Ross Ulbricht was sentenced to life in prison, and ...
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Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
Who ?
Re: (Score:2)
That was my question. But a quick google says he's the Silk Road guy.
So now for me the missing option is "Meh"
Re:Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
Not so sure I'd just say "meh" - dude got life minus parole for running a website that sold illegal stuff. If he raped children, killed scores of people, etc, okay, but life in prison for selling drugs on a website? Something's not right there.
(Note that the whole hit-man thing was never on the list of charges IIRC).
If anything, that's an awfully bad precedent... literal baby-killers get lesser sentences (and often get paroled far sooner than a decade later).
Re:Missing option (Score:4, Interesting)
Giving him a particularly tough sentence for something he was not even charged with should be enough to get the judge disbarred and the verdict automatically overturned. Won't happen though.
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Giving him a particularly tough sentence for something he was not even charged with should be enough to get the judge disbarred and the verdict automatically overturned. Won't happen though.
Won't happen because you are clueless. After a criminal is found guilty, the judge can use his character, his overall behaviour, regret, remorse or lack thereof, whether the person is likely to reoffend and so on to adjust the sentence. The sentence can and often is increased for things that are no crimes. For example if you kill a person, then telling the mother that you really enjoyed every second of it will get your sentence increased.
Re:Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
If what you're saying is true, that's a truely bad system.
IF he was not accused in trial of the 'murder-for-hire" situation, then that has not been legally proven to have happened. Think about it. Suppose you end up in court for something minor and when it comes to sentencing, the judge suddenly sentences you to the maximum allowable sentence because he heard you tried to hire a hitman. Well, I hear you say that you didn't hire a hitman? That's my point! You have not been on trial for that, you have not been able to disprove that accusation.
That's what a legal system is about. When proven beyond reasonable doubt, after hearing both sides, THEN people can be convicted and senteced to prison.
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Thereby leaving future courts of appeal room to decide that the original judge threw a tantrum and oversentenced.
Re:Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but have you not been paying attention to US drug laws?
With three strikes laws and mandatory sentencing, isn't it possible to be sentenced to life in prison for possessing a joint?
Sorry, but when your drug laws are so horribly broken, founded in ideology and not actual medical fact (eg the definition of "narcotic") ... what the hell do you expect?
You can commit a whole slew of crimes for which the penalty is much less than marijuana "crimes" will get you.
Because apparently throwing people in jail for life for smoking weed sells well with someone's political base, even if it's based on nothing but irrational hysteria, lies, and ideology.
Dude, it's not even a precedent. Between laws which make "with a computer" full blown felonies and the state of the US drug laws ... this is just the combination of the two latest bogeymen.
Yes, sure, other drugs were also sold.
But I'm pretty sure you could get life in prison for selling pot on Facebook, because you'd be teh unimaginable ebil.
This is decades in the making.
Re:Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you? Because he wasn't convicted of that, and the charges were dropped.
Are you suggesting you should sentence people based on the things you didn't charge them with and didn't prove?
Because you're an idiot if you are.
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The charges weren't all dropped. He still faces trial in Maryland for one count of murder for hire, and additional drug distribution charges. You can argue that he wasn't convicted, but that's not a condition for consideration in sentencing.
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Shouldn't it be, though?
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Do you? Because he wasn't convicted of that, and the charges were dropped.
They were? They wen't included in this case, nothing more, nothing less. But the prosecution was allowed to show that not only was the mastermind of silkroad trying to get people killed, it was shown that money under the control of the mastermind was transferred in the amounts and at the times consistent with that plan.
The evidence that that mastermind was Ross Ulbricht is overwhelming, FFS he left a log mixing private and silkroad events in such a way no one other than him could have produced it! This log
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Re:Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no idea if it happened or not ... I'm saying you can't sentence someone based on things you allege they did but never charged or proved.
Otherwise prosecutors could make any old shit up, not prove it, and sentence people based on unproven innuendo.
And if that's the case, then America really needs to stop thinking of itself as a free society with a legal system which isn't about political persecution instead of actual facts.
