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Israel, Palestine Wage Web War
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Jan 06, 2009 02:45 PM
from the spilling-over dept.
from the spilling-over dept.
An anonymous reader writes "A war has erupted on the Internet between Israel and Palestine, alongside the war being fought on the ground in Gaza. A new report claims that a group called the 'DNS Team' has defaced an Israeli Website, with anti-Israel graphical images — one in a series of instances of 'e-vandalism.' This sort of e-vandalism, says the author, is not only an inconvenience for Webmasters, but many of the images contain malware links and 'redirects or Flash links to Jihadist forums or blogs.' However, while the Jihadist forums are registered in Saudi Arabia, they are hosted by companies like Layered Tech and SoftLayer in Plano, Texas. On the Israeli side, 'A fascinating approach over the last few days is being made by an Israeli Website, "Help Israel Win," which provides a download so your PC can become part of a worldwide pro-Israeli botnet. So far 7,786 have joined, already a fairly powerful global computing force...'"
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Submission: Israel, Palestine Wage Web War by Anonymous Coward
[+]
Gaza Debate Goes Virtual 644 comments
Ian Lamont writes "The war of words over the conflict in Gaza has moved from the real world to the Internet. Besides a furious stream of mini-debates on Twitter between supporters of and critics of Israel's military actions, there have also been demonstrations in Second Life at an Israel-themed sim and a collection of Facebook applications, including 'QassamCount' and 'Stop Israel's war crimes in Gaza.' Another project — 'mapping the war in Gaza' — was launched by Al Jazeera and takes user-submitted reports, tweets, and Microsoft Virtual Earth to track the number of casualties and other developments."
In addition to this, the series of website defacements we discussed a few days ago has now extended to sites controlled by NATO and the US Army.
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Oh boy... (Score:5, Funny)
In before shitstorm.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Funny)
Naw, this conversation about the Middle East will be totally different from the last three or four we've had. Mark my works: Peace will break out in the Middle East and it will eventually be traced back to this one slashdot discussion ;)
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Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, a Carthaginian Peace.
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Not to worry! (Score:5, Funny)
The Palestinian hackers blew themselves up after they hacked in to the Israeli website. Old habits die hard...
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This just in (Score:5, Funny)
A fatwa has been issued, calling for the immediate murder of "Anonymous coward."
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Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
I wished this sort of crap would stop.
I'll be the first to say that I dislike the entire notion of the US supporting Israel. Israel never needed to be created and certainly doesn't need the U.S.'s help to exist -- if it should exist, it would exist under its own power. But with all that said, it doesn't mean "I hate Jews."
I know a lot of Jewish people and every single one of them have one thing in common -- they are not all the same!! Some think supporting Israel is important, some do not. Some will have a ham sandwich for lunch with you and some will not. Your own cultural and/or ethnic identity, whatever is may be, is not of "one mind" so why does anyone else expect this to be true of Jews? The same goes for anyone who thinks the people of the U.S. are just like Bush?
I say down with Judaism. I also say down with Christianity, Islam and every religion -- especially those that believe in invisible beings that created us and tell us how to live our lives. The evidence for Zeus is every bit as valid as the evidence for "God." Why do people have to believe in stupid stuff like that anyway?
There will always be reasons and excuses for one person to want to kill another. We don't need religion for that. But when religion becomes involved as a motivating factor, suddenly the problem becomes a LOT bigger, bloodier and more dangerous. So down with all of it I say... or... let them all kill themselves and leave us out of it.
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Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't need religion for that. But when religion becomes involved as a motivating factor, suddenly the problem becomes a LOT bigger, bloodier and more dangerous. So down with all of it I say... or... let them all kill themselves and leave us out of it.
Right because Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot didn't really kill all that many people compared to say the Spanish Inquisition.
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Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're going to lump all the non-religious movements together, then you should do the same with the groups acting in support of some religious cause. Looking at it from that perspective, atheism per se has led to far less violence than religion.
Otherwise, if you want to classify the groups based on their actual motivation, then you should only count those who were killed in the name of atheism, or because of their non-atheistic beliefs. Political and social movements that just happen to have atheistic leaders should be grouped separately based on their goals. Again, the movements supporting specific religious beliefs and personality cults tend to dominate when it comes to violence, compared those populated by freethinkers.
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Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
It's certainly true that some atheists take a more positive view and assert that a god or gods cannot or do not exist. But at its root, atheism does not require this assertion -- simply not having a belief is sufficient to be classified as atheist.
