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Political and Technical Implications of GitTorrent
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Thu Dec 04, 2008 01:03 PM
from the distribute-this-sucka dept.
from the distribute-this-sucka dept.
lkcl writes "The GitTorrent
Protocol (GTP) is a protocol for collaborative
git repository distribution across the Internet.
Git
promises to be a distributed software management tool, where a repository
can be distributed. Yet, the mechanisms used to date to actually
'distribute,' such as ssh, are very much still centralized.
GitTorrent makes
Git truly distributed. The initial plans are for reducing mirror
loading, however the full plans include totally distributed development:
no central mirrors whatsoever. PGP signing (an existing feature of git)
and other web-of-trust-based mechanisms will take over from protocols on ports
(e.g. ssh) as the access control 'clearing house.'
The implications of a truly distributed revision control system are
truly staggering: unrestricted software freedom. The playing field
is leveled in so many ways, as 'The Web Site' no longer becomes the
central choke-point of control. Coming just in time for that
all-encompassing Free Software revolution hinted at by
The Rebellion Against Vista,
this article will explain more fully
some of the implications that make this quiet and technically
brilliant project, GitTorrent,
so important to Software Freedom, from both technical and
political perspectives."
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ozmanjusri writes "Online market share of the dominant Windows operating system has taken its biggest monthly fall in years to drop below 90%, according to Net Applications Inc. Computerworld reports that Microsoft's flagship product has been steadily losing ground to Mac OS X and Linux, and is at its lowest ebb in the market since 1995. 'Mac OS X... [ended] the month at 8.9%. November was the third month running that Apple's operating system remained above 8%.' The stats show that while some customers are 'upgrading' from XP to Vista, many are jumping ship to Apple, while Linux is also steadily gaining ground. A Net Applications executive suggests the slide may be caused by many of the same factors that caused the fall in Internet Explorer use. 'The more home users who are online, using Macs and Firefox and Safari, the more those shares go up,' he said. November has more weekend days, as well Thanksgiving in the US, a result that emphasizes the importance of corporate sales to Microsoft."
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Davros, is that you? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Comic Book Guy voice would be better.
no central mirrors
What
So
EVER!!!!
Re:Davros, is that you? (Score:4, Funny)
Reread the summary in Davros's voice, in creasing the volume and excitement as you get closer to the end. Come on -- it'll be fun.
What happens when you crease volume and excitement? Is it like one of those Mad fold-ins? Like it'll work out to be "volent" or "exume" or something?
Parent
Re:Davros, is that you? (Score:4, Informative)
Here's a clip for an example, for those unfamiliar:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7026801162637347552&ei=eyc4SdWjOoL8rAKQiLiTDg&q=genesis+of+the+daleks+davros [google.com]
Parent
This is why people don't take you seriously. (Score:5, Insightful)
The hyperbole makes you look like a frothing idiot.
Re:This is why people don't take you seriously. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Serve Documentation from GitTorrent (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Serve Documentation from GitTorrent (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Serve Documentation from GitTorrent (Score:5, Interesting)
Use a GUID instead. There is an RFC http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4122.txt [ietf.org] and its the same algorithm Microsoft uses. It's pretty much guaranteed to be unique if everyone follows the same process. They're used everywhere.
Parent
Re:Serve Documentation from GitTorrent (Score:5, Informative)
This is cool, your code can be free. But unfortunately you're still stuck with hosting the documentation on a central website of some sort.
no - you're not :) read the article [advogato.org]: it mentions that static content such as that generated by ikiwiki could perfectly well be generated by a locally-checked-out (gittorrent-distributed) copy of the documentation
extend that concept a little further (one step at a time!) and you have, as you rightly mention:
a standard for hosting the documentation website. IE PHP + SQlite + GitTorrent docRoot == Distributed website.
yes! although, to be much better, technically, you'd have a distributed SQL server - a peer-to-peer SQL server. there's a project that IngreSQL are keeping an eye on, called "d", that might show some promise, here.
Could even contain Trac or something, so all the bug tracking is also in the GitTorrent repository.
yes!
_now_ you're getting it :)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What is it that prevents you from putting the documentation into git as well? Does git somehow refuse to store plain English text?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, thats why there are no comments in the linux kernel
<ducks>
Re:Serve Documentation from GitTorrent (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Serve Documentation from GitTorrent (Score:4, Insightful)
Using sqlite would probably not work very well.
