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Average User Only Runs 2 Apps, So Microsoft Will Charge For More

Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Feb 09, 2009 09:36 AM
from the so-it-can-charge-for-more dept.
Operating Systems Software Windows Microsoft
Barence writes "Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium. The three-app rule includes applications running in the background but excludes antivirus, and the company claims most users wouldn't be affected by the limit. 'We ran a study which suggested that the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time]. We would expect the limit of three applications wouldn't affect very many people.' However, Microsoft told journalists at last year's Professional Developers Conference that 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time."
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Submission: Microsoft says average user only runs 2 apps by Barence (1228440)
[+] Windows 7 Starter Edition — 3 Apps Only 695 comments
CrustyFace writes "Cybernit reports that the Starter Edition version of Windows 7 will only allow the user to run 3 applications at once. Targeted at notebooks, this doesn't seem like such a bad limitation, however it is a bold move from Microsoft, and it will be interesting to see how the operating system sells."
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  • Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium.

    Ok, ok, hold the phone. I bitched [slashdot.org] about this last time [slashdot.org] and I'll bitch about it again. Where is the official Microsoft statement?

    PCPro has an interview with a Microsoft product manager claiming this but I would assume everything is up in the air until it's officially released. Even he uses words like "we would" and makes it sound like this would only be available to OEMs. Which if you think about it is a great strategy because once a major OEM adopts a Windows, it's as good as gold. It doesn't matter to Microsoft if Dell's phone lines are awash with people trying to open up Windows Media Player while running anti-virus and IE, the deal is done at that point. Of course it will be sold only to OEMs; using them as insulation to the potential retaliation of consumers but you won't be able to pick it up in Best Buy.

    Quite frankly, I'm giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. I just did a Google search for Windows Vista: Compare editions [google.com] and the first set of links are all the official Microsoft Compare Editions site. I don't know how long that's been down for but click any of those links and it's broken. From a cache of Vista Starter edition I found this tidbit [74.125.47.132]:

    Windows Vista Starter is not available in developed technology markets such as the United States, the European Union, Australia, or Japan.

    So I would contend that Microsoft has already washed the slate of the Compare Editions campaign of Vista and put that behind them. They will wise up and change their mind about Windows 7 soon if they haven't already. And if they do have a starter edition--like they did with Vista--it will probably be shipped only on OEMs to undeveloped tech markets where consumers are glad to have a computer and lack a very American sense of entitlement to consumer rights.

    And if Microsoft only charges ~$10 for this edition of Windows 7, it may have a positive net effect for third world countries--although it makes you wonder how long other people will put up with shelling out $100 before finding an alternative.

    • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by syntap (242090) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:41AM (#26782979)

      And if Microsoft only charges ~$10 for this edition of Windows 7, it may have a positive net effect for third world countries

      I understand your point, but in that scenario a million licenses = $10mil, while a million Ubuntu licenses running Wine where Windows apps are really needed = $0. Seems to me a third-world nation could better put that $10million into machine guns or whatever else they buy.

      • Just reset your clock (Score:5, Funny)

        by BrokenHalo (565198) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:50AM (#26783131)
        Of course, the obvious alternative would be for people to just dig out their old copies of Windows 3.1.

        That could cope quite well with running two applications, just so long as you didn't sneeze or look at the machine sideways. But the proviso of course applies just as much to later releases. The advantage here is that your two applications will run (or crash) blazingly fast...

        *ducks* ;-)

        • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jtev (133871) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:30AM (#26783771) Journal
          Actually, they are. With a machine gun you get something that is usefull, that has a real physical presence, and which can help to either prop up your government, or overthrow it, depending on who is doing the buying. It can assist you in getting food, mates, status, and a nice warm fuzzy. It can defend your village, or it can be used to raid other villages. All in all, the machine gun sounds like a much better purchase. Now, no, this isn't the way to make the world a better place, but the logic is sound. The same money that would e spend on Windows licences can also be spent on food, on clothing, on soldiers, on graft, on construction projects to gloify the Great Leader, or any number of other things. Some of these things matter to the citizens, some matter to the government. Either way, Windows seems like a bad investment to me.

    • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Informative)

      by urbanriot (924981) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:15AM (#26783523)
      This is an anti-Microsoft Slashdot posting. It does not require citations or proof!

    • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JeffSpudrinski (1310127) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:42AM (#26783987)

      I know I'm going out on a limb here, but I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing.

      Remember: most, if not all, of us here are definitely "power users". We won't even consider running a "starter" version of anything. However, we support a LOT of folks (e.g. family, friends, co-workers) who are not as tech-savvy as we are. How many times have you tried to troubleshoot over the phone for a system that's "running slow" (which is the only description of the problem you get) and you ask "how many applications are you running?" followed by the awkward silence, then a response of "I don't know".
      Then you finally figure out that they are running 15 things that they don't need to run and you try to talk them through disabling them, etc...