This gets twisted around a lot in theological arguments; the atheist will sit back and sneer that the theist is the one making the assertion ("A god exists.") and is therefore carrying the burden of proof. The theist will counter that the atheist is also making an assertion ("A god does not exist.") and is thus just as burdened to prove his claim as the theist.
The reason theists like this argument so much is because they realise that they carry some burden of proof, because they acknowledge they are making an assertion about the nature of reality. Yet they also find it difficult to present any objective evidence to back their claim. This puts the atheist at an advantage, until the theist uses the above argument. Suddenly the atheist is faced with an impossible situation -- how do you prove something doesn't exist, especially when the something in question is a god?
No matter what the atheist says, the theist can claim that the god somehow manipulated the observation or outcome. And thus, the theist has now placed himself on superior ground in the debate, for while the theist may be able to dredge up a few interesting things the atheist can't explain, there is nothing the atheist can say which cannot immediately be explained away by the theist as some whim of the deity.
It is disingenuous at best and intellectually dishonest at worst to consider both of these stances equal in terms of burden of proof. There are people who genuinely believe that Reptilians from other planets walk among us and have infiltrated the highest levels of our governments. Should you encounter such a person, I suggest you don't engage them in dialogue, but if you did, you might ask what their proof is. Would you feel it fair if the Reptile Believer countered that you should have to prove there aren't Reptilians? Do you consider yourself some sort of active disbeliever in Reptilians, or just someone without even a passing interest on the topic?
I'm not trying to say which side is correct here, as both can make compelling arguments, but clouding the issue with incorrect definitions does nothing to advance the debate.
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Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
And what ... exactly ... is the alternative ? Here's the demand of hamas. Note that it's a repeat of an islamic "holy" text :
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
This is the constitution of hamas. The constitution every Gazan lives under. The constitution over 70% of Gazans have willingly accepted.
What, exactly, is your response to a statement like this, backed up with rockets ? Do tell what the alternative course of action is for israel.
And don't say "talking". They've been "talking" since 1948. Talking is something hamas only does when they're losing the war, and they never keep their promises. In fact since 1948 it's progressively gotten worse for Israel. Right now there are constant attacks on Israeli citizens. EVERY SINGLE DAY rockets rain down on sderot and other Israeli cities.
"Putting the parties down to talk it out" is dependant on there not being ANY group ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD that will not talk. If there is even one such group, no matter how small, that controls a state or even a city, the policy of "talking" is doomed. It can only work between civilized people. What do civilized people do ? First and foremost, they are true to their word.
Just because the overwhelming majority of Americans are reasonable people, true to their words, does not mean that every last human is reasonable. Just read the comments in this story made by muslims and my point will be amply supported.
Hamas does not keep to treaties. Nor does any other neighbour of Israel. The only muslim country that has EVER shown to keep to international treaties when under the slightest bit of pressure is Turkey, and that era in Turkey is coming to an end.
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Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
However, the US *can* lower the death toll by not pouring high-tech weaponry into Israel.
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Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
Until the security fence went up, thousands of people in Israel were killed by suicide bombs over the past ten years. This week is lopsided only if you ignore history.
And it's not a question of money. The Pals get plenty of cash grants from the U.N. and Saudi Arabia. They're not "desperate poor", they're one big welfare state. Heck, back in the day, Saddam Hussein was giving about $16,000 to each family of a successful suicide bomber. If Hamas weren't running Gaza, they would be trading with Israel and the world and actually making some money.
It's not a question of religion. There are over 5 million Jews in Israel but also over 2 million Muslims and quite a few Christians--all living together in peace. The Muslims have representation in government and the only difference is that they don't serve in the military (except for the Beduins).
It's more a question of land. The Pals want it, the Israelis won't give it, end of story.
Now what makes the situation more explosive is that the Iranians are exploiting the local Arabs to set up a military forward base in Gaza. They have taken Hamas fighters to Iran to train them in guerrilla tactics and missile tech. They are trying to duplicate their success with Hezbollah.
That is what this current fight is about--it's really Israel versus Iran, and you'll notice the local Arab governments have been unusually subdued. None of them wants Iran to gain another foothold in their back yard, and while they publicly condemn Israel as do the "useful idiots" in Europe, behind closed doors they are egging the Israelis on.
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Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also lopsided if you reject the infantile reasoning that past deaths justify future murders.
A modern military force aggressively and methodically assaulting a primarily civilian region outside its national borders containing a few militias armed with crude explosives and rocks looks pretty lopsided to most rational people.
