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Technology

American Solar Challenge Completed: Blue Went 158

Posted by timothy from the also-known-as-the-thumb-state dept.
s20451 writes: "The American Solar Challenge solar car race wrapped up yesterday in Claremont, California, with the University of Michigan winning. According to this article in the Globe and Mail, two Canadian teams finished in the top five: Waterloo and Queen's, finishing third and fourth, respectively. Go Canada!"
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American Solar Challenge Completed: Blue Went More

American Solar Challenge Completed: Blue Went

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  • Re:sun powers the world (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I quite disagree, everything is nuclear powered. If it was not for the big bang there would be no Indy 500. So as you see nuclear must be the way to go. (The sun is also nuclear powered so if it was not for fusion, and more exotic physics ...)

    This logic is quite amusing and incorrect.

    IANAG geologist, but as I recall oil was not created by fossilization of dinosaurs. At least it is possible to have oil (hydrocarbons) created without animal remains like in molecular clouds. Although most carbon comes from stars and not big bang, so almost everything was a star at one point or another.

  • Re:Stephen King, author, dead at 54 (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Truly amazing that if it was a coordinated effort, they would get it the same every time. You'd almost be led to think there was a way of directly copying words like these , and for lack of a better term, pasting them somewhere new, with no loss of quality.
  • It is becomming strangely apparent to some scientists THIS YEAR that petroleum may be created NOT FROM DEAD PLANTS but from a bacteriological process deep deep underground. you heard of oil-eating bacterium? well this is the opposite kind-of and is similar to the many types of life that reproduce and live and thrive from geothermal inorganic energy sources such as those under the ocean near volcanic vents.

    the sun is old tech.

    naturally one needs to decide what life is and isnt. prions and virii are considerred non-life, but bacteria is considerred life and some bacteria live without any benefit of the sun and do so on food sources not created from OUR current sun.

    I admit this petroleum thing is a shocker.... but it has some support and the mind numbing stupefying depths that oil is being found beneath granite is one reason to wonder.

    i wonder. but if true.... then the Indy 500 is not a indirect solar car race.

  • Lest we forget Second Place UMR... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I love Canada as much as the next person, but the good old Americans at The UMR Solar Car Team [slashdot.org] finished only 80 minutes behind big blue in a car cheaper than Waterloo's, and God only knows how much cheaper than UM's. More bragging on UMR: Their array probablly produced 25 percent less power than UM's, and they lost by like 2% in terms of time. But I'm not bitter. Watch for UMR in World Solar Challenge [wsc.org.au]...they'll have a pimpier array and be ready to beat some blue ass.

  • Re:On Canadia (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Can someone explain just how you do research on solar power in a place where the sun don't shine?
  • I worked with one of the teams on the design. A large portion of the cash went toward the solar array.. somewhere over $150,000. The battery arrays (top-end lithium polymer at 108V) also cost $100,000 or so. Layup on the 8-layer carbon composite shell was quite expensive. The framing was done out of cromoly steel tubing because we decided Titanium would be too expensive and hard to work with. The motor and controller were somewhere in the tens of thousands as well. All the electronics were designed and built in-house. Half a dozen microcontrollers using a dual-indipendent serial bus for redundency, etc... all designed in-house. We even milled the PCBs. =-) Our car had a remote tracking system. A wireless modem sending full telemetry at all times. Pretty cool. =-) Oh yeah... the paint job would run a cool $5000 too =-) pretty cool too look at. If we were to bill-out the labor for the car, it would run about $2 million+ I think. heh Too bad we didn't place... *sigh*

  • Re:sun powers the world (Score:5)

    by drsoran ( 979 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @08:03PM (#2189989)
    One would think that the intelligent players would already be expanding their business beyond the dead dinosaur fuel industry into alternative fuels. There's no reason the big fuel makers can't also dominate the production of alternative energy as well. If anything, they're the ones who have the know-how and the backing to implement such a massive widescale infrastructure upgrade. Alternative cars will NOT be feasible for Joe Average Consumer until there is a fueling station on everything block like there is today with gasoline and it takes less than 5 minutes to refuel. That means no sitting overnight while you tricklecharge your 60HP Rice Rocketmobile and that means not having to drive 30 miles away to fuel up your eco-geek car because they're the only ones that sell Absurdoline on your metropolitan area.
  • Riiiiiight? [something about voices]

    No! this is from Left field. Get it? Left field! HA!


    ~^~~^~^^~~^
  • You worship Clinton like an intern....[shudder]

    He would have pulled the same crap going on in Germany. He would have supported Kyoto in speach and even denounced those who didn't follow it, just like you said.

    But what you missed is that he would then turn around and get rid of every "always been running, never had a problem and never had a problem with waste storage" nuclear plant.

    Clinton loved maneuvers like that where he could say one thing and do another, and still look like the good guy. The man lived in, and helped others live in a fool's paradise. Sorry you had to come back to the real world, it doesn't look like you are taking it very well.


    ~^~~^~^^~~^
  • never had a problem as in...

    Anyone ever been injured by it?

    Any vegitation been harmed?

    A permanent place needs to be found that is a problem, but so far there hasn't been a problem.

    Now they have the problem of how to keep their agreement with the Kyoto achords. But in a fools paradise it is very logical, getting rid of all those bad plants. Indeed it is a success! But how are they going to make power and keep their agreement?


