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Windows 7 RC Rush Crashes MSDN, TechNet Pages
Posted by
timothy
on Thu Apr 30, 2009 06:03 PM
from the unimited-desires-v-limited-resources dept.
from the unimited-desires-v-limited-resources dept.
CWmike writes "Microsoft Developers Network (MSDN) and TechNet paid subscribers were supposed to find the 32- and 64-bit editions of Windows 7 RC available for download today. But in a snafu reminiscent of the problems Microsoft had in January when it tried to launch Windows 7 Beta, the download pages for the release candidate were inaccessible, despite numerous attempts over an hour-long span up until about noon Eastern. TechNet and MSDN subscribers were not happy. 'Man, this stinks,' said a user identified as Lyle Pratt, on a TechNet message forum at 10 a.m. ET. 'I can't believe we can still bring MSDN to its knees!' said John Butler, a Microsoft partner. 'Surely, they should be able to deal with this? Not a good advert for Microsoft.' The Windows 7 RC is slated to be available for public download next Tuesday, May 5. Meanwhile, Microsoft said today that the RC would operate until June 2010, for 13 months of free use — a significantly longer time than it did with Vista's previews."
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Torrent? (Score:5, Funny)
Torrent links anyone?
Re:Torrent? (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspected the end user alpha release being "slashdotted" was a lame marketing game but if MSDN goes down, MS can't really maintain it, for real. For obvious reasons, they won't do the logical choice of running light httpd (Unix, God forbid) or similar on download server, they won't even bother calling Akamai.
Nobody can blame them for not offering a torrent though. Thanks to MPAA/RIAA and various ISPs, P2P, especially torrent is an issue for large companies. If Apple used P2P to distribute very large OS updates (e.g. combo ones, XCode), we could blame MS for not using the option. Ask Apple why they don't use.
BTW lets say you find a torrent from 3rd party, did the MS post its checksum (whatever system they use) to the download page or somewhere at site? I mean it doesn't look very right to "pirate" an operating system which has a huge industry abusing it. People torrenting it should either get MD5 from a trusted friend or MS. There are several "trojaned" Windows out there. It is the easiest way to have your own zombie army.
Parent
Commercial torrent is CDN (Score:3, Interesting)
Nobody can blame them for not offering a torrent though. Thanks to MPAA/RIAA and various ISPs, P2P, especially torrent is an issue for large companies.
Steam uses torrents.
Most large companies do not use torrents because they are a little complex for most users - the equivilent is that they use a CDN to distribute the content across many servers, served locally to the user (I know it's not exactly the same but it has a similar effect of distributing load). I wonder if Microsoft was using a CDN or trying to
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple could embed libtorrent and use its functionality (just like rtorrent) in Software Update which is a dedicated GUI application. Perhaps they know all kinds of junk will happen to their customers such as throttling, letters and even "cable modem freeze" the day they use that system for such general purpose operating system updates.
It is not simplicity, we have a company which can pack Mach/NeXT/FreeBSD and Carbon, get Unix 03 certificate and sell it as "World's easiest operating system". They sure know
Re: (Score:2)
"cable modem freeze"
The main cause of this is having the number of concurrent connections too high. If you set the default pretty low (10-20?), then most users shouldn't see any issues.
Another aspect, potential security... (Score:2)
Apple could embed libtorrent and use its functionality (just like rtorrent) in Software Update which is a dedicated GUI application.
True, since Steam also has basically an embedded torrent client... I think another possible reason might be they don't want the possibility of anyone injecting anything into the torrent. A CDN keeps things simple from their end and locks things down a little more.
Re:Commercial torrent is CDN (Score:5, Informative)
Steam uses a CDN, not torrents.
WoW uses bittorrent for the weekly patches though.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft and Akamai have a friendly relationship, but because they want to control the distribution they release everything on their site. That's something you really, truly, cannot do with torrents, because you can write your own torrent that ignores the tracker's rules on DHT.
No matter what your distribution method, you have to remember that they are distributing hundreds of terabytes of data over a tenuous and fragile internet infrastructure. It may not even be Microsoft's links that are failing when yo
Re: (Score:2)
That's something you really, truly, cannot do with torrents, because you can write your own torrent that ignores the tracker's rules on DHT.
Nobody would bother. This isn't like on private sites, where you can hack your client into reporting that you uploaded 2TB today to give you more credit, the only benefit from using a hacked client on MS's servers is a possibility that you'll acquire peers more quickly.
Re: (Score:2)
"...I suspected the end user alpha release being "slashdotted" was a lame marketing game but if MSDN goes down,..."
Eh?
Surely, you are not suggesting that Microsoft intentionally brought down their own server to give the impression people were crowding in line to download the RC?
