreck and often 3-5 times more likely to be in a wreck per 1000 drivers.
I've seen some statistics from Canada as well which echo similar results.
Remember, old people don't drive well because they are impaired... Young people don't drive well because they make reckless and/or inexperienced decisions. If you want to restrict licenses, then you should probably start with not issuing licenses until the mid twenties for males and late teens to early 20s for women... It seems teen/young adult wrecks coincide pretty well with frontal lobe development... which in itself, could be labeled an impairment.
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