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KDE Project Invites Ideas With Online Brainstorm
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Mar 25, 2009 02:01 AM
from the gnome-project-has-telepathy dept.
from the gnome-project-has-telepathy dept.
ruphus13 writes "In addition to working with the community for source code, KDE is looking to democratize idea creation and innovation via its new initiative called KDE Brainstorm. The initiative, which attempts to further decentralize roadmap decision-making by allowing popular ideas to be voted up, is outlined here: 'The KDE team recently announced the KDE Brainstorm initiative. KDE Brainstorm, in practice, works much like Dell's IdeaStorm — community members of all walks of life are invited to chip in their ideas for new and improved features and functions, with the wider community voting on (and fleshing out) these ideas. Ideas that generate enough interest are then reviewed further by developers, who work to make them happen. KDE Brainstorm officially rolled out March 20th, and the response over these first few days has been enthusiastic. In less than 24 hours, over 100 new ideas were proposed.'"
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*storm (Score:3, Insightful)
First Dell's IdeaStorm*, then Ubuntu's Brainstorm, And now KDE's Brainstorm. I guess the whole "get ideas from your constituents" thing actually works.
But why do their names all have a *storm pattern?
*Actually, I think Lego beat them to it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
But why do their names all have a *storm pattern?
Because it's perfect.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, 'brainstorm' has been around for a while as an English word.
Though, just wait: Microsoft will buck the trend, trying to be a trend-setting force in the market, and come out with some sort of derivative. Like, maybe, Brainorgy. Or Wetware. Or something like that.
Though, seriously: I can see popular OS and application vendors making something like this much more common. Not only does it allow users to be more involved in deciding which bugs are the most irritating (on the desktop), or which features sho
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Zunestorm?
Said with no wish for partisanship (Score:3, Insightful)
I wish KDE would adopt at least some of Gnome's Human Interface Guidelines. It'd help everyone if the Linux desktops came together in that respect, at least to ditch those silly Windows-centric "Cancel/Apply/OK" preference dialogues which don't offer any reason not to be done more simply.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows-centric
Also, SUSE should drop that Windows-centric Start menu, and Ubuntu needs to drop that Mac-centric panel at the top of the screen. /sarcasm
Not every UI decision originally implemented by MS* is a bad one.
*or did MS adopt that from something else?
"Cancel/Apply/OK" preference dialogues which don't offer any reason not to be done more simply.
Any suggestions on how it could be done simpler? And will your suggestion allow the same degree of control?
The only idea I have is to drop the 'Cancel' for being redundant with the 'Close' button in the corner.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Any suggestions on how it could be done simpler? And will your suggestion allow the same degree of control?
The only idea I have is to drop the 'Cancel' for being redundant with the 'Close' button in the corner.
Yes. Gnome, XFCE, and OSX do it. You click an option, it takes effect. Don't like it? Just put it back. Optionally, the dialogue can have a revert or defaults button.
Gnome's gone a bit far in the direction of stripping down features, but overall, I like the uncluttered presentation. I'd love to
Re: (Score:2)
Instant-apply is only used for quick, non-destructive options. You can read the guidelines here:
http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/windows-utility.html.en
Re: (Score:2)
The Windows way:
Save?
Yes / no / cancel.
The Macintosh way:
Save?
Save / don't save / cancel.
Re: (Score:2)
The Windows way: Save? Yes / no / cancel.
The Macintosh way: Save? Save / don't save / cancel.
The KDE way (just checked)
Save/Cancel
What is the difference between "don't save" and "cancel", anyway?
Though I actually agree that the "OK/Apply/cancel" for preference dialogs should be different, namely "Save&Close/Save/Cancel".
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You hit the exit button, and this pops up.
There are many places where there are multiple operations occurring at one time.
Please no (Score:2)
Better than Ubuntu's (Score:2)
Maybe it does already (Score:3, Interesting)
And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta where you can drag a window to a screen border and it resizes to the screen height and 1/2 the screen width. I imagine that this would be easy to do as a plugin for KDE, but (so far) I haven't been able to find one.
I think it's great that there's now a place to 'request' features like this instead of on the KDE wiki or emailing the devs directly (hey, they're busy and don't always have time to reply, which I understand). On that note, I do my little bit by submitting src patches and (more often) editing the KDE wikis; I figure that each little bit helps.
Re:Maybe it does already (Score:5, Informative)
And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta where you can drag a window to a screen border and it resizes to the screen height and 1/2 the screen width. I imagine that this would be easy to do as a plugin for KDE, but (so far) I haven't been able to find one.
KDE does have a feature that is similar, but not the same.