That would be like a politician, up for re-election, committing Seppuku to impress voters (Hey, we can dream, can we not?)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Why would Microsoft PAY to not have this happen? Everybody who wants the RC will get it, in time. And now they have free publicity too.
I am not MS-head, but from what I gather, the MSDN works just fine under normal load.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Nobody can blame them for not offering a torrent though
Microsoft could use their own customized download tool that leverages bittorrent, but does not require publishing a .torrent file to the web or to torrent search engines for use with a non-Microsoft download client. For example the tool could pick up the torrent file from authorized servers only. I think there is really little excuse other than not undermining the anti-piracy FUD engine
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I suspect there is something going on with the packet identification in regard to WoW updates. Large ISPs are running very advanced systems to do such "conspire torrent downloaders" tricks and they could be identifying the WoW updates. Or more basically, ISP could be shutting down "conspire P2P" switch when Blizzard does updates.
I have actually used (via VNC) an American friend's system since I had hard time believing that his connection loses its mind when he runs torrent. It was amazing thing to see and I
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Do you think the ISP has an army of nerds in direct contact with Blizzard to 'turn off' conspire p2p when WoW patches? Not likely.
Agree. One or two geared raid groups should be able to pull it off.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Screen cap from MSDN [imgur.com]
en_windows_7_ultimate_rc_x86_dvd_349010.iso MD5 Hash: 8867c13330f56a93944bcd46dcd73590
en_windows_7_ultimate_rc_x64_dvd_347803.iso MD5 Hash: 98341af35655137966e382c4feaa282d
The x64 leak on mininova [mininova.org] has the same MD5
Not thinking (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft releases Vista/2008 SP2 AND Windows 7 RC AND Windows 2008 R2 RC AND Virtual PC RC AND the Windows 7 SDK on the same day and they don't expect to have bandwidth problems?
Geez, what were they thinking? SP2 should have come out on RTM day, that would at least cut a few hundred mb downloads out of the picture.
Re:Not thinking (Score:5, Insightful)
It's called Content Delivery Network, and in this case, Microsoft are using Akamai. Bandwidth shouldn't be a problem. I'm downloading Win 7 right now. People need to get a life... so what if they can't download at this very moment an RC of an unreleased OS? This isn't story isn't news; move on.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In "consumer alpha" slashdotting issue, people found the file and posted its link, directly from Akamai. Sorry for forgetting it in my post. The link worked perfectly and they downloaded it very good speed.
You know what was the issue? Their Windows server processing, the "key generation" part and the "passport sign in" part. It could be similar issue today and if you ask me, if it is the issue, people trusting their scalability issues (win 2008 downloaders) should think again.
Re:Not thinking (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft are using Akamai. Don't speculate, look at the URL in the Download Manager file that comes from the MSDN site, or look at the connections Download Manager has open during the download.
Parent
Zomg have to have it the first day! (Score:5, Funny)
They should have provided a torrent (Score:5, Insightful)
No joke. They should have provided a torrent. This type of distribution is what bittorrent excels at. It would have provided everyone with a better experience and saved MS some bandwidth.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They probably have CONTRACTS with Akamai.
You know, CONTRACTS that state something along th elines of "You gotta give us ur moneys all teh time you do major content delivery.".
Re: (Score:2)
It would have provided everyone with a better experience and saved MS some bandwidth.
It's worth noting that it doesn't provide everyone with a better experience - just the people downloading.
Anyone playing online games or visiting websites might notice the internet is running slower - not a better experience.
Though I would rather see torrents being used for stuff like this, rather than *cough* other purposes. :P
But if it can be distributed via CDN, then that's even better.
Patience is a virtue (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny way to turn the pirates over to their side. (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems Microsoft might be trying to make the best of a bad situation when it comes to people pirating their software, but turning them into beta testers. Sure you have to give them something for free but in the end you'll get a whole lot of people who would just pirate your software anyway doing a whole lot of free QA for you. Pretty smart move if you ask me.
Funnily enough I didn't hear anything about Microsoft pursuing the Pirate Bay for hosting the torrent of their latest builds, which seems to support this theory. Anyone seen anything?
Re:Funny way to turn the pirates over to their sid (Score:2)
Forget everything, can you believe the lemmings download it from Pirate sites? An operating system? Give me an NSA SE Linux ISO and I can modify it (with my low knowledge) the best trojan, spying, listening, watching OS ever. You got the OS install image to modify, can it get easier? :)
Even the highest of highest end antiviruses which can still sell for money gives no guarantee if they are installed to an already trojaned/wormed/rootkit infected system. That is why they always want to do a complete low leve
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well, when downloading Linux or other FOSS stuff you can check the md5 against the "official" md5 on the project site.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Forget everything, can you believe the lemmings download it from Pirate sites? An operating system?
