One Terabyte On a 12-inch^H^H^H^Hcm Disk 540
News for nerds writes: "At InterOpto'02 - international optoelectronics exhibition hold in Chiba, Japan - OPTWARE Co.Ltd. made up of ex-Sony engineers, demoed(in Japanese) 1-terabyte super-high speed optical disk system "T-VRD." It uses hologram and stores 1 terabyte data in a 12-cm-CD-size disc, with 100Mbps - 1Gbps transfer rate. Available in 2003 as 19-inch rackmount, 2005 for PC." Update: 07/16 18:33 GMT by T : Sorry, that's centimeters, not inches, which is of course even better ;)
12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:2)
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:4, Funny)
Please don't tell my girlfriend!
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:3, Funny)
Most blondes don't know the difference.
Re:Why did the blonde go to church? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:2, Interesting)
At the time, they were touting the amazing density of optical technology. I guess they've made a little more progress since then.
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:2, Informative)
very nice.
Actually (Score:2)
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:2)
Yes, it does, now that its been changed. It only said inch before, like the editor's comment says...
Re:12 cm or 12 inch? (Score:2)
I think I need a new sig:
Don't be an elitist asshole [penny-arcade.com]. You're just going to look like an idiot.
Great... (Score:2)
resell everything (Score:3, Insightful)
timothy must work for nasa (Score:3, Funny)
What on earth will we put on it? (Score:2)
Re:What on earth will we put on it? (Score:2)
Libraries of Congress, of course. Either that, or copies of the human genome.
"Pssst...kid. Wanna buy a genome?"
Re:What on earth will we put on it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Where I work, we routinely fill up our 100 GB hard drives, running hurricane simulations and extracting the knowledge from those simulations. A "high-quality" simulation in this field nowadays eats up 40-80 GB of hard drive space, at least. That makes dissemination of the data to other interested parties a little difficult if they don't have a high speed internet connection and plenty of space to put it on after the FTP session.
Having a high-density storage medium that rivals hard drives is a great thing since it allows us to backup this data (sorry, but when the model takes a week to run in the first place, I would like a nice backup copy of it all floating about) and also allows us to send the data via non-electronic means. Hopefully this one isn't a pipe dream. If it isn't, you can bet that we'll be in line when the first working model is produced.
-Jellisky
Holographic storage? (Score:5, Interesting)
From the past it is researched, applying the " hologram system ", the system which was developed. With hologram system of conventional type there was a problem in compatibility and the like of the existing media such as miniaturization and cost and DVD. With the technology which this time is announced, you say these weak points were overcome by using the same company individual " polarized light Cori near hologram technology " and so on.
Hologram technology until recently, using two object glasses, had the necessity to irradiate separate " reference beam " and " signal light ". You say with polarized light Cori near hologram technology these from one object glass the economical space, cost decrease is actualized by the fact that it makes lighting possible. In addition, we have assumed it can maintain also the compatibility of the DVD and the CD media.
I'm not sure if the translation is making it accurate or not, but it looks like this is indeed using holographic storage and not just holographic printing.
cm to in. (Score:5, Funny)
(cut to shot of rocket blasting off, lifting 5 feet off the ground, then falling back to earth in a huge fireball)
NASA Scientist: Oops.
Re:cm to in. (Score:5, Funny)
NASA Scientist: 12 cm, 12 inches, whats the difference?
NASA Scientist's Wife: Ahem.
Re:cm to in. (Score:2)
What, was it supposed to lift 12.7 feet off the ground before falling back to earth in a huge fireball?
back to caddies? (Score:5, Insightful)
i mean -- one little scratch will now render hundreds of megabytes unreadable...
makes no difference to me if in the end half the storage space is dedicated to data-redundancy.
i want those little data-cubes you keep seeing in Sci-Fi movies. those are neater than the disk format.
Re:back to caddies? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:back to caddies? (Score:2)
Who would've thought, the future of data storage technology was with us the whole time: The simple, humble bean! Well, I'll be on eTrade if you need me.
Re:back to caddies? (Score:2)
Re:back to caddies? (Score:2)
They'd be bulkier, but ultimately simpler to use/store.