    ~^~~^~^^~~^

  • Re:Now, only if... (Score:3)

    by On Lawn ( 1073 ) on Friday July 27, 2001 @07:46AM (#2189993) Journal
    ...people would realize that this post was no where near insightful.

    We read a post where people are spending lots of money to expand this and other forms of clean energy. The winning car was $1M with grants from major oil companies and car componies! Thats a lot of money for a car that will only take a one way trip and will never break 2k miles.

    And then he writes as if speaking to a world ignorant to this he wishes people would relize we could expand on this and other forms of clean energy... And gets moderated up for it?

    Many other well informed posts actually discuss the practicality and requirements of this and other clean technologies. They are informative, insightful and educational. In the interest of real science Read them, this is mearly a fool looking for a paradise.


    ~^~~^~^^~~^
  • hexx wrote:
    I'm sick of you damn crazy hippies complaining all the damn time. If you hate the oil companies, stop using their products.

    Not a hippy, just a cynic :)
    --
    Join my fight against Subway's new cut!
    http://spine.cx/subway/ [spine.cx]
  • Who are we kidding? As long as oil companies have the power and money that they do, alternative power sources will never come into their own. Think what would happen if suddenly a new technology became available and oil wasn't necessary anymore. Many *major* companies would find themselves in economic turmoil and that isn't something that those companies are ready to have happen just yet.

    No matter how much better solar power, battery power, or natural gas power is, it's just not going to become prominent until some of the big players are good and ready for it to happen.
    --
    Join my fight against Subway's new cut!
    http://spine.cx/subway/ [spine.cx]
  • The fact is that fossil fuels and our current internal combustion engines are so inefficient that the big oil companies know that they'll be able to keep selling us lots of their product.

    If we're talking solar or battery power, what kind of hold do they have on the consumer? Certainly not the perpetual one they do now, with our incredible dependence on gasoline and oil. Once the battery car is bought, or the house is outfitted with solar panels, the major corporation's job is over.

    There's not even a remotely similar chance for recurring revenue in more efficient energy sources. And when you're all about making money, that's the bottom line.
    --
    Join my fight against Subway's new cut!
    http://spine.cx/subway/ [spine.cx]
  • About time guys, congrats to all involved. I don't know how many WEEF (Waterloo Engineering Endowment Fund) meetings I have been in and we have given money to Midnight Sun. I was sorry to hear about the mechanical probs last year.

    Of course the Mop and Pail, er Globe and Mail have details on Queens, typical. Oh and who did the CBC interview all race? Queens.

    Enough of that, good job guys and gals, you deserve a few drinks at the Bomber for that race! ;-)

    Gordo

    Waterloo ENG 01

  • Not if you listen to my Lecturer at University

    Fuel cells are heavy in weight at the moment, and he argues that it is more efficient to burn the hydrogen in a combustion engine (note must be modified to gain extra efficiencies). Unfortunately I can't find to much information on his research, apart from link below

    Still part of the problem is storing the hydrogen, as you need very heavy gas containers (heavier than your LPG tanks). But research is being done in storing the hydrogen in a phosphorous material to try and make system lighter and safer.

    I am more interested in using Flywheels, as the are making flywheels that can store a crap load of energy per unit weight. You double speed you quadruple energy stored. Also having flywheels that can spin for a year, without being recharged. Also there is some rapid recharge times available for Flywheels. As new stronger materials become available the energy storage per unit weight will increase even more.

    The problem with flywheels in car uses is that going over a pot hole could stuff the bearings, but they are overcoming this. The other problem is if the flywheel disintegrates, it could cause some big issues, but using new materials the will give properties that wont lead to total failure.

    References:

    Link EV batteries 1 [doe.gov]
    Link EV batteries 2 [emagazine.com]

    Research into Hydrogen Power Car - Combustion [mu.oz.au]

  • Way to go UMR!
  • Yes, but that $2 Million was all raised by student fundraising efforts. It all came from private industry sponsors- mostly automotive companies and automotive suppliers. It was a moumental task in itself to raise that much money.

  • And if you're a regular slashdot reader then you're well aware of the shortage of electricity in the US, that's probably their main reason for objecting to the Kyoto protocol.

    There is a good story [cbsnews.com] on CBS about power companies in California holding back power to raise prices.

    (I submitted it but it was rejected)

  • Re:Now, only if... (Score:3)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Friday July 27, 2001 @07:12AM (#2190002) Homepage Journal

    And I suppose you don't notice Dick Cheney's hand up Bush's ass.

    Bush is the goatse.cx guy?

    :)
  • The cost of the cars ranged from $30,000 to more than $1-million.

    I bet most of that went into top-of-the-line solar cells.

    The good thing about races like this is that effort is put into designing the very best cells possible, and a side effect is (eventually, we hope) better solar cells available to the community market.

    A major advance was made (the so called 'green cells' in Australia for the Australian solar challenge a few years ago).

    A good resource on PV cells (notice my Australian bias!) is http://acre.murdoch.edu.au/refiles/pv/text.html [murdoch.edu.au].

  • "There's no reason the big fuel makers can't also dominate the production of alternative energy as well."

    Oh, they will. But what's the hurry? There's still plenty of profit in petroleum.
  • Congrats to everyone on the U-M Solar Car team!

    Hail! Hail! to Michigan, the Leaders and Best!
  • The thing is, burning oil is silly - you yourself give examples of much better uses it can be put to - making plastics and paints, for example.

