Israel, Palestine Wage Web War 951
An anonymous reader writes "A war has erupted on the Internet between Israel and Palestine, alongside the war being fought on the ground in Gaza. A new report claims that a group called the 'DNS Team' has defaced an Israeli Website, with anti-Israel graphical images — one in a series of instances of 'e-vandalism.' This sort of e-vandalism, says the author, is not only an inconvenience for Webmasters, but many of the images contain malware links and 'redirects or Flash links to Jihadist forums or blogs.' However, while the Jihadist forums are registered in Saudi Arabia, they are hosted by companies like Layered Tech and SoftLayer in Plano, Texas. On the Israeli side, 'A fascinating approach over the last few days is being made by an Israeli Website, "Help Israel Win," which provides a download so your PC can become part of a worldwide pro-Israeli botnet. So far 7,786 have joined, already a fairly powerful global computing force...'"
Oh boy... (Score:5, Funny)
In before shitstorm.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Funny)
Naw, this conversation about the Middle East will be totally different from the last three or four we've had. Mark my works: Peace will break out in the Middle East and it will eventually be traced back to this one slashdot discussion ;)
Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, a Carthaginian Peace.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Debellatio is another latin term that describes the aims of both parties in this conflict.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They call for the destruction of Israel in present form because it has occupied a lot of other's land and kicked a lot from their home.
Israel didn't occupy anybody else's land beyond the original mandate until she was attacked by her neighbors. And what of all the Jews that were kicked out of their homes in the neighboring countries? Why don't we see any mention of them? Your sympathy is pretty one-sided.
If you were kicked out of your home, wouldn't you fight against the occupier ? or just sit idle and pray for him ?
When my country launches a war of aggression with the intent of destroying a neighbor and loses said war then I'll worry about being kicked out of my home.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to worry! (Score:5, Funny)
The Palestinian hackers blew themselves up after they hacked in to the Israeli website. Old habits die hard...
This just in (Score:5, Funny)
A fatwa has been issued, calling for the immediate murder of "Anonymous coward."
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I rUn Windows you insensitive clod
Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
I wished this sort of crap would stop.
I'll be the first to say that I dislike the entire notion of the US supporting Israel. Israel never needed to be created and certainly doesn't need the U.S.'s help to exist -- if it should exist, it would exist under its own power. But with all that said, it doesn't mean "I hate Jews."
I know a lot of Jewish people and every single one of them have one thing in common -- they are not all the same!! Some think supporting Israel is important, some do not. Some will have a ham sandwich for lunch with you and some will not. Your own cultural and/or ethnic identity, whatever is may be, is not of "one mind" so why does anyone else expect this to be true of Jews? The same goes for anyone who thinks the people of the U.S. are just like Bush?
I say down with Judaism. I also say down with Christianity, Islam and every religion -- especially those that believe in invisible beings that created us and tell us how to live our lives. The evidence for Zeus is every bit as valid as the evidence for "God." Why do people have to believe in stupid stuff like that anyway?
There will always be reasons and excuses for one person to want to kill another. We don't need religion for that. But when religion becomes involved as a motivating factor, suddenly the problem becomes a LOT bigger, bloodier and more dangerous. So down with all of it I say... or... let them all kill themselves and leave us out of it.
Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunately, you can't just say 'Down with religion!' because religion has taken up residence in a very vital human activity; culture and community. People will fight to the death to keep their tribes.
In my own experience, this has been demonstrated to me time and again (though I don't know that I understand the reasons - just that they must exist); that nearly every Jew I've met is strongly in favor of the Jewish state. Maybe there is something to that.
All that said, Israel should stop killing recklessly. 550 Palestinian deaths to 5 Israeli deaths is so lopsided that it has to be stopped. The solution to the situation is actually pretty simple; it's money. Once the non-country of Palestine isn't made up of mostly the desperate poor, with a few warlords manipulating them, then you'll see peace. Alas, no one is likely to pony up.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:4, Insightful)
Lopsided outcome is policy. They want their opponents to know that starting a fight with them is a bad idea because they will finish it, harshly.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
I've noticed the American media is very consistent in using loaded, incorrect terminology to imply that Hammas "started it," while Israel is simply "retaliating." The simple truth is, it's a cycle of violence with no traceable origin (at least none that is still relevant). The side most to blame is the side quickest to escalate the existing cycle of violence. Factions in both sides have the will to inflict 100-1 casualties on the other, but only one side has the (US-supplied) means to accomplish this. But we have given Israel the power, without the responsibility. Americans must start taking responsibility for what our bombs are doing over there. But I doubt anything will change until a significant number of Arabs immigrate to the US.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7799593.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Israel killed several Hamas members, Hamas responded with rockets, Israel responded with airstrikes and an invasion. This seems to be the same tactic Israel has been using for thirty years:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-akins.html [ifamericansknew.org]
There have also been talks of the US selling the Israelis our C-RAM (Counter - Rocket, Artillery and Mortar) systems (based on the naval Phalanx CIWS). It would take one to two dozen of them (Depending on if you wanted redundant backups) to completely cover the Gaza strip, from the outside. This would allow Israeli to intercept rockets, artillery and mortars before they ever leave Palestinian airspace.
