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Best Buy + Windows Guru = Apple Store Experience?
Posted by
kdawson
on Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:21 AM
from the better-paid-than-geniuses dept.
from the better-paid-than-geniuses dept.
CWmike writes "As part of Windows Vista's $300 million marketing rehab, Microsoft will hire an initial wave of 155 'Windows Gurus' to walk around Best Buy and Circuit City stores to answer customer questions and defend Vista's reputation against skeptics, reports say. Gurus will earn $20 an hour or more, plus benefits. (Apply here.) One way Windows Gurus will differ from Apple Geniuses is that they are not intended to be sources of free technical support for existing Vista users. 'The Guru role is to help sell Windows-based PCs. It is not to be an alternative tech support channel for Microsoft as this has no financial return beyond improved customer satisfaction,' Baker said. One reason: Windows Gurus could end up 'lightning rods for customers' frustrations with Vista.'"
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Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa (Score:5, Funny)
We'd... um... like to be like that company... that sells that O/S... that every one like... likes.
So we're going to send out these expensive sales people... to hype our product... but not stand behind it like the other guys do... because that would... be like work, man.
Re:Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa (Score:5, Informative)
ok, several things:
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real stoners (Score:5, Funny)
Don't have the energy or desire to determine all that.
I need a twinkie and some diet squirt.
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Re:Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa (Score:5, Informative)
I did computer security for a medical marijuana club in San Francisco, and learned quite a bit about cannabis while there. While I agree that real stoners don't call weed 'Sativa,' I disagree about the reasons.
First, Sativa does not have a low THC to CBD ratio. If anything, the reverse is true. Sativa gives an up, chatty, let's go out and do something kind of high. Indica has been bred for centuries to have a high CBD to THC ratio, for pain relief. It gives a sink you into the couch, stoned out of your gourd kind of high.
Indica and Sativa plants grow differently, sativa has a tall, rangy habit while indica grows a single, fat, 'donkey dick' bud. Under ideal conditions, both strains can produce the same amount per square foot of indoor hydroponic space. Sativa does tend to produce more outdoors on a per plant basis, however, as it can grow to enormous size.
Almost all modern pot is a hybrid between those two strains, as most recreational users tend to prefer the high from sativa, while indoor growers prefer the compact habit of indica. You can actually talk coherently on a sativa high, while medical users tend to prefer indica for its pain relief and appetite stimulating effects.
The strains bred for hemp production are generally sativa type, but these strains have very little THC at all. Modern high grade pure sativa strains generally top out around 20% THC, while indica strains can achieve 30%, and most crosses, when grown under perfect indoor hydroponic conditions, achieve 20-25%. By comparison, brick weed has about 2-5%.
As for the on-topic part of your post, I completely agree. :)
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This might backfire, too (Score:5, Insightful)
When people start to realize that these "gurus" won't help them with their problems, they will get more irritated than with the usual clueless Best Buy salesdrones. After all, what do you expect a guru to do? Answer questions!
So they will either have to figure out some kind of transition to make those gurus available for tech support (which of course means a lot more training), or end up doing more damage than good.
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Re:This might backfire, too (Score:5, Insightful)
My thought exactly. Either Microsoft is more ass-backwards than I had previously thought, or they simply don't understand how to compete on the same plane. Apple has plenty of people walking the sales floor answering questions and doing actual sales work, but so does Best Buy. Aside from generally needing less support in the first place, part of that Apple Store Experience is seeing that help desk and seeing that there's a physical presence where you can get any problems solved (or at least assessed, when it comes to hardware repair and such).
The last thing that would make me buy Vista is more people pitching the damn thing to me. I don't hate it, but knowing that I could bring the machine in to have someone actually look at it and not have to fail at diagnosing it over the phone from India would be a HUGE selling point for most people. Not the geeks of Slashdot for the most part, but at least for the majority of those who have attempted to use phone support.
Customer service-oriented companies are destined to succeed when their competitors are only sales-oriented. Apple creates a positive experience* by trying to start you off well and ensure that you're taken care of if problems are encountered. This is rarely if ever the case with Microsoft and the hardware companies that bundle its software. They treat customer support as a cost of doing business rather than a value-add for customers, and it always shows. That may work once, but it sure as hell doesn't generate repeat customers, let alone all of the free word-of-mouth advertising that Apple gets these days.