I downloaded a copy of Vista 64 from a demonoid.com torrent. Already had a legit key from MSDNAA, just didn't have a copy of the x64 version. Microsoft puts the SHA1 sum for the ISO file on their MSDN site, so you can verify that it's an untampered copy. A bit like that cheesy scene (one of many) from the movie Swordfish, where Travolta barks to one of his cronies "Verify this!" and, after a pause, the compute
Re:Funny way to turn the pirates over to their sid (Score:4, Informative)
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/downloads/default.aspx?PV=36:350:DVD:en:x64 [microsoft.com]
SHA1: FC867FE1AB2E0A9796F9E4D155B44EA6998F4874
Parent
The brownouts have started! (Score:5, Funny)
Looks like this story [slashdot.org] was right!
Except my computer hasn't started to freeze and jitter. What's up with that?
Re: (Score:2)
I guess your ISP is very technical and you didn't see a "brownout". I have seen one, when the idiots (at billing) decided to give me IP but did not allow any data in or out. Some system parts were seriously shaken, frozen because they weren't coded with such possibility in mind. I reported all to my OS vendor and couple of apps vendors. One application became such a zombie that kill -9 didn't help. Reason? It was checking for updates. That is all! Some apps refused to display a GUI until I hand edited their
Is this the same one as on the tubes already? (Score:2)
The one the internets seemed to distribute (probably via Sweden) for a week now?
MS is doing it wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
That will happen naturally.
Let someone who doesn't like the bandwitdth issue post it as a torrent. Then if people start embedding Trojans MS can wash there hands of it.
got it from usenet a week ago (Score:2)
installed it a few days ago.
quite nice.
Typical /. (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't paint a very pretty picture of the FOSS community.
Re:WTF? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because it's what 80% of the world will be running in about a year?
Parent
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
But that was the point of Vista: to make whatever came next look revolutionary.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Does your XP disc dissolve at some point in the next 13 months?
If you're smart enough to get the RC running, you know how to re-install XP.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Dell went through a phase of making you burn the CDs yourself (and my parents own a couple of dells from that era) but they seem to have gone back to shipping them now (and unlike some vendors it's a proper windows CD/DVD that they ship).
I think every other PC new PC i've seen came with some form of reinstall CD/DVDs. Sometimes it's only a "wipe everything and restore to factory stage" CD/DVD though :( (and one downgraded optiplex I ordered through uni for a project there only seemed to come with the vista
Re: (Score:2)
If you're smart enough to get the RC running, you know how to re-install XP.
Also, if you're smart enough to get the RC running, you know how to get your data off a hard drive with a disabled OS.
The OS isn't dead and all your data is intact... (Score:5, Funny)
Which part of "insert credit card to continue" is confusing you?
Parent
Re:Surprise Surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
How is this a screw up on their part again? They release a preview of the next os and there is so much interest in it that they can't keep up with demand. That sounds like they did something right to get that kind of attention. Also Vista was released 2 years ago. I know it's fashionable to complain about MS but a 2 year cycle doesn't sound like rushing it out.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Or they simply lowered some of priorities in their servers? I mean, yes, Windows 7 has generated a lot of talk around but this is MSDN we talk about. Do you know how much some companies, developers pay for premium access to that system? Ask a Windows developer, you may be very surprised.
Re: (Score:2)
MSDN is only expensive for people who buy it straight from Microsoft's web site. Any company with volume licensing agreement or individuals going through a reseller can get it for like 900$/year for the premium edition (Team System are more expensive, but are actually cheaper, but a LOT, than the non-MS commercial alternatives...)
And that gives you a support contract and a bunch of other things. Really, its peanuts.
Anyway, point is, MSDN's private servers are arguably slower than the public ones a lot of th
Re: (Score:2)
Screwed up? Would YOU be commenting on it if everything went smoothly?
There is no such thing as bad press. Or, so Hollywood would have me believe, anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
(unless it's just a Microsoft trick to make people believe exactly that...)
Re:Windows 7 will be successful (Score:5, Funny)
You can often count on MSFT to sell you a partial solution to a problem they sold you.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, that's right, they sell anti-virus software [live.com] now, don't they?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Imbecile. It's common (nay, EXPECTED) in the software industry to use one's own products. It's referred to as "eating your own dog food". Fuck off with the "cool-aid" shit.
Also, the servers would be running on a server class OS. Windows 2008 Server, unless Windows 2010 Server has gone RC recently (it hasn't) - Microsoft actually does tend to use RCs of their own products on their servers, as most software companies do. I assume Apple does the same thing, and it wouldn't surprise me if Canonical updated