I find it a tad interesting that a few months before Israel gets near immunity to rocket attacks, they get 'fed up' and invade.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:4, Informative)
Not according to any credible news source I've seen. All major international news organizations credit Hamas with rocket attacks prior to Israeli response.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
And what ... exactly ... is the alternative ? Here's the demand of hamas. Note that it's a repeat of an islamic "holy" text :
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
This is the constitution of hamas. The constitution every Gazan lives under. The constitution over 70% of Gazans have willingly accepted.
What, exactly, is your response to a statement like this, backed up with rockets ? Do tell what the alternative course of action is for israel.
And don't say "talking". They've been "talking" since 1948. Talking is something hamas only does when they're losing the war, and they never keep their promises. In fact since 1948 it's progressively gotten worse for Israel. Right now there are constant attacks on Israeli citizens. EVERY SINGLE DAY rockets rain down on sderot and other Israeli cities.
"Putting the parties down to talk it out" is dependant on there not being ANY group ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD that will not talk. If there is even one such group, no matter how small, that controls a state or even a city, the policy of "talking" is doomed. It can only work between civilized people. What do civilized people do ? First and foremost, they are true to their word.
Just because the overwhelming majority of Americans are reasonable people, true to their words, does not mean that every last human is reasonable. Just read the comments in this story made by muslims and my point will be amply supported.
Hamas does not keep to treaties. Nor does any other neighbour of Israel. The only muslim country that has EVER shown to keep to international treaties when under the slightest bit of pressure is Turkey, and that era in Turkey is coming to an end.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
However, the US *can* lower the death toll by not pouring high-tech weaponry into Israel.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
Until the security fence went up, thousands of people in Israel were killed by suicide bombs over the past ten years. This week is lopsided only if you ignore history.
And it's not a question of money. The Pals get plenty of cash grants from the U.N. and Saudi Arabia. They're not "desperate poor", they're one big welfare state. Heck, back in the day, Saddam Hussein was giving about $16,000 to each family of a successful suicide bomber. If Hamas weren't running Gaza, they would be trading with Israel and the world and actually making some money.
It's not a question of religion. There are over 5 million Jews in Israel but also over 2 million Muslims and quite a few Christians--all living together in peace. The Muslims have representation in government and the only difference is that they don't serve in the military (except for the Beduins).
It's more a question of land. The Pals want it, the Israelis won't give it, end of story.
Now what makes the situation more explosive is that the Iranians are exploiting the local Arabs to set up a military forward base in Gaza. They have taken Hamas fighters to Iran to train them in guerrilla tactics and missile tech. They are trying to duplicate their success with Hezbollah.
That is what this current fight is about--it's really Israel versus Iran, and you'll notice the local Arab governments have been unusually subdued. None of them wants Iran to gain another foothold in their back yard, and while they publicly condemn Israel as do the "useful idiots" in Europe, behind closed doors they are egging the Israelis on.
Re:Fighting Cultures, Not Religions (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also lopsided if you reject the infantile reasoning that past deaths justify future murders.
A modern military force aggressively and methodically assaulting a primarily civilian region outside its national borders containing a few militias armed with crude explosives and rocks looks pretty lopsided to most rational people.
Israel is clearly violating the firm international law against collective punishment. It is killing and intimidating an entire population to punish it for the crimes of a few. If you think that this type of behaviour is acceptable, then I presume you also think that September 11 was acceptable insofar as the US has not exactly been an angel in its activities in the Middle East and therefore it was acceptable for a group from that region to exact revenge on defenceless US civilians? No? How odd.
Your comments about the Palestine being a "welfare state" also ignore the principal causes of that, namely Israel's control over passage into and out of Palestine and Israel's seizure of large sections of useful land within Palestine. Most countries would probably be welfare states under such circumstances. Your comments about aid are also laughable given that Israel is the world's largest recipient of foreign aid.
Until Israel removes all illegal settlements and withdraws to its original borders, it will not have the moral high ground in this debate. If it does that and is subsequently attacked, then it will have my full sympathy and will be justified in limited and properly targeted retaliation.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
550 Palestinian deaths to 5 Israeli deaths is so lopsided that it has to be stopped.
Err.. that's the worst logical reasoning i have heared in a long time.
Would you be happier with a 1:1 death toll? can't an army be efficient?
I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but the number of civilian casualties is less than 200. that gives a kill accuracy of greater than 60%. Can any other army claim such a moral accuracy figure?
hypocrite!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't need religion for that. But when religion becomes involved as a motivating factor, suddenly the problem becomes a LOT bigger, bloodier and more dangerous. So down with all of it I say... or... let them all kill themselves and leave us out of it.
Right because Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot didn't really kill all that many people compared to say the Spanish Inquisition.
Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:4, Informative)
Atheism is not an idealism. It is the absense of religious ideology and more specifically, the absense of belief in things like gods and fairies.
Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
It's certainly true that some atheists take a more positive view and assert that a god or gods cannot or do not exist. But at its root, atheism does not require this assertion -- simply not having a belief is sufficient to be classified as atheist.
This gets twisted around a lot in theological arguments; the atheist will sit back and sneer that the theist is the one making the assertion ("A god exists.") and is therefore carrying the burden of proof. The theist will counter that the atheist is also making an assertion ("A god does not exist.") and is thus just as burdened to prove his claim as the theist.
