Nano-pants 97
anvilmark writes "Saw an article at USA Today about a new manufacturing technology that adds stain-resistance and Gore-Tex like abilities to fabrics. The company Nano-Tex has developed a process that adds whiskers to cotton or man-made fibers that repel water but still allow sweat to pass. It's only supposed to add $5.00 to the cost of a pair of pants."
Cool (Score:1)
But then, it's compared to Goretex everywhere, and that has been around for a long time. It's pretty good if you do a lot of outdoor sports, but for most people it's not really useful. It's not *that* good. But this at least sounds like it's a lot cheaper and it can be applied to all kinds of materials! That is pretty cool, again.
And it's nanotech! I really thought that that wouldn't arrive for a long long time, if at all. It's not a 5cc sized super-super-computer yet, but it's at least useful, and most technologies don't become useful that quickly :-)
Re:i think i saw these things (Score:1)
Will this work on leather? (Score:2)
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GoreTex Construction... (Score:2)
See Gear Views [mountainwoman.com];
Thus, assuming you have the heavier duty "three layer" version, and it's still breaking down, that seems to me to not be the fault of the GoreTex layer, and not something that replacing GoreTex with something else would solve.
Perhaps they should be using Kevlar [dupont.com] or Nomex [dupont.com] (well, that's more for fire resistance!) for the outer shell; the point is that it is not likely GoreTex's fault that your clothing breaks down, and replacing it with something "better" without looking at the outer shell isn't going to gain you anything.
Only $5 More! (Score:1)
I'll believe it when I see it.
Relevance to /.'ers (Score:2)
"Me Ted"
many alternatives to gore-tex, sorta (Score:2)
The only problem is, they are probably based completely or in part on gore's patent. I have no idea how that may affect things, but they would probably be similar in characteristics to gore (ie, not quite up to the market hype yet). I've found Helly Hansen's stuff to be barely acceptable, but have had decent luck with REI's stuff.
Anyways, have fun out there....
Jason
Portland, OR
Re:This would make a good tampon (Score:1)
-Chris
...More Powerful than Otto Preminger...
Re:bad Subject line (Score:1)
Re:Cool (Score:1)
Though they do mention "How about self-cleaning textiles that are covered in nano-machines that eject dirt?", but that sounds more like USAToday 'journalism' then reality.
echo $email | sed s/[A-Z]//g | rot13
Finally - even better materials... (Score:1)
It'll be nice to have even better materials, especially dry ones! Living in Canada and doing work outdoors or even playing, I find that even the warmest clothes get too wet, and then become too cold!
But yeah, blankets made of this material would be beneficial as well in disaster relief - warm and wet.
Too bad I didn't have these clothes last weekend otherwise, I wouldn't have been sick in bed all this week.
Cartoon break...
Brain - And do you understand the ramifications of these nano-fibre pants, Pinky?
Pinky - Oooooh - they're shiny!
Brain - Yes, they are shiny...
damn..... (Score:1)
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pack
A new episode of south park is born (Score:1)
Military use (Score:1)
I suppose the military could find some potential uses for it too.
First reaction: (Score:1)
Seriously though, what the hell are they talking about Nano pants? I have scotchguard, and a few other stain resistant clothes (my kevlar threaded motorcycle jacket rejects stains very well) it just seems like yet another hype to make another $5.00 off the pants. It's not like this feature is going to cost the consumer $5.00, probably $10.00 to $20.00 as soon as the fad takes off.
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:1)
It's not like Gore-Tex(tm). It's more like a form of DWR. It will have very low pressure resistance, but probably high breathability. Part of the issuse will be what type of fabric the threads are woven into. If it's a micro-fiber type of fabric (ultra fine threads woven very tightly) it could be wind proof and have Activent (a discontinued form of Gore-Tex-lite) like water resistance (which is to say, so-so in wind driven rain)
Yes. This is worthy of slashdot. (Score:4)
Stain resistance and water resistance will be required of any fabric used in the construction of "smart clothing". If you are going to embed a computer/telecomunications device in a jacket/shirt/whatever, you will need to use a material that will repel any elements that might be harmful to the circuitry.
Sometimes we have to remember that things that appear "low tech" on the surface can often be catalysts to future advancements.
Hot Grits (Score:1)
How is this different than Goretex? (Score:2)
Re:to which cost? (Score:1)
Re:i think i saw these things (Score:1)
:)
Re:bad Subject line (Score:1)
--
High-Tech Put Downs (Score:2)
You may be right: (Score:1)
Bill Clinton (Score:3)
Gore-tex patent recently expired (Score:1)
You probably know this, or have noticed the competition, but the best news is that the patent on gore-tex expired within the last year or so. Pretty sweet news if you ask me... It's been pleasantly surprising how many other versions of gore-tex have been showing up.
