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Microsoft Suffers Leaks, Lagging Sales Numbers As They Look Forward To Windows 8
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Fri Apr 24, 2009 04:52 PM
from the expect-it-to-get-much-worse dept.
from the expect-it-to-get-much-worse dept.
nandemoari writes "With only a few weeks until Microsoft's Windows 7 Release Candidate 1 (RC1) is released, Microsoft is already looking for people to help with Windows 8. An April 14th job ad posted by Microsoft says the upcoming version of Windows will have new features like cluster support and support for one way replication. Apparently the Windows 8 kernel is being reworked to provide dramatic performance improvements. Windows 8 will also include innovative features that, according to Microsoft, will revolutionize file access in branch offices." Relatedly, several users tell us that both 32 and 64-bit versions of the Windows 7 release candidate have been leaked into the wild via p2p networks. The current leaked version shows little change beyond bug fixes, so it would seem what you see is what you get. This all comes as Microsoft posts quarterly sales that have fallen for the first time in the company's 23-year history. Seeing a 6% drop in revenue and a 32% drop in earnings, some within the Redmond giant expect the downward trend to continue.
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Buh? (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this a leak? Or news?
Re:Buh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Neither. It has been posted prior to every previous OS release by Microsoft, replacing only the current and next OS names.
In particular, they include this statement every time: "provide dramatic performance improvements"
And is "revolutionize file access in branch offices" the filesystem MS promised for Vista, or is that still DOA?
Parent
Re:Buh? (Score:5, Informative)
And is "revolutionize file access in branch offices" the filesystem MS promised for Vista
Microsoft never promised a new filesystem. WinFS was an abstraction layer running atop NTFS.
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Re:Buh? (Score:5, Informative)
Mod Parent Up.
This lovely little tidbit of information is completely correct and it always gets iterated every single time someone bashes Microsoft over WinFS. It's not a file system. It never was. And it's not dead, it's now part of SQL server under a different name.
But somehow, people don't get this. It's been years since it's been "dropped" from Vista (presumably because it's not actually all that useful after all) yet people still harp on about it.
I don't know why the message isn't getting through: It's not a file system. It's not abandoned. It's not a big deal.
Until it gets through, all we can really do is mod up the people that constantly point this out =\
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Re:Buh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, those retards thinking WinFS nee Relational File System nee Object File System was supposed to be a file system! Rubes!
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Re:Buh? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know what it is, but I'm really angry that Microsoft isn't making me use it!
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Re:Buh? (Score:5, Informative)
Well that depends on how long you have been listening to msft hype. A database file system has been promised from msft sine roughly 1994. Back then it was a full FS. The latest version is a database layer on top of NTFS. Something they have been promising since 2002. They still can't get it to work. It has led to improvements in windows. However apple and gnome had those features without false promises of winFS.
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Re:Buh? (Score:4, Funny)
WinFS: neither file system nor win.
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Re:Buh? (Score:4, Insightful)
And is "revolutionize file access in branch offices" the filesystem MS promised for Vista, or is that still DOA?
I would hope by now that people are able to see through this as yet another defense against encroaching Free and Open Source solutions. If this "feature" is actually delivered, any bets that it will not play well with Samba? Given Microsoft's history, there is every reason to suspect poison in every Microsoft offering.
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Re:Buh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Every press story about Windows since 1994 [today.com] reads:
I am so excited about $NEXT_VERSION of Windows. It will go beyond just solving all of the problems with $CURRENT_VERSION, it will be an entirely new paradigm. Forget about security problems, those are all fixed in $NEXT_VERSION. And they're finally ridding themselves of $ANCIENT_LEGACY_STUFF.
Also, there'll be $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM. It'll be awesome!
I wonder how $NEXT_VERSION will compare to $NEXT_NEXT_VERSION.
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Yet another new version (Score:3, Insightful)
So thats saying that what isn't out yet is already being replaced, so why should i upgrade.
How about just make something that works?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because they'd rather spend tons on R&D, marketing, support, etc. for something people don't want to buy (Vista, Windows 7) than to continue to press discs for something people do want to buy (XP).
Re:Yet another new version (Score:5, Insightful)
I want Windows 7... kernel... I don't want its shell (explorer et al) though. The idea of moving to an interface that does things differently, I don't have a huge aversion to. The idea of moving to an interface that can't do the things I can do now in Win2003... well that's just plain silly.
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Re:Yet another new version (Score:5, Insightful)
Why don't they just sell service packs? As in you get upgrades with X features like Aero Glass, a new explorer, etc. but keep all your settings and applications. Like Apple does. Or some Linux distros except obviously it's free.