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America really needs to stop thinking of itself as a free society with a legal system which isn't about political persecution instead of actual facts.
Well yes, yes it does. That's the only way people will get mad enough to demand change... so we can "have nice things". Like a functioning justice system. Or at least, functioning in a way that benefits the citizenry.
Re:Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
He didn't sell any actual drugs, he just ran the site for people who did. It's like locking up Craig for somebody else selling drugs on Craigslist. I agree he bears some responsibility, but life without parole seems excessive.
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He doesn't bear any responsibility for things other people did.
probably a fair sentence (Score:5, Insightful)
IANAL, but that sounds like racketeering to me. If he was tried in the 1970s, I bet the feds would have slapped him with racketeering charges which were designed to allow them to bust mob bosses, who 'just gave orders' to others to commit crimes. Just because you aren't handling physical contraband, doesn't mean that you are innocent. He was conspiring to allow others to break laws en mass. He knew what he was doing from the start, this isn't an innocent mistake.
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OK, let's go with an extreme version of this in a thought experiment.
Say I buy a bunch of stuff from eBay which the seller and I wink at one another and say "why no, this isn't stolen" ... is eBay guilt of racketeering?
Americans like to talk about the free market, so does providing a marketplace for people to exchange goods automatically provide culpability for crimes?
What about Craigslis
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The law isn't so black and white. The government (and a judge, and a jury) would weigh the illegal uses of the service with the legal ones. They would also look to see how the service handled obvious and reported illegal uses. If, for example, eBay only sold stolen goods, and it was obvious (as in spelled out in the product descriptions) that they were stolen, and they did nothing when users reported the listings of stolen goods, then yeah, they would be breaking the law.
On the other hand, Craigslist has
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The various federal agencies that are engaging in parallel construction are conspiring to break the law, so yes, they are probably guilty. I wish you the best of luck in getting them arrested and trie
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One of the charges was reported as the "kingpin" charge. Maybe that was racketeering?
Re: (Score:2)
Pablo Escobar probably never sold any drugs either, he just put the network in place for other people to sell them and took a percent of the profits.
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Helping a lot of people to sell drugs.. actually, that sounds quite a bit worse than selling drugs to me. --Well, taking the assumption that selling drugs is bad.
Re:Missing option (Score:4, Funny)
If he raped children, killed scores of people, etc, okay, but life in prison for selling drugs on a website?
I heard on the radio several years ago of some got who more prison time for raping a dog than molesting and/or killing a child. Since was talk radio with people calling in, animal right activists screaming that the guy should have gotten more prison time and concerned parents screamed that the guy should have gotten less prison time. Talk about screwing the pooch.
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Yeah but all that money that didn't got to the big companies was the missing revenue to make our society better hence reducing rape and murder...
Oh right! They hire tax evasion experts to avoid paying taxes so that money didn't make it back to society. My Bad!!!!
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Re:Missing option (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree. I think he received life in prison though for the soliciting murder for hire episodes. To me that is worth 20 years. Life should only be used as an alternative to the death penalty, not a as 'really stiff sentence'.
He didn't. He got a life sentence for his website. Which didn't just sell drugs and other illegal stuff, but an absolute shitload of it. Nine dollar digits.
After found guilty, the judge had to set the sentence, and by law it had to be "at least 20 years", but with lots of leeway upwards. The soliciting for murder showed his bad character and convinced the judge to go to the upper limit, but he wasn't punished for it per se.
Re:Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
It's odd how jurors are specifically reminded to ignore things that aren't actually involved in the case (sometimes going as far as sequestration to prevent their opinions from being clouded by the media)
Yet judges can mete out a sentence based on what amounts to hearsay? If he wasn't formally charged with murder for hire, the judge letting those allegations influence the sentence is complete bullshit.
"you sir are guilty of jaywalking, but because the arresting office has alluded to the fact that you might be a pedophile, I'm going to give you 15 years".. right.
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"you sir are guilty of jaywalking, but because the arresting office has alluded to the fact that you might be a pedophile, I'm going to give you 15 years".. right.
