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KDE Goes Cross-Platform, Supports Windows and OS X

Posted by Zonk on Wed Jan 23, 2008 03:02 PM
from the strange-confluence-of-events dept.
GUI KDE OS X Operating Systems Software Windows
klblastone writes "The KDE desktop environment is going cross-platform with support for the Windows and Mac OS X operating systems. In addition to porting the core KDE libraries and applications, developers are also porting popular KDE-based software like the Amarok audio player and the KOffice productivity suite. New KDE binaries for Windows were released yesterday and are now available from KDE mirrors through an automated installer program. The Mac OS X port is made available via BitTorrent in universal binary format."
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[+] KDE Running on Mac OS X 393 comments
GeoffP writes "AppleTalk Australia is running a story on running KDE on Mac OS X. For those that don't know, KDE is a graphical desktop environment used to access your computer's files. Finally, Mac users have a free (as in speech) approach to their filesystem."
Submission: KDE goes cross-platform, supports Windows and OS X by klblastone (972628)
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KDE Goes Cross-Platform, Supports Windows and OS X 50 Comments More /

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  • Great (Score:3, Funny)

    by Divebus (860563) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:04PM (#22157592)
    That bodes well for kimovie, kiphoto and kitunes (for my kipod)

  • So will this ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by damn_registrars (1103043) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:06PM (#22157636) Journal
    ... allow me to finally have a working multi-desktop interface in windows? I've never seen a solution for multiple desktops in microsoft windows that was anywhere near as nice as the one in KDE.

    • Re:So will this ... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Kjella (173770) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:22PM (#22157922) Homepage
      Not any time soon. The desktop shell got so many ties to X11 and would need so many ties to Windows. What this is mostly for is KDE applications that have little or no dependencies on any non-qt (well, non-kde) libraries. That should actually be quite many, but only what you'd consider "normal" applications.

    • Re:So will this ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Hatta (162192) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:25PM (#22157962) Journal
      Agreed, the MSVDM crashes the only program I really need on windows, so it's a complete nonstarter. I can't believe that in 2008 ANY OS ships without this fundamental usability tool. And people give linux shit about having a crappy GUI when windows is 20 years behind.

      And while I'm at it, where's my window shading and sloppy focus too?

      • Re:So will this ... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by damn_registrars (1103043) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @06:01PM (#22160376) Journal

        There's been one in the FREE powertoys that microsoft puts out for ages... maybe since win2k

        Actually, it was added in winXP. But it wasn't particularly good, and some of us can't use XP for various reasons.

        As long as most linux distros have had it, so has M$.

        No, various X windows systems have supported multiple desktops for a lot longer than that. CDE has supported multiple desktops (at least in Solaris) for many years - and done it with the best multi-desktop controls I've seen so far. KDE and GNOME have both done it for quite some time as well. Considering XP came out October 2001, and the powertoys sometime after, I don't think one could reasonably claim that microsoft has had it as long as linux.

        That said, it's as useless in windows as it is in linux

        If you find it useless, then don't use it. But don't try to tell the rest of us that it isn't useful. Many of us find it to be very beneficial. I suspect it comes down to how one tends to organize things in your own mind.

  • Can it replace Explorer? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Wordplay (54438) <geo@snarksoft.com> on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:07PM (#22157642)
    Any word yet on whether it'll run adequately as a shell replacement under Windows? Running it over Explorer doesn't sound all that attractive, but instead of Explorer might be.

  • Supports Windows and OS X (Score:5, Funny)

    by gmf (810466) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:08PM (#22157666)
    But does it run on Linux?

  • I want to like this (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geek (5680) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:08PM (#22157668)
    I do enjoy some of the KDE applications and want to install them deep down in my soul, but because of the buggy nature and pre-release nonsense with KDE4 I'd really never trust it on my MacOSX system. I got my mac so that I wouldn't have to deal with the eternally beta Linux software situation. I want things to work, KDE4 doesn't work. Maybe in a couple years when they get their act together I'll trust it on my system but right now, as a MacOSX user, there is nothing KDE has to offer that's worth trying out. They really screwed up releasing KDE4 early. I don't trust it, I wont trust it for a long time and they're giving me no reason to begin trust any time soon.