If you right mouse click on the "maximise" button, the window maximises in the VERTICAL direction ONLY. Similarly, you can maximise to full width by clicking with the middle button.
Unfortunately, I don't know of anything to expand to 1/2 height or width.
Parent
OT: Microsoft Windows (Score:2)
And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta...
Heh, just try comparing Windows 7 unfavorably to KDE or Gnome or even previous versions of the software in a Windows 7 story and you'll get modded a troll like I did. :P
Anyway, the same feature you liked annoyed me yesterday, but that may just be the old fogey in me. KDE4 annoys me similarly when it shrinks all my windows to postage stamp size at half-alpha which I'm guessing is supposed to allow
Re: (Score:2)
And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta where you can drag a window to a screen border and it resizes to the screen height and 1/2 the screen width. I imagine that this would be easy to do as a plugin for KDE, but (so far) I haven't been able to find one.
Here is the feature request for that very feature on KDE's Bugzilla:
Resize windows based on drag location [kde.org]
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Solved [sourceforge.net].
Hmmm (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What's with all the hate? (Score:3, Insightful)
Every time there's a story about KDE a number of people complain, saying it's a failure, that the 4.x-series are dead and so on. Where does all this come from? KDE is one of the high profile open source applications along with gnome, apache, and others so it should be in our common interest to have it succeed.
Why the need for all the trash-talk? Why not focus on the positive? KDE does some things great, as does gnome and others. Constructive criticism is fine but "KDE4 sucks" is hardly constructive.
It's not like we need to fight amongst ourselves. There are plenty of other opponents out there that we could focus on. Now we're only weakening our position. I just don't get it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm, I don't think it's "hate" as such, more profound disappointment. I can't speak for others, but KDE 3.5 was moving along nicely, was functional and had *heaps* of apps to make it a complete desktop. With Compiz Fusion added it was even damn flash, but the main thing is that it did the job and enough apps were available to create some flexibility.
Along comes 4 and whammo - I even have trouble finding a decent WiFi manager. All those 3.5 apps I was used to don't have a 4 replacement, and I don't really
Re: (Score:2)
Hi cheros. I understand your frustration; I loved KDE 3.5.x and used it daily as my primary desktop environment. Along came KDE 4.x and I was shocked. I couldn't work using it. It was complete, unusable, crap. This has been discussed ad infinitum, so I won't really add more. However, since 4.0 was released I've been keeping up with the progress and compile the sources once a week on Saturdays as an excuse to drink beer.
Although I still don't think it's up-to-scratch, KDE 4.x has improved a lot. Finally, two
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Having spent a lot of time just to get the latest 4.x version, 4.2 running, I'm still very, very disappointed. All that made KDE so good is gone. Keyboard shortcuts are more limited now and occasionally don't work at all, file management is much worse, the launch menu is primitive compared to what it was (and whilst Lancelot can replace it, it isn't as good as the 3.x version was), plenty of useful, small apps no longer work like they should and finally, it's still quite buggy. I do wonder what they were th
Re: (Score:2)
I cannot argue with your well presented points. You are, of course, correct. KDE pre 4.x was, to me, a great environment to work in. Then came 4.x and, well, to put it bluntly: it was broken. In many respects it still is broken. Your points are valid, strong and hard to dispute. In short, you're correct. I guess the stance that I am taking is that the decision has been made, and the changes implemented (or, more truthfully, partially or attempted to be implemented).
Is it really a good idea to make so much from scratch just so that anybody that has just written "hello world" can proceed to easily write a widget, which sits on your desktop and says "hello world, the weather today is..." The KDE developers have strange priorities.
In many ways I agree with what you're sayi
Re: (Score:2)
Take back my first reply to you Anonymous Coward. Your points are 100% correct. I took a defensive position and after pondering it for a bit I see your point(s). Despite the new goals that I inferred or guessed and that, in my original reply, I have a sinking feeling now. In light of your points my counter-points seem hollow.
Re: (Score:2)
I vote they copy Twitter for KDE5.
Re: (Score:2)
Furthermore, file management doesn't work well anymore - I was used to being able to move icons in windows but now they all align to a grid no matter what, which sort of defeats the purpose of a graphical file manager.
Here is the feature request for that issue:
Option to not align icons to grid [kde.org]
Re:What's with all the hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
Hmm, I don't think it's "hate" as such, more profound disappointment. I can't speak for others, but KDE 3.5 was moving along nicely, was functional and had *heaps* of apps to make it a complete desktop. With Compiz Fusion added it was even damn flash, but the main thing is that it did the job and enough apps were available to create some flexibility.
