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The Pirate Bay Comes To Facebook
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Mar 29, 2009 05:22 PM
from the sharing-face-to-face dept.
from the sharing-face-to-face dept.
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "According to a report I just read in Mashable, Pirate Bay is coming to Facebook. Writer Ben Parr says that The Pirate Bay site now includes links under torrents to 'Share on Facebook.' Once posted to a profile, the Facebook member's friends can click the link on Facebook to begin the download right away, provided he or she already has a torrenting client installed. I just hope people do not use this feature to download copyrighted materials which are not authorized to be downloaded, or at least not materials copyrighted to litigation-happy RIAA Big 4 record labels. No doubt, if their song files were downloaded through this method, the record companies would sit back for awhile, derive profit from the promotional excitement generated for their dying industry, and then — armed with Facebook's data — sue the pants off all the hapless Facebook users who fell for it."
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Facebook Cuts Off Pirate Bay Links 137 comments
narramissic writes "Citing legal reasons, Facebook has ended its brief relationship with The Pirate Bay. The Pirate Bay added a 'Share on Facebook' button around two weeks ago to its site that allowed its users to post links to small information files on Facebook that are used to download audio, video, etc. via BitTorrent. Facebook is now blocking those 'bookmarklets' as well as any links from The Pirate Bay, said Peter Sunde, of The Pirate Bay. Sunde said he received an e-mail from Facebook justifying the action because of the legal proceedings against Sunde and three others. The men are awaiting return of a verdict on April 17 from a trial that concluded early last month in Stockholm. They are charged with helping to make available material under copyright."
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Not Really (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not Really (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:4, Interesting)
are you enabling someone to download or find pirated content? Then the RIAA might have something to say about that. I'm not sure what the current legal stance on that is, but that's an argument that a layer would probably make.
I know that Sweden != US, but this is the crux of the TPB case. Even if this were the case, if all that they could prove was that you downloaded the .torrent, it would be Facebook that is in trouble.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Interesting)
Making Facebook a target of the RIAA may actually be a brilliant stroke for TPB, bringing to bear their extensive resources to the fight.
It is inevitable that the RIAA is going to bump heads with some huge corporations that won't push over as easily as the small-town senior citizens and college students that have been the RIAA's current targets. After all, one could say that AT&T and Verizon also "enable" people to download copyright-"protected" material. You could say that Cisco "enables" people to do the same. You could say that Microsoft and Apple are also culpable.
All this does is hasten the day when the RIAA is forced to realize they can't win.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Insightful)
"Enabling" downloading of copyright material is a highly dubious, very unclear "legal" standard. As such, it doesn't exist in the form that you think it does (or that the RIAA think it does) and it isn't present in a great many legal systems. You can see why - the person who supplies the computer keyboard/mouse is "enabling" the user to download a copyrighted work. So is the monitor manufacturer, and the ISP, and the electricity company.
Thus the legal standard that is required for proof of such actions needs to be substantially higher than "what the RIAA thinks is enabling". Additionally, jurisdictional boundaries greatly interfere here (the RIAA can be as interested in me as they like, but I don't live in America), as do other relevant laws (i.e. the "right" to free speech, fair use, etc.) and the requirement of hard evidence that not only do I have the copyright material in my possession without a licence grant, but also that my *intention* was to then breach copyright by distributing further etc.
Additionally, I have saved somewhere a news report from BBC News in which representatives of several major UK record companies state that they allow people to download/convert music they already own to use on their own devices, as many times as they like. This is quite damning and would protect certain usage of certain torrents, whether or not the official word on the copyright laws in my country say so.
Also, the legality or otherwise of a torrent file in even a single country has not been legally locked down (roll on April for PirateBay) and thus it's almost 100% certain that any court case would set a precedent in the particular country that hosts it. Until then, the whole thing is just a legal grey area and thus someone could easily do the above mentioned archiving, with a good technical knowledge and an intention of not breaching copyright, and not be breaking ANY existing laws at all, espeically if they can provide good reason (such as the whole "a torrent isn't its contents" argument which SHOULD damn well be correct).