Re:back to caddies? (Score:3, Funny)
ITS CM (Score:2)
bla bla bla InterOpto'02 bla bla bla 12cm CDbla bla bla
RTFA!
Re:ITS CM (Score:4, Funny)
bla bla bla InterOpto'02 bla bla bla 12cm CDbla bla bla
RTFA!
Well, I don't know kanji!!!! For all I know "cm" is the kanji characters for "inches"...
Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:2, Interesting)
If you had 1MB of video per minute, you could hold one million minutes of video. That comes out to 16666 hours of video. It would take you 694 days to watch every minute of that, or a little under 2 years!
Now, who has that much content? Hmm? Correct my math, if I messed up. I'm not feeling too good today...
Re:Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah except... (Score:2)
Re:Yeah except... (Score:2)
Which means that 1 TB gets you about 10 seconds of video.
Re:Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:2)
Or something.
Re:Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:2)
Re:Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:2)
Time to start downloading some more...
Re:Whats someone gonna do with all that? (Score:2)
Well, if I had that much storage space, to hell with MP3 - I'd store everything as 16/44.1 stereo WAV files. And, you're off by quite a bit on the video estimate. DVD-quality video averages closer to 30 MB/min. So you're really only going to get about 550 hours of video, and far less if you want HDTV-quality.
OK, how many LOC*s is that? (Score:2)
Re:OK, how many LOC*s is that? (Score:3, Interesting)
For added perspective, the Internet Archive [archive.org] lists a number of other comparisons [archive.org] to their over 100 Terabytes of web pages dating from 1996.
Finally, in 2000 the "How Much Information?" project [berkeley.edu] attempted to estimate the total amount of information produced in all major mediums: from books to TV to the Internet to photos to x-rays and more. Based on their data (from a few years ago), every American musical recording produced each year could fit on a couple of these new 1TB disks (compressed) and every new DVD could probably fit on about a dozen. The Internet is harder to estimate, due to hidden content (databases, dynamic pages) but they estimated the "surface" web to be 25-50 Terabytes and total "web-connected documents" to be as high as 7,500 Terabytes!
IBM Must be Seeing Red? (Score:2)
Why do you think they sold their HD business? (Score:3, Funny)
In related news. (Score:5, Funny)
Optware Spokesman:
"We were thinking it would take 10 years the technology to be needed, but bad jokes about our hardware's "12 inch vs. 12 cm" capabilities, beowulf of them, and how much prOn one could store on it completly overwhelmed previous storage technologies"
120 mm ! : go see the optware site guys... (Score:5, Informative)
And of course, it's 120 mm = 12cm != 12 inches ~= 36 cm...
Basically, they:
Media size does matter. (Score:2)
Re:Media size does matter. (Score:2)
Speak for yourself, bub. CD's have a really crappy form factor. They're too big to fit inside a pocket, need specially designed carrying cases, and have crappy latency characteristics. Give me a non-rotating piece of storage the size of a credit card. These would fit in standard-sized pockets, we already have specialized carrying cases for them (called wallets), and they wouldn't have the rotational latency issues. Now all we need is the density...
Re:Media size does matter. (Score:2)
What about business card [diskduper.com] sized? Do the same form factor with this optical technology as is already done with cd, and assuming the same 50:670 data capacity ratio you'll get 76GB of storage space on a business card sized disk. Would that take care of your needs? That'd be about 116 raw cd's, or 600 high quality encoded cd's.
This is a step in the WRONG direction (Score:2, Insightful)
at 100mbit/sec, we can say about 12.5 mbyte/sec transfer rates. That is really slow now-a-days for a hard drive. 1gbit/sec (125mbyte/sec) is decent, but with UDMA100/UDMA133 standard right now, this technology seems to be behind times in speed when it finally gets released for PCs a year or two from now.
Remember, the hard drive is probably the bottleneck in almost every PC and server, particularly with huge databases. I would really like to see hard drives get faster and faster instead of bigger and bigger.
