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Google Brings 3D To Web With Open Source Plugin
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Apr 21, 2009 05:00 PM
from the linux-users-see-these-instructions dept.
from the linux-users-see-these-instructions dept.
maxheadroom writes "Google has released an open source browser plugin that provides a JavaScript API for displaying 3D graphics in web content. Google hopes that the project will promote experimentation and help advance a collaborative effort with the Khronos Group and Mozilla to create open standards for 3D on the web. Google's plugin offers its own retained-mode graphics API, called O3D, which takes a different approach from a similar browser plugin created by Mozilla. Google's plugin is cross-platform compatible and works with several browsers. In an interview with Ars Technica, Google product manager Henry Bridge and engineering director Matt Papakipos say that Google's API will eventually converge with Mozilla's as the technology matures. The search giant hopes to bring programs like SketchUp and Google Earth to the browser space."
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Khronos Launches Initiative For Standards-Based 3-D Web Content 117 comments
xororand writes "The initiative called 'Accelerated 3D on the web' has been formed by the Khronos consortium with the goal to define an open standard for 3D content on the web, using OpenGL and ECMAscript, as it was suggested by Mozilla developers. 'The Khronos(TM) Group today announced an initiative to create an open, royalty-free standard for bringing accelerated 3D graphics to the Web. In response to a proposal from Mozilla, Khronos has created an "Accelerated 3D on Web" working group that Mozilla has offered to chair. This royalty-free standard will be developed under the proven Khronos development process with a target of a first public release within 12 months.'
Unlike previous attempts to establish 3D standards for the web, this one might be actually successful due to the use of existing open standards, and the increasing performance of ECMAscript engines."
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vrml (Score:5, Interesting)
So was there ever a single useful thing done in vrml?
I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm really curious.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I once saw a 3D model of the Dopefish [dopefish.com]. It was neat. 3D graphics on my computer on the Internet! What'll they think of next?
Jumping ahead decade and a half... looks like it's just a competitor to Flash. Something else to make my computer run slower than my 486 did as I tried to execute Java applets back in '96...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:vrml (Score:5, Insightful)
There are things I would like to see in 3D and I do think the capability to embed 3D objects is a useful step.
Off the top of my head:
-google earth in a browser.
-games are always a target for tech like this.
-any sort of 3d visualization of data that would benefit from non static viewing.
That said I disagree with how they made this, conceptually I prefer the 3D context for the canvas tag.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There are already proprietary applications for viewing 3D objects in browsers. These are useful for certain lines of work, such as displaying CAD models. I don't think the industrial companies that use these technologies will be the first to adopt open standards, but it might be a useful tool for smaller design houses.
As you wrote, online game designers will probably be all over this, and their ability to generate revenue should not be underestimated.
Re: (Score:2)
-google earth in a browser.
-games are always a target for tech like this.
-any sort of 3d visualization of data that would benefit from non static viewing.
OK, why would any of those be better in the browser instead of as a native application?
Re: (Score:2)
Accessibility, whether real or perceived.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Because you can embed the images in another webpage - just like youtube videos.
You don't have to bother about with unpacking zip files, rpm's, tar's, .run files, especially when you don't have admin permissions on the host machine.
Also, you won't start up your application one day, and read the message "This version is no longer supported. Please exit and upgrade to uber-version X.Y.Z".
Re:vrml (Score:5, Insightful)
Compare Youtube videos to a native video player, the native option is much better.
Mostly because YouTube is based on Flash, and there currently aren't any major video sites using the video tag. I'd suggest that the video tag would be much better.
That's what self extracting installers are for, and you should be able to install to your home directory. If not, that's a packaging issue that's easy to deal with.
Unless they've also locked it down with something like noexec.
there's nothing stopping an app from being self updating.
True, but autoupdate is one of many things a browser / web-based application gives you "for free".
Another one is navigation. No reason a native app can't have hyperlinks back/forward buttons, and history, but why reinvent the wheel?
Another is extensibility. Without really doing much, you're probably still allowing people to write Greasemonkey scripts for your app.
Another is the refresh button. Complete reboot + autoupdate all in one.
Another is extreme portability -- native players may be better than YouTube, but it's difficult finding a machine that won't play YouTube out of the box. VLC isn't a terribly big download, but it's still an inconvenience, especially on machines where such things aren't allowed.