Well, 15 years isn't within the allowable punishments for jaywalking so that's a specious argument. However if you think Capone got all that time in jail for simple tax evasion you're nuts. Sometimes people of bad character are charged with what the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt but everyone knows the score and so they'll get the
Re: (Score:3)
"you sir are guilty of jaywalking, but because the arresting office has alluded to the fact that you might be a pedophile, I'm going to give you 15 years".. right.
Well, 15 years isn't within the allowable punishments for jaywalking so that's a specious argument. However if you think Capone got all that time in jail for simple tax evasion you're nuts.
Al Capone's sentence was less than half [wikipedia.org] what Ulbricht got.
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" soliciting murder for hire episodes"
Except that he was not actually charged with murder for hire. That would have required evidence, which is why federal prosecutors who run out of that pesky requirement have to fall back on fake economic charges like "money laundering." You can convict someone of this if bank records show that he (a) deposited more than $10,000 into a bank at one time or (b) deposited less than $10,000 into a bank on more than one occasion. They call they second one "structuring."
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You want to know who else is propping up illegal drug cartels? The governments who make it vastly more profitable to sell illegal goods with a high demand than to get those goods legalized and quality controlled.
Re:Missing option (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, and which one is the "cowboy neal" option?
Re: (Score:2)
A sentence of "cowboy neal" would violate his rights to be free from "cruel and unusual punishment"
Star-Lord! (Score:2)
Star-Lord man... Legendary outlaw? Guys?
Re: (Score:2)
I wanted "...and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Dude, I'm not voting in your poll (Score:5, Funny)
...if there's no CowboyNeal option.
You're not even trying anymore.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
You're looking for "He was framed!"
Re:Dude, I'm not voting in your poll (Score:5, Funny)
You're looking for "He was framed by Cowboy Neal!"
FTFY
Re: (Score:2)
You might be able to find anything there but at http://www.zombo.com/ [zombo.com] you can *do* anything. (Make sure your volume is up a little. No, it is not anything bad.)
I would have been happy with (Score:2)
I would have been happy with,
Ross Ulbricht was sentenced to life in prison, and all I got was this lousy CowboyNeal T-shirt."
A poll is not a news story (Score:5, Insightful)
A poll is not a news story and shouldn't be in the news feed. Please put it back in the sidebar where it belongs.
Re:A poll is not a news story (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, they should put it back in the sidebar where it belongs.
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A poll is not a news story and shouldn't be in the news feed. Please put it back in the sidebar where it belongs.
Slashdot is no longer either "news for nerds" nor "stuff that matters", as evinced by the front page. What the front page tells us about Slashdot by making declarative, self-referential statements is the following:
Re: (Score:2)
try not viewing your screen through a microscope.
Charges? (Score:2)
What are the 5 actual charges of which he was convicted? I've looked an numerous sites and none of them really spell it out.
Re: (Score:3)
Obviously, as a free ross site; the coverage isn't exactly neutral; but there is lots of good information
http://freeross.org/the-case-t... [freeross.org]
Count One: Distributing OR aiding and abetting the distribution of narcotics.
Count Two: The distribution of controlled substances intentionally accomplished by means of the Internet.
Count Three: Conspiracy with others to violate narcotics laws.
Count Four: Engagement in a continuing criminal enterprise (kingpin charge)
Count Five: Conspiring with others to commit OR aid and
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
Count One: Distributing OR aiding and abetting the distribution of narcotics.
Count Two: The distribution of controlled substances intentionally accomplished by means of the Internet.
I love how tacking "internet" onto a law magically makes it different. Surely they could be even more redundant. Why not "The distribution of controlled substances intentionally accomplished while being a human" or "The distribution of controlled substances intentionally accomplished while intentionally using a computer on the internet while being a human"?
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I agree however that is consistent with US law.