    • Re:I want to like this (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gardyloo (512791) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:17PM (#22157840)
      Hm. Kind of like OS X v. 10.0 (from Wikipedia):

      It proved to be a rocky start to the Mac OS X line, plagued with missing features and performance issues, although it was praised for being a good start to an operating system still in its infancy, in terms of completeness and overall operating system stability.

    • Re:I want to like this (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Fallingcow (213461) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:32PM (#22158094) Homepage
      Screw the bugs, I know they'll fix most or all of those.

      I just hope to god this menu isn't final. I installed it to try it out, because it looks *so* pretty, drooled over the desktop for a bit, then clicked the applications menu (or the K menu, or wtf every they call it in KDE land) and was taken aback. "OK, so I click this to get to my programs, I guess... Oh, no new pane, it just used the same one to display the new menu and shoved the other one 'off screen'... huh, this one ALSO doesn't have my programs on it. Click again on that category, it looks like the one I want. Now on the program. Oh, shit, wrong menu, how do I go back?"

      It's like navigating the menus on my fucking cell phone. Those menus are clunky because they have to be, since screen real estate is at a premium. I can forgive that. A desktop OS' menu should never be like that. It's actually WORSE than the Vista start menu, which is saying something.

      • Re:I want to like this (Score:5, Informative)

        by geek (5680) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:23PM (#22157932)
        Well I tested KDE4 on my Ubuntu machine, found it too be very incomplete and buggy. I understand that Qt4 is quite easy to develop with, much like Cocoa is for OSX, so the development time may be shorter than I expect.

        It's not that I want the newest up to date stuff. Amarok is hardly new, it's the underlying Qt4 that's the culprit IMO. Getting Amarok on OSX would be very nice as I could replace iTunes and switch my library over to Ogg, something I've really been wanting to do. The Ogg plugin for iTunes is a little lacking and iTunes has just gotten too "in your face" with it's store for my tastes. KDE4 has a lot of promise, I admit that and applaud them on their work. I just feel they broke a trust with the user base by releasing a .0 version which was clearly still alpha software.

        I really don't know when KDE4 will be "ready". I suspect when i can run it without trouble on my Linux laptop then it'll be very soon after that the OSX port would be stable enough.

  • Don't do that. (Score:5, Funny)

    by ichigo 2.0 (900288) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:08PM (#22157670)

    developers are also porting popular KDE-based software like the Amarok audio player
    Gah, there is enough bloat in the windows world as it is. Where are the linux equivalents of foobar2000 and utorrent?

  • Just tried it out (Score:5, Informative)

    by giorgiofr (887762) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:09PM (#22157704)
    About 10 days ago I tested KDE4 on an OpenSUSE system, now I've just tried it on Windows too and I must say I'm astounded - many applications work just fine although they feel a bit sluggish. But the basic system is there and I believe it won't be long until we have a fully functional KDE4 shell as an alternative to Explorer. Or we could just stick to the apps and not use the whole desktop environment - in fact I'd like to use KOffice and a few other apps on my Windows box.
    Considering it's such an early release, I'd say KDE4 on Windows is functional beyond any expectations, and in a couple of months I hope to be using it for real and not as a toy. Kudos to the KDE team, brilliant as usual.

  • Linux wins the desktop! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:13PM (#22157776)
    (By getting ported to windows)

  • For someone who's obviously new here... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Velorium (1068080) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:14PM (#22157780)
    Does this mean Compiz Fusion is able to be run on Windows now?

  • This is good... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tprime (673835) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:24PM (#22157948)
    I know this is considered by many as blasphemy but, it can't be seen as anything other than a REALLY good thing for the linux camp out there, provided it works well. One of the biggest barriers to people running linux is that they are uncomfortable with how it will work compared to their comfy Windows box. With this, people can see that KDE is really not that dissimilar, but is more functional.

    Over time, people will see that they can run the same thing on a VASTLY less expensive computer. Get people comfortable with how it functions, show them how cheap it is by comparison, increase marketshare.
    I guess I probably should have added inserted a step three in there before the increase maketshare as ??? to follow /. policies.

  • Jews? (Score:5, Funny)

    by withoutfeathers (743004) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:26PM (#22157978)
    Why is this article tagged "jews?" Is KDE4 now kosher?

