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Robots Go Spelunking 130

Posted by michael from the i,-robot dept.
anakog writes "Yahoo! News runs a story about robots being used by the military in Afghanistan to search caves. The article features a few slides with pictures and comments. This seems to be the first time robots are used as tools for combat, although the article does not say if they have encountered any resistance yet. There is no mention of the manufacturer of the robots, however, I am fairly certain that they are the PackBots manufactured by IRobot. I happened to visit Real World Interface (which later merged with IRobot) a couple of years ago and saw the PackBots' predecessors, which were called Urban Robots. The company had a contract with the Department of Defence. As the name implies, the military were envisioning to use the robots to scan buildings in urban areas back then."
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Robots Go Spelunking More

Robots Go Spelunking

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  • Packbots (Score:2, Redundant)

    by Ratface ( 21117 )
    ... let me see, clicking the link [robots.net] in my robots.net Slashdot sidebar confirms that, yes - they are indeed iRobot Packbots. ;-)

  • Other features (Score:2, Redundant)

    by rushiferu ( 595361 )
    I wonder how long until the army starts to attach other things besides cameras to these little bots. Chemical sensors, IR, guns, a few pounds of C4 and some roofing nails....
    • From the story:

      The four, $40,000 prototypes - Hermes, Professor, Thing and Fester - can hold up to 12 cameras, a grenade launcher and a 12-gauge shotgun. The robots operate on a sensor system and by wireless desktop control. They are fitted with a Global Positioning System, and can see themselves and each other on a map, ensuring more efficient searches. They run on 2, 6-pound rechargeable batteries that run one hour each.

      So they can already carry weapons.

    • If things can be fastened to it with bolts, welding, rope, or duct tape, it will carry weapons. It's a matter of what is needed and what can be done.
    • RTFA!

      The four, $40,000 prototypes -- Hermes, Professor, Thing and Fester -- can hold up to 12 cameras, a grenade launcher and a 12-gauge shotgun. The robots operate on a sensor system and by wireless desktop control. They are fitted with a Global Positioning System ( news - web sites), and can see themselves and each other on a map, ensuring more efficient searches. They run on 2, 6-pound rechargeable batteries that run one hour each.

      pretty fscking sweet if you ask me.
      • Hell yeah. There is something about imagining terrorists in a cave watching a robot that "just doesn't give a f**k" turn and point it's 12 gauge shotgun at you and fire. They may kill the robot, but we can just build more. The robots are fearless and i think it is sweet.

        That being said, as a caver myself, I could not imaging designing a robot to go into caves. I am sure Afganistan caves are different than the ones here (northwest US), but the caves here would be impossible for any track vehicle to operate in. They would drop of large cliffs, get stuck in water, would need to be able to scale very steep surfaces, and jump from rock to rock, etc.

        ALghough the Afgan caves sound like they are more like dug out bunkers. I am sure the US military knows WTF they are doing.
    • putting things like roofing nails on C4 wouldn't work too well, you'd need to "Tamp" the backside of the explosive so much to keep it from basically vaporizing the robot that it would hardly be able to move. and it would be an incredible waste of the 40K USD to do so, and also very impracticle since a single human could move much faster and quieter, place the explosive, then get himself somewhere safe for detonation.
  • I would like the see the terrorists vs the RoboCup [robocup.org] bots in fight. You can go in with info-red mounted cameras and hydraulic stabilized guns, but there would be nothing cooler than watching a ton of 5 foot robots slug it out with 'em UFC style.
  • I am actually considering electrolux's vacuum-cleaning robot. Does anyone have opinions on that one?

    What are other affordable and useful robots? I know only of the vacuum-cleaner and Husqwarna's lawn-mower.
  • a story about spelunking and no goatse post yet???

    • spe·lunk·er (Score:3, Informative)

      by stux ( 1934 )
      spelunker n.

      One who explores caves chiefly as a hobby; a caver.

      [From obsolete spelunk, cave, from Middle English, from Old French spelunque, from Latin spelunca, from Greek spelunx.]

      spelunking n.
  • Didnt we learn anything from 'terminator'?

    • "Didn't we learn anything from 'The Terminator'?"

      To make a movie instead of a slide show?
      To put bigger guns on the soldiers?
      To have a scene more interesting than bare ground with a couple of soldiers?


