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Google Wants You To Be Its Unpaid Muse
Posted by
timothy
on Fri Jan 02, 2009 08:10 AM
from the voluntary-grindstone-for-nose-skinning dept.
from the voluntary-grindstone-for-nose-skinning dept.
theodp writes "So where do you turn to for great ideas when tough times force you to abort your engineers' brainchildren? If you're Google, reports Nicholas Carlson, you simply outsource brainstorming to your users. Google's launched a new Google Product Ideas blog as well as a Product Ideas for Google Mobile site where users can submit feature and product ideas and vote on others. So what's in it for you if you come up with Google's next billion-dollar-idea? 'If you post an idea or suggestion and we put it into action, we may give you a shout out on our Product Ideas blog,' explains Google, 'but we won't be compensating users for their ideas.' Lucky thing don't-be-evil Googlers don't have to live up to the IEEE Code of Ethics, or they might have to credit properly the contributions of others." So what's wrong with a shout out among consenting adults?
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Don't want Google to steal your ideas? (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot should pay me! (Score:5, Insightful)
I am really getting tired of this
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What meme? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, there are enough people with this point of view who will never be satisfied. It's almost akin to a conspiracy theory in that if things were made completely transparent and all the facts and evidence were laid out, some people would still maintain that a complete lack of any evidence of evilness or wrongdoing just proves that the organization is hiding something and really is evil.
Google probably isn't evil, but that doesn't mean that they're saints either. There's a pretty large gray area between the two where most people, companies, and organizations tend to operate. Some people, for whatever reason, tend to blur these shades of gray into either black or white. Then again, "Google does some things that I don't like or agree with, but on the whole I find them to be a pretty good company," doesn't generate as many comments or page hits.
Parent
Re:What meme? (Score:5, Insightful)
To say it is the truth that something is evil just because you don't have 100% access to information proving it is paranoid, as it is defining everything you don't know everything about as evil.
You said they were evil, if that isn't what you meant retract it and state what you did mean. If you did then don't obfuscate the issue with irrelevant things you didn't call them ;)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You must not be Christian. After all, aren't we all sinners in the eyes of the Lord? Google, being formed of many many people, must therefore be full of sin. Sin is evil. If Google is full of sin, then it must be full of evil.
Therefore, Google is evil.
And so am I... ;)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You don't understand. It's not that Google is evil. It's that they're run by space aliens and unicorns. And until you can prove otherwise, it's a fact!
Re:Slashdot should pay me! (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondly you don't what they'll actually do to compensate you. My guess is they would do more than you think but saying so ensure you'll get every moron and their family suggesting anything and everything and it will turn into a legal mess.
It's same reason developers won't take unsolicited ideas from people. Most good ideas will be thought up by more than one person. So if Google were to pay for ideas and Person A gets picked but Person B gave a very similar suggestion then he'll get pissed off and want his compensation.
Or, you suggest something which, it just happens that Google has been working on for 6 months already. They don't give you the money because it's already 80% done. They release it you get hacked off and sue them.
As it is if they forget to give a shout out to someone with a similar suggestion what's the worse that happens, they list their name too?
You can almost certainly guarantee that if you really do have a load of good ideas they'll want to do something to make sure they stay with them and no other company and you could end up with a job there or something.
But the odds are still likely that most suggestions will have been suggested by hundreds, if not thousands of others so it becomes more of a voting system on what people want rather than you giving them the holy grail of internet business.
Parent
OR (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't want Google to steal your ideas? (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, do. I would LOVE if every service provider gave me a place to voice my opinion on how they can improve their service without me having to have the expertise to actually execute the idea.
An idea is just that: an idea. It's not a product, it's not a service, it's not even the result of a great deal of work. There are a lot of things I'd like to see companies do that I can't begin to make money off of, but I think they could and I would benefit from them. I don't care if they profit off my ideas, my gain is that they are doing what I want.