  • Autotools,makes even seasoned programmers nauseous (Score:5, Informative)

    by kop (122772) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:53PM (#22158428)
    Love the way Ars describes Autotools!

    Autotools, an intractably arcane and grotesquely anachronistic cesspool of ineffable complexity that makes even seasoned programmers nauseous.

      • Re:Vista (Score:4, Funny)

        by orclevegam (940336) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:24PM (#22157942) Journal

        How is running something on top of Vista supposed to make Vista faster?
        I think it's the same principle as how putting stickers, a spoiler, and a giant muffler on your car is supposed to make it faster. Although this apparently only works if you drive a low end Japanese made car, preferably with a four cylinder engine.

    • Re:Point? (Score:5, Informative)

      by abigor (540274) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:31PM (#22158072)
      The desktop isn't being ported, just the apps. And they will run natively as Cocoa apps. Well, they already do, but they need a lot of polishing before they are usable.

    • Re:Point? Diversity. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Devil's Avocado (73913) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:55PM (#22158480)
      I believe you just answered your own question. There are some really nice KDE apps available that would be great to have running native on OS X. Krita is a more capable image editor than just about anything available on Mac short of Photoshop. (Try finding any other free image editor that supports 16-bit/channel color and filter layers.) Digikam is also shaping up to be a powerful photo workflow app. I've adjusted to the Mac apps now but back in the day I would have loved to keep using kmail, which is still more functional than Mail.app. In short, more diversity == more choices == better.

      Mac developers can design shinier interfaces than anyone else, but too often they gloss over core functionality and/or remain closed-source. It's valuable to have apps designed from the opposite perspective available as well.

      • Re:Point? Diversity. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by misleb (129952) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @04:44PM (#22159236)

        I believe you just answered your own question. There are some really nice KDE apps available that would be great to have running native on OS X.


        Only if you consider a QT app to be native, which I don't. QT is an abstraction of the Carbon API. And KDE is further abstraction of QT. I doubt that any KDE app would ever integrate well enough with the rest of my OS X desktop to make me want to use it. And if the K app was really that awesome, I'd always secretly be hoping for someone to port/rewrite/reimplement it directly to Cocoa.

        Anyway, the app I mentioned was GTK. Though I should mention that I haven't read newsgroups in a while and haven't bothered reinstall PAN since I upgraded to Leopard. I guess my point is that for most common functionality, I find that native Cocoa apps are not only better individually than Linux counterparts, but also integrate better with each other. Like Java (Swing/SWT) apps, K apps would have an automatic handicap running on OS X in my opinion.

        -matthew

        • Re:Point? Diversity. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Devil's Avocado (73913) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @06:51PM (#22161028)
          We can bicker all day about what's "native" and what's not, but it really doesn't make one bit of difference. If an app does a job I need it to with an interface that doesn't get in the way then it's an asset. Sure, it would be great if everybody ported every app on the planet to Cocoa with loving devotion, but that's not going to happen. KDE has innovative and powerful apps to offer, and being able to run them as first-class apps on OS X is a Very Good Thing(TM). Furthermore, having OS X as a supported platform means those apps are likely to integrate *better* with the system over time instead of staying in the X11 ghetto.

      • Re:But why (Score:4, Informative)

        by jank1887 (815982) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @03:58PM (#22158522)
        step one, download the kubuntu iso...

        • I want it to work on my windows 98 boxes
          step one, download the kubuntu iso...

          Step two: have your dial-up ISP hang up on you before the download completes, or not have any way to boot the ISO to install it. High-speed Internet access (and Ethernet cards to enable it) and CD recorders were not universal on machines sold in the Windows 98 era. Workaround: Buy a copy of Kubuntu on CD.

          Step three: You downloaded or bought the wrong CD. Many PCs from the Windows 98 era had 128 MB of RAM, but the Kubuntu live CD needs about twice that. Instead, you will need the alternate installer CD. But by this time, you might as well use Xubuntu instead.

          Step four: Have the CD fail to recognize at least one of sound, networking, and printing. Many older video cards have decent Free 2D drivers in X.Org, but winmodems and winprinters were unfortunately common in that era.