Re:This is a step in the WRONG direction (Score:2, Interesting)
Rough Translation (Score:5, Informative)
From the past it is researched, applying the " hologram system ", the system which was developed. With hologram system of conventional type there was a problem in compatibility and the like of the existing media such as miniaturization and cost and DVD. With the technology which this time is announced, you say these weak points were overcome by using the same company individual " polarized light Cori near hologram technology " and so on.
Hologram technology until recently, using two object glasses, had the necessity to irradiate separate " reference beam " and " signal light ". You say with polarized light Cori near hologram technology these from one object glass the economical space, cost decrease is actualized by the fact that it makes lighting possible. In addition, we have assumed it can maintain also the compatibility of the DVD and the CD media.
Difference of data record method such as CD drive Device of record to tera- byte disk
Those where the reflecting horizon where structure of the tera- byte disk media puts the cubic measure hologram record material with the disk baseplate of the glass make, the pre- format is done is pasted in the one side. It is not the glass in the future, you call the schedule where the disk baseplate of the plastic make is used. In addition, at the beginning the media of the is offered, but you say relying tub Lu it will be able to offer also the media in the future.
At the time of data record, signal light and reference beam are irradiated vis-a-vis this reflecting horizon, reference beam and the information light which are reflected to interfere inside the cubic measure hologram material, the data is recorded to the interference fringes which occur.
When grasping the device which grasps the hologram which irradiates only reference beam, is recorded to the cubic measure record material.
With the former DVD and CD drive, using single laser light, it does reading and writing, but with hologram technology, the bundle of the light whose large number is thin is used. In addition, the data was recorded until recently level at the bit unit, but with hologram record, it is possible to record to three-dimensional cubic measure hologram layer as a page data.
Because of that, with the disk media which uses hologram, it is possible to write the data of 3 ten thousand bit inside hologram of diameter 500 mu m. While the respective hologram to be piled up, because it is existence possible, we have assumed it is suitable for large increasing capacity. In addition, only the 1bit data transfer could do with the pickup of former DVD/CD drive, at one time, but because with hologram system the data of 3 ten thousand bit can be read and written at one time, also data rate improves substantially, you say data transfer with the 100Mbps - the 1gbps becomes possible.
Appraisal device " T-VRD " of the tera- byte optical disk system was displayed in the InterOpt meeting place, demonstration was done. At the same company, at the beginning we have assumed, introduction in TV station and the Government agency is anticipated, we have assumed on end of 2003 offer of 19 inch rack-mounted type system, furthermore it miniaturizes drive itself in 2005, it develops in for the foam/home server and the PC market as a consumer product.
The drive part of T-VRD When drive was opened. As for the media being stored by the cartridge, it is The corresponding disk was displayed from each company
Actually hologram it was recorded the media As for this way unused media. The record aspect has like the mirror high reflectance
Yoshio Chairman and CEO Aoki Chief Executive Officer
At the announcement meeting place, Yoshio the Aoki of Chairman and the CEO Chief Executive Officer greets, " presently in communication industry, per second also the 1TB thing data has become transmission possible. This the movie of 2 hours is something which is made transfeable in 0.1 seconds. Is, but when it reaches the point where it can exchange the large capacity data instantaneously, even on the storage side which retains that data large capacity and high speed the media which had transfer speed becomes necessary ", necessity of the tera- byte optical disk system was expressed.
" With the former CD and DVD drive, NA value of the object glass was increased, precision of recording density was increased by the fact that wave length of the laser is reduced. Is, but with this method already the limit has been visible ", also you talked, the disk system which uses hologram emphasized that it is the system which system differs until recently completely.
Home page of optical wear
(As of July 16th, the information regarding this product is not published)
Http:
News blast from the future. (Score:5, Funny)
Software pirates in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Asia immediately began selling copies of NBC's entire 2006 TV lineup, Warcraft IV-10, Photoshop 2008, and MS Office Xtra-Ultra-Uber-Nextgen on the new disks for a street price of $5, all on one disk.
RIAA and MPAA lawyers assaulted Sony with lawsuits today, claiming that the disk assited in storage and dissemination of intellectual property and violating copyright control schemes.
Immediately after, Canadian and European lawyers under the control of movie and recording lobbyists added a hefty tax to the sale of each disk, with collected fees sent to movie and music companies.
