Simply GNUstep Delivers UNIX, Simply 396
Eugenia writes "A new, Linux-based operating system released recently, called Simply GNUstep and it is based on the GNUstep architecture, originally built by NeXT (OpenSTEP) and is now also used by MacOSX (Cocoa). The alpha version of the x86-based OS is available for download and boots off the 110 MB bootable CD. The cool thing about Simply GNUstep is its partial source compatibility with MacOSX programs (further compatibility is still worked on) and its clean infrastructure, as it only includes GnuSTEP graphical applications like WindowMaker, Mail.app etc. You can read an introduction article of the OS at OSNews."
Why Linux?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno.
Good to see (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember trying to get GnuStep to work a few months back. The code compiled pretty cleanly, and I played around a bit with the development framework for GNUStep (which is rather cool btw, makes writing build files for apps extremely clean, and ObjectiveC is an extremely nice language).
I just wish there was a better way of integrating GNUStep, KDE, and Gnome. I really think a concerted effort by all three teams to support a common base (common component interfaces, clipboard, look&feel configuration files) would be beneficial for all involved.
GNUStep brings with it a good, tried&true development framework.
KDE & Gnome are both more evolved, with more and better applications.
Getting these to work together would be a worthwhile proposition.
-Laxitive
openstep (Score:3, Insightful)
My point was that if he did this, and developers did adopt the platform, he'd end up with lots of apps that would run on the Mac, and would thereby neutralize the Windows API proprietary boondoggle.
He ignored my advice at the time, and this is nice, but too little too late to solve the problem of creating a true platform-independent API that developers would want to write to.
Re:The sad part is.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I am getting tired of my Gnome and KDE. I am starting to long for the days when I used WindowMaker
So... simply don't use them. Remove the packages if you don't even what to support apps written for them. Install your prefered GUI/WindowManager and don't look back. Seriously. It's that easy. You don't need a "special" distro to do what you want. Just simply install / remove what you want / don't want.
That's what Linux is all about: choice
Re:Interesting, PowerPC version? (Score:3, Insightful)
Pretty unlikely. Remember, its partially *source* compatible. OS X PowerPC binaries compiled against Cocoa cannot possibly run under Linux/GNUstep on x86. Since most Mac software is distributed commercial in binary-only form its unlikely that any of it will be instantly available on linux, and even if it is, they are as likely to port it using something "standard" like Qt even if it means rewriting much of the program, than to try to get it to work with GNUStep in its present form.
And certainly software sold by Apple itself, like iTunes, is about as likely to be ported to linux as, say, Microsoft Office, GNUstep or no.
Screenshots, please. (Score:3, Insightful)
And you can get more users to try it out too, if they can see something before they download that 110MB of data. Even at that "small size", it's still a lot, for people like me who don't have access to high speed internet.
Re:The sad part is.... (Score:3, Insightful)
And besides, the customizability of the KDE/Gnome environments is somewhat restricted by very complex interdependencies.
Simplicity is key (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't forget there are a lot of intelligent people who enjoy tinkering with things (computers and OSes included) but can't afford to spend too much time...
If the developers also choose a well rounded set of applications, then we'll have an interesting alternative to packing a zillion apps (almost) noone will use and creating yet another distro that confuses users about the choices, rather than being itself an alternative choice.
By having something simple you can use and extend, you are also a lot more motivated to actually use it and stick with it, rather than observe at amazement and then go back to .
Perhaps, simplicity is itself a choice sorely missed all too often nowadays...
Re:If it's a fairly BSDish Linux.. (Score:4, Insightful)
People with this holier than thou attitude really need a reality check. Why does not having a TV make you a better person? I have a TV, but I don't waste every waking minute in front of it. Still, it does me good to be in on the pop culture of our times. Without a TV I wouldn't be as much a part of US society. But if you don't want a TV, I applaud that. Just don't go hyping how awesome you are for not having a TV.
Same thing goes for you. You make this implication that the second Linux became profitable and useable by the masses of computer geeks, it became not elitist. And so when BSD reaches this point, where it becomes massively accepted and useful for many things, will you then decide it too is not elite enough for you?
Is Microsoft Windows the greatest? No. Is Linux the greatest? No. Is MacOS the greatest? No. Is BSD the greatest? No. Every single one has something about them that someone doesn't like. Personally, I'm really learning to love linux, but it's taking time. Will I tell others how I think Linux is generally better for a lot of productivity and security things? Yes. Will I try cramming it down their throats how brain-dead and worthless everything about MS Windows is? No, not unless I feel like being a real ass.
BTW, good job with making this post a subtle enough troll not to get you modded down as such. Too bad people actually modded it up.
Re:Why Linux?? (Score:2, Insightful)
With FSF driving the bus, I don't see it making any forays into software which doesn't support the GPL.
I, personally, have grown weary of Linux distros. Redhat is chock full of bloat, Two attempts at debian have left me frustrated and angry. I read on the "You can roll your own" like LinuxFromScratch, but dont have that much time to invest.
When OpenBSD 3.0 came out, I installed it on a spare box just for giggles. I was shocked to find that it was EXACTLY what I expected from an OS. That box became my new cable modem router. I can't quantify it, but OpenBSD just FEELS right. If it did SMP, I'd have it on every box I own by now.