      Windows Starter Edition = Starter Windows User.

      When they learn the ins and outs of the system, then they can upgrade to more powerful versions.

      You also can't tell me that if there wasn't some reg hack or utility that would limit the number of apps that could be run that you wouldn't configure that on your parent's/kid's computers. (There may be something like that, but if there is, I don't know it).

      The solution is simple: If you don't like that limitation, then don't buy that version of Windows.

      I can think of a couple of users I support that this would definitely simplify things quite a bit.

      • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by wisty (1335733) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:56AM (#26783245)

        Well, they could just restrict it to 3 non-MS apps. IE, MSN, Media player, and Word would all work. That way after the anti-virus / firewall and a piece of crapware from the OEM the customer still has a slot left for a game or something. I'm sure they'll find a loophole from the antitrust suits.

        While I'll be enjoying Snow Leopard, or Jaunty ;).

        • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by tenco (773732) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:07AM (#26783385)

          Well, they could just restrict it to 3 non-MS apps. IE, MSN, Media player, and Word would all work.

          Me thinks that the European Commission will strike against this. For the same reasons it did the last times.

        • This will be great for virtualization (Score:5, Insightful)

          by goombah99 (560566) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:29AM (#26783731)

          This is going to be great for power users--the kind that read slashdot.

          Why? chances are you want to use Linux or a mac but you can't because the typical user has a handful of application that
          1) they have to run concurrently
          2) that require windows.

          For example, a lot of people MUST use windows (or a mac) because they have no alternative to running Word or Excell or some enterprise app.

          but really just how many apps require MS?

          the thing keeping virtualization from taking off is that windows is not cheap. But with a starter edition it could be made cheap.

          run sun's virtual box. then you can run windows and linux seamlessly at the same time. FOr the aplications that require windows you use windows.

          this would probably work out well.

          However it won't actually work for the low end user. The lowend user is not going to have the sophistication to run two operating systems.

          It may work out however for the high enduser that has the savy and extra computer resources needed to virtualize

          • Re:This will be great for virtualization (Score:5, Funny)

            by blueZ3 (744446) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:40AM (#26783943) Homepage

            Not only that, but you could just install Linux and virtualization software and have three Windows VMs open at once for a total of 9 running apps.

            This is typical of MS though--something not completely thought out that's going to have unintended consequences and where they'll change their policy after the outrage turns into a tidal wave of discontent... kinda like Congress.

            • Poor Microsoft is just misunderstood. (Score:5, Insightful)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 09 2009, @10:56AM (#26784251)
              "This is typical of MS though--something not completely thought out that's going to have unintended consequences..."

              It's NOT unintended consequences. It's intended. You probably think Microsoft is a software company that is sometimes abusive. It's not. It's an abuse company that uses software as a way of delivering abuse.

              Yes, it's my opinion. But I'm not the only one.

        • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Funny)

          by Walt Dismal (534799) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:49AM (#26784107)
          A Microsoft study has shown that users seldom use all 26 letters during a session, and so the economy-priced Windows 7 Functional Illiterate Edition will only support A through W and the numerals 0 through 7. However, the software will be endorsed by Sesame Street and today is brought to you by the letter "/".

      • Re:To Err is Human--to Persist is Microsoft? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Hordeking (1237940) on Monday February 09 2009, @11:03AM (#26784385)

        If they do Starter Edition again, I agree that it is unlikely to be targeted to or even released in the US. Even excluding AV/Firewall apps from this completely fucktarded 3 app limit, I'd imagine that the group of people in the US getting computers from OEMs like Dell, particularly laptops, could include a sizeable amount of high school and college age people. These people are very likely to use media player, a web browser, and MS Word simultaneously all the time. a 3 app limit is completely bonkers. They may also want to run background apps like AIM, Skype, Bittorrent, email client (If they don't just use gmail web interface), etc etc. Restricting the main stream Windows would be epic fail for MS in that kind of market. If it really is targeted as the generic OEM version like Vista Home/XP Home is now, it should support at least 5 or 6 concurrent apps so students don't have to close AIM to write a paper, or ever have to choose between totally normal behaviour or restricted crap like that. It'll just drive up piracy of WinXP even more, or drive up support calls and angry customers.

        Don't worry. No one will ever think to crack this version to allow unlimited applications to run concurrently.

      • These people are very likely to use media player, a web browser, and MS Word simultaneously all the time. a 3 app limit is completely bonkers. They may also want to run background apps like AIM, Skype, Bittorrent, email client (If they don't just use gmail web interface), etc etc.