Australians quickly installed $1 per/disc copy machines in Lucky Dragon stores across the continents.
Citizens of the USA tried to read reports about the new discs, but because a Microsoft lead consortium refused to provide digital certificates to news releases, Americans cannot view the files on their computers.
centimetres or inches? (Score:2)
Scarcely matters if it's in a 19 inch rackmount, does it? I mean the technology is neat but a 19inch rack is a 19inch rack - doesn't matter how small the contents are (unless they don't fit in a 19inch rack at all...)
So much data to lose (Score:2)
And titanium alloy jewel cases that aren't going to shatter and splinter when sent through the USPS or sat on by your kid/dog.
Hrmph (Score:2, Funny)
bash$ stty erase ^H
That should take care of the problem.
Who cares? (Score:2, Funny)
The size of a CD (Score:3, Funny)
"Free with a purchase of a new Dell!: Sony's all-in-one 40x/12x/32x/CDRW//20x/8x/4x/DVDRW//2x/1x/T-VRDRW.
All Your media are belong.. oh screw it
In the next chicktechno movie (Score:4, Funny)
Johnny Mnemonic could only hold 160 GB (Score:4, Interesting)
We Need More... Lots More (Score:2, Interesting)
Its remarkable to me how unimaginative this community is at times. Terabytes are nothing to use even with today's technology.
This is barely enough to start cracking the doors to the real future of computers. With this, you may be able to store a few seconds of fully immersive video. I'm talking the kind of stuff that gives you limit of human sight resolution for anything beyond arm's length no matter what direction you look in. Add this storage to flight simulator technology that notes your head position and dynamically reproduces the right resolutions across your field of vision using 210 degree goggles, and you've got an experience in the making.
Another technology that would soak it up in seconds would be life recording. I've got a fairly poor memory and generally forget completely almost anything beyond three years ago. I'd LOVE to be able to wear a device that records my every moment in 360 degrees with fully directional audio. But, really, the recording technologies, including storage, won't be the most difficult part of the development. The really tough part will be the technology to search the database. It will need to be able to interpret everything seen and heard in order to be able to replay what I'd like without my having to remember times and places. Furthermore, it would need to do so in near real time as the only time that it might have to "catch up" would be when I slept...actually, I'd probably won't much of that time recorded too. Expand that to recording not only my personal experience but anything occurring anywhere on any property that I own in full 3D realistic resolution and bringing things to my attention that I've told it too and the task is at least 30 years of technology away (2^^30 * current storage capacities + 2^^24 * current processing capacities). Add recording of other aspects of the environment like smell, temperature, RF, etc and you could soak up technology forever. People will want these things.
The day will come, probably within this century, when petabytes and petaips are to us what bits are today.
Re:point? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:point? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:point? (Score:5, Funny)
Its almost grammarically incorrect to say something like that without punctuating it by sticking your foot in your mouth in 3 years.
640k is more than enough for anyone... (Score:2, Redundant)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:point? (Score:5, Interesting)
Here is what I can see for future increases in storage:
Petabyte: Store your entire DVD collection, CD collection, MP3 collection, all of your digital photo's from a lifetime, books, documents, etc.
Exabyte (1 million Terabytes): This amount of storage will be useful if you want to record in hig-quality digital video all of yor life from your wearable computer that you take everywhere. You will be abel to access every moment of your life, every conversation and play it back at anytime. The type of memory would also come in handy for storing large, highly detailed Virtual Worlds of your own creation. This is exactly where I see 100GHz machines coming in handy - the ability to render realistic virtual worlds on the fly.
Re:point? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:point? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:point? (Score:2)
If they were talking about a petabyte, then you could keep all of the scientific satellite data being sent down (terabytes daily) for awhile on one disk. Even a petabyte isn't enough for some purposes.
Year 1981 (Score:2, Informative)
Check it out
Re:point? (Score:3, Interesting)
As rebuttals go, it's pretty weak. I'd love to hear from the original citer on when/where it was quoted from.
Re:point? (Score:2)
Re:point? (Score:2, Funny)
Salesman: "For only $150 more, you could get a 1.2GB hard drive instead of this 850MB."
