A Maglev Train System for Florida? 298
Artifice_Eternity writes "For 20 years, citizens of Florida have been pushing for high-speed rail, as an alternative to the state's ever-growing, yet ever-crowded highways. A previous plan, the Florida Overland eXpress (FOX), was
killed by governor Jeb Bush in 1998. The voters responded by passing a referendum to require the building of a "bullet train," starting by November 2003.
The new
Florida High Speed Rail Authority is focusing first on the busy Miami-Orlando and Tampa-Orlando corridors, but eventually hopes to serve the whole state.
And they are seriously considering maglev technology! If the Florida HSR system did use maglev, it would be the largest one in the world. (Right now, maglev is in use on test tracks in
Germany and Japan, with a 30-kilometer system under construction in Shanghai.)
However, I like this humorous proposal best: it takes the idea of a "bullet train" literally, using the Jules Verne approach to propulsion."
I4 (Score:3, Insightful)
Assuming it's not too expensive to ride, I would see it getting alot of business from us college students in Orlando who have family along the routes... gas isn't exactly cheap for a 400 mile drive one way
Pushing? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Pushing? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nonsense. I remember signing the petition to have the issue put on the ballot. I remember voting on it. I remember it being passed.
Here in FL, with enough signatures, any issue (as long as it deals with a single point) can be put on the ballot. Any issue. This was one of them. It wasn't like big money bought the signatures and bought the voters.
Bleh. (Score:2, Insightful)
Simply put: Florida doesn't have the money. I'm not sure if the old rail route between Miami and Tampa is still operational (I took it a couple of times, years ago), but it was more than adequate. It wasn't very popular, though, IIRC.
The reason the referendum passed? It was vaguely worded and there was virtually no publicity given to it. I remember seeing it on the ballot, thinking "Hmm.. that would be pretty neat," and damn near punching it. And then I realized that it would be simply another bloated fund for our local politicos to exploit -- another holy grail for South Florida's thriving embezzlement industry. No thanks.
I hope Jeb lays the smack down again.
Re:Pushing? (Score:2, Insightful)
That is cheap.
The West-side Light Rail in Portland cost several billion dollars.
This is my two cents about Government funded work.
For every penny the government spends on a project like this, someone is getting work, a job, etc.
For the Light Rail in Portland, there are local survey teams, earthmovers, concreate people, electrical workers, artists, contractors all getting to work. The trains come from the Czech Republic, so we get to throw some money at them that should have gone there during the Marshall Plan.
It's not like welfare where the money goes into a blackhole.
And I think now that it's a good time for a state government like Florida's to spend some money on infrastructure, good lord they need it.
It's the perfect place for high speed trains. Throw up a couple new nuke plants for the power.
Re:Pushing? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is such a common myth. Where does the money come from to pay for this? From taxpayers. What would most taxpayers do with this money if they were allowed to keep it? Spend it -- "someone wouldbe getting work, a job, etc."
The effect of taxes is to merely change the kind of work that will be done. And this work is for the benefit of the five largest cities and not for the rest of the state.
Taxes don't create jobs, they merely change the kind of jobs that will be done.
Re:Pushing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Re:The maddening thing... (Score:3, Insightful)
> especially one like maglev -- have often blocked its implementation
That's because the Greens--bless their hearts--are fundamentally luddites and have a fundamental distrust of technology (unless it's somehow solar-power related). At first they ranted against the Transrapid on the grounds of its supposed environmental unfriendliness, particularly its noise and airblast when passing. After those arguments were proven unfounded with actual measurements and comparisons to current trains, they switched tactics to blast its economics. Unfortunately there they do have a point, though through no merit of their own.
> it could really compete with airliners
> [...]
> But the whole train-related mass transit infrastructure
> is missing in most American cities
Precisely, that's why it's probably a lot more worthwhile to view maglev in the US as a competitor of short- and medium-haul air routes rather than a light-rail alternative. Connect major city centers but also touch their airports, giving long-distance travelers access to rental car and other local established transportation infrastructure. As an alternative to one- and two-hour flights, maglev can be very attractive; while roughly doubling the raw transit times compared to aircraft, it can offer much better comfort (including work space) and the ability to get up and walk around.
Re:One more link.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Police officers are not part of the general populace when they've got their badge on, and are held to a different standard of accountability, not unlike the code that soliders have to follow.
Here in NY state, there was a spark a while back about a black man named Diallo who got shot down by officers. After a trial (that got moved upstate to right here in Albany), the officers were absolved of their charges--the jury found that they really did think that this was their man, and they really did think that he was pulling a gun.
'course, they all probably got written up internally for "excessive use of force," and each and every one of those cops has to live with the knowledge that they killed an innocent... I would be surprised if none of the officers took some psychiatric aid, and if they're all still working at NYPD.
(A google search, btw, lists over 54k results for "Cop goes to jail".)
For the most part, police officers who go to trial go quietly, and I suspect that many of them plead guilty--who the hell wants to life with "bad cop" floating around in the general conciousness attached to their face?
Its time to get rid of the police part of the police state-- let private security agencies represent us and defend us-- and make everyone equal under the law. (And no more agents of the state getting first crack at the evidence so they can tamper with it. Completely lacks objectivity that.)
That's wrong on so many levels...
Thanks for listening to my rant. while I was born in the south, I left after I realized just how corrupt the states are.. Florida, LA, Miss, Texas-- hell cops were drowning people in Brayes Bayou and shooting them, while drunk, on the freeway when I left Texas (and of course, no charges are filed.)
So, you're a witness to police getting drunk and murdering someone? Call the local DA right now--there's no statute of limiations on murder. Oh, that DA's corrupt? Then call them first, and then the FBI. Oh, you didn't see it firsthand? Then have your friend who did call.
Oh, wait--you mean you didn't actually see it, and you don't know anyone who did? Then it's heresay, gossip, and not enough to build any kind of case whatsoever. It probably didn't happen, or if it did it was resolved internally and no one bothered to tell you because it's none of your damn business.
Sorry about the counter-rant; knee-jerk antiestablishmentism irks me greatly, especially coming from people who don't get out and do anything about it.
Economics (Score:1, Insightful)
The comparison to Amtrak is a red herring. Amtrak serves just passenger with highpriced rail. It deserves to die. What is being talked about here is building a high speed rail throughout Florida. It will connect a number of cities that already send a lot of traffic between them. For those of you compaining about the traffic generated by trourist, this will get them off the roads so the roads will be easier to drive.
If you look closely at the current rail, it is used heavily to carry frieght and it is profitable. Likewise, the airlines, trucks, and buses do the same. Airlines actually carry passenger only becuase that was the way it was started. They actually lose a bit of money on them. It is the cargo that makes it profitable. The passengers allow for large number of aircrafts to be flown daily.
That is why these trains need to be
1) >100 MPH, preferable > 200 MPH - otherwise, Trucks and plain rail can compete easily.
2) the rail must be carring cargo (light to medium - not heavy) or it will lose money. Idealy, there should be an easy and cheap way of loading the semi-trailers on a covered flatbed.
3) it needs to be eleveted so that it can run at full speed without worries about other traffic or the weather.
4) it should not be used as a local commuter, but long distance commuters. These cost money to build out and using them for low-speed commuters is a waste of money. In addition, if driving is cheaper and easier, then everybody will drive. Even if driving more expensive, it may still be easier to drive. It will be cost and time that will drive ppl to use these.
5) if these are to succeed as commuters, then better local access will have to be built or business will have to be close to the train stations (think of airports). To be honest, it most likely will happen.
fa! (Score:1, Insightful)