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Cisco Mulls Adding Verbal Interview To CCIE Exams
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:15 PM
from the polygraphs-and-mind-melds-to-follow dept.
from the polygraphs-and-mind-melds-to-follow dept.
Julie188 writes "Here's a new idea to stop certification test-taking cheaters; Cisco is considering introducing a verbal interview portion to its CCIE lab exams across the world. Cisco confirmed that it is running a pilot in its exam lab in Beijing, China that involves candidates taking a 10-minute verbal interview as part of their lab exam. Cisco said that if the pilot is successful, the interview could be introduced as a requirement for CCIE Routing & Switching candidates worldwide. The company has been running the pilot since August."
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What about other certs? (Score:4, Interesting)
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To save costs that can be done over the phone. Some official line with video recording to prove that the person talking was the person taking test. Just in case of problems afterwards.
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Its great for just configuring one router, but college still played a huge role for testing a whole "virtual internet" of routers, since I lacked the funding for such a setup at the time (again, college being the keyword here). I'm due up for taking the exam again pretty soon, so I might hav
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Microsoft has been doing this in a fashion for a little while. Look at the Microsoft Certified Master and Microsoft Certified Architect programs. The Master program is a real class that you take, complete with exams and simulations to take. The architect program typically has you appear in front of a peer review board to get your certification. They're great programs that I'm considering going through, but the price tags are a bit steep for both, and you need to clear some time/additional money to trave
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Links? I'd be interested in this.
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Apparently, it will become a trend for the high-end tier of technology certifications.
VMware [vmware.com] will also be adding it [vmware.com] the their VCDX [vmware.com] certification, but not to the "more common" VCP.
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The verbal interview should be followed (or replaced) by a practical demonstration of proficiency in troubleshooting on Cisco equipment with induced malfunctions. Allow X amount of time for each exercise, then move on so the testee isn't disqualified by one question.
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The CCIE lab exam that this interview is being added to is an 8-hour troubleshooting session on a network of real Cisco equipment.
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Did it change? When I was there (2002) they had just transitioned to a a one-day exam format that consisted of configuring a number of routers (8) with a crapton of different technologies. The primary network was frame-relay with OSPF. On top of that there was an isdn dial backup site, an Atm point-to-point link (and you had to configure the PVC in the atm switch) a Token ring switch I never did manage to get right, and Cat 6x Ethernet switches. I had to configure a single voip station and some SNA tran
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Why is this modded troll? The idea that increasing the value of certs is a troll?
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For the record I couldn't care less. I find my self wondering more and more each year why I am celebrating a holiday of a religion I don't even follow. (kids) We need a return to the root of our holidays. Christmas was a pagan year end celebration. Easter was a pagan holiday celebrating fertility. It fell in the spring as winter ended and new life
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I'm tempted to agree with you. Problem is, I don't believe that symbols of fertility will help the crops grow, so Easter would be straight out whether going with the Christian meaning or the pagan meaning. My suggestion? Just ride along and enjoy the bunny.
It's the same with Christmas... I might not be filled with Jesus juice, but nor do I feel the need to worship the goddess of nature, the sun god, or the god of agriculture. So I just drink the nog and play Santa.
Maybe Festivus will still take off?
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It's already starting to take off commercially [wagnercompanies.com]
$40 plus S/H for a pole you could make yourself or find in a scrap yard with 10 minutes of effort. Gotta love the free market ;)
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So, essentially your reasoning is that it would be ludicrous for somebody to be offended by a simple, holiday-related sentiment offered in good spirit? Or at least, they shouldn't be nearly as offended by yours as you are by theirs?
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Cisco should be careful (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's not really anyone's fault. They can't help where they were born or that I simply don't understand them well because I don't live around a lot of people with Indian accents.
It's not just Indians either. Some Scottish people can be a nightmare to understand over the phone and again it's simply down to what you're use
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In some instances I don't care
If I'm calling a support line, pretty much by definition I care, because I've run into something I can't handle.
The real issue here has nothing to do with Indians, or Scotsmen, or anyone else with a particular accent or unfamiliarity with English. It has to do with American outfits wanting to squeeze every penny out of their operating expenses, and see overseas call centers as another way to do that. Take my cellular provider, for instance. They shipped all their phone support to India, have made matters
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Try Louisiana.
No thanks. I've been there.
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That right there is why Cisco certifications are valuable to have; a company will pay you to be a guru for their networking equipment so they never have to call Bangalore about it.
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Sigh, PC gone amok. If they're working in IT then they'd better speak English fairly well. Most users have to type commands in English, most documentation is in English, a significant number of fora are in English. If you're not able to communicate reasonably well in English you're going to be at a serious disadvantage, one serious enough that the CCIE isn't likely to save your butt.
At some point people need to realize that there's a difference between ideal and what we've got, most civil rights legislation
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Besides most technical terms are probably in english and the "normal" words will probably be in the person's mother tongue so they have to know a little English to do the job properly.
Re:Cisco should be careful (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
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Other than France? Yes. It's just a matter of practicality. English is simply the most widespread language in the world. If there is a non-native language used by the most people, it would be English. A lot of technical manuals are written in English or are available in English. Code comments are often in English, even when worked on by non-native English programmers. If a non-English company is trying to be more international, their best return would be translating their documentation into English.
I think you're doing it wrong.... (Score:5, Funny)
Something tells me that they're doing it wrong [xkcd.com]
First question will eliminate 50% of applicants: (Score:4, Funny)
"Please elaborate."