In marketing though I wouldn't call it a service pack. But you get the idea.
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Re:Yet another new version (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure there's a single industry in which the average business puts out a product without at least starting to plan the next one.
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Re:Yet another new version (Score:5, Insightful)
> I'm not sure there's a single industry in which the average business
> puts out a product without at least starting to plan the next one.
I'm sure you are correct. However I'm pretty sure this is the first time Microsoft has hinted about V+2 before V+1 shipped. Up to now the cycle has been:
1. Release. This is THE product you must have. It fixed everything you hated about V-1 and is just packed full of awesome.
2. As customers actually buy V and find it creates as many problems as it fixed, even after the first service release announce the upcoming V+1 in development. Release some internal builds and screenshots to the tame tech media to begin working the hype up. Yup, V+1 is going to be the bomb, every feature you could possibly want is going to be in this puppy, it will finally be secure and you will even have whiter teeth!
3. As release date passes without a release start removing features. Make sure all the pirates and tech media have a recent build. Ensure all reviews are between the upcoming release and competing shipping products to suck out their oxygen. Nah, who needs NDS when Active directory is coming any day now and will rule!
4. PROFIT! ; Goto 1
This time Windows 7 isn't even being hyped as more than a corrective for the stuff people hated in Vista, no real new features. The new features are now being hyped for V+2. Which is only more evidence that 7 is just Mojave/Vista SE.
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Re:Yet another new version (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Yet another new version (Score:5, Funny)
No, he's serious I saw it too!
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Trash talk (Score:5, Insightful)
It's just a floater (Score:4, Interesting)
Almost, but not quite. Microsoft just ran clustering up the flagpole to see who would get excited.
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Fuck yeah. (Score:5, Insightful)
This all comes as Microsoft posts quarterly sales that have fallen for the first time in the company's 23-year history.
This is a perfect opportunity for trash talk! Suck on failure, Microsoft! Sales looking a little limp this quarter? I guess that's why they call it both micro and soft!
Heh. More seriously, as Joel points out [joelonsoftware.com]:
Microsoft has an incredible amount of cash money in the bank and is still incredibly profitable. It has a long way to fall. It could do everything wrong for a decade before it started to be in remote danger, and you never know... they could reinvent themselves as a shaved-ice company at the last minute.
It's good to see a hint that this fall might finally be starting, but even in this economy, it will be a long time before Microsoft dies.
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Re:Fuck yeah. (Score:5, Interesting)
> More seriously, as Joel points out:
Joel is wrong. A few years ago he was right but he obviously hasn't looked at Microsoft's latest balance sheet. They blew through the cash horde paying us stockholders dividends to keep us from going after em with pitchforks. Used to be they carried zero debt on their books, not anymore.
Go look it up, it is shocking how fast they went from more money than the Pope in Rome to a normal profitable company. And now the recession is upon them, netbooks are encroaching on their fat margins and there isn't much excitement in corporate America to engage in a mass hardware refresh to get Windows 7.
The computing landscape is about to change, the old guard who built the industry is retiring/dying off and things are about to make the shift from high flying growth to stable basic industry.
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a dead Microsoft? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's good to see a hint that this fall might finally be starting, but even in this economy, it will be a long time before Microsoft dies.
I'll be at the start of any "I hate Microsoft, they're evil!" line, but I DO NOT want to see MS die. We need more competition not less.
Falcon
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Re:a dead Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I'd say that Microsoft dying would be a *huge* step towards more competition...
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Re:a dead Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
We need more competition not less.
If you assume Apple would fill that void, I wholeheartedly agree. In their own way, they are worse than Microsoft.
However, if Linux filled that void, that is actually much better. Have you not noticed?
There is competition on every level on Linux, from the kernel down.
On the kernel level, you can have Linux, Solaris, BSD, Darwin, even HURD.
If you choose Linux, you can use ext3, xfs, jfs, or reiserfs -- and those are just the ones off the top of my head that are reasonably stable and fit for desktop use.
There are alternate init systems -- everything from old-school sysvinit to Apple's launchd to Gentoo's weird dependency system to Ubuntu's upstart.
There are alternate shells -- bash, dash, csh, ksh, rush, emacs...
There have even been a few attempts at alternate X servers, though X.org remains pretty key for now.
There are alternate desktop environments -- GNOME, KDE, XFCE, etc -- and alternate window managers which can be used within those, or by themselves -- metacity, compiz, kwin, fluxbox, ratpoison, windowmaker, fvwm, twm... Or none at all.
There are alternate file browsers -- Gentoo, Nautilus, Konqueror, Dolphin, Midnight Commander, bash...