The reason theists like this argument so much is because they realise that they carry some burden of proof, because they acknowledge they are making an assertion about the nature of reality. Yet they also find it difficult to present any objective evidence to back their claim. This puts the atheist at an advantage, until the theist uses the above argument. Suddenly the atheist is faced with an impossible situation -- how do you prove something doesn't exist, especially when the something in question is a god?
No matter what the atheist says, the theist can claim that the god somehow manipulated the observation or outcome. And thus, the theist has now placed himself on superior ground in the debate, for while the theist may be able to dredge up a few interesting things the atheist can't explain, there is nothing the atheist can say which cannot immediately be explained away by the theist as some whim of the deity.
It is disingenuous at best and intellectually dishonest at worst to consider both of these stances equal in terms of burden of proof. There are people who genuinely believe that Reptilians from other planets walk among us and have infiltrated the highest levels of our governments. Should you encounter such a person, I suggest you don't engage them in dialogue, but if you did, you might ask what their proof is. Would you feel it fair if the Reptile Believer countered that you should have to prove there aren't Reptilians? Do you consider yourself some sort of active disbeliever in Reptilians, or just someone without even a passing interest on the topic?
I'm not trying to say which side is correct here, as both can make compelling arguments, but clouding the issue with incorrect definitions does nothing to advance the debate.
Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:4, Informative)
Wrong. That's like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Damn it; damn it; damn it: We have words; can't we please use them correctly?
Atheism is the belief that there is no god. That's what the goddamn word means. Agnosticism is the belief that one has no knowledge of God or his/her/its existence. Look at the damn word roots.
By definition, atheists are not agnostic, because they do claim knowledge: They assert that God does not exist. So the set of atheists and the set of agnostics are disjoint. They are also of course both disjoint from the set of theists.
OK? That's how it works. Atheists believe that the statement "God does not exist" is true; theists believe that the statement "God exists" is true. The end.
(Don't be offended: Calling atheism a belief in no way belittles it, and as a statement by itself is not equivalent to calling atheism "another religion." Beliefs in nonexistence can be quite justified. In math, we have theorems dedicated to showing nonexistence. And in real life, the belief that, say, purple unicorns do not exist is probably correct! But it's still a belief. That's what the words mean.)
Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Jews Are Evil, Land & Water Theives (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're going to lump all the non-religious movements together, then you should do the same with the groups acting in support of some religious cause. Looking at it from that perspective, atheism per se has led to far less violence than religion.
Otherwise, if you want to classify the groups based on their actual motivation, then you should only count those who were killed in the name of atheism, or because of their non-atheistic beliefs. Political and social movements that just happen to have atheistic leaders should be grouped separately based on their goals. Again, the movements supporting specific religious beliefs and personality cults tend to dominate when it comes to violence, compared those populated by freethinkers.
ALL wars are about power! (Score:3, Insightful)
Precisely. GP post is an absolute load of nonsense, and of course fails to cite any sources for his/her diatribe.
Well, it's not *absolute* nonsense, there is a valid point being made even if it goes to far in actually blaming atheism. And he shouldn't really have to cite sources for the deaths caused by Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.
The majority of "atheist"-caused deaths which are presumably being referred to were motivated by a desire to obtain and maintain political and social control, not to 'eradicate rel
Why is this News? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why is this News? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a natural extension of war now-a-days. This is akin to saying, "Soldiers Now Using Bullets in War".
If the dominant hand-held projectile weapon were still the musket, or people just still believed that, then yes, it would be news!
Anyway you may be interested in knowing that not but 5 months before, in the Russia/Georgia war the previous August, exactly the same thing was going on [slate.com] and an intrepid Slate reporter got involved in downloading botnet software from pro-Russian hackers.
Re:Why is this News? (Score:4, Interesting)
WTF is that?? Are they doing this in other countries? Kinda pissed me off to see another country, 'advertising' their side of the war in another country.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's news for 2 reasons
1. War of any type, even in places where there is always war, is news
2. Its a step up from the usual tactics of this place.
Reality check people (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Reality check people (Score:5, Interesting)
The "hacking" part is a distraction from the important part of this story: A massive propaganda war. And the outcome of that propaganda war could be as significant to the outcome of the conflict as the bombs. Even if it just makes either side shy away from targeting civilians, it's still hugely important.
Re:Reality check people (Score:4, Informative)
I see that Israel is doing pretty well on their side of the propaganda war. Your comment is pretty much exactly what Israel is saying, and it's completely different from what the Palestinians are saying. Israel has traditionally had a lock on the news coverage of this dispute, especially in the United States. The interesting part about the Web in this story is that Palestine is managing to get their side out somewhat more effectively than usual - see, for example, http://www.reddit.com/r/politics [reddit.com]
Re:Reality check people (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I get quite a bit of my news from outside the US. Al Jazeera [aljazeera.net] does a good deal of reporting in the area and they have a pretty neutral tone. The BBC is reporting pretty much the same as I have claimed and most of the other foreign press that have English sites that I have seen do the same.
