Black Boxes to Track Driving Habits? 867
Another submitter sent in a related submission about the collision data recorders in many late-model cars - which serve a similar purpose as the black boxes described above, but generally only record the last five seconds before an accident.
geemon writes "With the recent stories of rental car companies using GPS to track how and where their patrons are using their vehicles, this information about autos from 1996 and newer having an airplane-like accident "black box" capability was a complete surprise. Tucked under the drivers seat of most GM vehicles, the "black box" can store a variety of info such as vehicle and engine speed, braking, and seat belt usage. Info from an accident reconstruction service that uses this data can be found here. Called "event data recorders", these devices were, "...Originally designed to improve air bag performance based on the severity of the collision, the event data recorder can tell traffic accident investigators about the car's speed; engine RPMs; how far the accelerator pedal was pressed; if the brakes were applied; whether the drivers seatbelt was buckled and what warning lights were on - all from five seconds before impact..." It seems that GM and perhaps Ford have been using this for some time. Here is one company that makes the Windows based retrieval hardware/software combo for $2500. Imagine the uses of this data that law enforcement, your insurance company, and lawyers may have after your next little mishap."
Not that new (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember seeing a "consumer report" on 20/20 (or a similar newsprogram) about this device being put in new cars without the knowledge of the buyers. It was also illegal to remove it.
Anyone have any better memory than I and can provide more detail?
What's the problem? (Score:4, Interesting)
Frankly I'd like to have one of these babies in my car. It would remove a lot of uncertainty around what caused an accident: ("As you can see Judge, I was indeed stopped and my brake lights were working when the idiot rear ended me")
Re:hmm.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It is their vehicle... (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree anyway.
I really have not seen a single post that validates objecting to having something like this in your car. In fact a lot of the arguments against it are really for it in my mind.
Someone said "It violates the 5th amendment- your own car can testify against you"
Ignoring how really wrong that statment is legally- the flipside is what I like about these systems. In the case of an accident we can have FACTS as opposed to conjecture.
Some have said this wont stop accidents or save lives. (I disagree but it doesn't matter.) That's not the point. The point is knowing what happened- so that blame is not put upon the wrong person.
What valid activity or freedom could be hindered by this? I would like to hear some rational scenarios where this kind of thing could limit your 'rights'.
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Math VS Machine (Score:1, Interesting)
My father was an accident reconstructionist. He could tell how fast you and the other involved party were going from your skids and impact damage. There are six formulas for doing this. I'll save you the math, but these black boxen are not going to let them know anything new. In fact math and physical evidence can tell far more about the accident then some silly little black box ever could.
To the misguided parents who want one for their kid, tell me. Do you think this will improve your relationship with your child? Every time you check it, it tells you child you don't trust them. Now when they want to drive crazy, they steal a car, or hop into another friends car who doesn't have one. Maybe they'll be smart and unplug the silly thing. Don't waste your money, nor your time on something that can further damage the relationship between you and your child further then teenage years already do.
This idea is a waste of money, and I wouldn't give my two cents for their future.
Nexion
Thank god the insurance companies didn't use these (Score:4, Interesting)
*This is a tale of dot com glutony*
I was working for a small startup with a good amount of capitol. I was averaging a trip a week down to our LA office to deal with all the windows problems. (Remote wasn't possible, the CTO thought that running HIZ software through a firewall/Router/Tunnel would make it run bad)
Anyways aside from the problem of having a lunatic for a CTO my main issue was making sure that if the LA office needed me that week that they arranged all travel.
Well sometimes things were forgotten, and one week they forgot to rent my car for me. I was in the burbank airport, at the budget rent a car counter...
"Mr. Toqer we're sorry but we have no reservations for you!"
"Awe fuck, they slipped upped again" I muttered to myself. "Ok then what do you have left??
"We have a 1998 Convertable Jaguar XK8!" Oooh my pulse quickened, I was going to be there 3 days, sportin that ride in LA would be tits! So I called my CEO to see if it would be ok.
"Yo, CEO, your office manager forgot to reserve my car AGAIN! All the other rental places are out of cars and all thats left is a Jaguar Xk8"
"How much?"
"$350@day"
"Do it! I want to see you here in 30 minutes!"
Man, what a rush. I had never, and I mean NEVER EVER driven a car that fast in my life. I hopped on the 405?? and headed towards Thousand Oaks. I put the pedal to the medal and I felt like I was the millenium falcon going into hyperdrive! It went from 0 to 110 in no time flat.
Well towards the end of my trip I thought i'd go see the sunset strip by myself. I wanted to see the viper room where river phonix died (favorite actor, stand by me, ect) I made it a point to have a beer at about 9 of the joints on the strip. Fully loaded with a buzz I hopped back on the 101 to thousand oaks.
I look back now, it's not that funny. I really could have hurt myself, or some innocent bystander. 25, young dumb and full of cum.
Well, not really an exciting end to this post, just that I somehow managed to make it back to my hotel without wrecking or getting pulled over. Next day I handed the keys back and swore I would never drive anything over a "econo class" again. I'm not sure I can responsibilly handle that much power.