There are alternate web browsers -- Firefox, Konqueror, Epiphany, Galeon, Opera...
There are alternate package managers -- apt, rpm, portage, ports...
And there are alternate distros to wrap it all up.
Trust me, if Ubuntu ever gains a dominant position, that would be more consumer choice, and more competition, not less. The most obvious reason? I'd probably be using Kubuntu.
And that's ignoring the reasons competition doesn't matter as much, for open source things...
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Re:Fuck yeah. (Score:5, Informative)
They don't have large actual cash reserves. That is just slang for liquid accounts. They have a whole team of people who sit around forecast the exact amount of cash necessary to do things like make payroll and A/P at certain times. Then, they manage a whole slew of really low risk investments that come due around the time they need the cash. The rate on really low risk investments investments is by defintion the expected rate of inflation for that period + the time value of money. It's not hard to find investments like TIPS (Treasury Inflation protected securities) that guarantee the proper rate of return.
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point of reference (Score:5, Informative)
Re:point of reference (Score:4, Insightful)
Or Linux will be ready for the desktop
* I troll, I troll, I'm typing this on my Centos machine
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Re:point of reference (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:point of reference (Score:5, Informative)
Despite MS sales dropping 6% and profits dropping ~30%, they're still somehow the 3rd most profitable company in the world according to Fortune. They're ahead of even GE! So who's ahead of them? Exxon and Chevron.
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Re:point of reference (Score:5, Interesting)
Why do we need a new "dominant" player? Why can't we just have a plethora of OSs that inter-operate at a basic level and let users and companies cater to one or all of the preferred OSs?
The best thing in the world of software will happen when no one company has a stranglehold on innovation... take a look at the web for example... lots of innovation until IE dominated, then Firefox broke the domination and now you have IE, FF, Chrome, Safari, Opera and a whole host of other browsers that adhere standards (for the most part) and web developers write to those standards (and tweak for specific browsers)... innovation is picking up pace again.
To come back to your point, yes Apple would make as evil a monopolist as Microsoft, but I'd prefer if they all had to compete for my $$.
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Feature freeze? (Score:5, Interesting)
Isn't it a good thing that they are concentrating on the bugs from the betas, instead of adding features? Perhaps users of the final release wont feel like beta testers this time?
I'm no ms fan but they seam to be doing it right this time, move feature work and innovation to windows 8, while a 'stable' branch of the code is finalized for release.
Windows 2000 (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows 2000--still the best version they ever made. Simple, clean, and snappy. Try it on a modern PC. It's so wonderfully fast with an interface that stays out of the way. If Windows 2000 had supported my laptop in 2002, I wouldn't have made the jump to XP. I would have used Windows 2000 for many years.
Windows 7 looks like Vista with an OS X Dock. I can't stand Aero, and there doesn't appear to be any refinements to it, so that's disappointing. The cloning of OS X's Dock and window management behavior is another amusingly obvious ripoff that Microsoft and its supporters will deny (the common talking point appears to be that the inspiration was Windows 1.0, not OS X). The option for the classic Start menu has been removed. I really dislike Vista's Start menu and how you scroll inside it to get to things. Thankfully, the search field is a faster, better launcher.
Snow Leopard will be fun to compare to Windows 7. While Microsoft has been moving in a direction of adding more visual flair with each release, Apple has been removing flair from OS X. Right now, it almost resembles NexTStep's dark gray. Once they replace the harsh, blue gel scrollbars with iTunes' clean ones, I'll be really happy staring at my screen all day.
Re:Windows 2000 (Score:5, Informative)
2003 dude, all the way. Switch to windows classic (start menu, taskbar, window decoration, folder views) and disable the 'themes' service which seems to intercept graphics calls and the result is snappier than 2000, esp with boot/shutdown times taken into consideration (with concurrent service start/stopping that came in 2001's XP).
Throw a couple of UI enhancements on (launchy [sourceforge.net], freelaunchbar [freelaunchbar.com]) and you're away. Nothin beats it. One of my problems with 7ista is that you can't create a second bar on the screen (eg, add quicklaunch toolbar, and try drag it to the top or side of the screen. You now have a new bar, great for adding an address toolbar, a freelaunchbar, website bookmarks etc). I don't understand the mentality behind removing functionality.