Anyways, if you think Palestine is getting their message out, I would argue that they have been for a while. [youtube.com] It's probably why your sitting there trashing Israel's version right now. Well, not really trashing but raising the point of suspicion. If you follow the plot so far, Israel backed out of Gaza completely pursuant to a cease fire agreement brokered by the Egyptian government. It ended in December around the 19th or so. In october, Hamas start launching mortars and rockets into Israel at a slow pace and Israel attempted to get the elected Palistinian authority to make it stop pursuant to the agreement. This appeared as if it worked then stopped working then worked then stopped again. For a Christmas present, Hamas launched some 30 rockets into Israel which Israel finally responded to taking out a mortar team, killing one and injuring two others. Hamas stepped up it's attacks and Israel went full blown into what we are seeing now. Hamas has closed a checkpoint along the Egyptian border which was has loads of medical aid. Egypt has offered to take critical patients and offered to set up refugee camps for the innocents at the border. Hamas [zimbio.com] has stopped the aid from getting in and stopped the injured from getting out. They have even stopped the innocent civilians from moving to the borders by firing on their own civilians who were fleeing to it. A representative from Hamas attempted to portray it as an unjustified response because there is an election coming in Israel in February 2009. Hamas Claimed it was being attacked so the politicians could manipulate the elections. A reporter asked about this bit of news [ynet.co.il] floating around and the interview ended. I can't find the actually link to the report I originally read.
Re:Reality check people (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, they don't have the "LAUNCH MISSLES.EXE" in the root folder, but they sure could cause some damage on a military network.
And what is a military network doing being connected to the public Internet?!
Oh wait. They don't actually do that.
*phew*
Beware of joining any of these Botnets! (Score:3, Funny)
The EULAs require participants of the botnets that lose virtual battles to report to suicide booths.
If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish all wars were web wars. The papers today said the Isralies killed dozens in a UN school, and that nowhere in Gaza was safe.
Go, web warriers! Go away, bullet and rocket warriors. He who lives by the RPG dies by the RPG.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The papers today said the Isralies killed dozens in a UN school
To be fair, it seems that (according the army) terrorists were firing mortar shells from structure moments earlier [ynetnews.com].
Re:If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet, amazingly, for all the aerial drones, balloons (yes, balloons) and other visual devices they have, no image of said mortar firing will ever be provided for the public to view. Instead, we're supposed to rely on the word of a military who attacked a U.S. warship in international waters [wikipedia.org], who deliberately rammed and nearly sank a humanitarian aid ship [cnn.com] and who in 2006, destroyed the only power plant in Gaza [boston.com].
I'm all for people retaliating when they are attacked, but to deliberately kill journalists, attack your "friends", deny humanitarian aid to those who need it, attack refugee camps, and a whole list of other offenses, is where I draw the line. You want to shape world opinion to your point of view? Quit playing the victim card and start acting like you learned something from everything that's been done to you.
And since when is someone defending their land from an invader a terrorist? Apparently all those Iraqis who fought against the U.S. invasion were terrorists. Same goes George Washington. Hell, by that standard, Red Dawn [imdb.com] was nothing but a propaganda story about terrorists.
Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, they posted video of mortars being fired from that school last week. [youtube.com] Was it currently being used? We have no way of knowing, but that's how all intelligence works.
Point being the elected government of Gaza was using a UN non-military building as a base of operations to launch attacks on a civilian populace.
Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
just to be specific they posted the video last week, however it was shot in Feb/2008.
Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
er 2007.
that's what I get for trying to be specific.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
2007. 2006. Bah.
How about at the time the school actually got done in? [bbc.co.uk]
Two known militants among the dead who are known to be associated with rocket-firing squads. Named.
The palestinians elected a government that will hurt its neighbours and put their kids in the line of return fire. They got exactly what they asked for. Their own kids, dead.
One of Israels leaders said once that Israel will have peace with its neighbours the day they love their children more than they hate Israel. Egypt and Jordan wisened u
What happened? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh, they posted video of mortars being fired from that school last week. Was it currently being used? We have no way of knowing, but that's how all intelligence works.
Point being the elected government of Gaza was using a UN non-military building as a base of operations to launch attacks on a civilian populace.
According to the Israelis what happened was small arms fire coming from the direction of the UN school which in their opinion made it worth firing at. In short, according to the latest news reports, it appears that two Hamas fighters are dead at the cost of some 30+ kids and their care takers being killed as well. The sad thing is that many lives could probably have been saved over the last few days if the Israelis hadn't embargoed all sorts of medical equipment which has been piling up at the border for months. If Israel shot it self in the foot with the invasion and bombardment of Lebanon back in 2006 it is now shooting it self in both feet with this latest raid on Gaza. It is an awsome manifestation of the unshakeable US/Israeli belief that conflicts like this one are best resolved with the lavish over use of firepower but in the long run it won't do anything to end Hamas' resistance efforts. Even if Hamas is "cynically using civilians as a human shield" like the Israelis are claiming it still won't help Israel's cause very much in the long run. All the world will remember is the dead kids. I am no friend of Hamas but no matter how hard you try you won't succeed in making the sheer galactic stupidity of what Israel is currently doing in Gaza sound like a good idea.
Re:If only... (Score:4, Insightful)
Same goes George Washington
George Washington managed to fight for American independence without blowing up women and children in downtown London.......