Israel is clearly violating the firm international law against collective punishment. It is killing and intimidating an entire population to punish it for the crimes of a few. If you think that this type of behaviour is acceptable, then I presume you also think that September 11 was acceptable insofar as the US has not exactly been an angel in its activities in the Middle East and therefore it was acceptable for a group from that region to exact revenge on defenceless US civilians? No? How odd.
Your comments about the Palestine being a "welfare state" also ignore the principal causes of that, namely Israel's control over passage into and out of Palestine and Israel's seizure of large sections of useful land within Palestine. Most countries would probably be welfare states under such circumstances. Your comments about aid are also laughable given that Israel is the world's largest recipient of foreign aid.
Until Israel removes all illegal settlements and withdraws to its original borders, it will not have the moral high ground in this debate. If it does that and is subsequently attacked, then it will have my full sympathy and will be justified in limited and properly targeted retaliation.
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Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
I've noticed the American media is very consistent in using loaded, incorrect terminology to imply that Hammas "started it," while Israel is simply "retaliating." The simple truth is, it's a cycle of violence with no traceable origin (at least none that is still relevant). The side most to blame is the side quickest to escalate the existing cycle of violence. Factions in both sides have the will to inflict 100-1 casualties on the other, but only one side has the (US-supplied) means to accomplish this. But we have given Israel the power, without the responsibility. Americans must start taking responsibility for what our bombs are doing over there. But I doubt anything will change until a significant number of Arabs immigrate to the US.
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Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7799593.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Israel killed several Hamas members, Hamas responded with rockets, Israel responded with airstrikes and an invasion. This seems to be the same tactic Israel has been using for thirty years:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-akins.html [ifamericansknew.org]
There have also been talks of the US selling the Israelis our C-RAM (Counter - Rocket, Artillery and Mortar) systems (based on the naval Phalanx CIWS). It would take one to two dozen of them (Depending on if you wanted redundant backups) to completely cover the Gaza strip, from the outside. This would allow Israeli to intercept rockets, artillery and mortars before they ever leave Palestinian airspace.
I find it a tad interesting that a few months before Israel gets near immunity to rocket attacks, they get 'fed up' and invade.
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Why is this News? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why is this News? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a natural extension of war now-a-days. This is akin to saying, "Soldiers Now Using Bullets in War".
If the dominant hand-held projectile weapon were still the musket, or people just still believed that, then yes, it would be news!
Anyway you may be interested in knowing that not but 5 months before, in the Russia/Georgia war the previous August, exactly the same thing was going on [slate.com] and an intrepid Slate reporter got involved in downloading botnet software from pro-Russian hackers.
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Reality check people (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Reality check people (Score:5, Interesting)
The "hacking" part is a distraction from the important part of this story: A massive propaganda war. And the outcome of that propaganda war could be as significant to the outcome of the conflict as the bombs. Even if it just makes either side shy away from targeting civilians, it's still hugely important.
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Re:Reality check people (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I get quite a bit of my news from outside the US. Al Jazeera [aljazeera.net] does a good deal of reporting in the area and they have a pretty neutral tone. The BBC is reporting pretty much the same as I have claimed and most of the other foreign press that have English sites that I have seen do the same.
Anyways, if you think Palestine is getting their message out, I would argue that they have been for a while. [youtube.com] It's probably why your sitting there trashing Israel's version right now. Well, not really trashing but raising the point of suspicion. If you follow the plot so far, Israel backed out of Gaza completely pursuant to a cease fire agreement brokered by the Egyptian government. It ended in December around the 19th or so. In october, Hamas start launching mortars and rockets into Israel at a slow pace and Israel attempted to get the elected Palistinian authority to make it stop pursuant to the agreement. This appeared as if it worked then stopped working then worked then stopped again. For a Christmas present, Hamas launched some 30 rockets into Israel which Israel finally responded to taking out a mortar team, killing one and injuring two others. Hamas stepped up it's attacks and Israel went full blown into what we are seeing now. Hamas has closed a checkpoint along the Egyptian border which was has loads of medical aid. Egypt has offered to take critical patients and offered to set up refugee camps for the innocents at the border. Hamas [zimbio.com] has stopped the aid from getting in and stopped the injured from getting out. They have even stopped the innocent civilians from moving to the borders by firing on their own civilians who were fleeing to it. A representative from Hamas attempted to portray it as an unjustified response because there is an election coming in Israel in February 2009. Hamas Claimed it was being attacked so the politicians could manipulate the elections. A reporter asked about this bit of news [ynet.co.il] floating around and the interview ended. I can't find the actually link to the report I originally read.