  • I am fairly certain that they are the PackBots manufactured by IRobot.

    Well I'm sure you are wrong. It is just Bender bending his way throug the caves

  • Can a Robot Commit a War Crime? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dr. JJJ ( 325391 ) on Thursday August 01, 2002 @07:27AM (#3991045)
    The robots in this article appear to be remotely controlled by a human operator but I can't help think that over time these robots and their predecessors will be given limited autonomy to execute tasks, and perhaps even kill. So given that future (which I admit is unlikely), what happens if a bot fails to obey the oxymoronicly-titled but somehow accepted Law of Land Warfare [army.mil]? If this violation came to trial, who would stand accused of the crime?
    • The persons responsible should be the folks who designed the robot. Of course this would mean that they would have to anticipate every possible outcome. For instance one of the rules is the following:

      Also, apart from the baths and showers with which the camps shall be furnished, prisoners of war shall be provided with sufficient water and soap for their personal toilet and for washing their personal laundry; the necessary installations, facilities and time shall be granted them for that purpose. (GPW, art. 29.)

      Therefore combat robots should come equipped with showers and soap on a rope in order to properly care for their prisoners.

      • "The persons responsible should be the folks who designed the robot."

        I think this is the most ignorant I heard today. What you say is akin to saying dell would be responsible for me smashing someone's head in with this laptop. Or to saying that Einstein was to be held responsible for the Hiroshima bombing.

        Designers and manufacturerers are responsible for their products, but only as far as it's functionality: if it functions well, within their specifications, and not outside of those, that's it. It is (or at least should be) the responsibility of the person or organisation that uses/deploys them, that is responsible for the results. In that respect it's similar to a smart bomb.
      • Wait a second.

        You want to hold programmers responsible for the work they do?

        Oh. Damn. Talk about a bad precident.

    • Of course, there would be the question if it was a malfunction, or if someone intentionally programmed/commanded it to do that very thing.

      Anyway, unless AI research makes much more progress, they'll certainly not put the robot on trial.

    • If this violation came to trial, who would stand accused of the crime?
      The commander of the unit.

      My guess is that any robot squad will be commanded by somebody who approves the targets before they attack them. He or she would be responsible. If the robot engaged an unapproved target, it would be written up to the 'fog of war' or equipment malfunction, much like it is now when one of our JDAMs takes out a hospital.

      I was reading an article about the unmanned aircraft that are used in Afghanistan and the military mentioned that it is very keen on keeping people in the loop when it comes to firing weapons. They do not want the situation you describe because they do not want to give up the control over their forces. Commanders already have a long standing tradition of accepting responsibility for the actions of their units.

  • Packbots Demo @ ALS Oakland (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 01, 2002 @07:30AM (#3991053)
    I was privledged to see the Packbot demo'd at ALS in Oakland last year. It crawled down the stage stairs, back up the stairs, then off the stage, a 3.5-4 foot drop! They had a video clip of it running through a small "water hazard". It was completly submerged, and all you saw was the wake. Rather impressive.

  • Perhaps not the first time... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pease1 ( 134187 ) <bbunge@ladyandtr ... m minus language> on Thursday August 01, 2002 @07:33AM (#3991060)
    This seems to be the first time robots are used as tools for combat...

    In WWII, the German army used a remote control tank that was filled with explosives and driven into a target. A photo is here [museumofworldwarii.com] (about half down the page).

    While not a true robot (I think these were control via wires), they were used in combat a good bit, including attacking landing craft during the D-Day invasion.

    Another German tank, the Borgward IV was a surviable remote control vehicle driven by radio and was used to lay mines, telephone wire and the likes.

  • Where are the "caving" elitists... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...to tell us "spelunking" is a newbie term?

  • Israeli sapper robot (Score:4, Interesting)

    by woolite ( 193398 ) on Thursday August 01, 2002 @07:54AM (#3991099) Homepage

    Israeli sapper robot [bbc.co.uk] in action.

  • Clearly, what is called for here is semi-autonomous robotic spiders.