Another is security. Trusting one plugin to add 3D support is considerably safer than trusting every single application you might want to download that might want to render 3D. The browser is necessarily a sandbox, which means you don't have to set up a more complex one (like a chroot or a virtual machine).
The list goes on. You may not like the platform, but there are advantages to having an open standard portable platform. In fact, the browser is fulfilling the promise of Java so many years ago -- compile once, run anywhere.
I would say, if you don't like doing everything in the browser, and there's a specific reason you don't like it, improve it. That's what happened here, I'm sure -- Google doesn't like doing Google Earth in the browser, because the browser has no 3D. So they've improved the browser.
Parent
Re:vrml (Score:5, Informative)
So that I don't have to make my multivariable calculus students download and install new applications on their computers, so that I don't have to convince the IT folks at our school to install bunch of new applications that only a handful of students will use in the labs and classrooms, and I don't have to find an application that would run on all of my students' computers, whichever OS they use, the labs that mostly run windows, and my linux laptop.
Parent
Re:vrml (Score:5, Informative)
OK, why would any of those be better in the browser instead of as a native application?
No install, cross-platform.
Parent
Re:vrml (Score:5, Funny)
There is no shortage of boobs posting on /.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not trying to snarky either, I'm really serious:
No.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, there are many really cool mathematical visualizations done in VRML. The main problem with VRML was, imho, that the plugins were really clunky and never really worked that well. In fact, at the time VRML was introduced, the whole plugin architecture in most browsers was pretty simple, and even installing plugins was not easy. Finding, dowloading and installing a VRML plugin wasn't any easier than installing a standalone application for 3D, and the application probably had better functionality.
I
We can hope (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe Google will make a game engine that doesn't suck next.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I think you meant to say a game engine that's not evil.
Re: (Score:2)
No chance of that. [switched.com] And their response [blogspot.com]. :)
Ugh. Again. (Score:2, Insightful)
The 3d web doesn't work. What "problem" are they trying to fix? That's the main reason it keeps failing.
-- incubus
Re:Ugh. Again. (Score:5, Informative)
The 3d web doesn't work. What "problem" are they trying to fix? That's the main reason it keeps failing.
-- incubus
I know that this is slashdot but did you not read the summary? This could allow for Google Earth to function in a similar way to how Microsoft virtual earth 3D does within IE without need for a fat client on the desktop. The main difference would be that it would be more open and cross platform/browser compatible.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That plugin does not work on Linux. The point is not to implement Google Earth as a plugin. It is to implement it using Web standards (VRML, HTML, JavaScript, etc.). It's the same as using SVG + JavaScript + SMIL instead of Flash, or Google Maps which doesn't use any plugins. If they manage to pull it off, it's going to be interesting.
Re: (Score:2)
The 3D web worked fine with VRML (and continued to work fine with X3D, AFAIK.) The problem is that no one really had any work for it to do.
Finally (Score:5, Funny)
goatse will be worth looking at~
Re:Finally (Score:5, Funny)
For some reason, goatse.cx always reminds me of that quote...
Parent
Show some respect (Score:4, Interesting)
I give Google credit for creating open source software, but I'm personally getting tired of the half implementation for Linux. I mean here is a company who has used Linux as the foundation for their internal use and they can't even muster up a deb or rpm package for their product, let alone 64 bit Linux support. Wtf Google.
Show some respect to the community.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
3D on a 2D Screen (Score:2)
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VRML (Score:4, Informative)
ffs!
Javascript. API. OpenGL.
Re: (Score:2)
But there is a certain similarity: VRML plugins often used OpenGL to render the 3D content; and the idea seems very similar - have 3D content on the web.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you're right. After reading the overview, it appears that this is totally different than Mozilla's idea (who are also contributing to the Khronos initiative).
Mozilla's approach is a much better idea...
Re: (Score:2)
Don't mod me up! I was wrong, wrong, wrong!
SVG (Score:4, Insightful)
Speaking as an animator and web developer, I'd rather see this effort on the part of Google and Mozilla put into 3D SVG. It would eliminate the need for yet another plugin, allow direct DOM access, and facilitate the mixing of 3d with other page elements.
Or maybe I just want Lain's web experience...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Isn't this trying to open the path for that? If they can get the API down pat with the plugin, and leave it open enough to replace the plugin with built-in functionality, it'll do exactly what you want, quicker, and with cross-browser compatibility.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I meant specifically the object-heavy DOM API required by SVG, where everything in sight is an object, including things that would be better off as strings (the .href of an , for example, just in case you want to use SMIL to animate that; same thing for .className on all SVG elements). Oh, except you have to also provide it all in string form for the Core DOM APIs.