Mmmm...Objective-C! (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, Objective-C also has many fine attributes, and has never gained the popularity it deserves. Objective-C (gcc is Apple's Obj-C compiler also) is fully compiled and has great legacy compatibility with C, both desirable attributes when compared with Java. There are other tradeoffs between the languages, but Objective-C looks like a great Java alternative in certain circumstances. It also looks like a fun 'recreational language' for side projects.
I was considering one of the new iMacs anyhow, it's good to see that much code might port to an open source setting also! :-)
299,792,458 m/s...not just a good idea, its the law!
Not a new OS (Score:3, Insightful)
GNUStep isn't an OS, it's the API from NeXTSTEP.
It's supposedly really really cool to program in because Objective-C is a lot more dynamic in its design than C++. (Much less type checking = less recompilation, more rapid development, it's a lot more like working in Smalltalk or a scripting language like Ruby. So I hear from people who use Objective-C in my company.)
HOWEVER it ain't ready, GNUStep is still laying the foundations. When they're all laid, it should be possible to add a lot of very good apps very fast. (NeXT is most famous for having been something you can develop apps very well and fast in.)
This is an interesting start.
GNUStep apps should be relatively easy to port to Cocoa and vice versa, that's the extent of the connection.
All this yammering about how pretty the window decorations are is silly. It ain't about looking like candy, it's about being pleasant to use and working well.
All this stuff about "being the next BeOS" is silly too. This isn't about users... not yet. It's about developers. It isn't a new OS, it's a new programming environment and a Linux distro optimized for it.
Re:The sad part is.... (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want Gtk+ apps with a NextStep theme, then use Gtk+ apps with a NextStep theme, any current linux distro can give you this.
What's the point? (Score:2, Insightful)
WindowMaker has already been around for awhile and comes with it's own GNUstep like interface (or it is it's own GNUstep interface if you want to split hairs). If you don't like WindowMaker, then use AfterStep which again gives you the NeXT type interface (dock, clip, etc.). Either of these can be installed onto any Linux distro. You can install RedHat and get all the cool hardware detection with it and just don't install KDE/Gnome/etc. then grab the latest WindowMaker/AfterStep files and you have the same thing this is offering. So where's the magic?
Some of the features it's touting:
Uses the latest linux kernels and its latest features (ie: pure devfs, framebuffer)
Great, except according to some people here it has a lot of problems just installing. Besides, in a few weeks (or whenever the next update happens) the latest kernels will be out of date. You may as well just ftp your own kernels and compile them for your own system.
Graphical Boot-Up (no confusing Linux kernel messages)
Personally I like seeing the messages boot up so I know what sub-systems and modules are being loaded. If my sound module fails at least I know it.
Kept as simple as possible (no GNOME, no KDE, etc, just GNUstep)
Just install any linux distro without KDE/Gnome and slap on WindowMaker/AfterStep and you get the same thing right? So how is this a selling feature?
So we've already got this if you want it. Just go and grab whatever window manager suits your taste. If this is a move towards Mac OS X compatibility then great, but it seems like a very small step as there is a LOT of work ahead to even get something close to that.
Personally it just seems like a waste to bundle it with yet another copy of Linux. Separate it out (unless there's something special you're doing with the kernal) as a download so anyone can grab it in less than 10 minutes and let us decide which kernel to use for the base.
At the very least, toss up a few screenshots, make the download availalbe in a few formats and provide a little more information about what features this has or will have. What's the big picture and where is it leading?
liB
Re:The sad part is.... (Score:5, Insightful)
ACK!!'s feedback is actually important and valuable. The more people who adequately represent their own needs, the easier it is to create templates for profiling users and develop systems that fit those profiles. Yes, technically, with enough customization, 95% of distros can be made to fit 95% of the needs of 95% of the people, but relying too much on customization means that a lot of redundant work goes on (if over half the users are spending 2 hours making the same customization, wouldn't it make sense to make that customization available as a default?) and a lot of people who don't have the time to customize will go elsewhere (might not bother you, but personally I believe in network effects - the more people who use the platform I use, the more development will happen on that platform, and the more goodies I get.) Since open source development doesn't have focus groups and useability labs and market research, forums like this are frankly pretty good ways to present wishlists, complaints, and the like.
Re:GNUstep *is* more user friendly--by Fitts' Law (Score:2, Insightful)
Choose text position. Icons only, Text only, Text beside icons, Text underneath icons.
Configurable on a per toolbar, per application, and globally.
As the the large wharf / dock icons in GnuStep, in KDE, choose a large panel, large panel icons. To comply with fitts law, just push the mouse to the edge of the screen at the panel and it will still hit the button. No repositioning, and quick, ala Apple's menubar.
The K menu, by default, is in the corner for this reason - just push into the corner and click to activate.
So, you don't know KDE. Try again. Turn on the next widget theme, kwin theme / style, and feel at home. Get the 3rd party panel add on to dock your window maker applets, and to emulate the dock.
Have fun.
compatibility (Score:2, Insightful)
Arent all programs 'partialy source compatible' with an OS that has that particular compiller this could be great in terms of colaberation and future development but it also could be nothing mroe than empty hype.
Re:Why Linux?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Put up or shut up.
I'll wager good money ($1,000 sound good? How about $10,000?) that Apple will not be out of business within 5 years. We can define "out of business" as "having declared Chapter 7 Bankruptcy and in the process of selling off remaining assets."
If Apple is purchased by another company and still making Macs/Mac OS X/etc., that doesn't count as "out of business" in my book.
So, you willing to bet?
-jon
Re:The sad part is.... (Score:3, Insightful)