    It has been repeatedly demonstrated over the past 100 years that anytime anyone even claims to have invented anything that would effectively eliminate energy scarcity, that person is "disappeared".

  • What does "Blue Went" mean?

  • American Solar Challenge Completed: Blue Went

    I read the articles, but I still don't understand what the phrase "Blue Went" in this Slashdot article's title is supposed to mean.. Does "Blue Went" mean "Blue Won" or maybe "Blue Went [the distance]"? I'm baffled again by Slashdot's use of the English language.

  • Well, thank you kindly!
  • Sorry. The numbers were to illustrate a point, and I didn't spend the time to actually convert them. And it doesn't matter. The Canadian numbers are the ones quoted in my campus newspaper - so those are the correct ones.
  • They came back from incredible odds to win this one and it just shows what perseverance and hard work can accomplish.

    And an incredible infusion of cash.

    I'm not knocking the accomplishment (congratulations, by the way), but Michegan's effort was fueled as much by hard work as it was by cash. That car cost over CAD$2 Million (about $1 Million US).

    At this time, in shameless self-promotion, I turn your attention to the University of Waterloo (my school), which finished 3rd, in it's first-ever foray into the Open Class (no restrictions on components). Our car cost roughly CAD$250,000 (or a little over US$100,000). I'm immensely proud of the effort that the people put in, and I'm moved to volunteer my time next year.

  • On sunny days, and on flat stretches of highway, the cars hit speeds as high as 110 kilometres an hour.

    of course the cars are fairly flat sheets of carbon fiber composite that is only strong enough to support the solar panels, the drivers sits in a sling seat, the cars run on ultralight bicicle wheels and the need to either block of the road or have chase and tail cars to prevent them from getting damaged... definately not ready for prime time.

  • Let's see. Using the best technology available, the solar car teams learned a great deal about engineering. They also demonstrate just how impractical solar cars are going to be for a while: A one-person vehicle, nothing to speak of in the way of creature comforts, no night driving, no real safety if you get hit by something, etc.

    That means any practical electric car is going to need be charged by something other than solar, and unless you want to wait several hours per charge, that means high-speed charging stations. Who has the money to roll out this kind of infrastructure? Oil companies and electric utilities. Where does the electricity come from? Mostly coal, oil, and natural gas.

    So even if the world did away with internal combustion engines tomorrow and made every car electric, the major corporation would continue to take in the bucks.
  • Hail! Hail! To Michigan
    The Leaders and Best!

    I've seen this on a number of posts from Michigan people. I guess this is part of the brainwashing that goes on to make you feel good after they ream you for tuiton....
  • So, can anyone fill me in on the wiring problem that Solar Miner III had? They were leading the race, then fell back. An article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch mentioned a wiring problem in the solar array, which was repaired. However, I haven't seen any other info about that problem. Was enough time lost for that repair that the team couldn't recover first place?
  • Unless there have been some massive changes in solar array technology, the average solar car's pulling about as much power as standard hair dryer, as that's about all they have to work with.

    The speed differences come from motor technology (axial flux motors, developed by um....can't remember his name...a guy from NTU, in australia), which eleminates transmission losses, and from better weight reduction, and more importantly, aerodynamics.

    And well, as we all know, SUVs are lacking a bit in that whole 'aerodynamics' area.

    What you want isn't a solar car, but another one of GM's little competitions --

    http://www.futuretruck.org/ [futuretruck.org]
  • Which 'never had a problem with waste storage" nuclear plant.' do you mean? Since there is no long term storage facility for nuclear waste, so I'd think that all plants have problems with waste storage...
  • Come on all you Michigan people here! I know there's plenty of you here on Slashdot. Join me in a rousing chorus of the Victors!

    Hail to the Victors Valiant
    Hail to the Conquering Heroes
    Hail! Hail! To Michigan
    The Leaders and Best!
    Hail! Hail! To Michigan
    The Champions of the West!

    Seriously, though, you should all check out the trials this team had to go through. 4 weeks ago, their car was completely wrecked after an episode with some potholes and a ditch. They came back from incredible odds to win this one and it just shows what perseverance and hard work can accomplish. Those of you still in high school should really be thinking about going to this school, no matter what field you're interested in. It really has the best resources you could find anywhere in an undergraduate program, not to mention the caliber of the teachers, the students and the projects. From the engineering campus to the sports arena to the halls of history and literature, NOTHING beats Michigan.

    GO BLUE BABY!

    --

  • i guess you've never heard a michigan fan utter "go blue."

    go blue.

    now you have. heh.

    blue went.

    nobody
  • and they did it with less power than it takes to run a hair dryer...

    GO BLUE!
  • Absolutely; yes, they are. Look at their website, link included in many posts here.

  • Woohoo! (Score:3)

    by SirSlud ( 67381 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @10:34PM (#2190022) Homepage
    I went to Waterloo, and their solar car project is one of the babies of the university. I'm very proud to hear of both Waterloo and Queen's doin' the top 5! I did a 94% in highschool, and Waterloo kicked the crap out of me (Electrical engineering.) It's rumoured that the U of Waterloo's engineering program is one of the top 5 egineering programs (electrical, computer, systems) in north america .. I definately know it's the hardest in Canada.