Those KDE 3.5 applications you like still exist, they didn't go away. You can use them with KDE 4.x, 3.5, Gnome, or many other desktop environments.
Along comes 4 and whammo - I even have trouble finding a decent WiFi manager. All those 3.5 apps I was used to don't have a 4 replacement, and I don't really want to be a whining git asking the developers of every single app to upgrade their code (which is AFAIK not that easy either) - besides, I don't have the time.
So use the WiFi manager you like. Personally, I use KnetworkManager. I believe that is a KDE 3.x application.
So 4.0 was for me going from a functional 3.5 desktop to a black hole. I won't bitch about it, I occasionally check in and see if the situation has improved. So far, the answer is "not really", so I'll use Gnome of a lighter desktop.
Sorry, this is an attitude I don't understand. If you like KDE 3.5, but don't like KDE 4.x, why go to Gnome (or other desktop), just use KDE 3.5, it's still available. It seems like people are cutting their noses off to spite their faces (that is assuming are actually changing their desktop and not trolling)
It also means that I can no longer wean people off Windows because KDE 4 just doesn't cut it yet as a replacement.
So why not show them KDE 3.5 instead.
A quote from the KDE website:
"KDE 3.5 is the more mature version of KDE. For more conservative users, this is the recommended version of KDE."
In summary, to me, going to KDE 4 was as much an upgrade to 3.5 as Vista was an upgrade to XP..
What I'd like is simply what 3.5 was offering, stable compiz fusion graphics added (flashiness aside, a cube is actually quite a good working desktop model from a functionality point of view) and a complete array of apps form printing, WiFi (well, OK, that still sucks in seven ways to Sunday on Linux IMHO).
Having said that, I'll probably buy a Mac instead. Functionality without the risk or hassle..
So, why not stick with KDE 3.5 for the time being??? You aren't being forced to go to 4.x.
Personally, I now use KDE 4.2 on all of my machines (both home and work). I really like the "Cover Switch" alt-tab tool.
I tried KDE 4.0 and 4.1 and didn't like them. I stayed with KDE 3.5. I found KDE 4.1.3 OK and made the switch.
Parent
Re:What's with all the hate? (Score:4, Informative)
Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore and bugs for 3.5 aren't being fixed because efforts concentrate on kde 4.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore and bugs for 3.5 aren't being fixed because efforts concentrate on kde 4.
Which of the major distros don't carry KDE 3.5 any more?? I use openSUSE and it is most certainly available.
Looking at http://www.kde.org/download/#v3.5 [kde.org] there appear to be binary packages for Fedora, Kubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE
Whilst a lot of effort is going into KDE 4.x, the 3.5 line still seems to be worked on.
Re: (Score:2)
Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore and bugs for 3.5 aren't being fixed because efforts concentrate on kde 4.
Which of the major distros don't carry KDE 3.5 any more?? I use openSUSE and it is most certainly available.
Looking at http://www.kde.org/download/#v3.5 [kde.org] there appear to be binary packages for Fedora, Kubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE
Whilst a lot of effort is going into KDE 4.x, the 3.5 line still seems to be worked on.
Actually, they have a point. It has little to do with KDE, but with the Qt 3.x series, which has been discontinued and is basically unmaintained. Noone has stepped up to maintain it, and thus distributors are loath to carry packages that depends on qt 3.5. kdelibs4 (aka kde 3) are still maintained, but in bugfixing mode.
Re: (Score:2)
Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore...
How exactly is that the KDE developers' fault?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Note, I am not the grand father poster.
I can't. I set the global hot key in any kde3 application running in KDE4.x and the hot key doesn't work, preventing me from using the applications.
Kubuntu actually, not KDE. Thus, not available on all distros.
Re: (Score:2)
When did you last use KDE4? I've been running KDE 4.2 since a little before its release, and all the applications I need work including a pretty good network-manager plasmoid; and I find kwin4 *way* superior to compiz-fusion. The effects are well thought out and actually useful. (And yes, it has a cube, but that's just eyecandy.) Before January I was running gnome+compiz-fusion, for pretty much the reasons you say.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What's with all the hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed - I had my doubts about KDE 4 and thought it was terrible when I tried the 4.0 and 4.1 releases. However, now I've been using 4.2 since it came out, and when I recently set up another computer I tried to go back to 3.5 (it's a netbook and I figured 3.5 would be faster) and I couldn't. I got used to the improvements in 4.x and don't want to go back.
Which is not to say there aren't still features in 3.5 not in 4.x yet that I dearly miss. KDE's not quite there yet and I can see why many still wouldn't want to switch. But despite their gaff with 4.0 - which I think really was a bad move - 4.x is coming along nicely and in time most people will realize this and start using it.