Re:If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"ell, by that standard, Red Dawn [imdb.com] was nothing but a propaganda story about terrorists."
Yes it really was and a bad movie as well.
When you are killing your own countrymen your a terrorist. The Iraqi solders that fought the invasion where solders. The ones that are killing innocent Iraqi's are terrorists.
The ones that are killing US troops are insurgents.
Re:If only... (Score:5, Informative)
Oh lets not forget that there's a pile of aid sitting at the egypt/gaza border either but hamas won't open it. I mean seriously do a bit of research.
Seriously? I heard that Egypt wouldn't open the Gaza border because they don't want the Palestinians fleeing into Egypt, where they would cease being Israel's problem.
Re: (Score:3)
This is partially true. The other half is that hamas is refusing to allow in any as well, Israel is allowing aid in every 48hrs from their side of the border however.
You're welcome to think about that as you will.
Combatants (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
At least without a Letter of marque [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, because someone sending spam from their computer is obviously as bad as driving a car bomb into an embassy. In other news, terrorism is now a meaningless fear word. And "aiding an enemy foreign power"... is there anyone left that isn't in that category these days?
We have always been at war with Oceana.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
While insighful, I'm not sure "enemy" combatant applies. After all, most of the world isn't an enemy of Gaza or Israel. There is probably some classification like that (Unlawful combatant?), though I doubt whether there even are legal consequences your country is not involved in the war. It's even less clear if you reside on a country that has a mutual defense kind of agreement with of one of these countries.
Yes, joining on such a botnet is stupid. Yes, joining such a botnet in wartime would be stupid, poss
Insurance Claims ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait...
You claim you can find an insurance policy that cover your files or server so completely that they would need to invoke the "act of war" clause to deny you coverage for damages caused by hackers ?
I'm curious to see who would actually offer that kind of coverage.
I mean, coverage against flood or fire I can believe, but coverage against hacked password,software security holes and DDoS ???
Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:4, Interesting)
IMO, it's interesting to note the difference between the two. Israel seems to always have its military act together, beginning with the war it fought right after it got its land [back].
On one side, we have what was termed "e-vandalism." On the other side, we have a very planned strategy to do something, although I don't know what yet.
Just an interesting look into the different ... tactics, if you will.
Disclaimer for contextual reading of this comment: I am pro-Israel, anti-terrorism, and I really do think Israel wants peace and Hamas wants no-live-Jew-on-face-of-earth. This is not an anti-Jew post.
Re:Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
Israel bombs the hell out of them and the Palestinians shoot a few rockets back and deface a couple websites.
It's interesting how the media treats this as well. "Israel retaliates against terrorist rocket attacks." We have situation where an entire group of people is being oppressed by one of the most well-funded militaries on the planet, can barely get their hands on a few rockets to defend themselves, or food to feed themselves, and when Israel breaks the cease-fire agreement the US media is sympathetic to Israel.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hamas was the least corrupt party on their ballot. It's understandable that they voted for Hamas, and it doesn't justify the suffering Hamas has caused them.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If the difference between a legitimate military campaign and terrorism is a plan, what does that make the US invasion of Iraq? What does that make the Hezbollah resistance in 2006, which many would claim to have been executed with a well-defined plan? Also, how would we know that those perpetrating this vandalism are at all associated with the Hamas leadership? How are we to know what plans Hamas has for defense of Gaza, given that no journalists have been allowed inside by Israel, which has explicitly (and
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I was not attempting to say that violence, as long as it is well planned out, was ok. I meant to simply point out an apparent difference in organization. Israel seems to always have been well organized in this area.
I don't think Hamas is necessarily making their own rockets. Sure, Israel isn't either, but I don't think we should paint Hamas as these poor, innocent folks that barely scrape up enough metal to make a homemade rocket and it's not their fault if it misses, either. I'm not supporting killing
Re:Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:5, Informative)
If the difference between a legitimate military campaign and terrorism is a plan
No. The difference is a matter of perspective and who controls communication resources.
A suicide bomber is merely a poor country's F-16.
Re:Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
Disclaimer for contextual reading of this comment: I am pro-Israel, anti-terrorism, and I really do think Israel wants peace and Hamas wants no-live-Jew-on-face-of-earth. This is not an anti-Jew post.
I used to think that but then I read some history and started following current events. I now think it's "Israel wants land (which hasn't belonged to them in >2000 years) and Hamas (who represent people that they took it from) wants it back". At one point I think that the majority of Palistinians would have settled for "Just don't take any more." but that has unfortunately passed.
You don't really buy the no-live-jew-on-the-face of-earth line do you? That's a bunch of rhetoric that you too would probably spout were you and your family evicted from your house/land.
Jews and Arabs (and christians for that matter) have lived peacefully together, in that area, for hundreds of years at a time. There's nothing intrinsic in either religion that can't tolerate the existence of the other.
As F$%#@ed up as Hamas is (and I in no way support their tactics), you simply can't move in, displace millions, and expect peace.
I have sympathy for the innocent victims on both sides but Israel as a nation is reaping what it sows.
Sadly, I see no humane solution.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Jews and Arabs (and christians for that matter) have lived peacefully together, in that area, for hundreds of years at a time.
I am not sure exactly how "peaceful" it has been since, if I remember correctly, around AD 600, when Mohammad and the Qur'an showed up.