Having personally worked on a browser DOM implementation and done a fair amount of black-box testing of three other browse DOM implementations,
What is this brand new techology good for? (Score:3, Insightful)
We tried something like this once before.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Remeber - its a neat little tag that is really quite powerful in the right hands, everything supports it but internet explorer, google made a plugin for IE but still no website uses canvas because you can't ignore the fact that no IE user has it (until HTML 5 if IE stays standards complient).
I would *love* opengl ES like 3d rendering in javascript, with a fast enough javascript engine you could do some great things, at the last you could make fluid websites without the need for a flash plugin eating up cpu... but alas i feel this is doomed to the same fate as our old google canvas plugin for IE.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes you did...
I might have a use for this (Score:4, Funny)
I just need a good 3D model of a 1953 Martian War Machine.
Papervision 3D (Score:2)
..blows this away... (imho, of course)
This engine isn't close to being ready for prime time yet.
Clipping? (Score:2)
Without clipping, demos like the island are basically useless.
Seems like people are missing the point. (Score:5, Interesting)
This, and the canvas/video tag (if implemented widely) and fast Javascript (V8/Spidermonkey) will kill flash.
Flat out kill it. It might take a little while, but before long it will die out as soon as comparable dev tools pop up (and they will, because it's open).
I have a feeling this will be big - not XMLHttpRequest big, but not too far off. Need proof that this will succeed? Look at the hacky ways this has been done - Javascript raytracers, animated GIFs, writing software renderers in Flash - and tell me that people won't utilize a proper alternative when it arises.
Re:Seems like people are missing the point. (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would you want to kill Flash? Flash is great:
* Large install base with very fast uptake on new versions.
* Great IDE, large ecosystem of code, developers and tools.
* Easy streaming of HD video to the browser.
* Great communication server, video chat is an example level project.
* Small file size for the plugin, support for Window, OS X and Linux.
Other then being open, what would your hodgepodge collection of technologies and tools offer over Flash?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Because it's performance blows on non-standard platforms? Because it's lack of support for 64-bit (well, last I checked) is a pain in the ass? Because it's a constant source of memory leaks and segfaults?
The day I can get rid of that stupid plugin will be a day I celebrate a lot.
Linux SketchUp Already? (Score:3, Insightful)
Google's main 3D project is SketchUp, an easy 3D modeling studio. But it's not available for Linux. And it runs crappy, if at all, in WINE. It's also nearly the only way (other than a really tricky multi-app process with Blender) to import 3D buildings into Google Earth. Which means that without a Linux SketchUp, it's nearly impossible to get Google Earth to place the buildings properly (it requires IPC which doesn't work with SketchUp running within WINE).
So if Google is going to spend programmer hours bringing 3D to the masses, how about finishing bringing SketchUp to Linux already?
VRML and X3D (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:VRML and X3D (Score:5, Funny)
the problem is coming up with something worth using it for.
Google StreetView 3D.
Or as it will probably (hopefully) be eventually known as: Grand Theft Auto: Streets of Google
Parent
Re:VRML (Score:5, Insightful)
Man... I thought we covered this with the last story related to the proposed Khronos 3d api. This is nothing like VRML. It is a javascript api to use graphics hardware.
Nothing to do with markup of any kind (aside from the xml in Collada, which is not necessarily part of the standard). Ugh.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Ugh... I think I might suck cocks on this one. I had assumed that since Google is part of the Khronos initiative, they were closer to the approach of Mozilla's canvas:3d, where the philosophy was to expose a significant subset of opengl so opengl programmers could jump right in. After reading this [google.com], I've come around to thinking O3D actually is kind of like VRML, unfortunately.
Re: (Score:2)
My thoughts exactly. I mean, sure, I have 32bit laptops, but anything I've bought since then is 64-bit...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
OMG
I MUST HAVE 64BIT EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHY!@$!%@#^%!@#%
You my friend are a fucking idiot for so many reasons.
Please name one practical reason why this has to be 64 bit. And please also specify if you mean 64 bit addressing or 64 bit words, and please explain specifically why it must be 64 bit.
Please do so quickly so I can tear you a new asshole before I go to sleep.