My point is that the "KDE 4 sucks" talk is the natural result of people resisting change, combined with some pretty big mistakes the KDE devs made (the 4.0 release and the many still-missing features from 3.5, for example.) It'll die out within the next couple of major KDE 4 releases, I suspect.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
KMail is a lot better. The desktop has more funtionality, if you like plasmoids (SuperKaramba doesn't compare).
Re: (Score:2)
A sincere question: What are those improvements? I'm using 4.2 but haven't noticed any improvements - only more eye-candy and I don't appreciate any eye-candy one bit.
They did a crapload of work on the system tray and notifications -- IMHO the new system tray is a massive improvement even on the 3.5 one.
Re: (Score:2)
The methodology of those controls arent eficient.
I don't understand. The study of the controls isn't efficient? Ok...
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, let me rephrase myself: The study of the method of the controls? My head hurts.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have to agree with you; to a degree. Not only is 'methodology' a valid word, but its misuse has become so common that people routinely use 'methodology' when they really mean 'method'; almost as if the two are synonymous. And, in many peoples' minds, they are. But they're not. I'm not normally overly pedantic, but this is one of the few cases of misuse that really irks me. I don't really care about grammar or syntax (hey, I can't write for sh*t), but the use of that word (journals, I am looking at you) in
Re:Cashew - PLEASE provide a way to get rid of it. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
This is NOT a troll. What he says is a valid point. Can't you see what happened to KDE.
Yes, it still has bugs. Hardly news on major rewrite.
It's still a troll.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
neither posts above are troll. seems the trolls have mod points today. Bad troll! No donut for you today
I use KDE full time. KDE 4.1 - 4.2.1 are still unusable
4.1 was a development snapshot, but when 4.2 was released it was promoted as equal to 3.5.10 - this is not the case.
I compiled 4.2.1 on FreeBSD over last weekend and found an irritating delay to user input: mouse click anything and start finger tapping for 30 seconds waiting for something to happen. Seems all user input and system response suffers lon
Re:The true problem is X (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, these days we have billions times more powerful 'dumb terminals' and billions more powerful servers.
Here is my personal experience -- My Windows games, with all the settings maxed out, perform better (can be even 20fps difference) running under Wine/Crossover+x.org+Linux than natively under Windows. The only issue graphically is fonts, and that's caused by patent issues.
In my personal opinion, I think x11 is doing far better than Windows and OS X (considering that games tend to perform worse with crossover games mac than they do with crossover games linux) is.
The implementation of x.org does have it's issues, but these aren't issues in the x11 specification, GEM should be fixing these issues. I have written a bit on the subject [livejournal.com].
Overhead that seems to be beating Windows on the same hardware. I'm not convinced it's a issue.
Once or twice, but I have ran plenty of applications remotely on my local xserver - I do it all the time. VNC doesn't give me application specific windows, or allow applications to communicate with the rest of my desktop applications, or use the theming of my desktop, or work well on very low latency connections (I use compressed ssh tunnels - doesn't work well with VNC), or allow desktop composition to work, or do 3d acceleration... I can go on, but I see no point.
Perhaps you should give first theoretical examples? And then give practical applications of real world instances where this happens. While, I am aware of some theoretical disadvantages, they're not really a issue practically speaking.
There is a lot of random rubbish you find in that documentation like "Unreadable window attributes", whereby it's been a non-issue for a while now because the freedesktop specifications provided a suitable workaround for this ages ago on how WMs etc. should communicate with each other and applications.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
The client-server architecture of X is just overhead in most cases.
You do know that when you run both client and server locally it works over shared memory for practically no overhead right? You know that in benchmarks X11 demonstrates that it performs very well indeed (often better than Windows or Mac) at raw drawing speed (and raw drawing is all X11 really does). If you're worried about slowness then point the finger at GTK+ or Qt or Cairo or whatever other higher layer seems to be slow for you. It probably isn't X11.
Tell me, how many times did you attach to remote Xserver?
Every god damn day! It's great functionality that work
Re: (Score:2)
Somewhere between KDE 4.1 and KDE 4.2, the KDE developers decided that MySQL was required for a desktop. Not mysql-libs, but a full-on MySQL server. The offending application requiring this dependancy is Akonadi, which is part of KDE's PIM. And what are they using MySQL for? As a cache to pass data between desktop applications.
Wrong, sorry. It uses MySQL-Embedded, not a "full-on MySQL server". I believe there is an option to use a fully-featured MySQL daemon in its own process, but it's off by default. Please make a habit of actually checking the facts before you go off on a rant about something.