    So go Canada! :)
  • Actually, I think ASC is longer. WSC is tougher though. WSC is 3010km whereas ASC is closer to 4000.

    WSC is somewhat tougher though. Honda did it in 4 days (kind of - they raced overtime on the last day and copped a penalty, but still won the race). It also goes through the middle of the australian outback, past alice springs, etc... So there's no spot to stop for repairs if something goes wrong. And that damn red dust gets in every possible crevice you can imagine! I had it coming out of EVERYTHING after the race for about a month! (Plus the arrays get dirty). Dave.

  • Heat your house with solar panels (which a good friend of mine has been doing since 1989 or so).

    Take a look at a site by Simon Cope describing the house he lives in [cope.org.nz]. It was completely powered by solar and wind generation for a few years. He was the first person to ask to be disconnected from the national grid. Then again he was the first to be connected back so he could sell his excess power to the grid. His power meter spins backwards.

    BTW, New Zealand may in a few months be facing blackouts because the hydro dams which we use to generate power from are fairly empty. Time to get a UPS and a power cell to go with the solar water heating.

  • Are you sure you go to the University of Waterloo? $2Million Canadian is $1.3Million American. $250000 Canadian is $163000 American. And I thought Waterloo was known for it's mathematical prowess...

  • Money (Score:3)

    by El ( 94934 ) on Friday July 27, 2001 @12:17PM (#2190026)
    The cost of the cars ranged from $30,000 to more than $1-million.

    Is the really a test of engineering acumen, or more of a test of who has the most money to throw at the problem?

  • I live in Canada and have only seen one application for solar cells here - they're used by one of the cities to power lights that let drivers know about school zones. These lights are also hooked up to a normal power line, so the solar cell system has a backup, or vice versa.

    My question is this: Will all the research put into more efficient energy conversion trickle down to Joe Sixpack one of these days, or will it be reserved for satellites or applications which are not mission critical?
  • I gradded in 1999 and you are definaitely right about Engineering and Math (which offers CS) being tops. I don't know about Physics. They started changing a bit: admitting a lot more people to qualify for certain federal funding, and cutting some classes from the Math core cirriculum. It's still tops, but it feels like we've lost some ground.

    But I may have old timers.

  • Ever feel the heat coming of your engine? That's a hell of a lot hotter than your car will get just sitting in the sun.

    Not to be pedantic, but this doens't make a whole lot of sense. The heat of the engine comes from wasted energy. I agree that a solar powered car wouldn't be able to be as wasteful as a combustion engine, but that really isn't a design goal.

  • Hey Scott - yep, it's me.

    Yeah, I transfered over to York, where there are no engineering competitions or programs yet - Computer Engineering is starting this fall. I would drop by the Midnight Sun "office" every once in a while this past year (to visit my sister, while in Waterloo). It's really amazing how they pulled together. They were barely together for the qualifier everyone in ASC had to go through. However, they spent more time prepping afterwards, which really helped them gel, and get ready.

    Anyways, it was good to see the competition between the Canadian team. Queen's really caught up. They were only 45 minutes behind the Waterloo team overall.

    Dan

  • No doubt.. kicked the crap out of me (Computer Engineering no longer, now at York - Admin Studies with a major in IT). I wouldn't be surprised if the Engineering program is one of the hardest programs in North America. I give lots of respect to all my former classmates. I've worked with other students and grads from CS and from other schools like UT, Ryerson, etc... I find that UW Engr students have an edge on other guys. I respect UT's program a lot, too, but the UW co-op really sharpens the UW guys... anyways, that's a thread for another day.

    dan

  • California Dreaming (Score:3)

    by daniel-san ( 100185 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @10:28PM (#2190032)
    My sister was one of the backup drivers for the Midnight Sun VI [uwaterloo.ca] team.. Heck, I'm wearing a Midnight Sun VI T-shirt right now! Anyways, This is UW's best placing so far in all their years racing. So congrats to all the guys and gals on the team!
    Here's a vignette from one of her updates:
    Driving the solar car: Is plenty of fun! I've driven through Missouri, Oklahoma (where I experienced an unpleasant bout of dehydration), New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona. The most beautiful places to drive through are New Mexico and Arizona. NM has gorgeous mountain ranges and scenery that is taken straight out of a Western movie. I drove through the Zule mountain range into Albuquerque and also from Flagstaff to Kingman, Arizona. The stretch of geography from NM into AZ is incredible. In the evening, as the sun sets, the most beautiful hues of colours are reflected off the mountain ranges and the stars are brilliant against the night sky.
    Apparently, they were the loudest gang out there. Go Team! Now it's prep time for the World Solar Challenge [wsc.org.au].
  • The winning car cost over $1M.

  • Re:sun powers the world (Score:4)

    by hexx ( 108181 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @08:31PM (#2190034)
    Who are we kidding? As long as oil companies have the power and money that they do, alternative power sources will never come into their own.

    I'm sick of you damn crazy hippies complaining all the damn time.
    If you hate the oil companies, stop using their products.

    It *is* possible to live without them. I believe about 60% of the planet does.

    And if you don't want to live in the stone age, do your best to avoid the most obvious oil company products: plastics and gasoline. Use an electric car. Don't use a straw or a plastic lid when you eat fast food. Don't buy polyester clothes (yeah, you're not a pimp anyway). Heat your house with solar panels (which a good friend of mine has been doing since 1989 or so). Stop using certain paints and other coatings on your car/house/toenails. Power your house with energy from a company that uses hydroelectric or nuclear (deregulation can be ok if you're outside California), etc.