For issue tracking, a better example would be ditz [rubyforge.org], which stores issues as plain text. YAML, actually, but close enough. Thus, rather than thinking about this whole separate layer of SQL transactions, you deal with changes to the bug tracker with the same tools you use for managing the code.
For instance, rather than Trac's retarded behavior of refusing to let you modify an issue when someone else already has (and refusing to let you see their changes without opening a new tab), you'd let Git try to merge them, and fix it manually if necessary.
PHP would not be a good idea, either, unless it was very well secured -- you'd probably want static files for your wiki, or a safer templating language (Markdown, etc). In fact, no need to make it a wiki -- again, just keep it flat, and use git as the mechanism for distributing changes.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't get it. How does this really make the development process any more free?
Well, let's see... the repo is no longer in a single place, it's all over the place. One might conclude that removing access to such a repository might become slightly more difficult, with the proliferation of wifi, and the soon-to-be mesh networking. This has awe-inspiring possibilities for world freedom, nevermind simply software freedom.
If you ask me.... (Score:4, Funny)
...there's too many gits on the internet *now*...
Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
The primary purpose of peer to peer systems are to either avoid censorship or provide lots of cheap/free bandwidth.
Neither of these really apply to source code management. Hosting is easily sponsored and the files aren't very big anyway. Few projects will face censorship anywhere other than the most regressive regimes (ie, China or the US).
Re: (Score:2)
Think of it as abstracting away servers, sort of like the "cloud computing" concept but from a different angle. At minimum, it gives you automatic load balancing between mirrors.
I'm not sure if this particular implementation is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but there are still a ton of areas where just adding distribution + pgp signatures will make the world a better place.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I don't see the need, though. Git is small and lightweight. Large-ish projects just work off of Github, which is fast enough. If the central repository goes down, you have other means (mailing list, etc) for getting back in touch -- granted, GitTorrent would do that for you, but it seems a premature optimization when a central repository works most of the time.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
The primary purpose of peer to peer systems are to either avoid censorship or provide lots of cheap/free bandwidth.
the primary purposes _now_ are to avoid censorship and to provide lots of cheap/free bandwidth.
the last major upgrade of debian REDLINED the world's internet backbone infrastructure for a WEEK.
with the total linux usage only being - what... 1% of the world's desktop systems, and debian being a small fraction of that, the debian mirror system are ALREADY creaking under the load.
Neither of these really apply to source code management.
why not?
Hosting is easily sponsored and the files aren't very big anyway. Few projects will face censorship anywhere other than the most regressive regimes (ie, China or the US).
i don't _want_ "sponsorship". i don't _want_ my pet project hosted by a large corporation. i want it completely independent.
i want my web site content hosted and automatically mirrored across the world, along with its bugs database and its wiki all linked together.
i want people in the emerging markets and the third world to be able to have exactly the same kind of luxury that we do - and they DO NOT have "continuous access to the web site or access to the lovely sponsored hosting".
think much bigger and you will start to see why this is so damn important.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
simple answer is to have debian update more often... ;-)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Is sourceforge firewalled anywhere?
Also, I didn't know that the backbone was strained by a debian release. Did I miss the /. article, or was that not considered "news for nerds"?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
JFGIgger please [google.com].
Not going to change much (Score:2)
A website and bandwidth has never been a chokepoint, sourceforge and google code has for years provided bandwidth.
This is a problem in search of a solution.
Re:Not going to change much (Score:5, Funny)
This is a problem in search of a solution.
I believe you meant "solution in search of a problem."
Parent
Re:Not going to change much (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
bandwidth and a website in the FIRST world (Score:3, Insightful)
across most of europe, america and asia, internet access is near-unlimited.
have you considered the implications of receiving linux on a CD, and being cut off from the rest of the internet?
how would a group of 100 developers, or 1000 developers, or 10,000 developers - all of them "used to" the current levels of internet access and speed, cope in a situation where the access to the internet was restricted to intermittent 56k dialup?
It amuses me (Score:5, Interesting)
The hyperventilation notwithstanding, what amuses me most is the fact that the project is currently hosted at Google Code.
Try meditation or something.
if your product is so useful (Score:5, Insightful)
you don't need the hype. linking it to the downfall of vista makes us laugh at you
just describe what it does, dryly, concisely, technically. if it is worthy of the hype, we will supply the hype for you
but when you supply the hype, we are inclined to believe there's not much really going on with your project. which might not be true. so change your tone, for your own sake
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What you did was take a boring description and dumped in two whopping spoonfuls of hype. As if that wasn't enough, you put a spiteful cherry on top of the Slashdot submission.