I've noticed that Helly Hansens verion is only OK, but REI's has been working pretty well for me. They've all kept more water out, but haven't been that good at letting sweat escape.
Anyways, just rambling....
Have fun out there,
Jason
Portland, OR
Re:Yes. This is worthy of slashdot. (Score:1)
It's trivial to encase the circuitry in some protectant, which is really going to be necessary anyway, 'nano' fabric or not.
I think the only reason the story made it to Slashdot is because of their propensity to post anything containing the prefix "nano". What a bunch of crap.
Re:Silly nano-tech (Score:1)
-B
fuzz flotation (Score:2)
So I guess not only will these garments be waterproof, but pretty buoyant as well. "Nano-fuzz" clothes might prove safer to wear on a boat. I remember using air-filled t-shirts and jeans as floatation devices in the Boy Scouts... a run-of-the-mill cotton t-shirt doesn't hold air very well.
-Erik
Re:Silly nano-tech (Score:1)
I get up in the morning, pour nano-fat globules on my nano-starch wafers, which I consume thereby filling my body with nano-fuel.
Or I could say that I ate cereal for breakfast!
Clothing tech is fundamental to all humanoids (Score:2)
It is believed that the Cro Magnons superceded the Neanderthals in Northern Europe largely because of the greater thermal efficiency their sewn clothing gave them.
While I agree that Gore-Tex has many fine qualities, it seems to me that it's biggest problem is its shiny nylon-ness, which precludes its wearing in many "civilian" situations.
The prospect of wearing regular fabrics that have been given an invisible nano-shield to our delightful British weather is a very exciting one.
Yes, I cycle for transport year round. No I don't necessarily want to look like "A CYCLIST"
i think i saw these things (Score:3)
oh, those were just really small pants..
mybad.
Re:many alternatives to gore-tex, sorta (Score:1)
I looked recently for a Gore-Tex rainsuit for bicyclists and the prices didn't seem any lower than last years or the year before.
When you mention the REI stuff are you talking about Gore-Tex or some other type of breathable water resistant technology? I figure a guy from Portland ought to be in the know about this sort of thing....
Nano-Pants (Score:1)
I don't think that's what this stuff is for... (Score:1)
What I understood from the article is that this stuff does let water through (sweat), it just doesn't let it soak into the fabric itself. So the, say, hot grits you accidentally pour on your pants will soak through but not soak into (thus preventing stains and making it easy to wipe off). You're still going to get wet and burned.
As for extreme environments (cold) where getting your clothes soaking wet can be deadly, I don't know if this would apply too well. I mean, you'd still get wet, and it'd get inside your clothes and on your skin, but your clothes wouldn't stay wet... They just kinda pass the moisture through on to you. Then it would evaporate away just like sweat would, making you cold. But I don't think you'd stay cold (wet) as long...
Or did I miss your point?
No more laundry (Score:4)
Self-cleaning clothes? Where do I sign up? Then all I need are some nano-bots with little nano-irons to get all the wrinkles out. They could call them... nano-moms?
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Nanofuzz vs. Gore-Tex:a (not so) breif explanation (Score:1)
This stuff is not like Gore-Tex (which is a waterproof-breathable system) but it could be used with GT or other WPB fabric systems.
The technology discussed in the article would be an alternative to a DWR coating.
Huh? DWR? wha?
Here's the explanation. Why do mountianeers care about Gore-Tex and why to the residents of Washington state seem to have mixed feelings about it? Mountaineers care because in the mountains: wet=bad insulation, bad insulation=cold, and cold=dead, thus wet=dead. Mountaineers want to stay dry, even though they are sweating buckets hiking up hill with a heavy pack on in a storm. Why do people in Washington state complain that GT doesn't work - temperature and humidity differentials (or lack thereof).
