DVD Region Encoding on Verge of Collapse? 597
Spudley writes "It seems like the infamous Region Encoding system used by DVD manufacturers to prevent us buying disks from overseas is about to collapse - due to widespread flaunting of the system. This article on the BBC doesn't go into much technical detail, but does include an interview with a company that manufactures DVD players ("You can find codes for more or less all brands of DVD player including ours") and some speculation on the future." It always seemed like an idea destined to fail.
Re:why? (Score:3, Interesting)
to mollify countries like China who would like to
prevent people from seeing a lot of films. Censorship.
I'm not sure its an idea that was destined to fail,
but I'd sure be glad if it did.
Macrovision (Score:2, Interesting)
Get a better TV you say??? I'd love too, but I am still working my way through college. Wanna donate a k-rad HDTV??? My email is at the top...
Re:It was a bad idea to begin with... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:why? (Score:2, Interesting)
Would be nice for Europe, but....... (Score:2, Interesting)
Industry's 2 "real" reasons for region coding (Score:5, Interesting)
In reality, 2 reasons are cited in defense of region coding:
* fees for extras (commentaries, FOX tv "making-of" specials) are often negotiated per region. It would cost the studios some effort and $ to get permission for all of the pieces in every market, so they make a European version without all that stuff [1]
* Censorship. Most European countries have their own version on the MPAA rating scheme. What's OK in the UK might not be in France, and vice versa. So there end up being a dozen different little cuts that have to be made to get the rating [2]
My personal feeling is it exists to maintain the old price differentials. DVDs are more expensive outside of the UK. Most of the studios have a European distributor who fiddles with the artwork, replaces the [R] rating with a (18) logo etc. If you could just use the region 1 disk, all of the "value" these people add wouldn't be needed anymore. The middleman would have to adapt - and we know that unfortunately people often try to use a technical fix to prop up their existing revenue model.
For a reverse example, the BBC usually region codes its TV shows. This is, I've heard, because it has a US distributor (Warner Home Video) who is supposed to get first refusal for all US releases - and they would feel threatened if people could just import what they wanted to watch when its released in the UK. So they mandate region coding. Not sure what would be in it for the BBC otherwise - its certainly a Hollywood studio thing.
[1] the smart reader will have figured out you can do this whether you region code the disk or not.
[2] once again the smart reader will be wondering how the hell this sort of granstanding by a few un-elected arbiters of taste is supposed to be beneficial in any way.
Re:OMG!! (Score:3, Interesting)
The manufacturers give a damn, because they get more cash if they can time the releases with suitable promotional visits from the film's stars, etc. If the DVD is released into a global market, they can't stagger releases to allow them to concentrate on one market at a time. After all, there's only one Tom Cruise, and he can't be publicising his latest film in the USA, Europe and the Far East all at the same time. I personally don't think that maximizing an already huge amount of profit is sufficient reason for them to stomp all over my rights as a consumer, but that's their reasoning behind it.
Re:why? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Another is the cost of making prints. Making and distributing prints of a movie is not a cheap process, and if you'd have to make separate prints for all the movie theathers - including small theaters that would only show the movie a couple of times, would be cost prohibitive. So they get around it by staggering the release and redistributing prints as and when the movie is taken off somewhere.
The latter may dramatically change with fully digital movies, when there's suddenly a lot of alternatives to cutting cost in the distribution...
Control (Score:4, Interesting)
Region coding however, is not to prevent someone from using the product in an illegal manner, but to prevent someone from using a product in a legal, and more importantly PREFERED manner.
People in other regions would prefer to purchase a DVD at a cheaper rate, and they could, but the cost has been artificially set such that it can't compete with other regions. Movies show later in countries outside of the US and the industry doesn't want to lose money on the theatre sales if the movie is already available on DVD.
But unlike the descrambling issue, they can't scream bloody murder about piracy. Anyone and everyone that attempts to bypass region coding bought the movie. And if one DVD player comes out that is multiregion, once the price on it comes in line with other players, and it will, those other players will be unable to compete, especially in markets where the desire for a multi-region player is high. The other manufacturers WILL go multi-region as well, or they won't be able to compete. The DVD consortium won't like it, but they'll have to find a battlecry other than piracy to rally people to their cause.