    If the linux revolution has shown us *anything* it should be that we CAN AVOID THE CORPORATE BEHEMOTHS!

  • The race was to be held in the middle of the mojave desert, which means no shade to be found, and the entire race held during the dylight hours. In other words, the conditions in which they race would encourage the building of a system with few or no batteries at all. Again, encouraging the design of systems that could never become actual products.

    On the contrary, each car has a battery pack that's needed to power the vehicle. Ours [sunsetters.org] had eight. And just because it's during daylight hours doesn't mean there's always sun.

    Furthermore, going "as far [as] a requestion [of] the requirements for entry" includes going to a website. You want a cookie for that? If that's going far, then I highly doubt you'd've gone any farther to tackle design, fundraising, and actually building something as complex as a solar car.

    Finally, I don't suppose it occurred to you that the designs the teams come up with, while sometimes not directly able to "become actual products", are in fact advancing solar car design. You're probably not going to find a lot of Indy 500 design go straight to your Chevy Malibu, but you can bet that a lot of the technology gets shifted in that direction. Above all, there's more to life than coming up with a product. Building teamwork among the members, gaining experience in your field of study, raising awareness of the possibilities of solar power, and a downright good time seem like pretty good reasons as well to get involved.

    ================

  • Actually, there are two classes: stock class and open class. In the open class, you can do whatever you want. Ultra-efficient (and ultra expensive) solar cells. Lithium Polymer batteries. The whole nine yards. In the stock class, everyone has to conform to certain technological limitations to level the playing field. This avoids the "who has the most money to throw" problem while still allowing bigger teams to go all out. If this weren't so, that post would deserve the mod points, yeah. However, it's not so.

    ================

  • I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you here, because you're obviously mistaken, but too proud to admit it. Which is unfortunate.
    I will say this, though:

    In the desert, there are no clouds 99% of the time, which means it IS always sunny.
    A) The race went from Chicago to Claremont, CA. Most of that is not desert.
    B) The second day was cloudy. [sunsetters.org] Good luck raycing under your conditions of "few or no batteries at all."

    It seems I'm one of the few that sees through that misconception.
    Yes, you're right. It's amazing that a script kiddie like you can see the pointlessness in all of this while the folks at MIT, Michigan, Stanford, A&M, Berkeley, and Yale choose to foolishly continue. I think you should give them all a call and share your wisdom.

    If you're desinging hovercars, you don't design one that will only work in perfect labratory conditions... That simply wastes time and money of developers that they could be using to make something that would work.
    Once again. You ARE right. Henceforth, whenever engineers make something new, they should just skip the lab part and go straight to building third generation prototypes--just think of all the time and money saved not having to learn from generation one and two. Heck, why not save some REAL time and just skip the entire R&D phase in favor of going straight to mass production... What time savings there will be! I think you should make some calls to Ford, Chevy, and Honda, too--they'd be interested in this plan you have.

    The technology in Indy cars certainly does not benefit consumer cars in any way. When was the last time you saw a car that went over 200MPH, had a roll cage, etc.
    Call Goodyear and ask them why they're interested in Nascar. They'll have lots more to say besides that it's good advertising. But I suppose you're going to tell me that tires are also an "already developed, mature technology," so Goodyear should kill it's R&D department, too, because tires are perfect already. By the way, tell that to Bridgestone/Firestone, too, I'm sure they'd like to know that the recall last year wasn't their fault because that's as good as tires get.

    Ciao.

    ================

  • The Sunsetters [sunsetters.org] from NDSU [ndsu.edu] kept daily updates [sunsetters.org] with pictures that were really interesting.

    Congrats to the #1 rookie team [sunsetters.org]!

    ================

  • Club membership requirements for them probably looked like this: they either bring and share beer/chicks, or be really good at cleaning up after Ph.D. students.

    Ha! There are no chicks near North Campus (which is where the solar team works)... I guess the undergrads would have to import them from Central Campus.... Perhaps they can use a solar-powered transit system to shuttle the girls to north campus though...
  • First off, here are a few articles on the UW team:

    Then there's the official Midnight Sun [uwaterloo.ca] site.

    Paul

  • I want to commend those who worked
    on the project. Let's Go Blue!
  • Right now Europe, Japan and large US cities are getting to a point where there is a need for them, and hence the support for the kyoto accord, while countries like Canada and Austrialia and the less densely populated regions of the US are against it*.

    Canada endorsed the kyoto protocol once credits were put in for forests, which Canada happens to have a lot of (and this help clean our air). In terms of energy production, the vast majority of Canada's electricity is actually produced by hydro-electric damns, which produce no greenhouse gases.

    Most of our greenhouse gases come from transportation (duh, the country is huge). This contrasts with the US (and probably the rest of the world) were most of their greenhouse gases is from electricity generation (coal, gas, etc). And if you're a regular slashdot reader then you're well aware of the shortage of electricity in the US, that's probably their main reason for objecting to the Kyoto protocol.

    A lot of the pollution in Canada (especially eastern Canada) actually comes from the US, so many Canadians are upset that the US did not sign the protocol.

  • Here's [hydroquebec.com] a good pro-hydro propaganda "flash" presentation, courtesy of Hydro-Quebec.