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Obviously, as a free ross site; the coverage isn't exactly neutral; but there is lots of good information
http://freeross.org/the-case-t... [freeross.org]
Count One: Distributing OR aiding and abetting the distribution of narcotics. Count Two: The distribution of controlled substances intentionally accomplished by means of the Internet. Count Three: Conspiracy with others to violate narcotics laws. Count Four: Engagement in a continuing criminal enterprise (kingpin charge) Count Five: Conspiring with others to commit OR aid and abet computer hacking. Count Six: Conspiring with others to traffic in fraudulent identification documents. Count Seven: Conspiring to commit money laundering.
Wait, who was on trial? Google? Ford Motor Company? Cox Cable? Any of those companies also engage in all of those activities, intentionally or unintentionally.
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" intentionally or unintentionally" is the key here. Intent is a huge matter in criminal proceedings.
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https://ia601904.us.archive.or... [archive.org]
Your list is missing the "Attempted Murder for Hire" charge, which is actually why he got (and deserved) the life sentence.
Too bad your an AC, because that was an interesting post and link, and people should see it.
However, you are mistaken. He has not been tried or convicted on the charges in Maryland.
Ulbricht's alleged murder plots transformed Silk Road from a politically conscious, pro-drug online market to a dangerous and militant drug cartel.
So, where are those murder charges now?
To date, there have been precisely zero murder charges filed. Instead, the indictment has been changed without explanation, the formal ch
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What are the 5 actual charges of which he was convicted? I've looked an numerous sites and none of them really spell it out.
Why not Google it and find out. Or, just visit the Wikipedia page on Silk Road (marketplace) and go to the references and download the PDF complaint filed in New York against him. BTW, it was seven charges, not five. And no, I am not linking to things for you!
Life in prison (Score:5, Insightful)
...for a non-violent crime. Step back and think about that for a moment. Now you tell me: are human beings the enlightened species we envison ourselves as, or are we merely clever beasts at the top of the animal kingdom?
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...for a non-violent crime. Step back and think about that for a moment.
I agree that his sentence is waaaay too long, but from what I read elsewhere, it seems he went out of his way to piss off the court, and if so he has reaped what he has sown. (Which is really an indictment of the court system if anything - as they should be immune to such shenanigans)
Compare this with one of the actual drug dealers who rolled over and only got something like 10 years.
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Nope. One of the counts had a minimum 20 year sentence. He was convicted for a lot more than the minimum level for that crime alone and had a lot of other serious crimes to add to that. The detailed log he wrote showed him to be ruthless and calculating, he didn't show any kind of remorse before shedding some crocodile tears before the sentencing.
Really he deserve his life in prison as much as any other gang leader. At least he won't need to serve it in solitary confinement like some poor* bastards.
(* Even
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I'm all for abolishing prolonged segregated housing AKA solitary confinement. Enforced solitude is torture.
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Life in prison for a non-violent crime.
Should be the standard for the sort of shenanigans that bank CEOs and other big shots commit.
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But that's legal. You see, taking your money and giving you nothing in return is fine, but giving you something to make you feel good is not.
Fucked up country.
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(First, please don't split sentences between the subject and the body.)
Why do you think prison should only be for violent offenders? A lot of people from Wall St. did more damage to society than a simple murderer. Why shouldn't they go to jail forever, as opposed to getting out and going back to their lavish lifestyles.
How about a non-violent cause of someone's death... someone who swapped out saline for shipments of chemo drugs?
There are tons of reasons why I'd want someone in jai
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Why shouldn't they go to jail forever, as opposed to getting out and going back to their lavish lifestyles.
It is far more productive to take his property and garnish all future earnings from his new job at McDonalds. Prison is for people (violent or otherwise) who present immediate danger to others if not isolated. Prison should also be humane, regardless what you may think of the prisoners.
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Well, taking his property would be good as well. (Assuming that it isn't hidden in Switzerland) But prison is to not just about isolation. It's also about deterrence and retribution. I don't see how making them work at McD's would work. Would they have to take a job there? They couldn't work as anything else? What about the person who actually needs that job to live? How would that prevent someone who says "Eh, my 20's and 30's will be great, and like most American's I'll plan on my kids supporting m
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So... they get caught, pay a fine (less than what they made by their activities), and continue working on Wall St.?
How are they punished again?