Like the GRE... (Score:3, Interesting)
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You can't bullshit a bullshitter.
You're lying.
What i'd like to know (Score:5, Funny)
is why the hell they don't let you use a calculator. My conversation with my (now utterly uncertified) instructor went about like this:
"In real life you won't always have a calculator"
"BS, we're working ON COMPUTERS"
"Well what if the batteries die?"
"Solar power, spare batteries, or I could use one of MY computers"
"And what if the power is out then, smart guy?"
"Well I guess I won't have very much to do if that happens while I'm working dialed into a router then, will I?"
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I worked with a man who liked to ask 'what's the first derivative of y=1/x' during job interviews.
I wasn't that it caught flat out resume fabricators, though it did that as well.
It caught people who scraped by their basic math and then never used it again (who he specifically didn't want).
Oral exam ? (Score:2)
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I think Cisco has every right to give oral to their testees.
Yes, and the ones that don't make it become testee culls.
This won't stop cheating... (Score:3, Informative)
People cheat on the lab portion of the CCIE by sending in people to memorize the lab topology and various questions. Then afterward they report back to other with the topology, features etc... It's no different than memorizing the written questions except while there are hundreds of written questions that can be selected for your exam, there's probably only a dozen or so different lab exams.
I do like how VMWares forthcoming VCDX exam will have a verbal component. Similar to how one has to verbally defend their PhD thesis. I for one would like candidates to be able to explain why they made a certain decision or the benefits of going with one design over another. Rather than just seeing how quickly you can configure up the features or memorize test questions.
CCIE #20847
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I don't see how this is any different from getting material for training from Internetworkexpert and the bootcamp trainers. It's pretty darn well known set-up :)
CCIE #20962.
Anyway, there are about sixteen different lab exams of varying difficulty.
Re:How did they fudge the practical lab? (Score:5, Informative)
I thought the lab had a verbal component, but apparently not. In any case, good idea.
It isn't verbal, just not written. I don't know the exact details because I haven't taken it myself but I work with a CCIE. There is a troubleshooting lab that you must take which accompanies the written portion. This used to be setup such that you would setup the lab equipment for your personal test on day 1. Overnight they would screw it up and then the 2nd day you had to fix it. Now it is just one day and you don't set it up from the ground up (cabling, etc.) You have access to Cisco docs to do the lab but you are limited to 9 hours to do the lab portion. If you are spending all your time looking up some piece of info you won't come close to completing it and some of the tasks are cumulative. Read this [com.com] for more info. They changed the format back in 2001. I don't see how anyone could really cheat on this part since you have to know how to configure the devices but maybe this interview is supposed to aid with minimizing the cheaters on the written portion. If you are cheating there though then I'd think you would have to cheat on the lab and if you don't need to cheat on the lab that you wouldn't have to on the written but I assume Cisco is seeing some trends that indicate cheating in some way.
Parent
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One of the problems that has started coming up in some places (ie Beijing) is people taking the test for one another, faking their identity. Also there are a lot of boot camps and crash courses out there now that could theoretically allow one to get just a tenuous enough grasp on the exact material to barely pass.
As a CCIE Voice who actually worked to earn it I applaud this move. I'm prepping for my R&S now and honestly this won't affect my prep work at all. If you know it thoroughly enough to pass t
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But won't this weed out the non-English speaking, book-memorizing, cheap-working brown people that Corporate America loves so dearly?
exactly. Additionally, raising the bar beyond basic competence restricts the market, allowing labor to dictate their own terms (think medical and law licenses).
If the corps have their say, it won't happen, but if it does the corps will fund anyone who does not speak english and wants to file a lawsuit demanding proctors interview them in their own language.
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And makes things many times more expensive than they would be in a normal market (think medical and law expenses).
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Additionally, raising the bar beyond basic competence restricts the market, allowing labor to dictate their own terms (think medical and law licenses).
And makes things many times more expensive than they would be in a normal market (think medical and law expenses).
No, it doesn't. If you want to know where the expenses for medicine come from, check the catalogues of pharma and medical supply companies and the premiums for malpractice insurance, all of which are inflated so far beyond reason as to be incomprehensible.
IT workers are often abused to the point of 80 hour work weeks, and can't even claim overtime thanks to huge corporate lobbyists. These same companies demand certs out the wazoo, all of which cost money and tons of time off the clock, and they should off
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Is that why doctors and lawyers, when they graduate make more than most other graduates? Due to insurance companies?
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They make more than other graduates because they put in more work, because they have to pass a rigorous certification process, and because they have to pay back considerable education costs.
If you lower doctor salaries to the 35 some-odd thousand a year per capita income of the US nobody would ever become a doctor.
I might add, though, that IT workers have to know as much as doctors (on different subjects) and in most cases work on more sensitive timescales and have lower job security.
They should make as muc
Re:Who cares if CCIEs are good conversationalists? (Score:4, Insightful)
No - I think that ability to fix a network is low on the list, which is, to my mind, led by...
1) Generating sales and generally advocating for Cisco
2) Bolstering a companies IT credibility when bidding for business
3) raising the bar to exclude cheaper competitors by making access to certified staff a mandatory part of a bid.
4) Allow board level execs to think the've "done the right thing" by hiring certifed staff who fit the bill.
In these functions, the ability to fit the mental image of what a technical professional should look like seems to me to be a very strong factor and I think there's a real danger that Cisco will make the CCIE a screentest for the role.
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