    -a
  • ...can you integrate them with your .Mac subscription?
  • Finally we are catching up to one of the standard elements of sci-fi. E.g. one current example involving the military, on Stargate SG-1 [scifi.com] they usually send a robot probe through the gate first, to make sure the planet they are about to has an atmosphere and isn't full of enemies ready to shoot them as soon as they step through the gate. The Stargate robots are bigger though, since they are loaded with measuring devices. They also use small remote-controlled aircraft on Stargate, another thing the US military is starting to explore. (That's one reason I like Stargate -- it's very grounded in current real life.)

    Also, the guy in the third photo in the slides linked to in the article looks like he is wearing a Borg eyepiece. :-)

    • That's one reason I like Stargate -- it's very grounded in current real life.

      oh yeah.. Gua'oulds, travelling between dimensions, travelling faster than light, zappers that first stun, then kill and then disintegrates people.. all very current real life-ish. :)

  • So. Take a few of these handy dandy robots and merge them into the Robocode project from IBM ( Here [ibm.com] ) and you could _really_ have some fun!
  • That struck me as a little odd, and unrealistic.

  • Discovery.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Frank of Earth ( 126705 )
    ..channel had a good show on robots and how the military would use them. Hermes looks like the robot they were demoing on tv. The soldier just grabbed it by the handle and flung it over a wall and let it go searching. It seemed really durable.

    They also had these awesome little spy planes that fit inside a briefcase. To launch it, they had a little air piston that shot it into flight.
  • What happens when it is time to turn it off [reelclassics.com]

  • Range must be limited (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Hayzeus ( 596826 )
    If they rely on GPS for navigation, the robots must not be able to get that far into the cave. For that matter, I imagine the video feed and wireless communications are a major limiting factor on the depth to which the robot can explore -- I know the robo-mining people have been trying to solve this problem for some time now. Sure, the military probably has some nifty alien technology and all, but a cave is a cave, and RF is RF. I'd guess the controller still needs to be reasonably close for this to work well. My own teleoperated robot is nowhere near as kewl (as the kids say) , but if there are enough requests, I'd be happy to install a grenade launcher.

  • Same Robot Used to Search WTC site (Score:3, Informative)

    by Mad Man ( 166674 ) on Thursday August 01, 2002 @10:47AM (#3992063)
    I was at Acroname's Robo02 robotics expo in Boulder, Colorado, earlier this year.

    Lt. Colonel John Blitch (US Army, Ret.), of the Center for Robotic Assisted Search and Rescue [usf.edu], brought one of the Packbots that had been used in Afghanistan to the expo for his presentation on robotic search and rescue. (The robot still had Afghan dirt all over it).

    A similar model was used, and lost, during the search at the World Trade Center site. Pictures of it at the WTC can be seen at http://www.csee.usf.edu/robotics/crasar/photoGalle ry.html [usf.edu].
  • The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in spaceH^H^H^H^H^caves, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots. Thank you.
  • I wonder if they could make something akin to those funky bots in either Matrix or Minority Report. A bunch of big ugly sqidbots would be scary. A hundred or so tiny little metallic spiders would equally strike fear into enemy hearts Yes, unrealistic, but an amusing thought... --------- Beware, the anal probe!
  • what the heck happened to good old bravery?
  • Waitaminnit... a company named for an Isaac Asimov book? Seems like an infringement to me...

  • That thing has good specs (Score:3, Informative)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Thursday August 01, 2002 @12:20PM (#3992808) Homepage
    400G shock resistance, waterproof to 3 meters. And mechanically simple. I'm impressed.

    It's not just a teleoperator, either. It has sonars, GPS, and a magnetic compass. It ought to be able to retrace a route it's already taken.

  • The real-life man-sized six-legged tree-harvesting freak [plustech.fi] used for commercial foresting.

  • When a Talabot dies in battle, does it get to link into 72 virgin Cray's in it's afterlife?
  • Sorry, but I don't think these are _really_ robots. I mean, where is the autonomy? Do they do anything for themselves? According to the Yahoo article they are directed from a "wireless desktop control."

    IMHO these are merely remote controlled surveillance systems generously equipped with a grenade launcher and 12 gage shotgun.

    The buzz bombs [ednet.ns.ca] of WWII were more autonomous than these and thus more like a true robot. In the same vein, cruise missiles are more autonomous and thus much more "robotic" to me.

    Don't believe the hype...