Don't let every legal threat you ever hear form a legal fact in your mind. 99% of things never go to court and 50% of those that do fail miserably. Otherwise, bank charges in the UK would be in the order of £5, not £50, Linux would be cleared or convicted of breaching several hundred patents, Microsoft would be dead in the water and I'd be able to eat peanuts without having to read "May contain nuts".
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Interesting)
If I post a piece of paper on a telephone pole with the addresses of all banks in the city in which it is posted and someone uses that information to rob one of the banks on that list, am I guilty of 'facilitating' said robbery?
If I leave a stack of CDs in a box by the sidewalk in front of my house with a sign that says' "Take one, leave one."; does that make me guilty of copyright infringement?
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not theft, asshat - it's copyright infringement, and that's probably only true in your country, whose citizens seem to think that their rules apply to the whole world.
We're not criminals, neither, since there is no crime. Copyright infringement is a civil matter.
So, really, it's you fuckin' people who really continue to piss everyone else off, since you really are the ones who "don't get it."
You may continue to go fuck yourself, mister AC.
cheers,
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Informative)
Copyright infringement IS NOT a criminal offense. It is a civil infraction
in the US, that hasn't been true for over a decade and copyright infringement can be prosecuted on a Federal level [wikipedia.org].
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Insightful)
You can see why - the person who supplies the computer keyboard/mouse is "enabling" the user to download a copyrighted work. So is the monitor manufacturer, and the ISP, and the electricity company.
Not to mention the most supreme enabler of them all - the artist who created the original copyrighted works. If those works hadn't been created, nobody would download copyrighted material!
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't fuck around. Post that right now. I don't know what the laws are in the UK, but since that was a public announcement it could be very well seen as an interpretation of their very own legal contracts with customers. Everybody should have a copy of that to maintain that as a backup as it could be easily used against them in the future.
There is no other way to say it, that's wonderful :)
P.S - You just know those representatives got slapped later. You just know it.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Funny)
are you enabling someone to download or find pirated content?
Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it.
-- Linus Torvalds
I'm making an offsite backup. One such backup may not be available when I need it, so I better make many dozens.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Interesting)
If I downloaded every .torrent on TPB for archival purposes, I would be doing nothing wrong.
That doesn't mean that you wouldn't be doing something that the court feels is illegal.
We need to come to grips with the fact that our court system doesn't work based on facts, it works based on feelings.
Yes, but downloading a .torrent file, you haven't done anything to contribute to the piracy of any copyrighted materials.
But the courts feel like you did, so you can be convicted for it.
Its sad, and I think it speaks to the way that geek-minds work...we're analytical.
We look at a box and when somebody asks us to describe it, we say things like "It is royal-blue, it is 14cm tall and a perfect cube."
Sadly, the judges would respond by
"Well...I think the box is kindof squarish, it looks like it was probably used as a doorstop for a few years".
Facts vs. Feelings. This is the problem behind nearly every major legal battle that geeks are fighting. The facts support us, people's emotions do not.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Insightful)
The crux of the difference between geek-think and law-think here is that typically the legal issues turn not on the assets themselves, but on their provenance -- which is not an intrinsic property of the assets, but rather a sort of implicit metadata that requires extra bookkeeping to track reliably.
The legality of a song-file depends on how you got it, not the fact that it's a song by a major label artist. Downloaded from a properly licensed online store? No problem. The same exact sequence of bits, downloaded from someplace shady? Problem.
Similarly, the legality of a stack of $100 notes likewise depends on how you got it. If you got it by, say, making and selling custom cabinetry, you're probably fine, but if you got it by unauthorized sale of controlled substances, and the law catches on, you'll have problems.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, but you are wrong. Don't believe me, ask any lawyer.
Facts vs. Feelings. This is the problem behind nearly every major legal battle that geeks are fighting. The facts support us, people's emotions do not.
They are courts of Law where facts and feelings have very little to do with anything.
If you find yourself agreeing with the parent... (Score:5, Interesting)
FYI, if you find yourself agreeing with the parent post, you probably have not ever read a Supreme Court or Appeals Court opinion, or decent law review article.