I suppose that would force them to spend more money on hookers and blow and less on repossessable items like art.... so that's a win?
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Prison may not be the only way, but it's certainly the easiest. It's a system already set up where they are monitored 24/7, they have a shit job where most of the money is confiscated, etc. You're proposing an alternative. (On that has the complexity of the government going through and determining shitty enough jobs for them to hold... which is strange) Why is your proposal better?
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The judge talked about that argument quite extensively in her sentencing. She had read academic studies of violence in the drug trade and found Ulbricht's arguments about lessening violence to be wanting - she pointed out that the drug trade causes lots of violence upstream.
Now you can of course argue that this is only because drugs are illegal. And that might well be true. But even if America legalises every drug tomorrow, Indonesia is still gonna have the death penalty for dealing, and the illegal drugs t
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Was that the crime he was sentenced for? Please cite a source.
Re:Life in prison (Score:4, Informative)
So far for the accusations, now let's take a look at what they actually manage to get sticking, shall we?
What's left is drug trade, money laundering, document forgery and the criminal charge of doing it all for money and being the head of it all. In short, nothing worse than the average pharma or bank CEO does, too. Only that they get bailed out if they fuck up, not locked up.
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No. I know that I am.
You get that way after a while, I guess, if you have to see too much of what's going on in the world. Bitter, cynical, jaded and eventually sociopathic. And quite antisocial. And very pissed.
What makes me bitter, jaded, cynical, antisocial and a few other things is that I can't with a straight face defend anymore what my, or any, country is doing. I uphold the laws for the one single reason that I have not found a good enough reason to warrant risking jail time. As far as I'm concerned,
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Gladly. Mind you, I'm in the pitchfork and rope business.
...and get this off the top of the page (Score:5, Insightful)
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Putting it at the top of the page forces me to look at the same (effectively a) story over and over until it changes.
It forces you? Man, if you don't learn to ignore things you don't want to look at on the internet, you're gonna have a bad time. How many times do you look at the Slashdot front page in a day, anyway? I mean, I have the same illness, but if it offended my eyeballs I just wouldn't do that.
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I have the opposite complaint. If the poll is any good, it's on the sidebar for quite awhile. If it's on the front page, at most it will be visible a day, then nobody will ever see it again.
Polls, "Video Bytes"??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Dice, please stop ruining this site.
Getting tired of using Adblock to remove all these elements.
He knew the job was dangerous when he took it (Score:2)
Super Chicken [cartoonresearch.com]
Murderers who are geeks are still murderers = Life (Score:2, Informative)
He ordered and paid for at least 5 murders (which makes him a murderer). [wired.com]
Regardless of your beliefs on drugs, commerce, privacy, and free enterprise; a murder is a murder.
Why do it in the US? (Score:3)
His biggest problem would have been not having paid taxes. If he'd actually managed to pay correct taxes, he'd probably get five or seven years and walk after two or three (probation).
Extra points for marrying a local and producing a kid or two - extradition would then be very unlikely, IMO.
People who do this in the US are just stupid and ultimately deserve to get incarcerated.
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A court just ruled he did.
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Conspiracy to distribute narcotics is generally a crime. In a lot of places they execute you for that, so he got off pretty light. Had U.S. prosecutors wanted to, they could have pursued charges of conspiracy to commit murder. That does potentially carry the death penalty.
He was stupid. He very publicly and blatantly demonstrated his disrespect for the police by operating so openly. He foolishly assumed that his very public network couldn't be infiltrated by professional infiltrators. He should be gra
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It appears that, for whatever reason, the murder charges have been dropped [wikipedia.org].
If the court is not completely impartial, they may choose to impose penalties for acts which they "know" to be true, but lack sufficient evidence. Or for some quality of character of the defendant that they don't approve of. The propriety of this behavior can be argued endlessly. People are imperfect and the court system is made up of people*.
*Remember this if you ever go to court: Your life is in the hands of twelve people who wer
Re:Hired a gun (Score:4, Informative)
He tried to hire a hitman, so with that attempted murder, I wouldn't lose sleep if he got the death penalty.