          • Re:Dial-up, no CD recorder, or winhardware (Score:5, Interesting)

            by cayenne8 (626475) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @04:59PM (#22159508) Homepage Journal
            " step one, download the kubuntu iso...

            Step two: have your dial-up ISP hang up on you before the download completes, or not have any way to boot the ISO to install it. High-speed Internet access (and Ethernet cards to enable it) and CD recorders were not universal on machines sold in the Windows 98 era. Workaround: Buy a copy of Kubuntu on CD.

            Step three: You downloaded or bought the wrong CD. Many PCs from the Windows 98 era had 128 MB of RAM, but the Kubuntu live CD needs about twice that. Instead, you will need the alternate installer CD. But by this time, you might as well use Xubuntu instead.

            Step four: Have the CD fail to recognize at least one of sound, networking, and printing. Many older video cards have decent Free 2D drivers in X.Org, but winmodems and winprinters were unfortunately common in that era. "

            Step Five: Get a real job, or loosen up the old purse strings and pony up a couple of dollars to buy a NEW computer? C'mon, minimal systems that will blow away the hardware you must have can be had for the $200 range...heck, I hear some of them at Wallyworld Mart come WITH linux pre-installed. For a few more dollars, I saw one at Dell for $349.

            • Re:Dial-up, no CD recorder, or winhardware (Score:5, Informative)

              by xtracto (837672) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @06:10PM (#22160524) Journal
              Step Five: Get a real job, or loosen up the old purse strings and pony up a couple of dollars to buy a NEW computer? C'mon, minimal systems that will blow away the hardware you must have can be had for the $200 range...heck, I hear some of them at Wallyworld Mart come WITH linux pre-installed. For a few more dollars, I saw one at Dell for $349.

              You fail miserably. There are places outside your world where people get $349 *a month* for a living. And they must maintain a complete family (in fact, the average income of people in Mexico is about 515 and $2000 [sustainer.org] a year.

              There are lots of these people who can not buy a new computer, and are still happily using their 486 or even 386 with windows 95 and 98. And some of them using dial up internet connections!

              • Re:Dial-up, no CD recorder, or winhardware (Score:4, Insightful)

                by cayenne8 (626475) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @09:33PM (#22162496) Homepage Journal
                "You fail miserably. There are places outside your world where people get $349 *a month* for a living. And they must maintain a complete family (in fact, the average income of people in Mexico is about 515 and $2000 [sustainer.org] a year. There are lots of these people who can not buy a new computer, and are still happily using their 486 or even 386 with windows 95 and 98. And some of them using dial up internet connections! "

                Well, from the poster's comments.....I gathered he was probably in the US. You're generally not going to be in the US posting on /. on less than $349/mo.

                That being said....I do myself like to recycle older hardware, but, you gotta go for what will work on them. You don't use a brand new version of ubuntu or RH or whatever on old hardware....you have to install basic linux...roll your kernel to min of what you need....and go for lower end window manager, etc if you want gui.

                I mean....win 95 wasn't exactly the resource hog that modern versions of MS windows are.

                One big problem is his using dial up.....but, it can be done. My first linux install was on an old box in about 1994 or so....I did slackware...downloaded for weeks to get all the parts on floppy....and I installed it. It can be done....

            • Re:Dial-up, no CD recorder, or winhardware (Score:4, Insightful)

              by emj (15659) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @06:32PM (#22160814) Homepage Journal
              step six: Earth is gone because no one wants to use old stuff.

            • Re:Dial-up, no CD recorder, or winhardware (Score:4, Insightful)

              by couchslug (175151) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @08:37PM (#22162038)
              There are piles of old machines for donors, and it's quite practical to make a usable Linux box out of good throwaways. There is no need to use Win-shit.

              A 440BX board or better, a PII or III, as much memory as ya can fit, a Soundblaster card, a 3Com or Intel NIC, a US Robotics external modem if you are on dialup, and an HP LaserJet for basic printing.

              Well-supported, good hardware that's available in thrift stores, dumpsters, etc. Remember that you can build machines out of junk, and there is plenty of good junk.

              Sure, plenty of us have money for better, but many of us don't and they needn't suffer much for it.