WPB systems work by creating a layer of otherwise impermiable material with tiny holes (nano-holes, if you will) These holes are so small that liquid water, with its property of surface tension, can't make it through the holes (without a ton of pressure) but water vapor can move through. In the case of Gore-Tex the layer is a film of teflon based material that has been heated and stretched just the right about to create the right size holes. The film is then glued to a woven fabric (usually nylon based). Lots of people make the teflon film, but Gore is good at the gluing, not so much that it clogs the holes, not so little that you get delamination. There are some membrane based competitors, but many use a coating process. These are coatings that are unlikely to come off the fabric (in contrast to Durable Water Repellent coatings, but mor on that in a minute) Lowe Alpine's Triple Point Ceramic spreads a coating on the fabric that has tiny ceramic beads in it, as it hardens, the beads are removed, leaving the right proportion of the right sized holes. Others use a foamy goo that is spread on the fabric. Too thick and it blocks your sweat vapor. Too thin and it isn't waterproof. The cost is in quality control. Really good versons of this like H2NO Storm from Patagonia requires the kind of quality obsession that they are known for. The mid range stuff like Columbia's Omni-Tech is a compromise between control and cost. And there's some cheap crap out there.
So what's the difference. Well, Gore-Tex is really the best (and most expensive) Why? It is the most breathable (puts up the least resistance to vapor movement), most waterproof (it takes about 60psi to force water through it) and most durable (you can abuse it with out the laminate comming offf the fabric, wearing out the fabric is another issue, though) Runners up are Lowe's TPC, Patagucci's H2No Storm, Sympatex, Membrain, and a few others. This second teir is slightly less breathable, slightly less waterproof (to about 30 psi) and slightly less durable. These are the real value fabrics for casual skiing, back packing and running around town. The next rung down is dominated by Columbia's Omni-Tech. It's even less breathable, less waterproof (to about 10 or 15 psi) and less durable. It's a good bet for the ocasional skiier and totally does the trick for slogging to the mall and walking the dog, but doesn't cut it for backpacking or real backcountry use.
So where does the nanofuzz come in? It sounds like a great replacement for the Durable Water Repellent coating that all these jackets have. You see, once your sweat vapor gets through the little holes, it has to pass through the woven fabric. The synthetic fibres used in the coats don't like to soak up water like cotton, but the spaces between the fibres can get filled with liquid water, which blocks your sweat from escaping. DWRs cause water to bead up on the surface of the fabric, and not soak in. All the jackets you see at the outdoor shop have a fresh coat of DWR and will work great for a while. But as the DWR wears off (and it will) and as dirt and oils coat the threads, your jacket will start to absorb liquid water, and thus block your sweat from escaping. The jacket is still waterproof, but the water you feel on the inside is your sweat condensing on the inside of the jacket. By carefully washing and drying your jacket, you can revive the DWR to some degree, but eventually you will have to use a spray or wash-in treatment to re-coat the threads. It doesn't matter how high end it is, the DWR will wear out. From Mountain Hardwear to Columbia to Patagonia to REI to Sears to Marmot, they all wear out (cheaper faster) its just like changing the oil in a car - Mercedes are not exempt. It's as a replacement for the DWR that the nanofuzz could be great. By itself, though, the nanofuzz can't prevent liquid water from being pushed through the fibres by wind or a pack shoulder strap, so it won't replace Gore-Tex.
So why do Washingtonians gripe? It has to do with temperature and humidity. Gore-Tex works great in the cold, dry mountains. You huff up hill, and the inside of your jacket is 96 degrees and 100percent humidity. Outside it's 10 degrees and 10 percent humidity. Your sweat vapor really wants to move outside your jacket. But if you reverse things by, say, putting on your jacket inside an airconditioned trailer in a rain forrest, then walking out side, the warm damp air outside will drive water vapor into your cool, dry jacket. Not liquid water, but water vapor, driven by the difference between relative humidity across the jacket's layer. So what happens when you are hiking and it's really humid (like raining) and not so cold (like 70 degrees) like in Washington state? Not much. Your sweat isn't being drawn out of your jacket very fast because of the minimal difference between inside and outside. Instead it condenses on your skin and jacket and you feel gross and clamy. Hey, it's not majic, it's just priced like it is.
It's worth noting what you're paying for with Gore-Tex. First you are getting the best stuff out there. Additionally, you are paying for a fairly big ad campaign. But most importantly you are paying for some good engineering and quality control. When you want to make a GT jacket, you work with Gore to select a fabric that will work in the jacket and that the laminate will adhere to well (it is teflon after all). Then Gore inspects your production facilities (big whoop) Finally, Gore takes samples of your finished jackets and puts them on dummies in wind and rain simulators to make sure that your design doesn't let (much) water leak in around the neck or the zipper flaps. After all that, they let you use the "for extreme wet weather" diamond hang tag. If you are forking out the big bucks, look for the tag. Gore will sell you fabric and send you on your way, but without their quality assurance process you don't get the hang tag. (There are lower grades of tag to watch out for)
Just as an aside, it's worth ranting about The North Face. They started as a small company, founded by climbers who wanted really good gear, so they made it themselves (sound familiar) As the company grew the founders cashed out and went on to do things like by 10% of the land area of Chile. That left the 'managers' in charge of the company. For a while that wasn't so bad, the went on making some of the best gear in the world. As a result of that quality, the brand earned a great reputation. Several years ago, the management realized that they could cash in on the reputation. The core designers (think coders here) wern't down for becomming the next Nike, so they split and founded Mountain Hardwear. TNF got a hatchet job CEO, did an IPO, cut quality and tried to market the hell out of the crap they were churning out. (they recently got new management, so this might change) So if you are looking at North Face stuff, thinking that it's the best out there - it's not. What ever you imagine TNF stuff to be, Mountain Hardwear is what you are thinking of.
