Molecule Sized Transistors 132
IceFoot writes "Bell Labs announced it has created organic transistors with a single-molecule channel length, more than a factor of ten smaller than anything that has been demonstrated even with the most advanced lithography techniques. The really cool part is the transistors assemble themselves: the molecules do the work of finding the electrodes and attaching themselves. Webcast on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time"
Old news (Score:2, Funny)
Slash Doter
(Back from hiatus!)
Re:Old news (Score:3, Funny)
Okay I'll beat all the trolls to the punch (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:/. = Greedy Capitalist Pigs ? (Score:1)
Step one accomplished... (Score:4, Insightful)
And Step 3: Can we make new things with this that we couldn't before, or will this just help us shrink down current things?
And Step 4: How can this make us more money (only the salespeople worry about this one)?
And don't forget Step 5: How can this get us laid (only the engineers typically worry about that one)?
Re:Step one accomplished... (Score:2)
Assuming these get cheap enough for research purposes in the near future, imagine a few pounds worth of sub-cellular sized nodes arranged in a neural net processing pattern, maybe attached to some video and audio imput.
I see into minds, you see, and you have no idea how complicated they are. -- Isaac Asimov
Re:Step one accomplished... (Score:1)
Re:Step one accomplished... (Score:1)
Re:Transistors assemble themselves? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Transistors assemble themselves? (Score:1)
Bizarro-world, indeed...nitwit.
Never forget: if nature can do it, we can too. It just takes time and ingenuity.
Re:Molecular Intelligence (Score:1)
Chemical compounds will often attach themselves to a substrate - some chipfabs use a similar technique to grow transistors, but it's done with a high-pressure silicon vapor.
This has nothing to do with bacteria at all. No DNA, no mitochondria.
I dunno why I'm falling for this troll.
Re:Molecular Intelligence (Score:1)
Re:Molecular Intelligence (Score:1)
Re:Molecular Intelligence (Score:1)
Re:Molecular Intelligence (Score:1)
Yes! I warned them about the same thing when they invented electricity. It's essentially lightning we're making here. It's dangerous when it hits a tree or a person. Imaging the wrong person getting hold of 'electricity' and throwing it across the sky towards your house while making very loud noises!
Re:Molecular Intelligence (Score:1)
Don't worry, at least no-one's trying to shut down your arcology and do nasty things with AI-controlled nanites.
[checks his watch]
Yet. :-)
Makes you wonder (Score:1)
Help it's stuck to my fingers .... (Score:2, Funny)
Mr. Moore (Score:3, Insightful)
It just seems like there is a finite limit to how small we can make these things, and it looks like we're approaching that limit, so where to next? Get rid of transistors all together and use a different method? Optical matricies that perform switching functions? Who knows, but I know I'm excited to find out what happens next.
Quantum Thingies (Score:2)
I'm sure there will always be room for more.
Re:Quantum Thingies (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.eet.com/story/OEG20000831S0019 [eet.com]
Re:Quantum Thingies (Score:2)
The main problem with quantum computers is contianed in the follong equasion:
xpÖh
The real problem is why? Why is Planck's constant roughly equal to the product of the imprecisions of the position and velocity. Is this due to quantum "noise" or some other form.
Of course, the whole universe could be one gigantic quantum computer and we could just be programs.
Re:Quantum Thingies (Score:1)
Optical Logic Devices (Score:2)
It's going to be much easier to build a decimal or hexidecial adder/math device with optical components since light can be controlled more precisely than electricity. This is, assuming of course, that the process can be carried out on a truly optical chip. Currently the only benefit to optical technology when used inside a logic system is speed of transmission.
wrong-o (Score:1)
And kudos on realizing the whole 'powers of 2' thing. That had us all stumped for a while.
Wrong-o^2 (Score:2)
Uh, not quite. Single electrons have half-integer spin and thus obey the pauli exclusion principle [ucl.ac.uk], while photons (spin zero) obey bose-einstein statistics [ucl.ac.uk]. This makes electrons "avoid" each other while photons "congrigate" (condense). But both may be viewed as either waves or as particles, and the WP duality per se has no effect on their behaviour.
-- MarkusQ
Re:wrong-o (Score:1)
For a good explanation of this phenomena, I sugest feynman's QED.
Tim
Re:Mr. Moore (Score:1)
+1 Funny on the MQR standard (Score:2)
To paraphrase Harlan Ellison, I have no mod points, and I must laugh.
-- MarkusQ
Re:Mr. Moore (Score:1)
Liked the quote (Score:2, Insightful)
I wonder if this will prove to be true, or if, like so many feats of miniaturization, be proven incorrect further down the line.
