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Olympic Media Village – Most Expensive Internet In the World?
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Jul 28, 2008 02:02 AM
from the yuan-way-to-think-about-it dept.
from the yuan-way-to-think-about-it dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Working for the Olympics as an IT contractor, I recently moved to the Media Village (where all of the reporters live) and was surprised the there was no free internet. BOCOG (Beijing Organizing Committee of the 2008 Olympic Games) is charging a ridiculous amount of money for ADSL service: for 512/512 it costs 7712.5 RMB (1131.20 USD); for 1M/512 it costs 9156.25 (1342.95 USD); for 2M/512 it costs a whopping 11,700 RMB (1716.05 USD). That is for only one month! For extra features like a fixed IP? That costs an additional 450 RMB (66 USD). I just can't believe that not only do I have to deal with the Great Firewall of China, but also pay through the nose to use it!"
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Submission: Most Expensive Internet in the World? by Anonymous Coward
[+]
Your Rights Online: IOC Admits Internet Censorship Deal With China 380 comments
Dave writes "BEIJING (Reuters) — Some International Olympic Committee officials cut a deal to let China block sensitive websites despite promises of unrestricted access, a senior IOC official admitted on Wednesday.
Persistent pollution fears and China's concerns about security in Tibet also remained problems for organizers nine days before the Games begin.
China had committed to providing media with the same freedom to report on the Games as they enjoyed at previous Olympics, but journalists have this week complained of finding access to sites deemed sensitive to its communist leadership blocked.
'I regret that it now appears BOCOG has announced that there will be limitations on website access during Games time,' IOC press chief Kevan Gosper said, referring to Beijing's Olympic organizers.
'I also now understand that some IOC officials negotiated with the Chinese that some sensitive sites would be blocked on the basis they were not considered Games related,' he said." But yet somehow the mainstream media will ignore this because the Olympics are patriotic or something.
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I see no comments... (Score:5, Funny)
Possibly because at those rates, nobody can afford to comment! Media censorship has succeeded again!
nw chrgs sk (Score:5, Funny)
F u china gvnmt.i rly wld lk to sy mre thn jst ths fw wrds bt th hgh chrgs ar nt afdble. f nly i cld b bl t wrt tht i dsprve ntrly f ths hgh chrgs i wldnt hv 2 b abrvted nd cd say f i hv bn absd or trtred o not. f i cd offrd 2 tll f i hv bn trtrd trst m i wld jst sy t. nywy i wl hv 2 snf nw bcz i m lt fr a prtst mrch in tinman sqr. i shld b bck sn, sry i hd 2 mk ths so shrt. nxt tm i wl c f i cn gt a discnt o nt. i wl c. ltrs bb, bckslsdt .. b th wy, i wt dd u tnk f th btmn mvie? t ws wmsm u rly shldc c t f u gt th chnce. hth ldgr ws gd, i thnk oscr 4 sre, nt jst ot f smpthy. nwy i wl c u ltr, b b, \.
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Re:nw chrgs sk (Score:4, Informative)
TITLE: New charges suck
Fuck you China Government. I really would like to say more than just these few words, but the high charges are not affordable.
If only I could be able to write that I disapprove entirely of these high charges I wouldn't have to be abbreviated and could say if I have been abused or tortured or not.
If I could afford to tell if I have been tortured trust me I would just say it.
Anyway I will have to sign off now because I'm late for a protest march in Tianamen Square.
I should be back soon, sorry I had to make this so short.
Next time I will see if I can get a discount or not.
Laters, bye bye \.
By the way, (i) what did you think of the Batman movie? It was awesome, you really should see it if you get the chance. Heath Ledger was good, I think Oscar for sure, not just out of sympathy.
Anyway, I will see you later, bye bye \.
Parent
Not So Expensive for Normal Folk (Score:5, Interesting)
As for the Great Firewall, well if you want to read (in English) what the mainland Chinese netizens are doing on blogs and forums there is only one excellent resource: EastSouthWestNorth [zonaeuropa.com]. Check it out. It has regular citizens burning down police stations, reporting on blogs with Chinese characters upside down, using 'corrupt American administration' for certain stories as an synonym for 'corrupt Chinese administration' (especially this post [zonaeuropa.com]).