*I've had plenty of issues with my MBP, but they've all been hardware-related except for one odd corrupted plist file that took them all of five minutes to fix, unlike all of the software problems on my Windows-based systems. They actually worked to fix the problems. Except for when I had a CD burner die in a Dell back in 2002 or so, I've never witnessed this with MS-based vendors as a consumer.
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Re:This might backfire, too (Score:5, Insightful)
The last thing that would make me buy Vista is more people pitching the damn thing to me. I don't hate it, but knowing that I could bring the machine in to have someone actually look at it and not have to fail at diagnosing it over the phone from India would be a HUGE selling point for most people. Not the geeks of Slashdot for the most part, but at least for the majority of those who have attempted to use phone support.
Where you hit a bit of a problem, though, is that Microsoft is just providing the OEM software, and other people provide the hardware. Even if Microsoft wanted to provide tech support like this, what do they do when it's a hardware/driver problem?
So there's an advantage that Apple has by selling an integrated hardware/software platform. It allows them to provide a better experience and provide better support. At least in theory.
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Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog (Score:5, Funny)
19. All positions require the successful completion of a thorough background check and multiple-panel drug test prior to the start of your employment.
I think you're reading this requirement wrong. "Successful completion" of a multi-panel drug test means that you need to show proof that you are actually taking some sort of mind-altering drug or they won't allow you to work for them. The reason for this is simple: Being willing to work as a Windows Vista evangelist without being under the influence of narcotics is a sure sign of dangerous mental illness.
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Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog (Score:5, Funny)
The reason for this is simple: Being willing to work as a Windows Vista evangelist without being under the influence of narcotics is a sure sign of dangerous mental illness.
$20 an hour or more, plus benefits? That's awesome for a job that doesn't seem to require much in the way of education or experience. I've never even used Vista and I'm tempted to apply 'cause it requires less effort and pays better than my on campus research/tutoring gigs.
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Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog (Score:5, Funny)
Sure you can
"With Vista, you will find yourself working harder than you ever have before"
"I cannot recommend vista too highly"
"I am pleased to say I am a former user of vista"
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Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog (Score:5, Funny)
None of this has anything to do with actual software. It has to do with image. Strung out felons tend to not help create a good image.
Yeah. Stoners are bad publicity [wikipedia.org].
Parent
Anyone named Bruno instantly hired (Score:5, Funny)
Oh my God, does this sound ominous. Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".
Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired (Score:5, Insightful)
FTA: The good thing is that Microsoft will be able to get Windows explained appropriately on the sales floor. Oh my God, does this sound ominous. Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".
It's Windows we're talking about here; not OSX.
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Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired (Score:5, Funny)
FTA: The good thing is that Microsoft will be able to get Windows explained appropriately on the sales floor. Oh my God, does this sound ominous. Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".
It's Windows we're talking about here; not OSX.
Precisely, if it was OS X it would be the customers taking the employee outback, not the company rep.
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Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired (Score:4, Funny)
Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".
"This sucks - avoid it" is appropriate, although perhaps not what they intended.
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Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired (Score:5, Funny)
Slashdotters - give 'em hell. Here are a few questions to ask:
"Where can I get that Linux thing that everybody's talking about?"
"What's the point of those stupid commercials we keep seeing? It's like Bill Gates has money and likes to mock us."
"Do windows PCs suck as much as the Mac ads say they do? I want to be cool, not old and dumb."
"Why did Windows Vista fuck my wife? I heard it also eats babies and starts wars with defenseless countries."
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Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired (Score:5, Insightful)
with linux i find that support often takes a while (especially IRC) but aslong as im friendly ive only had 1 problem (some idiot insiting everything was flash's fault) hell yesterday i actually got help from the developer of my webcam driver. the key is not to pretend that linux owes you something.
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Guru? Not really ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Only people in marketing could come up with the term "guru" to mean "someone who can't help, and exists to market to you until you give in".
And Microsoft misses one of the myriad small points in why Apple is seen positively by so many people despite having software release management run by a Crurotarsan.
Re:Guru? Not really ... (Score:5, Funny)
OK guys, let's help:
Windows Warriors?
Vista Vultures?
Ballmer's Boys?
Hardy Heron?