There are of course a number of frankly idiotic opinions, but on the whole judges (or at least good judges, i.e., the ones whose opinions you read in classes) are a fairly analytical bunch. You kind of have to be.
The impression I get when I ponder the relationship between the judiciary and the legislative branches is that we have a lot of well-educated, well-spoken judges trying to make sense of laws that have been cobbled together by a bunch of monkeys flinging poo at one another. It's a little depressing.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:4, Insightful)
Regardless, making it public knowledge that you pirate/support piracy is probably a stupid idea if you ever plan on having a job.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:4, Informative)
I wouldnt quite agree, as the .torrent files are checksums derived from either DVDrips or screencaps, which are both derivative works.
Go read up on what lawyers talk about the The Colour of the Bits [sooke.bc.ca]. It's rather interesting, but also states indirectly that one cannot know this type of colour easily.
I wonder what NewYorkCoultryLawyer would say about this..
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Informative)
I wonder what NewYorkCountryLawyer would say about this..
NewYorkCountryLawyer? He ain't sayin' nuttin'.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Funny)
He ain't sayin' nuttin'.
So he is saying something?
No he ain't.
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Funny)
I could have sworn the parent's comment referred to the "NewYorkPoultryLawyer."
An understandable mistake, since my RIAA adversaries are chickens and turkeys, and their methods foul.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> These checksums serve only 1 purpose: and that is to properly put back together any number of files to their starting point.
> And if there wasnt the movie file, those checksums would mean diddly squat,
In other words, once you remove all the voodoo-to-the-average-joe mathspeak, its just a glorified URL link.
Linking has nothing to do with derivative works, no matter how much you dress it up in math or tech or business jargon.
But leaving that aside a moment, as far as "math transformed derivative work"
Re:Wrong Wrong Wrong (Score:5, Informative)
I know your just trolling, but...
Whenever you download a torrent, you must simultaneously upload it.
No, downloading Metallica_St_Anger.torrent is the same as downloading Ponies_n_kittens_playing.jpg from a website.
If you send the downloaded torrent file to a torrent application and allow it to connect and download files, then you are downloading the (possibly) illegal content, and usually, but not always, uploading the same content to someone else. There are quite a few torrents that I've downloaded where the Upload is 0kb.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
the (possibly) illegal content
I'm still having trouble with the idea that an arbitrary string of ones and zeroes could be "illegal".
If I generate a sequence of random numbers, write it to disk, and it happens to be, say, a copyrighted song when fed into an audio player, am I breaking the law? Who gets to determine if it's the same as the song?
Besides, any song can have an infinite number of representations. If I write an audio decoder that takes a Win32 dll and plays it as audio, am I breaking the law if one of the system files in my li
Re:Wrong Wrong Wrong (Score:4, Funny)
thanks in advance.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
http://yirmumah.com/webcomic/draw-anything-292.gif [yirmumah.com]
Maybe that will satisfy you... it's kinda close to what my mental image of it was...
Re:Not Really (Score:5, Interesting)
good work NYCL
Thanks, pha3r0. Now here's the question I'm kind of afraid to ask, for fear of being laughed out of the room:
Is it paranoid of me to wonder whether The Pirate Bay is actually an agent provocateur, working with, not against, the record companies?
Parent
Why is facebook allowing this? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not against pirating, just against the drama that goes with it. I really don't want the RIAA on my ass; I'm sure facebook doesn't either.
Re:Why is facebook allowing this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are there any laws that protect Facebook from illegal content that a user might post?
I don't think it's Facebook that would get sued. As a general rule the RIAA prefers to pick on the people who have no ability to fight back, which in this case would be the Facebook customers. Also Facebook would likely have a DMCA defense, which would not be available to the customers themselves.
Parent
Re:Why is facebook allowing this? (Score:5, Insightful)
I highly doubt that it is illegal to......
Famous last words.
Parent
Re:Why is facebook allowing this? (Score:5, Informative)
Just because the term 'has been, or still" is used to refer to what you linked to doesn't mean it is correct. "Automatic" is modified by "semi" for a reason.