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Re:Reality check people (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, they don't have the "LAUNCH MISSLES.EXE" in the root folder, but they sure could cause some damage on a military network.
And what is a military network doing being connected to the public Internet?!
Oh wait. They don't actually do that.
*phew*
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If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish all wars were web wars. The papers today said the Isralies killed dozens in a UN school, and that nowhere in Gaza was safe.
Go, web warriers! Go away, bullet and rocket warriors. He who lives by the RPG dies by the RPG.
Re:If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet, amazingly, for all the aerial drones, balloons (yes, balloons) and other visual devices they have, no image of said mortar firing will ever be provided for the public to view. Instead, we're supposed to rely on the word of a military who attacked a U.S. warship in international waters [wikipedia.org], who deliberately rammed and nearly sank a humanitarian aid ship [cnn.com] and who in 2006, destroyed the only power plant in Gaza [boston.com].
I'm all for people retaliating when they are attacked, but to deliberately kill journalists, attack your "friends", deny humanitarian aid to those who need it, attack refugee camps, and a whole list of other offenses, is where I draw the line. You want to shape world opinion to your point of view? Quit playing the victim card and start acting like you learned something from everything that's been done to you.
And since when is someone defending their land from an invader a terrorist? Apparently all those Iraqis who fought against the U.S. invasion were terrorists. Same goes George Washington. Hell, by that standard, Red Dawn [imdb.com] was nothing but a propaganda story about terrorists.
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Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, they posted video of mortars being fired from that school last week. [youtube.com] Was it currently being used? We have no way of knowing, but that's how all intelligence works.
Point being the elected government of Gaza was using a UN non-military building as a base of operations to launch attacks on a civilian populace.
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Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
just to be specific they posted the video last week, however it was shot in Feb/2008.
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Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
er 2007.
that's what I get for trying to be specific.
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What happened? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh, they posted video of mortars being fired from that school last week. Was it currently being used? We have no way of knowing, but that's how all intelligence works.
Point being the elected government of Gaza was using a UN non-military building as a base of operations to launch attacks on a civilian populace.
According to the Israelis what happened was small arms fire coming from the direction of the UN school which in their opinion made it worth firing at. In short, according to the latest news reports, it appears that two Hamas fighters are dead at the cost of some 30+ kids and their care takers being killed as well. The sad thing is that many lives could probably have been saved over the last few days if the Israelis hadn't embargoed all sorts of medical equipment which has been piling up at the border for months. If Israel shot it self in the foot with the invasion and bombardment of Lebanon back in 2006 it is now shooting it self in both feet with this latest raid on Gaza. It is an awsome manifestation of the unshakeable US/Israeli belief that conflicts like this one are best resolved with the lavish over use of firepower but in the long run it won't do anything to end Hamas' resistance efforts. Even if Hamas is "cynically using civilians as a human shield" like the Israelis are claiming it still won't help Israel's cause very much in the long run. All the world will remember is the dead kids. I am no friend of Hamas but no matter how hard you try you won't succeed in making the sheer galactic stupidity of what Israel is currently doing in Gaza sound like a good idea.
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Re:If only... (Score:4, Insightful)
Same goes George Washington
George Washington managed to fight for American independence without blowing up women and children in downtown London.......
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Re:If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
Oh lets not forget that there's a pile of aid sitting at the egypt/gaza border either but hamas won't open it. I mean seriously do a bit of research.
Seriously? I heard that Egypt wouldn't open the Gaza border because they don't want the Palestinians fleeing into Egypt, where they would cease being Israel's problem.
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Combatants (Score:5, Interesting)
Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:4, Interesting)
IMO, it's interesting to note the difference between the two. Israel seems to always have its military act together, beginning with the war it fought right after it got its land [back].
On one side, we have what was termed "e-vandalism." On the other side, we have a very planned strategy to do something, although I don't know what yet.
Just an interesting look into the different ... tactics, if you will.
Disclaimer for contextual reading of this comment: I am pro-Israel, anti-terrorism, and I really do think Israel wants peace and Hamas wants no-live-Jew-on-face-of-earth. This is not an anti-Jew post.
Re:Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
Israel bombs the hell out of them and the Palestinians shoot a few rockets back and deface a couple websites.