PUNCH IT CHEWIE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAE
--toq
Mandatory for dangerous drivers (Score:2, Interesting)
Try this policy (Score:2, Interesting)
Country-wide traffic laws impose stringent penalties for certain violations, particularly driving under the influence of alcohol. Penalties may include hefty jail sentences and fines, and, for Muslims, lashings. Persons involved in an accident in which another party is injured automatically go to jail until the injured person is released from the hospital. Should a person die in a traffic accident, the driver of the other car is liable for payment of compensation for the death (known as "dhiyya"), usually the equivalent of 41,000 U.S. dollars. Even relatively minor accidents may result in lengthy proceedings, during which both drivers may be prohibited from leaving the country.
I believe this policy also pertains to a foreign passenger in a taxi. I was told that part of the logic behind this is that the accident would not have taken place if the foreigner was not in the country. Obviously I didn't rent a car while I was there, and I closed my eyes and prayed (to Allah, Jesus, RMS, Buddha, the Big Kahuna, Chucky Cheese, etc...) when I was in a taxi.
Already a plan to track all 24 million cars in UK (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:or if used properly (Score:4, Interesting)
According to the California Office of Traffic Safety, drivers aged 15-20 made up 6.3% of the population, but were involved in 12.5% of the injury and fatality collisions (http://www.ots.ca.gov/campaign/youthq/brief.asp)
Unlike some places, our insurance here varies only on driving record (licence goes up by $25 every bad thing you do, car never goes up) which is the way is should be.
Your mention of SK means, I presume, Saskatchewan, suggesting that Canada is your home. Canadian insurance laws seem quite different from American insurance laws. I'm anxious for next summer to come around so I reach the three-year point when the collision on my record -- my fault -- comes off. The settlement was for $10,000, and my rates got boosted by about $450 a year, meaning that they get $1350 for me costing them $10K, not to mention whatever other incidental costs are there. Of course, I've been paying my insurance company between $1200 and $2100 a year, depending on what I've been driving, whether I have a collision on my record, and my age group, so I guess it's fair. But I have no moving violations, and the two accidents have been relatively minor. I'm an odd exception to the rule.
My dad is even further off. He's been driving for 30 years, and has never had a moving violation or been in a single accident. He's come close, but never had one. Luck and skill. My middle brother, OTOH, is 25 and has four speeding tickets and three collisions, one of which resulted in the totaling of two relatively young cars cars and a six-month suspended license. I've seen his insurance bill, and it's not pretty. But it is simple statistics. Between the two extremes of my dad and his spotless record, and my brother, lies me. I see those, and I understand why the numbers on my insurance bill look as they do.
Canada has fewer people, generally a little more spread out than the United States, so the insurance laws and rates will be different. I know people who live in places where there's only a single paved road through town, and they pay less than half of what I do. They have lower chances of an accident. I drive the highways of Southern California, meaning I take risks whether it's my foot on the floor or not (usually not, but sometimes...). Part of living in the place I choose.
France wants even worse than that (Score:2, Interesting)
As you may know, the government has changed not long ago. The former minister of transports, Jean-Claude Gayssot, was just dumb as to highlight speed as the major cause of accidents. Like pretty much all ministers before him, he couldn't make the difference between exceeding the speed limit and excessive speed.
I dream-hoped for a change. Well, no. The current minister, Gilles De Robien, is even worse. In his project for increased road security (let me laugh), his proposed measures enclose a blackbox in every car. But not only to record accident data, mind you. No, these boxes may record speed permanently and will be controllable by the police in order to detect speed limit infringements. Worse, he wants spying tickets on highways (you have to pay for highways here) so that they can tell whether the guy was driving too fast by measuring the time between the ticket was taken and when this ticket is given back to the cashier at the exit of the highway.
Fine, then, but what about useful measures for a change? Improved driver training? No. More severe driving license exam? No. Working out dangerous spots on open roads? No. Putting radars on dangerous spots instead of straight lines? No.
I do hope the US equivalent of the minister of transports has a clue. Here, it's not the case. Help...
Re:or if used properly (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, but anecdotal evidence works both ways. I've been driving 13 years (with one speeding ticket in a rural speed trap). I have been in three accidents, all ruled the other party's fault.
One was a female senior citizen on her way to a garden club meeting who ran a red light because she couldn't be late for her social function.
One was a middle aged female who had taken her husband's car without permission and "he'll kill me if he finds out" -- rear-ended me at ~30mph while yielding to traffic at an interstate on-ramp.
One was a youngish (30s) female driving an SUV with four kids in the back -- rear-ended me at a red light going about 45 mph because she was looking at the four kids and ignoring the road.
So my experience has been totally contrary to yours. All of my accidents have been caused by mature female drivers not paying attention to the road. No teenagers in sight.
Re:not quite (Score:2, Interesting)
Just who do you think owns the car???
And even if somehow you saved up enough money to buy a car as a teen (Someone's allowance is too high....) you are *allowed* to drive at your parents descretion. Seesh, I hope you don't parent your kids the way the above post indicates you might. If you have kids, I've got to tell you, no one likes them. Oh and the teacher is not picking on them. As bad as they are at home around you, they behave the same way at school.... And don't get me started on the parents of those Columbine kids.... They had guns in plain site in their rooms! Hello! It's YOUR HOUSE! Don't you think you might want to know what goes on around there?