    As you can see, the majority of Canada's electricity is generated by hydro-electricity. Near the end they show the prevailing winds in North America. You can clearly see that the air in the U.S. mid-west get blown into eastern Canada, including Toronto.

  • Heck, I'm wearing a Midnight Sun VI T-shirt right now!

    You wouldn't be Dan Tshin from East-A first year, would ya? ;)

    Back on topic though, I graduated from UW last year, and I always remember how dissappointed the Midnight Sun team was each year... they always seemed to have a great car, and a great team, but many times came home with the "hard luck" or "persistence" type awards. Congrats to the UW team, hard work will always pay off in the end!

    Also a congrats to Michigan and UMR for their first and second place finishes, respectively. These are the kind of competitions that drive the future of technology! Congrats to everyone who took part!

    - Scott W.

  • I always remember how dissappointed the Midnight Sun team was each year...

    Sorry, I didn't mean EVERY year; just many years. After all, Midnight Sun IV was pretty successful, wasn't it?

  • It is simply not possible to propel a 2 ton object to sustained speeds of 70mph based only on the solar energy absorbed by the top surface of the vehicle.

    I don't know about the US, but the average speed of cars doing the popular journeys (commute, school run, shopping) in the UK is a long way below 70 MPH. IIRC the average speed of a car driving in london was measured down nearer to 10:-).

    Besides which you don't need to drive the car totally by solar. If you have a car with some kind of hybred power system and if coverring the flat surfaces with cells cut your fuel/recharging bills by, say, 5%, then that is a win.

    (obviously it depends on the cost and efficiancy of the cells, which is what this kind of challange is supposed to drive forward).
    _O_

  • if you are driving in a city, the power requirements are actually higher than on a highway.

    How is this chaneg in the laws of physics implemented? :-)

    this can be easily proven by looking at how vehicles are rated for gas mileage.

    Standard IC engines have a most efficiant running speed (hence the gearbox). Also Much of the problem is that you have to keep stopping, turning the kinetic energy you just payed for into heat. There may also be issues of drag and friction from the aerodynamics, the suspension and so on being designed for some range of speeds.

    For city use a vehicle should be designed for maximum efficiancy at whatever the average commuting speed is and also have a regenerative breaking system of some kind. Some busses are like this (eg the ones with chuffing great flywheels for energy storage).
    _O_

  • I recently considered entering one of these races, and went as far a requestion the requirements for entry. I expected that these vehicles would either:
    a) Have few restrictions on design
    OR
    b) Be restricted to semi-DMV regulations. Aproximating standards a consumer vehicle would need to meet.

    Oh was I ever wrong. The rules I read were so strict and odd that any development put into these cars could never be translated into a real product. I wouldn't have any problem believing that the pertolium industry sponsored these races, as they take up the time of solar designers, while the stringent rules ensure no product will be made of the design.

    The race was to be held in the middle of the mojave desert, which means no shade to be found, and the entire race held during the dylight hours. In other words, the conditions in which they race would encourage the building of a system with few or no batteries at all. Again, encouraging the design of systems that could never become actual products.

    When that tiny, oddly shaped, one-man solar cruiser rolls by you, try to realize that there is no way it could be translated into an actual consumer vehicle. All the solar races being done are teribly anti-productive, and holding back the design of the *perfect* car we've all been told is just around the corner (and they prove how close we are to having our solar cars by showing intreiging solar races).

    ---=-=-=-=-=-=---

  • just because it's during daylight hours doesn't mean there's always sun.

    In the desert, there are no clouds 99% of the time, which means it IS always sunny.

    Furthermore, going "as far [as] a requestion [of] the requirements for entry" includes going to a website.

    I don't know to what you are refering, but it was not that simple in my case.

    I don't suppose it occurred to you that the designs the teams come up with, while sometimes not directly able to "become actual products", are in fact advancing solar car design.

    It occurs to everyone, It seems I'm one of the few that sees through that misconception.

    If you're desinging hovercars, you don't design one that will only work in perfect labratory conditions... That simply wastes time and money of developers that they could be using to make something that would work. It doesn't apply to indy cars as they:
    a) Are an already developed, mature technology, &
    b) The technology in Indy cars certainly does not benefit consumer cars in any way. When was the last time you saw a car that went over 200MPH, had a roll cage, etc.

    ---=-=-=-=-=-=---

  • A) The race went from Chicago to Claremont, CA. Most of that is not desert.

    You act like there's only ONE solar car race out there. Yes, that is not all desert. Just because the handful of things I poited out don't apply perfectly to this paticular race, certainly doesn't mean that my point isn't valid. Of course, you understand exactly what I mean and don't want to hear it, so providing more instances would be a waste of time.

    B) The second day was cloudy. Good luck raycing under your conditions of "few or no batteries at all."

    Yes. You've established it wasn't all desert. Then again, the article says they had to pull over and wait for the sun to come out. This is the matter where the solar racers have very small battery banks.

    whenever engineers make something new, they should just skip the lab part and go straight to building third generation prototypes--just think of all the time and money saved not having to learn from generation one and two

    When engineers design a prototype, the design something that approximates a final model. Even if you want to disagree with the fact, there have been tons of solar racers thus far, and calling them prototypes is ridiculous. They're one step away from being a radioshack kit.