Yes, I do buy the no-live-jew-on-the-face-of-the-earth line. Read the Qur'an and find out what they think about Jews and the land Israel possesses. The more extreme Islamic believers, if memory serves, believe that they should have conquered pretty much the entire world already.
There are things intrinsic in the Jewish and Islamic religions that make it difficult to toler
Re:Coherent plan vs. terrorism (Score:4, Insightful)
Correct, however, Islam isn't a problem. RAMBAM ruled that Islam wasn't worshiping of false gods or idolatry, and therefore a valid Noachide faith. While Ashkenazi law doesn't really deal with Islam, Sephardic law generally follows RAMBAM, and in theory for land based issues, Sephardic law governs Israel because it's in the Sephardic area. Ashkenazi customs don't dispute RAMBAM's ruling, so there is ZERO problem, under Orthodox Judaism, for Muslims to live and dwell within the land referred to as Eretz Yisrael (the land of Israel, basically Jewish lands).
The Mosque on top of the Temple Mount is a separate issue, mostly because it's inconveniently located where the Third Temple will stand. However, without an unblemished red heffer, you can't purify people to enter the holiest areas, so under Orthodox law, Jews can't enter there. So while Orthodox Jewish law may prohibit the Dome of the Rock, nobody can really do anything about it, so it's an academic issue.
Regarding Christianity, there is no issue with non-Jews worshiping Jesus as messiah. There is a question of whether the worship of the trinity, statues of saints (in Catholic Churches), renders Christianity idolatry... but no ruling that it is... the the rule of thumb is not to enter a Church, in case it IS idolatry, but that the non Jewish Christians inside it aren't necessarily engaged in idolatry so the rules regarding idolatry don't apply either.
Now I have ZERO clue what the law says regarding a Hindu Temple setting up shop in Israel, but that's WAY above my pay grade. If you want real explanations, and not a very lay explanation on Slashdot, consult your local Orthodox Rabbi.
Any issues that lay Jews have with Christianity isn't theological in nature, but rather a series of rulings during centuries of Christian persecution, which likely colored the judgment of the Ashkenazi Rabbis.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What time period is that? At no point has anyone on the Palestinian side said that. The 1948 partition was no good, the 1967
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The Islamic people call the Jews "The People of the Book", and it is their position that those sort of power structures are sinful and wrong.
This is just plain wrong. The "People of the Book" just means that muslims faith is presented as a continuation of Judaism (in the same way christians are; only that christians believe the final prophet was Jesus, muslims believe it was Mohammed or Mahoma, and jews believe it's still due to appear sometime in the future). The Book here is the Ancient Testament, or th
GIYUS (Score:5, Informative)
theres also GIYUS (im not gonna link) they have 40,000 members regularly trolling on large forums and newspapers such as Guardian regarding any topic about Israel/Palestine
this been going on for long time
"Help Israel Win" site down, and probably phony. (Score:3, Informative)
The Help Israel Win [help-israel-win.org] site is down. But Google's cache of the site [209.85.173.132] is available, so that seems to be the site mentioned.
From the cached page, this sounds like just another attempt to install malware. "How can you help? You download and install the file from our site. The file is harmless to your computer and could be immediately removed. There is no need for identification of any kind - anonymity guaranteed!" There's no indication of who's behind this, and the only contact point is a GMail address.
The domain is registered anonymously through some Register.com front organization in Portugal. It's currently not resolving at all. DNS is on a Register.com server.
Probably had nothing to do with Israel at all.
OMG A Voluntary Botnet?? (Score:4, Funny)
That's so cool, where do I sign up to turn my computer into a zombie controlled by a shady Command Central? Does that cost anything or is it free?
Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Funny)
Free Money (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Start monetized blogs.
2) Copypasta some anti-Israel content.
3) Refer your blogs to giyus.org for listing on Megaphone.
4) Enjoy 15,000+ page impressions per day.
you forgot... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Informative)
It should be noted that local Israeli media is strongly recommending to stay away from this website and not to download the software it is offering, citing reasons of the illegality of the action and the obvious possibility of your PC being hijacked for other purposes.
Sorry, I couldn't find a link in English.
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3650277,00.html [ynet.co.il]
Re:Joining a Botnet on purpose? (Score:5, Funny)
You've never installed a Windows-based operating system on one of your machines??
Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a Jew and definite supporter of Israel, but some of your points are frighteningly mistaken.
"The cancer that is Islam"? Come on. Every religion has it's share of crazy fundamentalist quacks reading too much into parts of their holy literature - currently, the fundamentalists of Islam just happen to be a little more numerous and (considerably) more vocal than those of the other major religions. Look back in time - at one point, Christians had a little thing called the Crusades. Hindus in India have been known to form mobs and beat and kill their Muslim neighbors. As for Jews...well, some might even consider the current crisis an example of fundamentalism, though I vehemently do not.
Which leads me the next point: the fallacy that Jews somehow "don't really care that much about religion". What? Sure, they may not go out and scream "TO THE GLORY OF YWHW" before blowing themselves up in a crowded mosque, but that doesn't mean they don't have an incredible fundamentalist and mainstream religious fervor. Watch people rock back and forth in tears and prayer in front of the Wailing Wall and then tell me Jews in Israel "don't really care that much about religion."