And God said, "Let there be Windows"
And behold, the earth was without form and void,
save a giant blue glow upon the heavens.
Re:Liked the quote (Score:1)
Smaller, thinner layers of insulator are possible maybe, but 1/1000000000 meter is about as small as layers made out of atoms and molecules are going to get. In other words, one molecule thick is as good as chemistry can do even in principle. Hence the "bookend" comment, probably.
True by definition? (Score:1)
And what are the specs? (Score:5, Informative)
I don't care if you can make a transistor with a gate length of
Until Bell releases some more data on how this device can perform, don't get too excited....
Re:And what are the specs? (Score:1)
No
Re:And what are the specs? (Score:3, Funny)
shitload n. more of a thing than i have at any one time
Re:And what are the specs? (Score:1)
Or big memories (static, no capacitors). Wasn't there article about solid state memories as replacement for harddrives on /. recently?
Re:And what are the specs? (Score:2)
Although, the fact that they are organic is very interesting. Imagine, organic molecules with the processor's structure coded into their DNA, all you do is go down to the local computer parts store and pick up an eyedropper. then you put it's contents into a little dish lined with electrodes on your mother board. Next throw on some Miracle Grow, and wait overnight.
Re:And what are the specs? (Score:3, Informative)
If you had a transistors that were proteins then yes, they could in theory be produced by a cell, i.e. the transistors would not have to be cellular for his dream to come true.
Re:And what are the specs? (Score:2)
Web pages are easy to write, but only if you allow enough time to complete the CGI backend, and test, and bigfix, and retest...etc...
BTW, thanks for getting through to my caffeine addled brain.
I think just pretty boy did it (Score:1)
hot digiity (Score:3, Funny)
I saw the webcast (Score:5, Interesting)
However, the thing that they do not mention in the announcement is that Bell Labs continues to have problems with the chemical bonds between molecules decaying quickly on these transistors. It is similar to the problems that plague engineers of DNA processors, another cutting-edge-but-hopelessly-broken technology. In fact, despite all of these new achievements that promise to revolutionize the industry, silicon is still king and will be king for many years to come.
-CT
Where are have the good electrodes gone? (Score:4, Funny)
The really cool part is the transistors assemble themselves: the molecules do the work of finding the electrodes and attaching themselves
Great, now even my transistor will find a significant other before I do.
Now, can it... (Score:1)
Yes, this was somewhat offtopic, but it does have to do with nano-tech... so sue me. hehe
great! (Score:1)
awesome timing by /. once again.... (Score:1, Insightful)
[flame]It only got posted on the front page at 4:20 Eastern. Awesome timing as usual.[/flame]
Re:awesome timing by /. once again.... (Score:1)
Re:awesome timing by /. once again.... (Score:1)
*sizzle*
Reliability (Score:4, Insightful)
BlackGriffen
uncertainty principle (Score:2, Informative)
Self-assembling layers that are one-molecule thick are really common and very stable. Examples include cell walls (I know where several trillion are), soap bubbles, etc.
Thermal fluctuations have many orders of magnitude more energy (1/40 kT, where k is Boltzmann's constant) than the quantum mechanical fluctuations associated with the uncertainty principle. Since room temperature doesn't make these things fall apart we can immediately stop worrying about quantum fluctuations. Also, 1 nm is big enough that quantum tunneling of electrons isn't a problem, especially at 5 V (or whatever they use in chips). The scanning tunneling microscope uses gaps that are ten times smaller and voltage differences that are thousands of times larger.
Re:uncertainty principle (Score:2)
I expect these things will eventually be useful as implants. Think of it as a VERY high bandwidth link to a computer
I was reading the other day about some other things that "aren't quite ready for prime time" but should fit right in here. Neurons cultured on layers of silicon. Engines that can turn blood sugar into electricity. Specialized robots that can slide into a cell and self-assemble. (No real time control proposed here. Just do what you're designed for where you are targeted. This one uses chemical targeting, either custom designed [look for a molecule like this:
But if you merge those ideas with a computer built from molecular circuits... Live Action 3D with SmelloVision isn't even in the ballpark.
Re:uncertainty principle (Score:1)
Re:Reliability (Score:2, Informative)
Built in obselete feature (Score:2, Funny)
Organic transistors (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Organic transistors (Score:3, Funny)
- Freed
"Don't label me flamebait, I own 5 Macs myself."