Re:Apex (Score:4, Interesting)
The economics of region encoding (Score:5, Interesting)
to delay releases between different countries,
but to maximise income. Movies (and many other
kinds of intellectual property) sell at different
prices in different countries, due to differences
in purchasing power.
A particular movie might make the most money
when sold at $20 in the USA, but in Australia
$10 might be the best price point. However,
without region encoding there would be nothing
to stop someone in the USA importing and
re-selling movies from Australia. The end
result would be that prices would be roughly
the same in all countries.
So if you live in a rich country, region
encoding is a bad thing. But for citizens of
poorer countries, it means that they are
getting DVDs at cheaper prices than would
prevail under total 'free trade'.
So maybe the breakdown of region encoding
isn't as good for consumers as you might
first think
On Verge of Collapse? I don't think so. (Score:5, Interesting)
I can still legally import RC1 DVDs from the US as a private person here in Switzerland, but this takes time and is rather expensive because of overseas shipping and customs expenses. Stores such as MediaMarkt used to have a good assortment of RC1 DVDs at reasonable prices, but this is now illegal. Since the primary reason to switch to DVD for me was the possibility to see a movie in English with English subtitles, I have practically stopped buying DVDs locally (the RC2 versions are often missing features from the US releases, and the English language audio track has permanent German subtitles).
Bottom line: Thanks to the industry's ridiculous policies, the money they get from me is down to about 1/3 of what it used to be. Maybe I'm the only one, but if not, they'll sure find a way to blame the slump in sales to "piracy" instead of acknowledging that they're shooting themselves in the foot.
And, by the way: How is this compatible with the "free trade" idea so cherished by many politicians today? Does "free trade" really mean "free trade as long as we can profit from it"?
Re:why? (Score:3, Interesting)
I've seen many films available for DVD release in America that are only recent cinema releases here.
Re:Why are the hacking codes there? (Score:4, Interesting)
This kind of thing isn't uncommon; the early portable MiniDesc recorders from Sony could have their 'one-generation-only' copy protection turned off by entering a code on the front panel buttons.
I don't think this is illegal even in the USA. In the UK and probably Europe it's directly plain; you can get multi-region DVD players in a supermarket (because they are cheap units from Asia which were region free in the first place), and there are commercial firms devoted to chipping players, which have gotten to seriously sophisticated levels now (change between regionless, auto adjusted locking, or locked to any region you choose; no macrovision; user prohibition override (ie, you can skip opening ads or studio screens); chip placed on a plug-in daughterboard so if the player breaks, you just pull the daughterboard then send it to Pioneer or whoever and there's no problem) and there's nothing illegal in it.
Great for students (Score:2, Interesting)
Surely defeating regional coding is illegal (Score:1, Interesting)
Volksempfänger of the 90's (Score:4, Interesting)
These where radios that were only able to receive German radio-stations. No shortwave, no BBC nothing else.
Granted, this was for obvious political reasons (and there were cinema-"commercials" educating the people not to listen to foreign radio-stations), but the possibility is there, still today.
When will they limit the distribution of books ?
When will a German book-shop be raided because he sells a US-bestseller not yet translated into German ?
Think this is "impossible" ? Then think of Harry Potter and all the craze it created.
Re:why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Likewise, the UK version of Disney's Lilo & Stitch has Lilo climbing into a cabinet with a pizza box lid for a door, while in the US version she climbs into a clothes drier. The UK ratings board had issues with that...
Get a *good* Multi-Region player cheap! (Sampo!) (Score:3, Interesting)
I've used Apex players and frankly, they are trash. Spend a bit more and get an easily hacked player that has a lot more features and is a *lot* better built... a Sampo!
All the info you need is at Area 450 [area450.com]
There is one particularly cool player they seem to like there that has a CF slot in it - and you can swap out that slot for a IDE hard drive if you'd like (to play back MPEGs, MP3s or JPEGS!) I didn't need that so I got the DVE661 for all of $160 pre-moded! (Gene Callahan rules! - see the pricing page on Area 450s site, he premod's players and sends them to you quite cheap!)