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Re:Not So Expensive for Normal Folk (Score:5, Informative)
I lived in Beijing until very recently and the lowest cost was about 99rmb per month (3month contract) for a 10Mbps connection w/o any limits. That was a static private IP.
ADSL with a dynamic/public IP started at about the same for 512/512 and went up from there.
Pretty cheap, I thought.
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Dunno if it's censorship1 (Score:5, Insightful)
Dunno, it seems to me more like good old, capitalistic smelling when you can fleece someone. Just like, say, buying stuff on an airport might be more expensive than at the mall down the road.
Basically, those journalists don't have many other choices, since their readers and viewers expect coverage of those events. So as long as you price it just high enough so it's not worth it to find some other way, they'll pay.
Plus, it might come as a shock to some people, but some resources do cost more in other countries. I'll take a guess that China's broadband infrastructure is _probably_ in an even worse state than the USA's. So to give a few thousands of journalists 512 MB/s full time, no throttling, they have to throttle the already poor connections of a few million other people. It will cost you.
Parent
Chinese Capitalism (Score:5, Interesting)
>>Dunno, it seems to me more like good old, capitalistic smelling when you can fleece someone. Just like, say, buying stuff on an airport might be more expensive than at the mall down the road.
From my experience in China, the Chinese are much more "capitalistic" than Americans. Sure, it's a nominally communist dictatorship, but at the individual level, they're very making-money-oriented. From kids hustling DVDs on the streets of Shanghai to nearly every vendor being willing to haggle with you, it felt more like a free market than any market I've been in in America.
But yeah, when they see foreigners, they see an opportunity to charge an order of magnitude more for something than they'd charge a fellow Chinese. When entering a subway in Shanghai, I heard something interesting, so I walked over to a vendor. He looked at me, said, "Rolex watch? 100 RMB." I looked at him and said in Chinese, "Oh really? You just sold one to that guy for 15." He laughed, and charged me the Chinese price.
Personally, I'm sort of confused why journalists are being required to live in a special village anyway - it's not like they are going to be interacting with anyone outside of their own bubble chamber there, and if they stay elsewhere they can get accommodations and internet access for much less, and probably just as nice.
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Re:Dunno if it's censorship1 (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, large media companies are footing the bill, the cost of the broadband is half the cost of a dinner in the 5-star hotel they dare not tread 50 meters from.
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Re:Dunno if it's censorship1 (Score:4, Funny)
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The great firewall (Score:5, Informative)
I just can't believe that not only do I have to deal with the Great Firewall of China, but also pay through the nose to use it!
As far as I remember, it is a specific requirement from IOC that the journalists have full access to the entire internet, so probably the connections go past the firewall. That said, it is still ridiculously expensive ;-)
Re:The great firewall (Score:5, Funny)
Inversion Of Control? Huh? What's that got to do with it?
Oh wait, I need to get out more.
Parent
Try Dubai.. (Score:5, Informative)
Oh please.. I pay about $6k/mo. for my business's Internet connection (2mbps).
I am not an Internet company. This is for our office of 17 employees.
SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH!
And yes, they do block things at will here too. They didn't in the past (at least not for the businesses in the free zones). Now they do.
So, sorry.. no sympathy here.
Luxury! (Score:5, Funny)
You kids today don't know how good you have it. Why, back in my day, I paid ONE WHEELBARROW FULL OF GOLD, every week, for a 75 baud line that I shared with my two hundred employees, their families, and their in-laws.
Oh, and it was half duplex! Every time we were done sending and wanted to start receiving, we had to climb a ladder to the top of the building -- which was an 80 story skyscraper, mind you -- and switch the wires around. Even during a thunderstorm.
And mister, you better believe that when we finally got an MP3 downloaded, we cherished it. We didn't just cram it in an iPod Shuffle and forget about it like these hoodla do now.