Me: "What would I need all that space for?"
Trust me, Windows 2012 Supa Dupa edition will find a way to take up a 1TB disk during initial install.
Re:point? (Score:5, Insightful)
(I guess I've been trolled. Oh well.)
Re:point? (Score:2, Insightful)
No future sight there.
What was the quote from the CEO at IBM, something like,
"I believe worldwide there is a market for 25 computers." That was said in the 60's. And it did not sound ridiculous. As for the 50 inch monitor, for my desk NO, but damn would that be nice for a monitoring system on a wall. As for 10 GB RAM welcome to the minimum system specs for Windows (Insert random suffix here) in 10 years.
Computers get more powerful. We force them to do more and more and expect them to be able to do more and more.
Don't ever say technology has hit it's peak we will always advance.
Re:point? (Score:2)
Q: Who Needs 1 TB? A: Video (Score:2)
I've got a couple of TiVo's, one with 200 GB of IDE disk in it and I'm running out of space. It's a nicer quality archive format than VHS, but limited in quantity.
I can foresee cheap wireless video cameras being used around the house for security monitoring being recorded to disk. That kind of application will eat up disk space in a hurry.
Re:point? (Score:4, Interesting)
Keep in mind that a terabyte is only 1000 gigabyte. I have a digital video camera which I plan to connect to my future computer to work on video's. If you like to store huge movies on disk then this huge capacitity will get small very quickly indeed.
Greetings,
Re:point? (Score:5, Interesting)
Talk to the computer vision people. MPEG and JPEG compession work in part by throwing out a lot of information that the human vision system won't miss. Applying current machine vision algorithms to such data doesn't work at all well due to compression artifacts.
Consider the latest digitally-produced Star Wars episode. If that were stored in uncompressed form, it'd take about three terabytes. (Assuming 2k by 3k frames, 24 fps, and two hour running time.)
Nice troll, though
DVDs. Nuff sed. (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, by your line of thinking, a Commodore 64 suits everyone's needs: it has color, you can do programming, word processing, can get online, and even save your games on disks! Why would anyone need anything more?
You are oh so mistaken (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice to see you joining us on slashdot, Bill.
I still remember when you told us all we'd never need more than 640k of RAM. Still trying to live that one down, aren't you?
On a more serious note, until I can render my entire featurelength movie with full 3d animation effects in realtime I won't be satisfied.
Indeed, that is only equivelent to a 1x CD-RW or DVD-RW, so even real time won't be acceptable.
Which means, until I can render my entire featurlength movie in 1 second and ship it out to all my friends and relatives in another second, I won't be satisfied.
But wait! I want to do that featurelength movie in HDTV 1080p format. Actually, since most of my friends have 1200p capability, I'd like to be able to render in 1920x1200 30 fps, 48bit color in under a second.
Well, movie making was fun, but now I prefer fully immersive virtual reality, at resolutions sufficient that the human eye can't tell the images aren't real. While realtime was initially fast enough for this rendering (no matter how fast I turn my head!), I find I want to render my worlds much more quickly than that to support multiple presences, so I can meet friends in my virtual world. So, until I can render all 3-d objects down to the molecular level in my entire, vast virtual world, in under a second, I won't be satisfied.
But wait! I'd like to
1 Terabyte sounds like a lot now, but I suspect we will find it to be very limited a few short years after it comes out. Human creativity is an amazing thing, and tends to push the boundries of whatever technical limits are placed upon it. I see no sign of this changing anytime soon, or of human creativity having come close to reaching some ephemeral "limit."
We won't be using the same computers in 20 years that we are today. Well, maybe some of the less flexible of us will be, but our children certainly won't be, and those of us more willing to keep up with a changing world likely won't be either.
Unless, of course, Hollywood is given veto power over all new technologies, in which case our children will be using computers more akin to the old IBM PC/XT my parents used back in the 80's, rather than what we're using today, but that is a tangent for another day.
Re:You are oh so mistaken (Score:2)
If its in real time, it doesnt really matter how long the movie is does it?