Leave it to Slashdot users to find a way to negatively spin it when a company goes to great lengths to give their consumers a voice.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you think that you have an idea that is worth money to Google, then don't use the ideabox. Go negotiate with Google directly. Patent it (Ugh). Sell it to Yahoo. Start your own company & exploit it. Don't expect anyone else to feel sorry for you because you're jealous but can't think of a way to sponge off of google's wealth.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No. Some start because they seemed like fun to do. Some start because of a simple code fork for something that appeared to be minor, but turned out not to be. Some start as demonstration projects. Some start as academic proof of concept, no initial business intent at all. Some are intended from day one to be public domain, and some are intended to be free to anyone *but* commercial enterprises, unless the commercial
The Gift Economy.* (Score:3, Insightful)
"So what's wrong with a shout out among consenting adults? "
For those who envision the domination of a gift economy. Now's your chance to make it happen. First software, now ideas.
*Aka "ideas want to be free".
Re:The Gift Economy.* (Score:4, Insightful)
"So what's wrong with a shout out among consenting adults? "
For those who envision the domination of a gift economy. Now's your chance to make it happen. First software, now ideas.
*Aka "ideas want to be free".
I think I preferred the old economy where we sold our skills to billion dollar companies.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
ah, but at least with software the GPL forces derived products to still be free, if you gift an idea to Google, they get to keep it as if it was theirs all along.
I wonder if the T&C of the product idea site says you have to cede copyright and any patents to them?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Too bad not everyone plays their fair part in the gift economy. Instead, there's a very high likelihood, that Google can just take the ideas that are submitted, and implement them without providing any reward to the submitter.
Even if there's some EULA/Contract/legal stuff that Google provides at first, good luck taking them to court and winning against this multi-billion dollar corporation.
There's also the problem of providing relevant ideas. In a public forum listing ideas, there maybe many very good one
Re:The Gift Economy.* (Score:5, Insightful)
All too often, we are brought up on the perspective that the "killer" idea is more important than the execution. It's like some type of get-rich-quick scheme for thinkers. This is one area where the patent system used to work, only granting patents on working models are specific implementations - nowadays it's the "killer idea" which some corp or troll patents, sits on it, and waits for someone else to do the work. Truly novel or killer ideas are uncommon - great execution is more important. I would say that Apple's iPods and iPhone are a testament to this. Not one super novel idea in itself, but a slew of good compromises and vision to see it through. Good execution.
I don't think society progresses far when people hoarde their ideas in the mistaken beliefs that it's all gold (rather than the 99.999% fool's gold that they are) or actually more novel than it really is and not collaborating with anyone. I would look to Paul Erdos as the ultimate example of intellectual collaboration.
The problem is that ideas that seem good are plenty. It's like blades of grass. The problem is getting yours to stick out, so that the corporation actually picks your and pours their resources into executing it. I would imagine it's a good feeling if something actually came out of it.
*Note, I'm talking ideas, not some specific design.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Um, yeah, he pretty much does. At least all of his more recent ones.
All of the terms are put clearly (Score:4, Insightful)
How could this be illegitimate, if it does not intend to hide or mislead Google's intentions?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That is irrelevant. What's relevant is that Walmart have every right to do so if they fully enclose that they take the ideas without any compensation.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Google at least lays out all the terms and let you decide what to do. Most other suggestion methods say nothing and if they use your idea you don't even get a "shout out" so all Google has done was take an old idea and made it more open. If you don't like
There's nothing wrong with it (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, all the ideas are out in the open for everyone to see, so any competitor is free to implement them as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I've got several ideas for Microsoft.
They can implement those and I won't ask for a penny.
(I have several others that are quite unprintable).
It also (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The difference here being that with Microsoft you have to pay, but then you don't have anything nice to say about it. Whereas Google is free, and mostly doesn't suck.
How is that different than /.? (Score:5, Insightful)
Other people create the articles, we create the original content that draw people to this site. People love having a soapbox where they think others will listen to their ideas. So I don't understand the tone of the summary.