Parent
Re:Luxury! (Score:4, Funny)
75 baud? You had it lucky. We only dreamed of 75 baud. Why, when I was a lad we had to sacrifice a family member every day for the privilege of whistling into the phone line to send while someone else jotted down the notes he heard to receive. And every night our Dad would thrash us to sleep every time we got a NO CARRIER.
Parent
Re:Luxury! (Score:5, Funny)
Every time we were done sending and wanted to start receiving, we had to climb a ladder to the top of the building -- which was an 80 story skyscraper, mind you
Oh yeah? Well, back in MY day we didn't HAVE 80-story skyscrapers. What WE did was climp up a ONE-story skyscraper 80 TIMES! And we didn't have half-duplex! We had one wire! One wire pigtailed to earth and in order to send a byte, you had to send 8 times using a bit shift register to move the bit that got onto the wire over one slot each time. All the other bits wound up on the floor, in your hair, everywhere! Oh did I mention that we used carrier pigeons for bits?
-b
Parent
Re:Luxury! (Score:4, Funny)
You had alligator clips? We had to use Choristodera clips!
-b
Parent
Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Same goes for most of Africa, where Internet costs upwards $10,000 a month for a 256K link by fiber (if you're in one of the eight coastal cities that get it) or by VSAT. Typically a 256K link is shared by 10 cybercafes, each with up to 50 users at once. Note also that average earnings are 20-40 times lower than in the USA or Europe, making the Internet about 40,000 times more costly.
This is not because of any technical difficulties, it's because of cartel pricing that keeps competition out.
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:5, Insightful)
This [wikimedia.org] is Dubai. Notice anything, moron?
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:5, Funny)
Notice anything...?
Everybody's driving on the wrong side of the road...Definitely photoshopped.
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:5, Informative)
No natural resources apart from... oil! Or do you believe that trade should be banned and things built only with the resources already local? The Middle East may also find itself a natural location for solar energy should it ever become viable (which bit by bit it starts to look as though it might). And before oil, Dubai has been also been an important trading point for centuries due to its prime location. Dubai has many reasons for existing, not the least of which is that people in that part of the world would like a city to live in. Or would you have them scattered about in tents, culture stifled?
Now the slave labour issue you are right to comment on. Immigrant workers in the UAE get a dreadful deal and this should change. However, I said nothing about this, only that the GP was talking out of his or her bottom when they called it "the middle of a shithole wasteland" where camels drifted randomly about the place eating copper wiring. Clearly this person needed educating as to the actual size and level of technological development of Dubai and I was happy to oblige - graphically.
Now you come at me with what I can only take to be some sort of condemnation of the existence of the city. Certainly if you're willing to put 2,000,000+ people up at your place you might be justified in suggesting getting rid of the place, but for the meantime, I think it's a bit wrong to condemn it for being there. As to the slave labour, I hope that improves but, assuming you are from the USA, it's worth pointing out that your country has its own slave labour industry only you call it "prison labour." Used in such stalwarts as Toys-R-Us, Honda, Konica, Microsoft where people have been paid as little as $0.50 per hour. Prison is profit in the USA. No wonder you have the highest incarceration rates in the World.
Obviously I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but pointing out a false sense of superiority is a useful step toward improving things. And besides, my sole point was that Dubai is a big, highly-developed city and the OP is crassly wrong to think it is some wasteland.
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dubai has existed for centuries as a thriving port city and I don't remember there being a massive automobile industry in the 1700's. It has an excellent location for trade. But what, anyway, is the point of saying "yeah, but if it wasn't for the oil industry it wouldn't be like that..." It does have an oil industry and the people who live here are justified in using it to improve their living environment, are they not? Or perhaps you feel that they shouldn't. This is shifting, by the way. Dubai is now one of the worlds financial capitals. Not all business needs to be pulling things out of the ground and sticking them together anymore (thankfully).