Parent
Re:Guru? Not really ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet the article points out that the purpose of the gurus is NOT to hand-hold with respect to fixing problems, or even selecting the most appropriate product. Rather, it is to convince the customer to buy a Vista computer. This isn't a "softer" approach: it is another avenue for them to continue their usual (monopolistic?) tactics.
I worry about this because most in-store customers will assume that the "gurus" are providing sound technical advice, but instead they are just trying to get them to buy something. The same could be said of the other store employees, I suppose; but in this case instead of steering the customer towards buying *something*, they will invariably steer the customer towards Vista. Regardless of whether or not it is the right choice for them.
I can see this causing headaches for the stores as well. When a customer seeks out an employee for help, they are typically not aware of the distinction between different departments. Customers may become frustrated when they ask a "guru" for help but said employee can't help them ("I'm looking for a new washer/dryer." "Have you considered this Windows Vista Home Media Center desktop computer?" "WTF?")
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Think "backlash". (Score:5, Insightful)
What happens when the customer comes back NEXT weekend and tries to get the "guru" that gave him the advice to buy the Vista box?
Okay, grab a different "guru". Why can't you answer my question? The other guy said that it WOULD work.
It's not going to take many episodes like that before this becomes a disaster for them.
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Re:Guru? Not really ... (Score:5, Funny)
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No Return Beyond Customer Satisfaction??? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, knock me over with a feather!
Cue the villagers (Score:5, Funny)
More like villagers with torches and pitchforks.
Apply here? (Score:5, Funny)
Vista Sala (Score:4, Funny)
Given the commercials, I think it would be more appropriate for them to wander around Foot Locker...
Um, Since When Did BB/CC sell non-windows? (Score:5, Funny)
Can I apply??
Re:Um, Since When Did BB/CC sell non-windows? (Score:5, Informative)
Best Buy has sold Macs for quite some time. The new-ish BB store not far from me has a small but reasonably nice Apple section.
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Re:Um, Since When Did BB/CC sell non-windows? (Score:5, Interesting)
That being said, I go to the Apple Store that's a little further out of the way on some occasions. I usually get greeted and asked if I'm looking for anything specific. I'll say I'm just looking around, and they smile politely and let me browse.
Now, the "Genius" they have in the Best Buy Apple Section is more in line of the Windows Guru seems to be, a salesman. I walked into that section and she was absolutely relentless. She asked if I could help, I said I'm just looking. She asked what I was looking for, and I said I was just browsing various things I might need in the future. She asked what I do with the computer, and I told her I do some graphics and web design, and I was just checking out some NAS options. Then she starts pitching
Now I always go to the Apple Store when I need to buy things for my Mac. If the Windows Gurus will be anything like the Best Buy Mac Fanatics, they won't last long.
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Guru meditation (Score:5, Funny)
Vista = Customer Satisfaction? (Score:5, Insightful)
Best Buy + Windows Guru = Apple Store Experience? (Score:5, Funny)
I think I speak for us all when I say...
No.
Re:Best Buy + Windows Guru = Apple Store Experienc (Score:5, Funny)
And the products would, you know, not suck.
-dZ.
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Best Buy + Some Guy != Apple Store (Score:5, Insightful)
Until Microsoft opens their own shops and controls their own hardware OEM, they can't quite duplicate the same experience that Apple has at their stores. They only thing they can do is create propoganda in a controlled environment. And Apple already has retail people and retail sections in Bestbuy locations so these MS people are going to have to compete on their turf; Apple people don't compete with anyone in their stores.
Some Questions To Ask (Score:5, Funny)
"I'm really interested in Vista, but I can't afford it. Are there any cheaper alternatives?"
"Hey, can I still use X feature of Vista if I downgrade to XP? Why not?"
"Quick question -- when is the next operating system after Vista coming out? I'm really excited about that one. No, I don't know anything about it yet..."
"How does Vista compare to non-Windows operating systems?" (Open ended, should provide some laughs)
"If Vista is so good, why are you being $20/hour to stand around and tell me how good it is?"
Re:Some Questions To Ask (Score:5, Insightful)
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So, propaganda then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to be overly cynical, but this sounds like paying a bunch of people to walk around and try to convince the user that the experience won't suck, has never sucked, and that I'm merely deluded.
I mean, how much of it will be true, and how much of it will simply sound like a sales pitch from someone who drank the Kool Aid?