You really want terabyte-level storage (Score:2)
This is especially true for the entertainment industry. People forget that a digital copy of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones used for DLP theatrical digital projectors need something like 300 gigabytes of storage capacity. What will be needed in the future when digital projectors go to higher resolutions and 96 fields per second display to improve picture quality? In that case, easy-to-transport terabyte-level storage becomes very necessary.
You are an idiot. (Score:2)
Please, go back to your 486 dumb-terminal and leave the rest of us alone.
- A.P.
Re:point? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:point? (Score:2, Funny)
Intel rules, woohoo...
Re:point? (Score:2)
Eh, what's the point of having that much storage space? Computer technology has pretty much advanced about as far as is necessary.
Brian Hayes recently published an article [americanscientist.org] asking a similar question. He include a graph showing the cost of disk space over time and discusses the impact of increasing storage space on media companies. I strongly recommend taking a look.
Re:point? (Score:2)
FYI, this article was mentioned in an earlier story [slashdot.org] on Slashdot. There isn't much point in duplicating that discussion here.
Re:point? (Score:3, Informative)
Heh, cute troll. But, doing some math, I'd like:
I'm sure I could think of more uses for a single large disk, but I'll stop my wish-list now. More likely than not, we'll have the capacity to do all of the above years before it'll happen, since putting most of those together will be nearly impossible, or at least prohibitively expensive.
Re:point? (Score:2)
Or has this already been done? You know there are things that are recognizable in even fairly coarse (5-10 meter resolution) satellite pictures.. the Fermi Particle Accelerator comes to mind, as does the Pentagon.
Re:point? (Score:2)
You realize that you're (roughly) quoting people in the late 1800s that surmized that there was no point to inventors - everything worthwhile had already been invented.
Good thing nobody listened to them. Good thing nobody will listen to you now.
Nobody needs a terabyte disk? Bullshit. I can fill a terabyte in no time flat with HDTV. If I wanted to manipulate the raw data stream instead of a compressed version then we're talking about hundreds of terabytes.
A 50" monitor? Guess all those people with big screen TVs are just off their rocker then. No, I don't need a 50" monitor on my desktop. But if I could paint my walls with a medium that could be used as a computer display that'd be great -- being able to display pictures, documents, notes, or whatever on a wall is a killer app. Hell, being able to change my wall color without having to put down drop cloth is a killer app.
10GB RAM? Whatever. If you don't think it'll become a necessary requirement inside of 20 years, then you haven't been watching the computer industry. If you have a terabyte of disk space, you're going to want at least 10 GB of RAM for caching and indexing. Datasets grow. Being able to cache and sort a few thousand high-resolution (as in >35mm quality) photographs from my latest vacation will easily consume that kind of memory space. Not to mention the video or audio streams.
10 GHz CPU? Uh... and you think that doing real time, photorealistic rendering for Quake X won't require something on that scale of power?
Future desktop PCs will continue to become more and more powerful because needs will continue to grow. Perhaps not at the same pace as we've seen in the past 20 years, but to think that the industry will just stagnate is so naive as to be laughable.
Re:point? (Score:2)
Re:Capacity or speed? (Score:2)
From the previous poster: Solid state storage I want for speed, sure optical disc's are great for capacity at the expense of speed.
From me: My network at work can't do a sustained 100Mbp. What the heck do you mean optical can't do speed?
Re:Capacity or speed? (Score:2)
Two words: seek time
Re:Capacity or speed? (Score:2, Funny)
IT'S CALLED PAPER.
Re:Just imagine a RAID-0 of these guys (Score:2)
Re:Does this mean DVD's with 120 movies (Score:2)
It would be a killer to the new dVHS as well.
Re:crappy sig (Score:2)
It wasn't NASA (Score:2, Interesting)
It was Lockheed Martin that was using Imperial units.
NASA however apparently failed to read Lockheed Martins' code.
Re:Well, all those development are great (Score:2)
why say Y2K+2 requiring 5 key presses, and 3 shift key presses, when it only required 4 keypresses total to type 2002?
I've seen this year written as 2K2 which is kinda cool, but adding in more stuff just takes more time to type. So why do it? So you look like a 1337 h4x0r?