It's interesting how the media treats this as well. "Israel retaliates against terrorist rocket attacks." We have situation where an entire group of people is being oppressed by one of the most well-funded militaries on the planet, can barely get their hands on a few rockets to defend themselves, or food to feed themselves, and when Israel breaks the cease-fire agreement the US media is sympathetic to Israel.
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Re:Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
Disclaimer for contextual reading of this comment: I am pro-Israel, anti-terrorism, and I really do think Israel wants peace and Hamas wants no-live-Jew-on-face-of-earth. This is not an anti-Jew post.
I used to think that but then I read some history and started following current events. I now think it's "Israel wants land (which hasn't belonged to them in >2000 years) and Hamas (who represent people that they took it from) wants it back". At one point I think that the majority of Palistinians would have settled for "Just don't take any more." but that has unfortunately passed.
You don't really buy the no-live-jew-on-the-face of-earth line do you? That's a bunch of rhetoric that you too would probably spout were you and your family evicted from your house/land.
Jews and Arabs (and christians for that matter) have lived peacefully together, in that area, for hundreds of years at a time. There's nothing intrinsic in either religion that can't tolerate the existence of the other.
As F$%#@ed up as Hamas is (and I in no way support their tactics), you simply can't move in, displace millions, and expect peace.
I have sympathy for the innocent victims on both sides but Israel as a nation is reaping what it sows.
Sadly, I see no humane solution.
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Re:Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:5, Informative)
If the difference between a legitimate military campaign and terrorism is a plan
No. The difference is a matter of perspective and who controls communication resources.
A suicide bomber is merely a poor country's F-16.
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GIYUS (Score:5, Informative)
theres also GIYUS (im not gonna link) they have 40,000 members regularly trolling on large forums and newspapers such as Guardian regarding any topic about Israel/Palestine
this been going on for long time
Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Funny)
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Free Money (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Start monetized blogs.
2) Copypasta some anti-Israel content.
3) Refer your blogs to giyus.org for listing on Megaphone.
4) Enjoy 15,000+ page impressions per day.
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you forgot... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Informative)
It should be noted that local Israeli media is strongly recommending to stay away from this website and not to download the software it is offering, citing reasons of the illegality of the action and the obvious possibility of your PC being hijacked for other purposes.
Sorry, I couldn't find a link in English.
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3650277,00.html [ynet.co.il]
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Re:Joining a Botnet on purpose? (Score:5, Funny)
You've never installed a Windows-based operating system on one of your machines??
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Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a Jew and definite supporter of Israel, but some of your points are frighteningly mistaken.
"The cancer that is Islam"? Come on. Every religion has it's share of crazy fundamentalist quacks reading too much into parts of their holy literature - currently, the fundamentalists of Islam just happen to be a little more numerous and (considerably) more vocal than those of the other major religions. Look back in time - at one point, Christians had a little thing called the Crusades. Hindus in India have been known to form mobs and beat and kill their Muslim neighbors. As for Jews...well, some might even consider the current crisis an example of fundamentalism, though I vehemently do not.
Which leads me the next point: the fallacy that Jews somehow "don't really care that much about religion". What? Sure, they may not go out and scream "TO THE GLORY OF YWHW" before blowing themselves up in a crowded mosque, but that doesn't mean they don't have an incredible fundamentalist and mainstream religious fervor. Watch people rock back and forth in tears and prayer in front of the Wailing Wall and then tell me Jews in Israel "don't really care that much about religion."
"Haven't done shit since 1000 B.C. when they gave up the last of their rational humanistic thought. Sit on patches of oil and get fat." Oy vey. For one, there are Muslims outside the Arab world. For another, back to point one: stop generalizing. Just because a religion has a few (or even a lot) of nutjobs, doesn't mean that the religion itself is to blame.
The rest of your flamebait suffers the same problem. You say Muslims are savages. It would be more accurate to say some some Muslims are savages. It would be more accurate still to say some people are savages.
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Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a Muslim and my lunch break is almost over so I can't really write as long of a post as I wanted.
I agree that this war needs to stop, Palestinians and Israelies need to sit down and freaking figure out how to not kill 600+ people over a weekend.
The solutions presented by both sides so far are ridiculous:
a) Throw them in the sea (Palestinian solution)
b) Exterminate them (Israeli solution)
Both sides are idiots, hard headed and are in serious need for an adult conversation.