    Call Goodyear and ask them why they're interested in Nascar. They'll have lots more to say besides that it's good advertising. But I suppose you're going to tell me that tires are also an "already developed, mature technology," so Goodyear should kill it's R&D department, too, because tires are perfect already.

    Most ridiculous statement so far. Goodyear is in it for targeted publicity. You'd be just as well off asking Powerade why they are sponsors of the olympic game. It sure as hell has nothing to do with R&D.

    While Tires have plenty of room for improvement, none of that comes from race cars of any type. Raceing vehicles do not race when it rains, and tracks are in nearly perfect conditions. The tires therefore have no treads at all, and are a lot softer and wider than normal tire. Goodyear is developing NASCAR tires so they can make better NASCAR tires... The product does not translate to consumer anything.
    Your statement about firestone tires is so ridiculous I don't know where to start. CRT PC monitors are a mature technology, but somehow Dell can't seem to make monitors that don't spontaneously burst into flames... That doesn't mean that the technology is limited, or responsible, and a doing CRT research by developing Flatscreens would not do them any good either.

    ---=-=-=-=-=-=---

  • Yeah, great... With a budget of over $1,000,000 and a staff of Ph.D. students who are writing their dissertations on this, just how much do you think the undergraduates got to do? Club membership requirements for them probably looked like this: they either bring and share beer/chicks, or be really good at cleaning up after Ph.D. students. I bet you it was a lot more fun and instructive to work on the teams that came in 10th or so.
  • I don't even know if there are any Ph.D. students on the team!

    Then you obviously don't know much, not even the stuff that's printed in the articles. And if your Ph.D. students blow off dissertation work (remember, several are writing their THESIS about this... wait, of course you don't remember... you didn't read the article!) and $1M in funds because they have better things to do, I'd love to see those better things.

  • Isn't the whole "no drilling in the US" awful hypocritical? If the Earth is unified and all that, isn't it just as bad to buy oil that was drilled in Saudi Arabia?

    If you're not going to boycott using oil entirely, you have no business boycotting it in the US.
    ********************

  • There may be alternatives but consumers aren't going to use them until they are cheaper than oil.

    We are not there yet. The current choice isn't between US oil and alternative sources. It is between US oil and a continued dependance on foreign oil. It's wrong to let OPEC have such power over America's economy.

    And why can't we do both anyway? There's no rule that says the government couldn't allow further drilling in various US land and not also fund alternative energy sources.

    I also suggest you use a paragraph marker once in a while before you criticize anyone else's grammar.
    ********************

  • Hail to those mother*uckers

    Hail to those motherfuckers

    Hail to those old cocksuckers

    Hail! Hail! to Michigan

    The cesspool of the West!

    Hail to those fornicators

    Hail to those masturbators

    Hail! Hail! to Michigan

    The cesspool of the West!

    Sorry, after graduating from Ohio State it just becomes a knee jerk response :^)

  • Detailed race results (Score:3)

    by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @07:52PM (#2190056) Journal
    The day by day races results can be found here [formulasun.org]:

    Chicago to California is a decent road trip

    On another note

    On sunny days, and on flat stretches of highway, the cars hit speeds as high as 110 kilometres an hour.

    which is starting to be respectable.

  • Go Blue indeed! I write this from A2 where I'm in class this week. This needs to be up at 5 immediately, for no other reason that simply Michigan fucking kicks ass.
  • How about usable, nevermind affordable.
    Those things are like fiberglass bikes with
    tiny electric motors, handful of electronic
    parts and lightest battery possible.
    Comfort? Safety? Are you mad? Pushing
    on sunlight alone is quite a feat.
    This is a academic challenge at best.
    Many techologies will come out of it, but
    I can't see myself driving solar powered
    vehicle even in 100 years. There must be
    a dense enegy accamulators, like gas now,
    fuel cells, whatever, where densitiy of energy
    per cubic centemiter is good enough to
    push at least triple weight of me and my
    suitcase. Cumilitive energy tanks - whatever
    they are will be the future of the transportation.
    Why? Because global warming is here,
    oil companies need something they can stick
    their hands into so they can provide us with
    service. Not like I defend them, but it would get
    real ugly, oil companies will all over sudden
    be obsolete.
  • Yes, the champions get an automatic invite, and it would kind of be "insulting" for them not to appear.

    The rest of the top ten can seriously consider going- they have to do some extra qualifying, but it's not much. I'd say the top five in the ASC should do respectable in the WSC, but I would guess that only the top three (Michigan, UMR, and Waterloo) really have a chance placing somewhat high.

  • Are they going to the World Solar Challenge? (Score:4)

    by sasha328 ( 203458 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @08:33PM (#2190060) Homepage
    World Solar Challenge [wsc.org.au] is the probably the longest solar car race. It started about 13 years ago. It is scheduled for Nov or Oct this year.
  • "The cost of the cars ranged from $30,000 to more than $1-million"

    That's great ! I was wondering when the new models would finally become affordable.

  • On another note

    On sunny days, and on flat stretches of highway, the cars hit speeds as high as 110 kilometres an hour.

    which is starting to be respectable.