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:4, Informative)
yes, but not at the cost of Chinese and Indian slave labor. http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/11/dark_side_of_du.html [abcnews.com]
Parent
Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:5, Informative)
Pretty much until the hotels are full, I guess. If you're talking about Israelis, then you have a problem.But Jewish != Israeli. The nastiest trick the Israeli government pulls is to try and pretend it represents not a nation, but an ethnicity. Nobody should let another country define who they are and what they believe in.
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously quite a few Israelis are Jews, but not all Jews are Israelis. Again obviously, Palestinians are mostly Arabs, yet not all Arabs are Palestinian. Less obvious is that there are Jews who are native Palestinians, and Palestinian Arabs who are Israeli citizens. It is far from a simple issue.
Oh, and in no way do all Jews support the Zionists or the occupation of Israel, conversely not all Arabs are against the Zionist movement and some wish success to the nation of Israel. Most in the region, Arab and Jew alike wish for peace and stability and an end to bloodshed and animosity. Its hard to see this though when all we have in the media are polarised soundbites of politicians propagandising, though the net is changing that.
History time, feel free to skip to the last bit. Israel was last under Jewish control around 200AD when the Romans kicked them out, naming it Palestine 'cos thats what the Greeks had called it for centuries.
It was then under the control of various empires, most recently changing hands from the Ottoman Empire to the British IIRC. The natives were mostly Arabs and Jews, with some European influences. Arabs and Jews lived side by side in harmony all this time, it was so happy that they had flowers and rainbows and lollipops and sunshine pouring out their arseholes. Well not quite, but it was about to get worse.
Zionism popped up near the end of the 1800s I think, wanted a homeland and started a mass migration to Palestine. This was going smoothly enough, fine by the Brits, but it was enough to start a counter movement by the local Arabs, who identified strongly with the Syrian independence movement and wanted the Brits out.
So anyway skipping ahead, after WWII and the Holocaust the UN backed Israel, and the Palestine conflict was born. Israel was reclaimed after 1700 odd years and it sort of pissed off the local resident Arabs that their ancestral homes were being taken and they were being shot up and forced to seek refuge in Jordan, Syria, Iran, Lebanon and elsewhere, where around half (5 million or so) still reside to this day.
Let me finish up with the six day war. In the sixties Egypt kicked the UN out of its territory which it had invited there (and had every right to kick out), it was all show, just posturing but Israel took the bait, shat themselves and preemptively struck out. Treaties between the local Arabs kicked in causing a war between Israel on one side, and Egypt, Syria and Iran on the other. Oh and Jordan. The Arabs got thumped, and Egypt eventually signed a peace treaty. I'm not sure the others ever did, and are probably still at a ceasefire or something. It helps explain the tensions between Israel and Iran though. I mean, if you got your arse kicked by your cocky little upstart neighbour you'd probably stay pissed for a long time.
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Re:Try Dubai.. (Score:4, Funny)
Redneck is derogatory in the same way that towelhead is. Neither being racist. Both being prejudiced.
I don't know of any popular arab female singers warbling "I'm a towelhead woman!"
Parent
Re:So move out of Dubai then (Score:4, Funny)
Why anyone would want to live there is a mystery to me. Is saving tax really worth living in a sterile cultureless city in the middle of a desert?
But Vegas is fun!!
Parent
As an IT contractor ... (Score:5, Insightful)
how comes your company doesn't pay for it?
Keeps the "illegal" bloggers at bay... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no free lunch (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember getting insulted at a hotel because they wanted to charge me $10 a day for internet access. I certainly sympathize...
...However, one must also understand the economics of the situation. For our cable modems and DSL lines, the long-term subscriptions allow the initial investment to be recaptured over time. Does the same apply at the Chinese Olympics?
Re:There is no free lunch (Score:5, Insightful)
"I think the initial investment is less than one month of internet at those prices."
Exactly the GPs point. The initial investment has to be less than a month of Internet, because it will take an enormous amount of time to recoup the investment once the olympics are over. There is simply no way that the enormous infrastructure needed for the olympics are going to be anywhere near affordable for local residents any time soon.
