Fuel-Cell Backup Power Under Your Desk 220
An Anonymous Coward writes "Just up this evening on the Coleman Powermate web site: This is the first
commercial fuel cell product that I am aware of. Who wants one under their Christmas tree?" I just wish the fuel wasn't quite so expensive.
no remote management? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are not having it under your desk but in machine room like they show on one of the pics, you will never know if it's actually in good health.
Also I did not see an indication that it could tell a computer to shutdown before it runs out of fuel.
George
Re:Specs (Score:1, Insightful)
You'd be better off buying a bank of rechargable lead-acid batteries and a charger/inverter. [tracebackuppower.com] Not to mention that you'd probably be able to generate output at much more than 1kw with such a setup.
The only benefit I can see here is space savings, and the ability to generate power indefinitely assuming that you have a big stock of these hydride canisters on hand. Otherwise, this stuff is way too expensive, and I'm assuming that you can't recharge empty canisters with utility power...
Re:Ridiculous... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why just H2? (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this released? (Score:3, Insightful)
Aspects of this page indicate it's not yet released. For instance, lots of stuff is XX'd out; and if you click on "Fuel Cells" in the nav bar, you get a notice implying that the product is not yet ready.
Is it possible that this is not the final pricing? It could be an early number, could be the very top (so nobody claims "false advertising" if they stumble across it later, when they set the real price), could be misinformation for competitors, whatever.
Oh, nobody's mentioned numbers yet, but to get a single data point, you can get an APC's Matrix 3000XR [apc.com] (which sustains 500kW for about 5:15, and is in many ways more capable-- higher peak, for instance-- but obviously-- can't be refueled during a power outage). It's listed at $3750 US.
what you have to realize (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:Great.... If you can afford it. (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing you might be missing is that you are paying for two things with each bottle of fuel: the fuel itself, and the bottle that's holding it.
For example you might pay $416 for a new bottle of fuel, but get a $350 credit when you return the empty one (I couldn't find their actual price for fuel refills, but since they're using a metal-hydride storage technology, the cost of the cylinders will be significant).
Is it the fuel that's expensive? (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess we'll wait and see.
Canisters are expensive, not fuel... (Score:3, Insightful)
This isn't bad for something that can be used indoors. It's also especially good for extreme environments where it's too cold outside for a gas powered generator to start in the winter.
Re:Hydrogen in my house? (Score:2, Insightful)
Suppose you have a tiny leak in the propane cylinder: the propane will accumulate in your cellar, it'll reach the explosive concentration (IIRC around 5 percent), and your house explodes when something creates a spark.
Hydrogen is lighter: it can't accumulate in the cellar, it'll leave through your roof. Therefore it won't reach the critical concentration and it can't cause a big explosion.
But that's only true if you don't have a huge leak in you hydrogen tank.
#insert picture of the exploding spaceshuttle.
According to their description they store the hydrogen bound to metal atoms.
That's the safest and most expensive way to store hydrogen. It's expensive because you need special metals, but it's absolutely safe because the metal only releases hydrogen at a very low rate - too low to create an explosive concentration.
Re:Ridiculous... (Score:3, Insightful)
You put your generator outside (roof for example), and run the power cord inside the building. Power cord and the penetrations through walls for it are orders of magnitude cheaper than ventilation ducting.
think mainframes vs. PC's (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, this thing is expensive, seemingly inefficient, and probably impractical... for now. But keep in mind a few things:
First of all, Ballard (the company that makes the fuel cell in this thing) has said all along that they're going to have the really practical consumer devices in the market in 2005 (I think it's in their annual report [ballard.com], if memory serves). I think anything you see out there earlier is going to be a test product to smooth out the edges in production.
The infrastructure to support hydrogen fuel (the price of those canisters, for example) is one of the things that needs to be smoothed out as well. The price of fuel should come WAY down with centralized production.
Ballard fuel cells can also run on other fuels (methanol, for one) but at a reduced efficiency and with a slight hydrocarbon emission (still something on the order of 3-5% of what comes out of a combustion engine, but enough that you couldn't run one in a closed room).
Yes, hydrogen fuel takes energy to produce, but so does fossil fuel extraction and then once you've got, say, gasoline, it gets burned inefficiently and with lotsa nasty waste products. I know cars seem to be getting more efficient all the time, but every car I know of requires a separate system to keep the engine cool (read: waste heat) and I wouldn't put my lips on a tailpipe. Fuel cells do their thing at 75-80 degrees F, and when hydrogen-fueled, the only output is distilled H20. That's it.
Once practical devices come to market , they'll have the potential of decentralizing power, with that huge advantage of EFFICIENCY. And aside from the abovementioned advantages, don't forget to factor in power loss from transmission through wires. A world where fuel cells are practical everyday devices is nothing less than a PC revolution for power: power plants for all! Think an power Gnutella as opposed to the power grid. After all, I'm sure some folks were saying "Two thousand dollars for 64K of RAM? These things'll never catch on" twenty years ago...
Re:Great.... If you can afford it. (Score:3, Insightful)
If the canister was simply priced by the weight of the raw materials of it's construction, that would in no way repay the cost of the research and development of the canister, the method to safely encapsulate the H2, and of course testing, testing, testing and certification for whatever government agency would concern itself. All this could easily be multiples of the simple cost of the raw materials - even it's weight in gold.
And all of that ignores the cost of mining, refining, and manufacturing the canister itself.
Re:Great.... If you can afford it. (Score:3, Insightful)
1. The pic on the website doesn't just look like a bottle of motor oil, it is a bottle of motor oil. It's a symbol, just like the PC motherboard that appears next to this story on the Slashdot homepage. They're not actually selling hydrogen in cheap plastic containers.
2. The storage container wouldn't be made of platinum (although the fuel cell itself probably contains some), but it could be filled with palladium [resource-world.net] or other exotic metals. More information about metal-hydride storage is here [ectechnic.co.uk], but the bottom line is that you're paying for a lot more than an empty jar. These fuel bottles are like rechargeable batteries, except you can't recharge them at home.
Re:Ridiculous... (Score:2, Insightful)