Man, shopping in most electronics stores is annoying enough -- having some git wandering around stumping for Windows Vista is just one more nuisance to avoid. If I'm standing there looking at a PC, and after I've shooed the salesman away, I don't want to then have to deal with some MS shill.
Hearing that they won't actually be useful sources of information for existing customers only re-affirms my cynicism about this program.
Cheers
Good luck with that (Score:5, Funny)
they are not intended to be sources of free technical support for existing Vista users
Until the people they convinced to buy Vista come back to the store in a black fart of rage looking for blood or someone to kidnap until their machine works like it did before.
Good. Freaking. Luck.
Re:Good luck with that (Score:5, Funny)
Until the people they convinced to buy Vista come back to the store in a black fart of rage
Either you mistyped "fit" or you have some seriously unpleasant anger issues.
Parent
Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
The apple stores centers around 3 things
1) The Genius
2) An army of employees running around to help people
3) A non intimidating open and easy to navigate store
Everything they do hight lights those two things, because they can do your credit card purchase remotely they can spend more time helping people decide. They reserve so much of the store for their training sessions and demo units that the Apple store does not feel like a big box store. I don't have to work my was past cameras, dvd's, home appliances, and video games to get to the computers.
The apple gurus are *not* sales folks and I have had them send me other places rather than buy an over priced adapter (ironically they sent me to best buy) meanwhile the 'The (Microsoft) Guru role is to help sell Windows-based PCs'. Yea thats what MS need more sales pressure at best buy...
Don't bother trying to solve problems... (Score:5, Insightful)
"as this has no financial return beyond improved customer satisfaction"
This just says it all about the entire Microsoft experience.
Who comes up with this crap? (Score:5, Funny)
[Enter PC and Mac. Each of them has a friend.]
Mac, "Hey PC, who is your friend?"
PC, "This is my [Microsoft store tool]. She's here to tell everyone how great Vista is. I see you have a friend. What does he do?"
Mac, "This is my genius. He helps everyone USE their Apple and answers any technical questions that they may have. PC, does your friend answer technical questions? Does your friend do anything other than try to convince people to spend money on a product and then leave them out in the cold when they have questions about it? Huh? Does he? Or is he just another over paid, worthless, Microsoft marketing..."
PC, "Shut up Mac!"
Oh Boy, a Living, Breathing "Clippy" (Score:5, Funny)
Just what MS needed....
Re:Sales Experience (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see why he was upset.
Parent
Re:Sales Experience (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand your story. Why would you have to buy a warranty to cover a failure 5 months after purchase? Wouldn't the original manufacturer's warranty cover it?
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Re:Sales Experience (Score:5, Funny)
I'd be livid if something I bought for $500 broke after only 5 months use, and if I then found out that because I was living in a country with barely any consumer rights I had no way to get this sorted out in a fair manner. I'd rip someone's guts out if they were in any way associated with that purchase.
You have a reasonable expectation at purchase that the goods will last a certain minimum amount of time.
(Empaasis added)
Do you also feel that one should have reasonable expectations about what scenarios will lead to having one's guts ripped out?
A: I'd like to return this $500 device which broke after only 5 months use.
B: Did you purchase the extended warranty?
A: No.
B: Sorry, the basic warranty only lets you return the product within 30 days of purchase.
A: I am livid for having found out that I live in a country with barely any consumer rights.
B: Hey, I hear you man. I'm actually a member of several consumer's rights groups, and have written quite a few letters to my political representatives.
A: I am going to rip your guts out, since you are associated with the purchase.
B: What? Are you serious? Hey, man, look, I'm just a poor college kid. I only got $20 bucks on me; but if you let me call my parents, I can try to get $500 bucks. I'll pay you out of my own pocket if it'll mean you won't kill me.
A: Rip. Guts. Out. Anyone associated.
B: Aaaaiiieeeee!
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Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations (Score:5, Funny)
So does the $20/hr include danger pay?
Danger pay is covered, but they don't reimburse you for the cost of your soul unfortunately.
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Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations (Score:5, Informative)
Do people actually get out of bed for $20 an hour?
The median household income [wikipedia.org] per resident in the U.S. is $26,036, which works out about $12.50 per hour per person for a 40 hour week.
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Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations (Score:5, Insightful)
41,000 a year for a job with a low entry skill is "not bad"? Are you serious? It's 5k above the national average wage.
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