Thus, the prices are jacked up to fully cover the initial investment plus a healthy profit.
Parent
Of course it costs. (Score:5, Insightful)
deep packet inspection and analysis for all your communication is expensive.
In communist China (Score:4, Insightful)
You're a rich American, remember? I think they're putting the screws to you and pulling your leg; a coworker of mine just got back from China about 3 weeks ago and he said his hotel in Beijing had free wireless. Sneak into a hotel and give that a shot. What's the worst that could happen
Re:In communist China (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:In communist China (Score:5, Interesting)
I can do you ONE BETTER.
While I was in China for 3 weeks I visited over 20 cities (I think, it was mostly a blur) and had CELLULAR INTERNET the entire time provided by a local friend. I had a HELL of a time getting the right drivers to work on my laptop, especially since I could not read Chinese websites and instruction manuals, but I got it done.
It was fast and I never found a city without service. Ummm, actually... I had better service than I do with Verizon here in the US, and Verizon is pretty GOOD.
So I am just dumbstruck that these people have not found a way around these providers that are clearly "butt raping the tourists". I can see them getting together in a private room at a restaurant getting drunk of the local alcohol (which can be REAL strong) and laughing hysterically.
I would suggest he strike up a friendship with a local and get a card through them. I think I remember that it was around 100-150$ USD per month, which is pretty competitive and even close to prices here in the US.
The strangest part is that the card is provided through the "postal service". They get it at their version of the post office. Maybe it was a translation error, but it was a strange deal. In any case I did not have to rely on the wireless in the hotels :)
If I remember correctly these cards should be compatible with certain 3G routers too. In any case, since the guy is supposed to be an IT guy I am sure he could find a way to share and even bond a couple of the cards together.
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What is wrong? It is for only some weeks. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Let me guess, you are typing this on a cell phone?
Re:What is wrong? It is for only some weeks. (Score:4, Interesting)
Usually, the Olympic villages are used as residential areas (often for university students and the like) after the games. The Chinese aren't stupid, so I would expect them to do the same, and I figure they want to use the Olympics to pay for all the infrastructure. Can't blame them, it's one of the points of having the Olympics in your country, after all.
Parent
some unkind words (Score:5, Insightful)
you went to the Olympics as a contractor to make money. now you find out tool you need for the job actually costs money instead of being free, a lot of money. well, so you assumed and fucked up. Are we learning yet?
Just like buisness hotels (Score:5, Insightful)
Every single person in the media village is attached to one of the media organizations covering the Olympics. That means every penny they spend will be 100% reimbursed by the corporation that has them out there. The company's already spending millions to send the manpower and equipment over there, what's an extra $1k here or there? And of course it's only for 1 month, that's how long the Olympics are.
This is the same as all business hotels. Your run of the mill Best Western, Days Inn, etc family chains all have free Wifi internet. Minute you go to any "business class" hotel or go within a block of a convention center, you start getting charged $10/day to $10/hr. It's all reimbursed through their company so the person staying doesn't care, and a company's not going to reasonably tell employees not to pay $10 to access their e-mail and work an extra hour from the hotel when they're paying $200/night anyway.
International Youth Hostel Backpackers' Club ISP (Score:5, Informative)
In Beijing across the street from the train station, you'll find the International Youth Hostel. On the third floor there's the backpackers' club where they have six machines hooked up to the internet.
They charge 3RMB an hour. If you book it for the entire month, I'm sure it would cost much less than 7712.5RMB :)
For your information, a hostel room with two beds costs 180RMB and you share the shower/sinks/bathrooms. I stayed there for a couple of days. It was worth every penny and it was impeccably clean. I highly recommend it.
It's just the olympic village (Score:5, Informative)
Internet cafes are still only 1 dollar an hour, and our office here in Beijing's connection with 2MBps up/down and 4 static IPs is about $130/month.