Miniaturization and power (Question) (Score:2)
What I want to know is; how does power consumption scale in regards to transistor miniaturization? If I can make a chip require ten times less space, how much less power will it need? If size and power scale ~equally, how does this mean that Dragonball CPUs will soon be crammed into watches?
Re:Miniaturization and power (Question) (Score:1)
Nahhh ... gotta get the color camera out of the way first. :)
On a serious note, would static be even more dangerous of shorting out the circuits?
Re:Miniaturization and power (Question) (Score:2, Informative)
it depends, if they're running at higher frequencies the power usage will increase. Plus with smaller transistors they usually pack more on a circuit, so more power is required.
However, the power required to switch a transistor is proportional to the *square* of the voltage, so if you can lower the voltage required you've got a big win. And with smaller feature size (miniaturization) they might lower the operating voltage a bit. So the answer is....it depends.
Molecular Transistors have already been done (Score:5, Informative)
Further, Tour and his group have synthesized molecular transistors (he calls them "Moleisters") about a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, I can't bring up his web pages to find the reference to the papers.
Re:Molecular Transistors have already been done (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/pubs/trans/9904/87
-- red.
Re:Molecular Transistors have already been done (Score:1)
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/pubs/trans/9904/87
-- red.
Re:Molecular Transistors have already been done (Score:1)
reappears back each time
Re:Molecular Transistors have already been done (Score:1)
oop's a space popped up in the middle, sorry
You can avoid the problem by embeding the link in an html anchor tag and specify "HTML formatted" instead of Plain Old Text:
Here's the link [ieee.org]
At least, I've never had a problem.
Shape of turn-on curve... (Score:3, Interesting)
Modern short-channel MOSFETs are an ungainly compromise between being on and off. We can manipulate the threshold voltage, but so far we can't change the shape of the turn-on (essentially the gain) curve very well. The practical upshot is that modern transistors are perched somewhere between leaking too much DC current and not being strong enough to drive signals with the strength we need.
At the moment, there is no such thing as low-power, high-performance deep submicron logic. It's the nature of the transistor, not the clock speed.
you know what that means... (Score:1)
We've got good news and bad news... (Score:4, Funny)
Bell Labs scientists Zhenan Bao and Hendrik Schon have fabricated molecular-scale organic transistors.
The bad news:
As you can see in the picture [bell-labs.com], they are REALLY BIG molecules!
Sounds good but what about.... (Score:2, Funny)
Coming soon! (Score:2)
Molecule sized cell phones implanted while you wait!
GPS tracking implanted while you wait!
PS9 seems to be closer than you think!
But really. This is a great advance. It could lead to pacemakers or other medical equipment less likely to be rejected by the body and also last longer.Very good news indeed.
Goran
transistors shamsistors (Score:2)
Vague and Over-Hyped (Score:3, Insightful)
molecular-scale transistors that rival conventional silicon transistors in performance
And rival here means what? Slower, but will become faster; Slower, but less power? Aren't we aiming for superior in all facets, not just size?
factor of ten smaller...
A Million Times Smaller Than a Grain of Sand
In what dimensions? Width, Area, Volume? What are the actual dimensions, and not just the molecule switch, but the whole gate arrangement?
A good switch perhaps, but it looks as though it is still hooked up to conventional circuitry, unless I'm reading there diagram incorrectly. This isn't so much nano-technology, as a nano-coating on existing technology. Self assembly doesn't impress me in a coating.
Self-assemble the paths in and out of the circuit and then we'll talk.
It was only a matter of time... (Score:1)
Cool guy (Score:1)
"I basically just go through lots of samples of different materials, connect each one to electrodes, and see if it conducts. Nothing too exciting." I guess now I know what understatement means.
In theory it's all well and good... (Score:2, Interesting)
You notice that... (Score:1)
Where's the "innovation"?
Re:You notice that... (Score:1)
Re:You notice that... (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Interesting (Score:1)
"You have the bridge, Mr. Data" (Score:1)
Could this mean the creation of Neural Network pathways are closer than we think?
First apps? (Score:1)
Re:I'm just glad there was a woman in the story... (Score:1)
> non-Indian [...] body odor [...] beard
> Maybe [...] more women will do Engineering
> and engineers can enjoy attractive females
> without spending [...] money downtown (apparently on rental-women)
Gee, something tells me if this is how you talk to those women you still won't be getting dates.
Re:I'm just glad there was a woman in the story... (Score:1)
Re:I'm just glad there was a woman in the story... (Score:2)
There is nothing wrong with that woman. For all you know she could run linux on her desktop, smb share her mp3s, and kick ass in counterstrike.
-
I like a woman with a head on her shoulders. I hate necks. - Steve Martin