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Windows XP Mode (Score:5, Informative)
basically Virtual PC running Windows XP client seamlessly on the desktop. Most
likely it will gain interest in enterprises planning to upgrade XP installations.
http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2009/04/24/secret-no-more-revealing-virtual-windows-xp-for-windows-7.aspx [winsupersite.com]
Re:Windows XP Mode (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Windows XP Mode (Score:4, Insightful)
I suppose it's easy to interpret "it was a kick-butt achievement" to mean that I liked Classic, so let me just elucidate; when I say it was a "kick-butt achievement" I'm saying that it bridged the gap between two extremely different systems. It allowed Apple to leave behind the spaghettifest that was OS 9 while keeping the customers that they had.
I'm talking about the end-goal as a business to retain customers that you already have while essentially uprooting the entire customer base and moving on to something better.
I'm sure your personal experiences with Classic aren't unique, but that doesn't change the fact that it achieved its goal: it allowed most applications to run (I'll counter with my own pull-out-of-butt metric for how many apps ran under Classic), thereby allowing Apple's loyal customer base to have an upgrade path while retaining the ability to use their already allocated software investments.
And it did it all while running a flakey OS on low-powered hardware.
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Re: Window 8 (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft snatches publicity crown from Ubuntu (Score:5, Funny)
In a stunning public relations coup, Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ: MNPLY) has successfully overshadowed today's release of Ubuntu Linux 9.04 "Juicy Jubblies" [today.com] by announcing its failed financials for a fourth quarter in a row and laying even more people off.
Microsoft announced new and expanded roles for remaining key executives as another several lesser, losing quitters deserted upper management. "It shows the fantastic opportunity available to everyone at Microsoft to climb seven or eight reporting levels up the org chart," said marketing marketer Steve Ballmer to pitchfork-wielding Wall Street analysts today. "If we haven't laid them off for making too much money or not kissing enough ass."
The Yahoo! deal is expected to go ahead. "We figure they'll go broke before we do. Probably." Mr Ballmer also plans to run the Yahoo! servers on Windows NT rather than FreeBSD after a similar change worked so well at Hotmail. "Some say synergy's another word for two plus two equals one, but you just have to make the value of one work for you."
Windows 7 betas have been greeted with remarkable positive press. "Of course, the betas preview the 'champagne and hookers' edition, which would be way too much for netbooks and explode users' brains. Imagine thinking those little things are computers! So we're releasing what we call Windows 7 Dumbass Edition. It lets you log in and look at the shiny. Even Spider Solitaire has the ribbon toolbar! And you can buy an upgrade to the version that runs programs! It lets you do that!" Dumbass Edition comes with pre-installed viruses to make the computer part of the Storm, Conficker and FBI botnets. "If you can't beat ’em, join ’em."
However, Microsoft has indicated to its press corps, Microsoft Completely Enderlependent Analysts, to ixnay on the evensay and highlight the job openings for work on Windows 8, firmly penciled in for a 2012 release. Windows 8 will be optimised for low-end 32-core systems with a mere 16 gigabytes of memory — 28 cores for the interface, 3 cores for the DRM and one core for everything else. "Seven is just so this year. I hear they'll get $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM done next release for sure!" said ZDNet marketing marketer Mary-Jo Enderle. "It'll be awesome!"
"I'm sure it'll be fine, fine," said Bill Gates, upping his hours at his charitable foundation and scheduling the sale of several more packages of Microsoft stock.
Larry Ellison of Oracle, who recently purchased Sun Microsystems, merely snickered, muttered "Java. OpenOffice." and let out a long and resounding laugh.
Mark Shuttleworth of Canonical, speaking from his castle on a crag high on a mountaintop in west London, was sanguine at Ubuntu's news being overshadowed. "I lost ten million dollars on Ubuntu last year. I'm losing ten million dollars on Ubuntu this year. I expect to lose ten million dollars on Ubuntu next year. At this rate, I'll be broke in ... sixty years."
Well, here's a big issue: (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows 7 isn't even out yet and already there's talk of the next product coming around the corner. I think this is part of the problem Microsoft is having with Vista: Nobody wants to invest in the considerable outlay in "upgrading" to the latest version of Windows when they already know their investment is going to be irrelevant in a year or two when something newer (read "better" in the eyes of Joe Sixpack) hits the shelves.
"I'll hold off," say millions of cash-strapped computer users.
And thus, the cycle repeats.
Re:New OS naming trend? (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft realized after Apple's OSX that their current naming scheme robbed them of the ability to release Windows X, which would be similar to Windows, but more streamlined, and with flames painted on the sides. They went back to the standard sequential number scheme so they could legitimately call a release "Windows X" without looking like poseurs.
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Re:New OS naming trend? (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft will adopt the a scheme of releasing incremental versions once a year like clockwork, starting with Windows 7 in 2009, Windows 8 in 2010, as so on.