LS
It's just the Olympic Media Village (Score:5, Interesting)
I work in Beijing and the internet costs there are pretty reasonable, closer to the general costs in Southeast Asia (Singapore, Malaysia, etc.) than anything else. You can step into most Starbucks and use the free wireless in there. Even the hotels like Hotel 81 have free internet (LAN wire provided).
As a foreign Chinese, I mix alot with the locals and some of them treat me as one of themselves though others not so much. They have a big in-joke amongst all of them about ripping off foreigners especially whites. Of course, they also complain all day about whites taking away their girls. Not my opinion, theirs.
You'll be able to find reasonably priced stuff all over Beijing outside of the expats' area (Chaoyang) and the Olympic areas.
Censor salaries (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, that's covering the salaries of the team of people who'll be assigned to monitor and hand-filter the connection, including your email, web browsing, and IP phone calls ;-)
More likely it's an attempt to extract money from rich media companies - who'll just knock it off their taxable income anyway - but the censor army isn't as far fetched as I'd like to think.
It's a little scary that satellite or UMTS/HSDPA 'net access might actually be cheaper than local ADSL circuits, though.
you're own fault (Score:4, Funny)
Clearly you have a big nose and so can afford it.
It's your own fault.
Next time, get a smaller nose.
The mob running the country (Score:5, Interesting)
Imagine New York when the mob was running a lot of it. Now imagine the mob winning the battles with the police, and taking over not only the whole city, but the entire USA.
That's what China is and feels like.
So be careful, and give them whatever they want.
First Olympics? (Score:5, Informative)
The organizing committees for the Olympic Games always charge an excessive amount of money for everything. As a contractor, I'm sure you have absolutely no idea what your room is costing, but I'm sure it is around ten thousand dollars for a mere three weeks. And the media housing is not a four star hotel.
Check out the rate card if you are really interested in cost inflation. A chair rental in the press center is usually between $300 and $600. And this is not for a nice adjustable chair--this is for a chair that would cost $30 to $50 retail.
Heck, everyone gets in the act: when I visited China last year, a first class direct business fare from New York City was under $1500. For the Olympics, that same flight was well over $6000.
You may also think the food at local restaurants is affordable, but I can assure you that the local merchants have probably doubled or tripled their prices.
There is nothing given away for free at the Olympics. Except for pins. And you usually have to trade for them.
Incidentally, here are a couple of other quick tips: China is not a democracy, don't drink the water ever (the locals don't), and make time to visit the Great Wall.
Re:Capitalist China? (Score:5, Insightful)
News flash: China has spent the last 15-20 years transitioning to capitalism.
Depending on how you want to look at it, they're almost as free (some would say more free) in that respect than we are in the US.
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Re:Capitalist China? (Score:4, Informative)
Here are some examples
Lots of live concerts, inside bars, non-government concert halls, etc have been told they could not perform, via a police crackdown. Also since any live concert of any type needs a permit the office giving those permits has not been giving them out to non-government organized events for the past months, for the time during and leading to the olympics.
large parts of the city have been placed off limits to anyone who does not have business in that area, and if are a tourist you have no business.
Restaurants are being told what they can serve during the Olymipic time period.
Doctors are being told that they cannot perform elective medical surgery, this is more because the government wants to make sure enough trained medical personal are available.
Everyone is required to carry ID and police are allow to stop and perform full searches and verifiication of residence and belongings at any time.
Even more lockdown on travel for Chinesse, it is easier for a forgiener to travel around the country then it is for a citizen.
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Re:Capitalist China? (Score:4, Informative)
Even more lockdown on travel for Chinesse, it is easier for a forgiener to travel around the country then it is for a citizen.
I just want to address this last point. It's always easier for a foreigner to do just about anything than it is for a citizen. China is backwards from many countries, particularly from the US, in this respect. Most places, natives have it easy and foreigners are viewed with suspicion, given more difficulty by the government, etc. In China it's the other way around. If you're a foreigner then everything is much easier. Police and government officials are much nicer, the places you're likely to visit are usually cleaner, people in general tend to be more polite. A major exception is prices; things tend to spontaneously become more expensive the moment somebody notices that you're not Chinese.
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