    They forgot to mention these flat stretches of highway were at a 75 degree angle.
  • The sun doesn't shine in Canada! ;)

    All kidding aside, solar cars are ridiculous. It is simply not possible to propel a 2 ton object to sustained speeds of 70mph based only on the solar energy absorbed by the top surface of the vehicle. Ever feel the heat coming of your engine? That's a hell of a lot hotter than your car will get just sitting in the sun. And forget air conditioning -- you are doing MORE work cooling the air from the ambient 80-90 down to 70 than the sun would do raising it to 100. Never mind that the air conditioning is not perfect and will lose a lot of energy from its own operation. The only practical energy solution is hybrid electric with regenerative brakes.

  • 1 horsepower is about 750 watts. Even at 100% efficiency, that's still like 6 HP.
  • 1 tonne = 1000 kg
    1 ton = 2000 lb
    As you say, wise up.
  • I think there is a serious misunderstanding about the WHY of the Kyoto-protocol here : if we keep burning oil at this rate, the average temperature on earth will rise with 5,8C. (that is about 10F)
    The key here is : AVERAGE, some places will heat up by up to 20C, other will get colder, AND : there will be a serious increase of the number and intensity of storms, Furthermore the environment will deteriorate : much more desert, plus a decline in biodiversity.
  • A UN study : http://www.unep.ch/iucc/fs108.htm [www.unep.ch]
    some recent studies about the temperature rise itself :
    BY IPCC : (PDF,long article) http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/spm22-01.pdf [www.ipcc.ch]
    by ipcc : (PDF,Very long, very technical) http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/wg1TARtechsum.pdf [www.ipcc.ch]
    EPA : http://www.lter.uaf.edu/~davev/nrm304/glbxnews.htm [uaf.edu]
    by NCAR :http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/0107 20093052.htm [sciencedaily.com]
    There are already some effects : http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/01072 6101653.htm [sciencedaily.com]
    overview of effects by region : http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/sr97.htm [www.ipcc.ch]
    We already missed some heating by sheer luck : http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/04/01042 4072410.htm [sciencedaily.com]

    Of course, most of these documents are just models, but ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE A CHANCE ???
  • World Solar Challenge is the probably the longest solar car race. It started about 13 years ago.

    This is the advantage of solar energy. Your average petrol car would have had to stop for fuel after a couple of hours...

    cmclean


  • isn't everything in the world solar powered?

    if it wasn't for the sun, nothing would ever have been alive (dinosaurs), resulting in no fuels such as oil and gas...

    indy 500 is just an indirect solar car race.

  • The winning car averaged 40 MPH during the race. maybe it didn't weigh two tons, or have xtra-large cupholders, but it's still pretty impressive for a "car" powered entirely by 8 square meters of solar cells.
  • I am insulted, for those interested however here it is:

    UWaterloo.ca [uwaterloo.ca]
    Midnight sun (the car) [uwaterloo.ca]

    GO WATERLOO!
  • You're not from Ontario, are you? Hydro is in the minority, and with the nukes being shut down, the bulk of Onatrio electricity comes from the 'thermal' generators, i.e. oil, coal and natural gas. When Toronto has air quality alerts, it's from the local smog, not sepage from the States. I think only Quebec generates the majority of its electricity from Hydro, but it's been a while since I worked in the industry, so things may have changed.
  • I'm aware of the dams in Northern Ontario, but the reason the nukes were built in the first place was that the dams were tapped out. And, I wasn't implying that the generators were causing the air pollution, I think that in heavily populated areas, the majority of the air pollution comes from vehicles.

  • Re:Woohoo! (Score:3)

    by tb3 ( 313150 ) on Friday July 27, 2001 @04:24AM (#2190085) Homepage
    Everything is tops at UW, or at least it used to be (I gradudated in 1986). Back then, it was the top engineering school, the top CS school (Microsoft recruited heavily) and the physics program (that I graduated from) was a bear. It sounds like things haven't changed.

    The solar car project is a teriffic achievment, I only wish it had been going on when I was around. (Back then we had cars mad of wood and stone, etc)

  • But mummy, mr bush said burning oil wont harm the world as long as our economy is good

  • I live in Canada and have only seen one application for solar cells here - they're used by one of the cities to power lights that let drivers know about school zones.

    A few years ago in Edmonton the EPCOR building installed solar cells on its roof; the power replaces the conventional power supply to the top few floors of the building.

  • Congrats to the open class and overall winner team, the University of Michigan.

    Nobody on here has yet mentioned the stock class where significant monetary and technology limits were placed on the cars. So, I must of course congratulate the University of Arionza, who won the stock class by more than 20 hours.

    Bear Down, Arizona!
  • "Go Blue" is a traditional University of Mighigan cheer.

    Therefore, since the race is in the past, one might say that Blue "went".

  • UM Team (Score:3)

    by 4n0nym0u53 C0w4rd ( 463592 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @07:48PM (#2190096) Homepage
    The UM solar car team's web site Here [umich.edu] has some neat photos [umich.edu] of the team and the car, as well as the wind tunnel testing, etc...

    Pretty cool, now if they can only get it so that you could power an SUV...

  • Re:sun powers the world (Score:3)

    by America ueber alles ( 466478 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @08:53PM (#2190098)
    It's not the evil corporations, it's the Stonecutters, dammit!

    Who holds back the electric car?
    Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
    We do! We do!
  • Actually, Bush is spending more money to "burn more coal". That is an actual quote.

  • Now, only if... (Score:3)

    by davidcorny ( 467721 ) on Thursday July 26, 2001 @07:35PM (#2190138)
    ...people would relize we could expand on this and other forms of clean energy instead of spending money to burn coal.

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