"Haven't done shit since 1000 B.C. when they gave up the last of their rational humanistic thought. Sit on patches of oil and get fat." Oy vey. For one, there are Muslims outside the Arab world. For another, back to point one: stop generalizing. Just because a religion has a few (or even a lot) of nutjobs, doesn't mean that the religion itself is to blame.
The rest of your flamebait suffers the same problem. You say Muslims are savages. It would be more accurate to say some some Muslims are savages. It would be more accurate still to say some people are savages.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a Muslim and my lunch break is almost over so I can't really write as long of a post as I wanted.
I agree that this war needs to stop, Palestinians and Israelies need to sit down and freaking figure out how to not kill 600+ people over a weekend.
The solutions presented by both sides so far are ridiculous:
a) Throw them in the sea (Palestinian solution)
b) Exterminate them (Israeli solution)
Both sides are idiots, hard headed and are in serious need for an adult conversation.
As a side note to the GP regarding extremist Muslims (or as I like to call them douche bags), if they read Quran they'll stop this my god is bigger than your god bull, here's a quote:
Al Baqara (002.136)
Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
P.S.: It's refreshing to see a post like yours on Slashdot :)
-1, flamebait (Score:4, Insightful)
Such hatred! Gees, no wonder people are dying right and left
Jews: Isreal has the most gender-neutral society in the entire world.
Rank bullshit. perhaps the most gender-neutral in the middle east, I don't think anyone would argue with that, but I think you'll find most European nations (and nations who were settled by Europeans) to be far more gender neutral. In the US, the third in the Presidential sucession is a woman, speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.
IslamoSavages
Flamebait. Grow up, boy.
Jews: Have the right to a homeland
So do the Palestinians.
IslamoSavages: Wish to indoctrinate the world into the cancer known as Islam.
And Bhuddists sish to indoctrinate the world to Bhuddism and Christians (I'm one) want everyone to accept Christ as savior. Your point?
Jews: Act only in self-defense, strike from afar only at those whose fingers are on the trigger or detonator. Collateral damage is accidental.
Israel shells near UN school, killing at least 30 [yahoo.com]
Savages, you say? Seventy dead innocents to kill two soldiers? That's barbaric. Israel should be ashamed of itself, if I was an Israli I'd be at the wailing wall in sackcloth and ashes begging God's forgiveness.
Jews: Don't really care that much about religion.
I see you've not met many Jews. The ones I know are very religious.
Jews: Leading contributors to cutting-edge science and technology.
Gates, Jobs, Torvalds, all Jews? Where do you come up with all this rank bullshit?
Damn it's hard to keep from responding to these damned trolls.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem to be confused as to the nature of war crimes. It is a SEVERE war crime, Perfidy [wikipedia.org] to do what those two militants did. You are expressing outrage at the wrong side. Those two Hamas Militants caused the deaths of 68 civilians by engaging in Perfidy, their families should be mourning and begg
Re:-1, flamebait (Score:5, Informative)
If 3 men rob a bank, and the SWAT team has to storm it, and innocent people die, do you blame the SWAT team, or the bank robbers?
If the swat team accidentally shoots innocent people, then the swat team is at fault. In fact, courts have backed this up - if you're in a bank, doing legal business, and a cop shoots you while trying to stop a robbery, you're getting your medical bills paid by the city, and if you die your family will win a wrongful death suit.
If a police car smashes into your auto while chasing someone else, the city pays. You can't shoot me in a bank and say it's the bank robbers' fault. It just doesn't work that way.
US soldiers have been court martialed for collateral damage, there were some airmen from here in Springfield who were in pretty deep shit because they accidentally bombed some Canadians in Afghanistan. Nobody blamed the Taliban for the Canadian deaths.
If you're going to shoot, it is your responsibility to hit the target and ONLY the target.
Yes, Hamas are monsters. So are the people they're fighting.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Different situation entirely.
Replace bank robber with foreign army. No SWAT team or rescue mission wants to kill the hostages, but sometimes it happens. Should the rescuers be held responsible for the deaths of the hostages? Depends.
A SWAT team has a lot more to answer for than a military. If Hamas hides behind civilians and the Israelis mow them both down, who do you think is to blame? Hamas KNOWS there's an entire nation's worth of armed forces coming for them, and they KNOW that they might not stop
Re:-1, flamebait (Score:5, Informative)
Re:-1, flamebait (Score:4, Insightful)
Okay to be honest I can sort of see Israel's point of view. I don't think their actions are wise. I also will not join any botnet.
At best this is a sad stupid situation. I wish I could see a good way out. Israel tried to give a little and then got rockets in return. The Arab nations have kept the Palestinians in refugee camps for how many decades?
Just a mess over all.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So far the UN reports that the civilian casualty rate (the percentage of casualties who were civilians) is 25%. That means a 75% military rate. Unfortunately, that rate is far better than almost any modern war.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one of the things that puzzles me. All of the battles launched by the Arabs began with, "We will be victorious and wipe Israel from the map, God willing." And yet they were unsuccessful in 1948 and 1973, and caught off-guard in 1967 when Israel attacked prior to a likely attack by the forces from three Arab nations. Hezbollah and Hamas repeatedly cite their mere survival as God showing them favor (despite the kill ratio of 50:1 or more enjoyed by the Israelis).