        Forget that, if they did a Starter edition in 'the developed world', I don't think the machine would even get past the login screen given how many crud "For your protection" apps most big brand vendors install to run in the background.

  • Average User Only Runs 2 Apps... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cornwallis (1188489) * on Monday February 09 2009, @09:39AM (#26782945)
    before Windows starts crashing.

  • What's an 'application' to a user? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by onion2k (203094) * on Monday February 09 2009, @09:39AM (#26782947) Homepage

    id they explain to the users what "an application" is? I'm sure a quick straw poll around non-IT guys in my office asking "How many things are you running?" would result in a similar number, but then if I explained that "the internet" is a browser application, that "listening to my music" is a media player app, that "getting my email" is a mail client, and so on would bump the number up to a couple of visible apps like Word and Excel plus a futher three or four concurrent applications that are essentially invisible.

    Another effect could also be to drive the usage of things like Google Docs further in the home marketplace. If you can't run Word but you can run a browser it'd make much more sense to use a browser based application.

    Mind you, this could have an 'unexpected' benefit. Anyone running a bot would find they can't open a browser or play music or something. People would have a good incentive to make sure their PC is only running what it should be running.

    • Re:What's an 'application' to a user? (Score:5, Funny)

      by should_be_linear (779431) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:55AM (#26783229)

      Wait, Internet browser is not application, it is part of OS. At least thats what Microsoft told us.

    • Re:What's an 'application' to a user? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:56AM (#26783237) Journal
      It's almost like they are trying to hand the market to Google and the webapp gang.

      Browser + MP3 player + IM app = "oh, shit, can't open Email."

      Gmail + Gtalk + Google Apps + Pandora = still two local app slots open.

      I realize that shipping various flavors of crippleware is a standard price discrimination tactic; but if a substantial percentage of your company's value hinges on the survival of win32 apps as a relevant segment, isn't limiting the number of win32 apps your OS will run a pretty fucktarded move?

  • Intel/AMD are screwed (Score:5, Funny)

    by should_be_linear (779431) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:40AM (#26782959)

    This means that 2 cores should be enough for everybody !

  • getting old (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 09 2009, @09:42AM (#26782987)
    This is getting really old. At no point has Microsoft even hinted that the Starter Edition would be used on netbooks. It is made for developing nations. Period. Just because a few random blogs found out that the Starter Edition exists and started going "OMFG, MS is going to put this on netbooks" doesn't make it so. Everything else that's come out about this is pure speculation based on rumors started by those same idiot bloggers.

    And that's why I can't stand blogs and bloggers.

    The End

  • In other words... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ledow (319597) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:43AM (#26783013) Homepage

    In other words... we don't want anybody to buy our cheapest product, so we'll enforce a ludicrous restriction never used in any other OS or software company before, with some statistical justification in the hopes that people will "think" we offer cheap products but still buy the expensive ones which are virtually identical but have a one-bit flag difference between them.

    The average user might only use one or two "apps" but it's the definition of apps that's the problem. Apparently AV isn't an app, by this definition. But a firewall might be. A utility to check your startup entries might be. What about the Adobe Reader Speed Launcher, is that an app? Notepad? This is the problem - they are drawing a boundary where it doesn't make ANY sense to anybody. To users, their startup entries are not apps. But to the professional, a startup entry which works around the app limit could well be the downfall of the entire system that could allow companies or charities to save money by buying the cheaper Starter editions.

    They are trying to introduce an artificial limitation based on the intended use, rather than just targetting the intended use - cheap, compatible, standard, available for home use. Instead, they want you to "think" that somebody actually buys that crap and that you are a "power user" because you have more than three apps open, thus leading you to believe that you have to buy a "more powerful" operating system for more money.

    It's crap. Nobody will buy it, like nobody bought the other starter editions... because it's an artificial limitation for no good, technical reason.

  • Pricing Rational? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dmomo (256005) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:43AM (#26783017) Homepage

    What is the extra cost to MS for allowing users run more apps? What is the cost savings for restricting to two? Unless there is something significant here... the pricing structure is just silly.

    Can I just write a meta app that runs multiple apps beneath it? I'm sure it's not as easy as it sounds... but I'd expect to see some pretty clever work arounds.

    Microsoft DOES want people to like their product, don't they?

  • Is it April 1 already ? (Score:5, Funny)

    by EMB Numbers (934125) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:52AM (#26783175)

    Is it April Fool's day already ?

  • Enough with the FUD! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by abigsmurf (919188) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:00AM (#26783285)

    You will NEVER see this edition in the west. This is designed for ultra poor countries and it's a fraction of the price of other editions. The version you will see on netbooks will be Home Basic (the most logical version for a fully compatible, budget laptop), not this.

    Has anyone even seen a computer with Vista/XP starter edition?