As a side note to the GP regarding extremist Muslims (or as I like to call them douche bags), if they read Quran they'll stop this my god is bigger than your god bull, here's a quote:
Al Baqara (002.136)
Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
P.S.: It's refreshing to see a post like yours on Slashdot :)
Parent
-1, flamebait (Score:4, Insightful)
Such hatred! Gees, no wonder people are dying right and left
Jews: Isreal has the most gender-neutral society in the entire world.
Rank bullshit. perhaps the most gender-neutral in the middle east, I don't think anyone would argue with that, but I think you'll find most European nations (and nations who were settled by Europeans) to be far more gender neutral. In the US, the third in the Presidential sucession is a woman, speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.
IslamoSavages
Flamebait. Grow up, boy.
Jews: Have the right to a homeland
So do the Palestinians.
IslamoSavages: Wish to indoctrinate the world into the cancer known as Islam.
And Bhuddists sish to indoctrinate the world to Bhuddism and Christians (I'm one) want everyone to accept Christ as savior. Your point?
Jews: Act only in self-defense, strike from afar only at those whose fingers are on the trigger or detonator. Collateral damage is accidental.
Israel shells near UN school, killing at least 30 [yahoo.com]
Savages, you say? Seventy dead innocents to kill two soldiers? That's barbaric. Israel should be ashamed of itself, if I was an Israli I'd be at the wailing wall in sackcloth and ashes begging God's forgiveness.
Jews: Don't really care that much about religion.
I see you've not met many Jews. The ones I know are very religious.
Jews: Leading contributors to cutting-edge science and technology.
Gates, Jobs, Torvalds, all Jews? Where do you come up with all this rank bullshit?
Damn it's hard to keep from responding to these damned trolls.
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Re:-1, flamebait (Score:5, Informative)
If 3 men rob a bank, and the SWAT team has to storm it, and innocent people die, do you blame the SWAT team, or the bank robbers?
If the swat team accidentally shoots innocent people, then the swat team is at fault. In fact, courts have backed this up - if you're in a bank, doing legal business, and a cop shoots you while trying to stop a robbery, you're getting your medical bills paid by the city, and if you die your family will win a wrongful death suit.
If a police car smashes into your auto while chasing someone else, the city pays. You can't shoot me in a bank and say it's the bank robbers' fault. It just doesn't work that way.
US soldiers have been court martialed for collateral damage, there were some airmen from here in Springfield who were in pretty deep shit because they accidentally bombed some Canadians in Afghanistan. Nobody blamed the Taliban for the Canadian deaths.
If you're going to shoot, it is your responsibility to hit the target and ONLY the target.
Yes, Hamas are monsters. So are the people they're fighting.
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Re:-1, flamebait (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one of the things that puzzles me. All of the battles launched by the Arabs began with, "We will be victorious and wipe Israel from the map, God willing." And yet they were unsuccessful in 1948 and 1973, and caught off-guard in 1967 when Israel attacked prior to a likely attack by the forces from three Arab nations. Hezbollah and Hamas repeatedly cite their mere survival as God showing them favor (despite the kill ratio of 50:1 or more enjoyed by the Israelis).
I understand the idea that they may perceive these as challenges from God to be overcome, but at some point, someone has to be thinking that maybe these are messages from God telling them that they're not going to win.
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Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Funny)
Joke's on them. Allah is Jewish.
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Re:Idiots (Score:4, Insightful)
*before* the ceasefire ending Hamas fired almost 3000 rockets into Israel. I'd say they broke the ceasefire well before the IDF "provoked" them.
Many others report Israel broke the cease fire [guardian.co.uk] - the bottom line is that both sides have continued to fight. It's a red herring to suggest one side acted in an unprovoked manner - that's simply bogus.
Who shot first is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that Israel has been condemned by the United Nations more than 50 times for refusing to follow various agreed-upon conventions. Israel has been systematically driving the Palestinians off their own land and taking it over. That's a fact. That's not something you can accuse the arabs of doing. If you bulldoze someone's house. If you make them have to pass through armed checkpoints and hostile guards to get to work. If you break their cities into little pieces by building an illegal wall around their settlements, you shouldn't be surprise if some of these people react. The irony is that Israel is slowly committing genocide on the Palestinians and nobody's doing anything about it. The United States is funding the genocide to the tune of $6,000,000,000.00 a year now in an elaborate kickback scheme involving military defense contractors and the US's most powerful lobbying group: AIPAC. There's no motivation for Israel to make peace with its neighbors when war is profitable for them and for the American corporations that aid money gets funneled back to.
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