Finally, in 2097, Microsoft will re-release vintage Windows 95 as the OS of choice for ancient computers dug from the rubble of the post-apocalyptic nightmare world.
Never let it be said that Microsoft doesn't have its corporate eye on the future.
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Re:New OS naming trend? (Score:5, Funny)
* Windows 9 (maybe?)
Close. By that time Linux will have gained enough steam with things like Suse 13 and Mighty Mandrake that they'll change the name to make sure they don't look inferior. It'll be called Windows 9000: Accounting Alan.
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Re:New OS naming trend? (Score:5, Funny)
What about Windows 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 and 3.11?
You have to remember, that for a majority of /. these days, there weren't any OSes before Windows 95 because everyone was too busy fighting dinosaurs.
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Re:leaks (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:leaks (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:leaks (Score:5, Funny)
But from what end? :P
Let's just say, it sent a chair flying...
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Re:Dear Microsoft.. please listen to your users (Score:4, Informative)
Send me message if you want me to continue my licensing rant in detail.
Ok... I'll bite...what did they say?
Next rant: Windows Vista.. Stop telling me it is better than Windows XP.
But it is.
Next rant: Why are you forcing Vista on everyone that buys a computer in the store?!
Because Vista is the current version. And people who buy computers in a store should get the current version.
XP is essentially discontinued except for businesses that REALLY need it, and netbooks. Personally I can't wait for it to be all dead.
Next rant: DRM. Fucking stop it. Start enabling people - not disabling them. Stop listening to media companies that are trying to force you to handicap your operating system. People pay for stuff that's convenient. Make it convenient as possible. Stop installing WGA spyware on everyones' computers.
DRM is virtually a non-issue in Vista. Go ahead, install some non-MPAA signed video drivers. The worst that will happen is your bluray player won't work. It sucks that its there, but Microsoft is actually doing a pretty good job of balancing things.
Next rant: Stop changing interfaces for the hell of changing interfaces. Give me a 'compatibility mode' interface.... I want my fucking classic startmenu.
1995 was not the pinacle of GUI design. Just because you are used to it doesn't mean it was ever good. Suck it up and roll with progress. Sometimes it takes a step backwards, but its mostly forwards.
Next rant: Stop adding more steps in the process to get anything done!!! In Windows 95, Startmenu > Programs displayed everything..
Yep, and having more start menu items than fit on the screen sucks. Even after the panel expands itself horizontally.
Then.. Windows 98/ME/XP started scrolling and hiding shit by default.. How the fuck is that more convenient?
Yes it was annoying, but it solved the problem of so much stuff installed that never gets used preventing you from conveniently accessing what you do use. It wasn't the best solution, but it was a start. Vista's and OSx's solution -- using search is far better. Try it. I never look at the all programs list anymore... i just type the first few letters of the name of the program... and the really common stuff I pinned.
How about changing an IP address? It is easier and quicker in XP than Vista.. How about changing resolution? so much easier in XP than Vista.. or Windows 7..
Are these things really you do all that often that its worth a rant? And XP's UI for setting up multiple monitors wasn't great. (better than linux tho.)
Next rant: Stop choosing the dumbass options for everyone by default.. give a 'poweruser' setting during setup so Windows explorer doesn't try to hide exensions, hide details, hide operating system files..
If you are such a power user build a short .reg file stick it on a usb key for storage and double click it after you install to apply all these settings. I'm not happy with a lot of the defaults of my Linux and OSX installs either.
Next rant: No puppy dogs.
Really? You liked that little brown search dog? I never did; little bugger never seemed to find anything.
Next rant: Build disk-imaging into the OS. Let me install a drive, go to disk manager, and copy my old drive.. It's easy as hell to program.. And it's easy as hell to do in linux.. make it easy to do in Windows.
But... but... Norton will sue them for cutting them out of that market...kidding... that would be a nice feature.
Next rant: Stop wasting GUI space.. How is a thicker window border any more convenient?
Oh come now, its not like you're running 800x600 anymore... are you? are you? I pity you. Me, I don't really relish trying to pick at 2pixel wide widgets on a 24" screen. That said, your comments about scalable windows is the direction I'd like to see things go too.
[...]
Most of those I cut I agreed with.
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Re:Microsoft Suffers Leaks, Lagging Sales Numbers (Score:5, Informative)
The joint technology optimisation is targeted for the ARMv6 and ARMv7architectures used in the ARM11â family and the Cortexâ-A series of processors and is expected to be available in the second half of 2009. announcement here [adobe.com]
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Re:"Window 8?" (Score:5, Funny)
MS has a new strategy for performance and stability - they're only going to allow you to open 8 Windows and the new name reflects that.
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