    The FUD surrounding Windows 7 is getting increasingly desperate each day. Slashdot is almost becoming a parody of itself on this front. If there's valid things to criticise MS on then fine but don't twist things around in a desperate bid to make them look evil in such a pathetic manner.

      • Re:Enough with the FUD! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by abigsmurf (919188) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:16AM (#26783549)

        Yeah, how stupid of them to sell a version of windows that's legal at only $5 or so more than it would cost them to buy a pirated version (if they're that poor they're not exactly going to be on a bittorrent friendly internet connection).

        Even in poor countries, if you're spending $300 on a PC, $10-$15 to have a legal, rootkit free OS, even one that isn't fully featured, makes it hard to justify Piracy. $15 premium for system builders to be able to claim that their PC's are 100% legal and legit?

  • Is this the 70s ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by slashdotlurker (1113853) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:05AM (#26783373)
    And did I miss the transition to a multi-tasking OS somewhere ?

  • Question (Score:5, Funny)

    by PPH (736903) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:08AM (#26783417)
    Does the Ubuntu installer count as only one app?

  • Clippy says (Score:5, Funny)

    by yanyan (302849) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:17AM (#26783565)

    Hi! It looks like you're trying to run more than two applications, which is currently not allowed! Would you like to:

    - shoot yourself in the other foot (you brought this upon yourself in the first place)
    - throw a chair at the nearest bystander
    - do the monkey dance while yelling "applications applications applications!"
    - write an internal memo whining about your new netbook not being able to do actual work

  • What are the news? (Score:5, Informative)

    by vshade (1451739) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:23AM (#26783641)
    Here in Brazil we have starter editions since before Vista, and the xp starter was even more crippled, it didn't allowed resoltions greater than 1024x768, and even though there were computers with this windows and 17" lcd monitors, wich have a native resoltion of 1280x1024, forcing everyone who bought those to have a blurred screen

  • Crippled like XP Home (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tenco (773732) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:43AM (#26784005)

    I had to use a XP Home edition on a laptop that wouldn't run Linux/*BSD without pains 2-3 years ago. (That XP came preinstalled with the laptop accompanied by a rescue CD that extracted an image into a partition. This would result in a XP installation with lots of other crap preinstalled.)

    So I first got my backups (as administrator of course) unpacked onto the XP Home box and tried to change the permissions on that backup so that it could be accessed by an account with normal user privileges. It took me nearly half an hour to realize that XP Home doesn't let you change permissions on files. Another half one to find the way Microsoft thinks this should work (Copying into a folder called sth like public documents or so. Hardrive was 80GB large and I had ~60GB of backups.). I finally found a HOWTO on the net for making a XP Professional (nearly feature complete) out of my Home edition and an installation CD using BartPE.

    Result: even XP has editions which are crippled beyond being useful. This is hardly news.

  • Monopoly Mindset (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mlwmohawk (801821) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:55AM (#26784241)

    This quote, even if not an official policy of Microsoft is indicative of the monopolistic mindset of a tyrant.

    There is *no* technological reason or justification to limit the number of applications that can be run. The *only* reason to even think of doing this is that if you are confident that no one can compete with you.

    In a truly competitive environment, *NO* ISV could dare even think of this. The instant that you artificially limit your software, competition eats you up.

    We, as an industry, REALLY REALLY need to nuke Microsoft. They are anti-customer (this), anti-worker (H1B), andi-freedom (DRM), and anti-competitive.

    • Re:Evil Empire (Score:5, Insightful)

      by walt-sjc (145127) on Monday February 09 2009, @09:46AM (#26783067)

      heh! I posted that quote before I saw yours... And it is dead on. (Yours is more accurate - I was going from memory :-)

      It's funny that MS hasn't figured this out yet. But they, like the rest of the world, are going through some shrinking (layoffs) and are scrambling to find a way to recover that revenue. This isn't a good way of doing it however - charge more for optional software - not the base. If you squeeze the base too much, you push people out of your platform (and get NO additional sales of add-on products) and grow the market for alternatives. It's a downward spiral that is not smart.

      • Re:Evil Empire (Score:5, Funny)

        by binarylarry (1338699) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:09AM (#26783435)

        Liar!

        This is a fantastic business strategy that will no doubt cause Microsoft to grow by leaps and bounds in the near future.

        As a Microsoft shareholder, I am glad my interests are being taken care of. Microsoft knows there is a huge market for crippleware and they are seizing the opportunity to corner yet another market.

        Microsoft, please continue on this fantastic path to ensure your future survival and to crush rival operating systems like Youbuntoo and Mac OS X.

    • Windows 7 (Score:5, Funny)

      by PinkyDead (862370) on Monday February 09 2009, @10:10AM (#26783445) Journal

      Princess Leia: I'd rather kiss a Wookie.

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