It is correct. "Automatic", when applied to handguns, refers to the automatic nature of using some of the force of the firing explosion to drive the works of the gun. An automatic handgun harnesses that force to eject the spent casing, bring another into firing position, and sometimes cock the gun. Previously, as with a single or double-action revolver, the cylinder was moved by the cocking of the hammer or by pulling the trigger. That's the "automatic" part. It need not refer to the continuous firing mechanism of a fully-automatic weapon.
The full name of the M1911 handgun is Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911 [wikipedia.org]. Indeed, there are even automatic revolvers [wikipedia.org]. The use of the term "automatic" to refer to a semi-automatic handgun has existed for over 100 years, and continues to this day. Whenever someone says "automatic", and it is not followed by "rifle" or preceded by "fully", they almost always are speaking of a semi-automatic handgun. I have never heard it used otherwise. If someone says, "I shot off a few rounds with my automatic", or "I took my automatic to the range", it is safe to assume they are referring to a semi-automatic handgun.
I consider the blurring of automatic and semi-automatic small arms to be an Overton window thing, done on purpose, by people with an agenda.
No. The term "semi-automatic" is a neologism just like "wooden baseball bat". It did not need qualification until a newer technology became widespread. I have never sensed an ulterior motive from people using the term "automatic". It's simply a descriptive name, which has been used for 100 years.
Parent
Incoming! (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably no risk (Score:5, Funny)
I just hope people do not use this feature to download copyrighted materials which are not authorized to be downloaded, or at least not materials copyrighted to litigation-happy RIAA Big 4 record labels.
Knowing the Internet community at large, I think there is probably no risk of this happening. :p
Look for a swift response. (Score:4, Interesting)
What the *AAs are losing through piracy, more than sales and such, is control. The buzz "center" is moving from the old media into the piratebay's top100. Essentially. Such a development will eventually kill off the content-for-money industry (though a content-with-sponsoring may rise to take it's place, you'll notice that the TV industry is much more laid back).
This is a step in that direction, so look for a quick and angry reprisal, legally warranted or not.
Facebook funnies thread (Score:5, Funny)
Fred has sent you a torrent. Download?
Send 20 more torrents to get a "FUCK THE RIAA" gift!
C'mon, gimme your best shot.
What gives? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't get it. The Pirate Bay launches a cheap, unlogged VPN in order to provide a more private service, but now they're encouraging sharing via Facebook?
You'd think that Facebook is the last place they'd want to be, since it just seems to be the complete antithesis of what I understood the Pirate Bay to be about.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, I think they're worried about the court case.
Even if they win, the risk of law changes is pretty big. So I think they are going whole-hog while they can. The VPN? nice side business, and may allow them to keep going with their ideals. The Facebook thing? Spread the joy, make it easier for everyone to pillage while they can. Possibly even get the benefit of mixing Facebook (now a tracker) into the mess.
I hope the guys at PB win this one (and the next as well), because they are the boys on the
I love it... (Score:4, Insightful)
So many here are arguing legality, right, wrong, weather or not it'll fly in court...
It. Doesn't. MATTER.
The **AA can serve me with a lawsuit for raping the corpse of Pope John Paul II while wearing nothing but a purple party hat and pink woad.
It'd make a judge pop a vein from laughing so hard, but if I don't have a lawyer or can't afford one...
Then I'm shit outta luck and lose the lawsuit.
Remember, it's not how much justice you can get, it's how much justice you can afford. Or in the case of the **AA, it's how long you can hold out under sustained bombardment.
Re:Idiot? (Score:5, Insightful)
> ripping off artists so that leeches don't have to pay for their work.
Dude. Come. Fucking. On. We have 2009. Everybody and their dog has a computer, which is designed to copy stuff. Also we have broadband which is, again, designed to... move stuff around the world. So is what youre actually pointlessly advocating is that we collectively should... actually what? Abstain from using a common technology in order to make absurdly archaic 50's business models of "manufacturing and selling single copies" viable in day and age when everybody _can_ manufacture and distribute those copies themselves? Yawn.