You realize he wasn't even charged with attempted murder right? And he certainly wasn't convicted of attempted murder.
Count One: Distributing OR aiding and abetting the distribution of narcotics.
Count Two: The distribution of controlled substances intentionally accomplished by means of the Internet.
Count Three: Conspiracy with others to violate narcotics laws.
Count Four: Engagement in a continuing criminal enterprise (kingpin charge)
Count Five: Conspiring with others to commit OR aid and abet computer hacking.
Count Six: Conspiring with others to traffic in fraudulent identification documents.
Count Seven: Conspiring to commit money laundering.
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I totally agree, if that is what he was charged with.
For what he was charged with, the sentence was overkill.. I do really think that if they really believe he was trying to hire someone to kill someone, then they definitely should have charged him with it... Even if they weren't sure they had enough to make the charges stick. Maybe they still will.
If they think that he wasn't actually serious about trying to have someone killed, then it shouldn't get factored in to his sentencing.. If only because it give
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Actually I take a rather different view. When a person enters into an illicit business he agrees to play by a different set of rules, and when a person engages in blackmail, especially within such a context, I don't really see what value the law provides (aside from the fact he wasn't charged with any of this)
In truth, I see it as a twisted form of self defense. It was a bad situation, and a situation entirely caused by the law. This situation, and the myriad of variations on it has caused many many deaths
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When some one tries to hire a hitman, or even loads a weapon (not applicable in this case), they should know that they can end up dying as a result of their action.
He tried to hire a hitman, so with that attempted murder, I wouldn't lose sleep if he got the death penalty. Don't care about Silk Road aside from possibly feeding money to those that want to kill us (as a civilization). Silk Road doesn't even need to factor into this.
If he wants to take a life, he should be prepared for his to be taken in like. Simple and clean.
He was not on trial for attempted murder. Those charges were dropped. What proof do you have that he tried to hire a hitman? If you have proof, perhaps you should bring him up on charges.
Re:He got off easy (Score:5, Insightful)
What did he do to deserve this? Flaunt his contempt for the law? So? A damn lot of CEOs do it all the time, and all they get for it is bail outs, not jail terms.
Tell me, what did he do that was worse for you, me, the economy or anyone who doesn't want to deal with him than anything bank managers have been doing the past 8 years. Please tell me! What damage did he do to deserve this?
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Why bother? He can ruin your life far easier and far more profitably.
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What's in his heart? How's that relevant to what punishment he gets? Are you saying that if I commit a crime but I'm truly sorry and not that kind of guy you will let me off?
You deserve the time the law says you get for the crime. Unless somebody can substantiate the claim that his sentence was illegal for the convictions he got, then the courts did what they should. If you don't like what the law prescribes, then get after the legislators to change the law...
If you are trying to say he might not be gu
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Aggravating circumstances.
Re:are you dumb? (Score:4, Insightful)
He probably killed over 10,000 people from overdoses and violence on the supply side. Care to change your vote now?
In the US, there are under 20,000 deaths a year from all illegal drugs http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cm... [drugwarfacts.org]. There are 400,000 deaths a year from tobacco, and 100,000 deaths a year from alcohol.
OK, I'll change my vote. He deserves to go free.
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Try to make that argument in a murder trial.
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Try to make that argument in a murder trial.
Drugs and murder are so politicized, that prosecutors can sometimes get away with anything at a murder trial.
But murder requires intent to kill somebody. Drug dealers don't want their customers to die. If they died, they wouldn't be buying drugs any more.
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Bullshit. He could have challenged the evidence without admitting guilt, he was even repeatedly encouraged to do so by the Judge but selected not to.
So the eventual "parallel construction" of the evidence doesn't even matter!
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That's what happens when you get DICED.
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This is actually somewhat topical, albeit apparently by chance.
If Silk Road specifically allowed users of its infrastructure to break laws using it, then they are culpable at least as accessories if not as conspirators. Apparently the jury was convinced this fellow was in charge of that, and he's getting punished. I would say "duly punished", but I do think life in prison for what he was convicted of doing is harsh.