Note: I don't work for any of these companies, but I did work in a shop selling this stuff for two years (part time) and I use it as often as I can get away from my CAD station.
Re:I don't think that's what this stuff is for... (Score:2)
However, in very cold environments, many people experience that moisture freezes on the inside of the jacket, making an impenetratable shield. I haven't experienced this myself, I tend to think that it is due to that these people are wearing to much clothing, practically getting overheated (hey, yeah, it's cold, but not that cold! :-) ).
I could be wrong though, and in that case, this is something that would certainly make their life easier.
Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:4)
My only question is, what kind of pressure rating does it withstand before water leaks on through? Is this a shed a little rain type of PR gimmick, or is it suited to Real Wet Environments(tm)?
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Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:1)
sweat can pass but not water? (Score:2)
Oh no. I'll have to hold it all day!
Silly nano-tech (Score:1)
Of course I could be wrong, but none of the articles have a technical explanation.
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:2)
It sounds to me like you're dressing wrong. No single garment is supposed to do that, at least not current garments. If you think Gore-Tex is too hot, then you're wearing it up. If it's warm, you're not supposed to keep it closed up everywhere, you're supposed to open it up, or take it off entirely. And yes, even down to the temperatures you're mentioning.
Now this needs more emphasis than it gets in mountaineering textbooks: The secret to staying warm is to vary the clothing you wear all the time. Especially, you can vary body temperature very easily by wearing different clothing on the parts of the body were heat is easily lost, like the head, neck, wrist and indeed armpits.
Also, it is important not to wear too hot underwear. That's a very common mistake people make, they have very hot underwear, they get overheated and there's a lot of sweat on their skin, so when they stop, they get cold. The underwear you were should not be very insulating, only get the damn sweat away from the skin.
While walking, I seldom wear more than a Gore-Tex jacket and this thin underwear down to -20 degrees celsius (yeah, and pants of course). That's about -4 F, isn't it? Below that, I some times wear a thin fleece jacket. And when stopping to have lunch, get a very thick hat on, and a down jacket, and you should be okay.
After reading this... (Score:1)
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:2)
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:4)
No more unsightly spots... (Score:3)
1. "No, no, it's water that splashed out of the sink."
2. "What spots?"
3. "Damn, I'm inventing a new fabric, and I guess this versions still got bugs."
Re:Yes. This is worthy of slashdot. (Score:1)
nano-erotic stimulation (Score:2)
now everyone can have that just had an orgasm smile on there face all day long... makes sitting at a computer all day a little more bearable...
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:1)
If you're sweating at 0F or lower, then you are asking for trouble. Gore-Tex and breathable materials aren't the solution - unzipping your top layer before you start to sweat is. Your target is to _maintain_ your body temperature. If your clothes force you to try to lose heat they're wrong.
You're right about strategic (armpit) zips (velcro etc.) certainly, they're a big help.
FatPhil
(my birthday 1994, half an hour walk home at -25F, brrr!)
-- Real Men Don't Use Porn. -- Morality In Media Billboards
soo... (Score:1)
hmm... *shrug*
E.
www.randomdrivel.com [randomdrivel.com] -- All that is NOT fit to link to
Re:hun? (Score:1)
Because it can be done with cotton (Score:1)
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Awesome! (Score:1)
I already have a bunch of Gore-Tex lined gear, and it's great stuff. Not stain resistant, but hell, nothing a can of ScotchGard can't fix.
I do wonder though, is the only reason this got mentioned on Slapmeat because of the word "nano" in the name? ;>
A Quote (Score:1)
"Arrrrr, we must protect our precious cargo"
"Would that be the nano-pants sir?"
"Aye."
If you're sweating through your pants like that... (Score:1)
www.ridiculopathy.com [ridiculopathy.com]
News For Nerds. Fashion Matters. (Score:1)
has ./ turned into the fashion channel?