If you and your fellow artists cannot bear the thought of your works becomming part of our culture and shared with other people, then stop producing and publishing them. If you cant manage to make money from the fact that people actually like your works and actively share them with their friends, go flip burgers, maybe thats where your real talent lies. However, wide-scale censorship, which is what you and your likes are proposing all the fucking time, wont work, so forget that idea really fast.
Parent
Re:Idiot? (Score:5, Insightful)
> artists still have to make a living to continue to make art.
And its still their job to find out how to do that. Back in the 50s, they were able to sell copies of stuff, since copying was hard. In 2009, neither copying nor distribution is hard any more, so people make their copies themselves and distribute them. If the artist completely used to rely on selling copies to make a living, he now has to adapt. IF he refuses to, he'll have to go flip burgers.
> You seem to think all the people out there illegally copying files are somehow noble
Nope, never implied that.
> and if they liked it, pay the perform(s)
> or if they didn't like it, delete it never view it again.
Also never said that.
> 1) don't have permission to copy
We dont have to ask for a permission to exchange informaiton and share stuff. Everybody who thinks that, like you seem to, is mistaken.
> 2) have not paid
Since i do the copying and the distribution myself, i dont have to pay.
> 3) and are NOT exercising Fair Use
I am excercising Fair Use which _I_ defined.
> Committing a crime
I dont consider it to be a crime.
> Stealing from the artist and those who have invested money in producing/distributing
> the thing you want to copy
Copying stuff and sharing information with other people is not stealing, no matter how much youd like it to be.
> Removing incentive for the producers to renew the artist due to reduced sales
Their problem. (You know, you and they can still go flip burgers if you cant cope with the fact that we have 2009 and practically everybody learned how to use a networked computer.)
> If you think differently,
Which I do
> then you have the ethics of a common thief
But I have the luck that its not you laying out our ethics code.
> and I'd love to see you in jail wedded to Bubba the ass fucker.
Since you have to call for physical violence and violent anal rape of anybody who doesnt agree to your ageing ideology, you lose.
Parent
Re:Idiot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you an idiot? Of course this is what it will be used for. It's the primary reason Public Libraries exists, ripping off artists so that leeches don't have to pay for their work.
I'm so tired of the naive facade people put on when talking about Public Libraries. We all know exactly what it's used for. Stop pretending you don't know.
Parent
Re:Idiot? (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The **AA will wait for facebook to generate that ever elusive revenue before it tries to sue them...
That would be their style. Set the trap. Sit back. Wait a bit. Smile. Let the promotional value run its course. Then spring it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you're going to encourage people to screw someone over, screw over someone who can't defend themselves!
Precisely. That is the core belief of the RIAA's clone army.
Re:the **AA is still arround? (Score:5, Funny)
they have been losing money from their lawsuits last time i checked
Yes but is it possible you are giving them credit for something they do not actually possess? The ability to learn.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For as awesome as NewYorkCountryLawyer is with technical/legal issues, I think he didn't do precisely what you did yourself. Its the same for me, it takes me to the torrent page instead of the .torrent download. All it is is a specially crafted URL that instructs facebook to ask for your login, (or sample your cookies/authenticated sessions) and post the link to your profile. Nothing more.
Thank you very much. Now we have a record of your visit. Now we can later claim that you are a copyright infringer, even though we have no evidence of your actually having infringed any copyrights, just as we did in our p2p file sharing cases.
Your cooperation is indeed appreciated.
Sincerely yours,
-Your grateful RIAA Overlords
Re:Has anyone tried this? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd love to see that argument show up in court.
I'll bet you wouldn't. Not if you were the defendant and had to spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars to show the Judge how frivolous it is. Do you know how many completely frivolous and nonsensical things the RIAA lawyers say every day in court, and get away with?
Parent
Re:Has anyone tried this? (Score:4, Funny)
That kind of argument would get thrown out of court, and if that was the basis of their case, they'd likely be on the hook for a juicy counter suit.
You must be new here.
Parent