    • Robots don't have to do things for themselves. According to dictionary.com:

      robot: 1. A mechanical device that sometimes resembles a human and is capable of performing a variety of often complex human tasks on command or by being programmed in advance.
    • So my remote control model car is actually a robot?

      How cool. Then I can tell people I've owned heaps of robots in the last 25 years.

      Seems to me the definition is somewhat lacking.
  • Yosemite Sam did this in a cartoon. He was "Yosemite Sam of Outer Space" and used various robots to go into Bugs Bunny's home to root him out.
  • Nobody read the article and noticed this? People keep posting that they're wondering how long it will take for the Army to put weapons on these.

    The typical geek response to a robot is "Oh...HOW CUTE!" and run up to it to find out how it works. I think that a flotilla of shotgun-toting robots would change that response pretty quickly.

    So they're already armed. How long before we see lines of robots armed with shotguns and tear gas herding protestors, or quashing riots? Good or bad, you decide.
    • How long before we see lines of robots armed with shotguns and tear gas herding protestors, or quashing riots? Good or bad, you decide.

      That all depends...

      If we have the robots on our side, good.

      If the robots are on the other side, bad... very bad!
    • Dumb question. How does a 12-gauge shotgun compare with other shotguns? I used google to look up some web-sites. I gather that 16 gauge and other gauges, have smaller diameter barrels. I also read that there are various kinds or ammunition. "00", "buckshot", and according to this gun enthusiast's web-site [alpharubicon.com], odd specialty ammunition, that fires bean-bags or incendiary charges. But I would welcome slashdot readers who know about this stuff to explain more fully what ammunition loads a shotgun weilding robot should use.

      I saw a show on TV about bomb-defusing robots, like the packbot, but a bit bigger. The show explained that they used to mount a shotgun, intended to blow apart the fuse mechanism of bombs. But these are replaced by these high powered squirt guns. They disrupt the fuse mechanism with a high-pressure, supersonic slug of water. This is less likely to set off the fuse than a shotgun blast. The squirt gun fired with a single boom, like a shotgun. It would be hard for a casual observer to distinguish it from a shotgun.

      Probably only lethal at extremely close range.

  • From iRobot's website (http://www.irobot.com/corp/p02.asp):
    "Our Corporate Mission statement is fourfold, but simple: Make money, have fun, build cool stuff, and change the world."

    I feel so much safer now.

  • Other advantages:

    • Reports back via a code not used by the Alliance.
    • Self-destructs when shot with a blaster, so the technology won't fall into rebel hands.
    • Smart-search AI allows visual identification of power generators.
    • Capable of operating under conditions of extreme cold.

    In short, the Imperial Probe Droid is an excellent tool for uncovering hidden rebel bases.

  • As part of the same program for which the packbots were developed, NASA's JPL has worked with iRobot on adding sensors and software to make more autonomous versions of these same platforms. My small company (Rossum Technologies) has been part of this effort for several years. Our 'urbie' version has stereo vision, omnidirectional cameras, laser range finder, infra-red cameras and more. Besides basic obstacle avoidance the robot is capable of autonomous stair climbing, visual-based navigation, leader-follower and others. Read more on JPL's web site [nasa.gov]
  • One of the LinuxBIOS developers mentioned that the PackBot uses LinuxBIOS (and I assume Linux)... I believe it's with a custom embedded Pentium-based motherboard...

    http://www.acl.lanl.gov/linuxbios/news/index.html# packbot2 [lanl.gov]

  • So if the robot finds an Al-Qaeda member, does it say "These are not the droids you are looking for"?
  • They showed one of these robots on the TV news. It seemed to be pretty noisy. My first thought was that the Al Qaeda bad guys would be able to hear the robot sneaking up from several hundred yards away.
  • > This seems to be the first time robots are used as tools for combat

    Not quite. Combat robots were first used in World War 2, on the Eastern front - the "Goliath" anti-tank weapon. The Germans used a remote control (wire guided) tank-buster robot which was, essentially, an armoured box with tracks and a bucketload of explosives. It was about 1.5m in length and about one half metre in height.

    The idea was that it be guided against Russian tanks then detonated. Although many hundreds were produced, it was not very successful, and the engineers could be found by soviet infantry who simply followed the cable trailing from the back of the machine.

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