OTOH, years ago, people working at Nintendo (USA) told me that when they recieved letters, they put them in the trash as soon as it became apparent it was an "idea" letter for a game. They didn't want the liability. How is google going to curb this aspect?
Re:How is that different than /.? (Score:5, Informative)
OTOH, years ago, people working at Nintendo (USA) told me that when they recieved letters, they put them in the trash as soon as it became apparent it was an "idea" letter for a game. They didn't want the liability. How is google going to curb this aspect?
The letters to Nintendo were unsolicited. Google requires you to agree to their TOS [google.com] before you can post an idea.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This licence is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.
Re: (Score:2)
They have billions of dollars, random letter writers typically don't. That's how.
They could make your idea real... for free (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to mention, just being credited with coming up with Google's next big thing is enough to almost certainly land you a well paid job for life somewhere.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to mention, just being credited with coming up with Google's next big thing is enough to almost certainly land you a well paid job for life somewhere.
Yeah, good luck with that one on your resume.
"I came up with the idea for Google's 'Whatchawhoozit' module that has revolutionized the industry. Um, they didn't give me any credit for it or anything but trust me I did submit it through their idea portal."
Alternatively, "I came up with the idea for Google's 'Whatchawhoozit' module that has revolutionized the industry. If you go into Help, About, Credits, Contributers, North America, Submitters and increase the font you'll see me. Right there! Yes, I'm th
"Unpaid Muse" (Score:5, Funny)
As I keep telling our sales people, there is something of a gulf between having an idea and actually implementing it. Also, an invention is supposed to solve a problem, not just to state it. I may think it is a good idea to find a way of checking the extent to which bears poo in the woods, but when someone patents the improved device and process for facilitating mensuration and analysis of the sylvan/urban mass ratio of ursine faeces, I really shouldn't expect to profit.
I think you don't understand yourself (Score:3, Interesting)
First, I was commenting on the "unpaid muse". The Muses, the ennead, were daughters of Zeus and so, of course, they didn't get paid. Which was the basis of my (feeble) joke, but was making the serious point that the original idea (inspiration) was attributed to them, while human beings did all the work.
Second, your point about drama, even if correct, is badly made because I did not include the Muse of Drama in my list, as I was making a joke about the RIAA. My point
Comment witheld (Score:2, Funny)
Apples to Apples (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Apples to Apples (Score:4, Insightful)
Probably due to perception of result.
When Canonical/Ubuntu takes an idea and runs with it, odds are good that everyone benefits, and the results are freely shared without any real encumbrance or price.
When a for-profit company takes an idea and runs with it, odds are better than good that everyone will have to pay for the privilege of reaping the benefits, and a patent or two will prevent anyone else from implementing it for at least the next 25 years.
Not that I'm taking sides (after all, Google's idea-gathering is voluntary), but that's how it usually shakes out.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What's the big deal? (Score:2)
Isn't this the same as Dell's Idea Storm and Ubuntu's Brain Storm?
Garbage (Score:5, Insightful)
The article mentions that Google won't be compensating submitters, then quotes like holy writ the IEEE code of conduct which mentions crediting them.
Last time I looked, those words weren't synonyms.
Wow, a feedback blog, what a concept! (Score:2)
Read as: "We've got tons of talented engineers... (Score:3, Insightful)
...with absolutely f*** all to do right now as we only have one real product, search, and we're hesitant to make big changes to it... Please give us the ideas we obviously cannot think up on our own so we can give these guys/gals something to do because bored smart people tend to leave no matter how good the bennies are." ;)
Against the IEEE Code of Ethics? Huh? (Score:2)
The ethics code requires contributions by others to be "properly credited." It by no means requires the contributors to be paid (unless of course pay was promised.) Also, if credit is explicitly not promised (as in this case), failing to credit is not against the code.
SirWired
GASP! (Score:4, Funny)
My God, how far can this go? Google has the audacity to listen to its customer and actually use the better ideas?
Wait, what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. It'd be a step towards MS giving me the kind of products I want. Which right now, they don't.