Re:No more unsightly spots... (Score:2)
-B
Look for new nano-tex products soon... (Score:1)
www.ridiculopathy.com [ridiculopathy.com]
Re:This would make a good tampon (Score:2)
Re:This would make a good tampon (Score:2)
Read this and lean something today [uiuc.edu]
Not funny, juvinile, purile. I guess you've never spent any proper time around women...
Sweet (Score:1)
That's just what's wrong with the industry (Score:1)
To whoever moderated my original comment down: you're an ignorant coward.
Cloths are a rip off (Score:2)
Lessons from Cartoons... (Score:1)
Gore-Tex or Bush-Tex? I use LaTex... (Score:1)
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:2)
Only $5 more? I'll believe that when I see it. (Score:1)
bad Subject line (Score:1)
Also pants [dircon.co.uk] is used as a term of abuse indicating lameness, as in 'those trolls are really pants [ezboard.com]'.
Maybe it's a British thing - I think it came from some Childrens' TV show using 'pants' as a substitute for a word that you can't use onTV
Anyway nanopants sound totally pants to me.
Re:many alternatives to gore-tex, sorta (Score:1)
Jason
woah (Score:1)
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:1)
it's pretty good at the latter, in my experience...not so good at the former...
Re:hun? (Score:1)
Is gore-tex great or an expensive way to get wet? (Score:2)
I hope this technology works, but it would have to be as good as gore-tex to be competitive, and it should be durable. I know most people who have gore-tex $500 n.f. jackets only walk accross the parking lot in them, but for those of us who escape to the mountains regularly it is critical.
-Moondog
to which cost? (Score:2)
If it's $5 to the manufacturing of garments then we can expect to pay a lot more. Well, I won't, the pants I have are perfectly fine at the job they are intended to do
Another Screenplay Spoof (Score:5)
20 Years Later.
INT. - LABRATORY - NIGHT
MONTAGE:JCPenny's display of Nano-Pants, Nano-Pants commercial of a little boy who seems to be peeing and smiling happily, Slashdot posting of the story...
What we need... (Score:1)
This would make a good tampon (Score:2)
So, then, when you want to wash them you would... (Score:1)
Just because my underwear isn't yet stained, doesn't mean that won't wash them every month or so.
So how do you go about washing them?
Sure the pants are only $5 more, but the high-tech 10000psi nano-washers will cost more than a P4, and probably work just as well.
you hurt my brain :) (Score:1)
Re:All your bases are belong to us! (Score:1)
They are not the first to have this product. (Score:1)
Re:Long sleigh rides... (Score:1)
Re:No more unsightly spots... (Score:1)
Eugh!
FP.
-- Real Men Don't Use Porn. -- Morality In Media Billboards
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:1)
Re: This would make a good tampon (Score:1)
And to answer the other poster who said that
Well, hey, the Pill and the first commercial tampon [mum.org] were invented by men. The female body being a part of the natural world, us guys are as entitled to think upon it and help out our sisters, mothers, and wives out as anybody. Claiming otherwise is about as dumb as saying only blacks should do research on sickle-cell anemia.Try this URL (Score:1)
Re:Nano-Pants (Score:1)
Re:bad Subject line (Score:1)
...and didn't realise...
We all realized it. But seeing it was a DISNEY movie aimed at a DISNEY audience, we largely ignored it altogether. (Though I'm sure Jay Leno and Dave Letterman probably made 2 weeks worth of jokes about it.)
-The Reverend (I am not a Nazi nor a Troll)
New URL: (Score:1)
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/ccarch/cckev00
Re:Another alternative to Gore-Tex? (Score:2)
Heck, it says that even in the summary up top; now, do you disagree? If so, why?
the next logical step (Score:1)
At least we wouldn't see any "how is this News for Nerds?" posts.
Re:Mmmm...Fire.... (Score:1)
Man dies after attempting a blue flame with new pants on.
It has "made in America" written all over it!
Re:This would make a good tampon (Score:1)
You're right about TSS. But do you really think that profanity and personal insults are the best way to get your message out? Your assumption that the poster was being "not funny, juvenile, purile" instead of simply being uninformed, is inflammatory and unhelpful. Why attack someone who, to all appearances, simply made an unwarranted speculation?
Contrary to what seems to be a popular belief, getting angry at people does not encourage them to listen to you.
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Go ahead, blame me... I voted for Nader!
Are you kidding? (Score:1)
Nano-Pants? (Score:2)
Ben
So I guess... (Score:1)
- A.P.
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* CmdrTaco is an idiot.