This was my favorite part:
A government or an organisation decides that it doesn't want free software to be used, as it undermines their ability to exert "control".
Great. Not only do I have to worry about Chemtrails and controlled demolition conveniently disguised as terrorism, now I learn the government might want to keep me from getting my free copy of KOffice.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What exactly have you been smoking? (Score:5, Funny)
Coming just in time for that all-encompassing Free Software revolution hinted at by The Rebellion Against Vista
Can you also point me to where the rainbow-powered unicorn factories are? I imagine they probably exist in the world you seem to live in, you insufferable twit.
Color me stupid (Score:2)
But a central repository doesn't disappear when seeders disappear, and it is more easily controlled to protect commits. The magic of git is that I can easily have a private branch, and then easily merge it. But is this really a good idea?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
A group of developers can start a private project without central hosting using git already, today. Look at the man page for "git-bundle". Git commits can already be exchaged via e-mail.
Security implications? (Score:2)
The nice part about a repository hosted on a well-known site is (relative) confidence in the security of the code. If a repo is fully distributed, what's to protect against someone at a node adding malicious code? And, if something malicious is discovered in software you downloaded, how do you track it back to the source node?
Curious,
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Rebellion you say? (Score:3, Insightful)
I would rather see a rebellion on Slashdot against articles that announced FOSS news as if it was predicting the second coming of Christ.
This story is in no way related the the Microsoft's (perceived) loss in market share, not to mention the fact that those who are dropping windows are moving to Apple, not Linux. But hey, gotta go for every low blow you can get while the news is still fresh, right?
Trademark debacle waiting to happen. (Score:3, Interesting)
BitTorrent Trademark Guidelines: [bittorrent.com] "Misleading or Confusing People. If you are using any of our trademarks in a way that will cause people to get the wrong idea about BitTorrent's involvement in something, you should stop! If you have some reason why you think your proposed use isn't misleading or confusing, let's talk."
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What political implications? (Score:2)
The only software that provides people with true political power to counterbalance that of others is software that gives them actual power in the political realm. That means software that can take control of resources or kill people and break things. You know what would be a program with political implications? A semi-sentient AI that a rebel group could use to infiltrate its government's command-and-control systems and intelligently make them target their own forces.
A distributed repository has no politica
Dead project (Score:5, Informative)
The last project entries/downloads are from February 2008. Why such a hype over a dead/dormant project?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
because it's the *only* project that links git with a p2p protocol. so, i'm interested in seeing it revived.
Re:Dead project (Score:4, Insightful)
So, how about truthfully saying that in TFA, instead of blathering about the winds of change and the impending revolution?
Parent
Big Binaries: I hate them (Score:3, Insightful)
Given that a fair proportion of most of the firms I've worked for do not know how to use SCMS, a lot of the SCMS I've maintained contain rather large binary snapshots. Also, distributed firms. So this might be a useful tool if I could get people to use it. Which is unlikely.
but the politics? In this case, leave it out. Just a distraction.
My solution is very different (Score:3, Funny)
I always check my GIT repository into SVN for safe keeping ;-)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd be ok as long as you have the right keys..
Question is, how do you know which keys are trustworthy...
Debian GPG-signed Web of Trust (Score:4, Informative)
debian has a keysigning process that creates a web of trust.
http://www.chaosreigns.com/code/sig2dot/debian.html [chaosreigns.com]
http://www.debian.org/events/keysigning [debian.org]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not at all.
Git is a means of sharing and tracking changes to source code for a software project. Formerly, you needed a central server to do that. Now, with GitTorrent, it can be distributed among individual machines.
GitTorrent is designed to lower the bar for starting a multi-person software project, making it easier and cheaper for developers to collaborate with each other.
As a side effect, since there's no central server, it will be difficult for an authority to take down or block GitTorrent projects.
Re:Piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Observe the Ubuntu website this coming April when they release a new version and see if you still feel that a website is appropriate to the task. The site gets hammered so hard that it's problematic to even get the .torrent files directly from them, nevermind the ISOs, and it's not feasible to have that kind of bandwidth sitting around unused except for a few days every 6 months, nor is it currently feasible to get that much bandwidth on-demand for a website, but bittorrent allows for just that, as you're pooling the bandwidth of everyone downloading it. You can easily gets amounts of bandwidth that would cost tens of thousands of dollars to have in a conventional manner.
Parent
Point of Web of Trust (Score:3, Informative)