    • Re:Two interesting perspectives (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EvilRyry (1025309) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @04:10PM (#22158690) Journal
      Approaches like that pulled me over to Linux on the desktop. KDE will always be associated with Linux. If you get Windows users hooked, next time they need to reload their OS because it goes completely berserk and dies for no obvious reason for the 2nd time in two years they might reconsider which CD to stick in the drive. That's basically my story ( not with KDE obviously , same laptop still runs Linux btw ).

    • Re:Two interesting perspectives (Score:4, Interesting)

      by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @10:37PM (#22162932)

      Is KDE's cross-platform approach going to backfire?

      I doubt it. First, the core QT developers are probably always going to be Linux people. Maybe that will change and the KDE people can start to worry, but I don't see it happening. The way things are now, these are apps that are Linux native, and will now mostly work on other OS's (but never perfectly or with all the benefits of native apps). Rather, the main advantage here is that there may be support from Windows and OS X developers who will contribute to KDE based projects when they don't have a good and fully native OSS project. It also can serve to give users of other OS's a preview of what they can expect if they switch to Linux and give large organizations using or considering a missed environment an easier way to keep or make Linux an option.

      Imagine you run a government agency and you occasionally consider Linux as a way to cut costs. You're currently using Windows, but you figure you could switch 80% of your systems without any real problems. Unfortunately, you have another project coming up where you're developing a custom application internally and you don't have the budget to build native versions for Windows and Linux. If you're in that place, this is an answer (as is Java). Move internal projects to KDE and target Windows and Linux and you can also use it for those graphics people on Macs who currently have two computers. The real question is, will this be a better cross-platform solution than Java is?

    • Re:For Redundant, See Redundant (Score:5, Insightful)

      by vux984 (928602) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @04:11PM (#22158716)
      KDE = K Desktop Environment. When you say "KDE Desktop Environment", you are actually saying "I don't really know what I'm talking about". Rant Over.

      The "K Desktop Environment" abbreivated "KDE" is the full name of the project. Its not a project called "K". And KDE is a desktop environment, so the KDE desktop environment while somewhat 'redundant' if you expand the acronym, is perfectly acceptable: "The 'K Desktop Environment' desktop environment has been ported to..."

      The same sort of thing applies to, say, DOS, OS/2, or BeOS. Where it is perfectly acceptable to say "The DOS operating system...", "The OS/2 operating system...", "The BeOS operating system...".

      Do you ask if someone's PC has an AGP port? I've never ever heard anyone say, "Do you have an AGP?" Or maybe you say "AGP slot" which is still redudnant: As in "Do you have an accelerated graphics port slot"?

      Do you take offense if someone refers to the the perl language? The POP, PPP, TCP/IP, or PPTP protocols? And I can only imagine how you must burn right up when told to enter your SIN number. ;)

    • Re:Now Windows and Mac users can enjoy... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by segedunum (883035) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @04:20PM (#22158856) Homepage

      the bliss that is getting harassed with a context menu every single fricken time they drag and drop a file!
      I actually find it pretty useful. At least, unlike other desktop environments, I actually know when a file is going to be copied or moved, and I am not going to go somewhere in a hurry with my USB flash disk only to find that I've only made a bloody shortcut to the file that is about fifty miles away. It happens.

    • Or drag and drop correctly. (Score:4, Informative)

      by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Wednesday January 23 2008, @05:02PM (#22159556) Journal
      Hold shift+drag to move, ctrl+drag to copy.

      On Windows, I enjoy the bliss of not knowing until I try it whether a particular drag-n-drop is going to result in moving the file, copying the file, creating a shortcut, or just make something up. Same with OS X, and with every other system that tries to helpfully guess for me.

      On KDE, if I forget to hold down shift (move) or ctrl (copy), I get a context menu, instead of some completely unpredictable behavior. It mentions the keyboard shortcuts, so that if I'm intelligent, that menu will never bother me again, and I'll know exactly what I'm doing.

      • Re:Or drag and drop correctly. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Somegeek (624100) on Wednesday January 23 2008, @05:11PM (#22159714)
        Before you drop the files (or whatever) that you're draging in Windows, look at the icon.
        If it's just the expected icon, it's going to be a move.
        If it has a '+' sign appended onto it, it will be a copy.
        If has a shortcut arrow on it, it will be a shortcut.

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