I understand the idea that they may perceive these as challenges from God to be overcome, but at some point, someone has to be thinking that maybe these are messages from God telling them that they're not going to win.
Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:5, Funny)
Joke's on them. Allah is Jewish.
Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:4, Informative)
Allah is Jewish.
Actually, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Mormons, all worship the same God, they just disagree on who was the last prophet.
Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:4, Insightful)
Muslims worship a God which is not triune. Therefore, the Muslim God cannot be the Christian God.
From your response I can tell you are a Southern Baptist who has been exposed to "The Mormon Question" or know someone who has. It saddens me to see you so naively misled. Using the doctrine of the Trinity as a bright-line distinction between Mormons and Christians (or Muslims and Christians in this case) might be the kind of comforting safety blanked that lets you rest easy, but sadly it has no basis in fact.
The fact is that there's no such thing as the Trinity in the Bible.
"The formal doctrine of the trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament." - Harper's Bible Dictionary (Protestant Source)
"The formulation of 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century... Among Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." - New Catholic Encyclopedia (Catholic Source)
The Bible's teaching on God's nature is ambiguous. Sure, Christ says he's "one with the Father", but then he also prays that his disciples will be one in the same sense of the word, which seriously jeopardizes subsequent metaphysical gymnastics required to invent the "one in three, three in one" formulation. At best the Bible is compatible with the Trinity, but it most certainly doesn't require it or preach it.
Oops.
Re:Put things in perspective... (Score:4, Insightful)
We all worship the God of Abraham. Jesus said to worship this God. It's the same God even if there are disagreements about Him.
Oh and the last Christian prophet was of course John the Baptist. ;)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
*before* the ceasefire ending Hamas fired almost 3000 rockets into Israel. [wikipedia.org] I'd say they broke the ceasefire well before the IDF "provoked" them.
I agree they should open up the borders, the problem is the people in gaza voted for a terrorist group to run things. Now they have to live with the fact that Hamas uses any opening in the border to bring in weapons.
Body count is no way to judge these things, as Hamas deliberately hides their weapons and members amount civilians to inflate it. In an ideal world t
Re:Idiots (Score:4, Insightful)
*before* the ceasefire ending Hamas fired almost 3000 rockets into Israel. I'd say they broke the ceasefire well before the IDF "provoked" them.
Many others report Israel broke the cease fire [guardian.co.uk] - the bottom line is that both sides have continued to fight. It's a red herring to suggest one side acted in an unprovoked manner - that's simply bogus.
Who shot first is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that Israel has been condemned by the United Nations more than 50 times for refusing to follow various agreed-upon conventions. Israel has been systematically driving the Palestinians off their own land and taking it over. That's a fact. That's not something you can accuse the arabs of doing. If you bulldoze someone's house. If you make them have to pass through armed checkpoints and hostile guards to get to work. If you break their cities into little pieces by building an illegal wall around their settlements, you shouldn't be surprise if some of these people react. The irony is that Israel is slowly committing genocide on the Palestinians and nobody's doing anything about it. The United States is funding the genocide to the tune of $6,000,000,000.00 a year now in an elaborate kickback scheme involving military defense contractors and the US's most powerful lobbying group: AIPAC. There's no motivation for Israel to make peace with its neighbors when war is profitable for them and for the American corporations that aid money gets funneled back to.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It is only irrelevant because people ignore when Hamas attacks Israel and provokes an attack. Instead, people focus on how Israel is hurting the poor, terrorist loving Palestinians who elected a terrorist group to power and allow them to fire rockets into their bigger, better armed neighbor.
You people even excuse brainwashing young men and women into blowing themselves up.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
$ traceroute help-israel-win.org
help-israel-win.org: Name or service not known
but ..
$ whois help-israel-win.org
.. SNIP ..
Domain ID:D154969835-LROR
Domain Name:HELP-ISRAEL-WIN.ORG
Created On:25-Dec-2008 15:18:36 UTC
Last Updated On:06-Jan-2009 18:14:34 UTC
Expiration Date:25-Dec-2009 15:18:36 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Register.com Inc. (R71-LROR)
Name Server:DNS211.A.REGISTER.COM
Name Server:DNS124.B.REGISTER.COM
Name Server:DNS044.C.REGISTER.COM
Name Server:DNS010.D.REGISTER.COM
and :
$ traceroute DNS211.A.REGISTER.COM ..
traceroute to DNS211.A.REGISTER.COM (216.21.231.211), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
.. SNIP
11 border1.pc1-bbnet1.nyj001.pnap.net (216.52.95.9) 120.914 ms 122.024 ms 124.956 ms
Maybe someone more knowledgeable in this sort of thing can clear this up ?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's a sort of a seti-at-home kind of thing when you look at it that way...
You mean someone's trying to find out if there's intelligent life in the Middle East?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hamas spends five years launching rockets at schools and residential areas and not one word from anyone. Israel decides it has had enough and acts to stop the cowardly fucks and people complain about how mean Israel is and how it is hurting the Palestinians.
If Hamas had not fired rockets into Israel again, after taking a six month break to build more and better rockets, then none of this would have happened.