There are ways around modded DVD players (Score:2, Interesting)
I am supposed to be region x
Try a region other than x
If it works, crash/display screen other than movie
Simple and effective. It didn't make it very far, so I guess there were compatibility issues. but if the system collapses, look for this, or worse schemes to resurface. Just because it makes you buy a new player every month to keep up isn't the studio's problem now is it? *You* are the 'thief' here.
-Charlie
As a reply to you (and all other fellow Europeans) (Score:3, Interesting)
www.play.com free shipping in all European countries, and an absolutely fantastic selection of both R1 and R2 titles. And what's more important, since they are in Europe (Jersey Islands), you avoid the customs.
Then there is dvdboxoffice.com which also has free shipping, this one WORLDWIDE, but I suspect that larger shipments (4 or more DVDs in a package) might attract the custom's attention. Expecially since DVDboxoffice.com are based in Canada. I use them if play.com doesn't have the title I am looking for.
These two sites have been tried multiple times, never had one single complaint (and I have bought in excess of 200 titles).
The worst thing about region hacking? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's that because RC1 discs come out first, and are cheap, and have the most features, then they get bought by people outside RC1.
Why is that bad?
Because it artificially inflates the RC1 sales figures, which makes RC1 look even more important to the distributors, which makes them focus on it and keep pumping the cheap, early, heavily featured discs into it, while screaming that they have to protect markets ("won't somebody think of the artists
Don't get me wrong, my UK based DVD player is pretty much set on region 1 (rather than 0, because of RCE) and most of my DVD collection is RC1, so I'm contributing to this. I'm just aware of it, and I hate that I'm helping to make it worse for everyone in future. :(
Re:why? (Score:2, Interesting)
I must, unfortunately, agree with the publishers that calling it "Sorcerer's Stone" would probably be better for an American audience. I had never managed to run into the term "philosopher's stone" before hearing the original title. If the book was not the first in the series, it probably would have been left untouched. But since it was the first in the series, people wouldn't immediately associate "Harry Potter" and "wizard." So by changing it to Sorcerer's Stone they ensured that people would know that it was about magic.
Since, obviously, us Yanks and our image-driven culture are definately going to notice the title first and ignore the cover art consisting of a boy and his various magic artifacts. Whatever.
UK DVD consumers are shafted compared to US (Score:2, Interesting)
Luckily, thanks to the Internet and most DVD player manufacturers, savvy UK customers can:
One thing that's interesting is that UK stores such as HMV, W.H Smith, Virgin etc. do not stock Region 1 disks in their UK outlets. No doubt it's because they would be released earlier, cost less, have better content. etc. etc.
BTW, I've never been charged VAT or import duty on any Region 1 DVDs I've bought online and had shipped to the UK - heck, I've just pre-ordered Monsters Inc. 2-disc set from Canada via DVD Soon [dvdsoon.com] at a silly price of something around 11 pounds (including postage) - any bets that will be retailing at 20-22 pounds in UK stores ?
Re:Not just release scheduling (Score:2, Interesting)
He is absolutely correct! Have any of you seen the prices on Japanese DVD's? The prices are unbelievable. From $40-$80 for many films! While the Region 3 (Japan is region 2) versions released for Hong Kong and Korea can be bought for usually under $20 American. This was also the reason that the orginal Criterion DVD of THE SEVEN SAMURAI was pulled, because it had removable subtitles and was sugnificantly less expensive than the Japanese release. So it was pulled and given unremovable subtitles so it would be less enticing to those in Japan with all region players.
Re:why? (Score:2, Interesting)
It worked rigth out the box (no hidden menu nor remote control code), at least for region 1 and region 4 DVD's, I don't have DVD's from other regions to test it.(I live in Mexico)
Re:Not just release scheduling (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:why? (Score:3, Interesting)
OfficialThink goes: When globalisation lets you sack people paid a living wage and replace them with people working in slave labour conditions in a Vietnamese prison, it's good! When it lets your customers buy you product for its real cost, it's illegal!
Re:why? (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyway, sure it's obscure, but there's no reason to change stuff like "Philosopher's Stone," especially if it has SOME basis in old legends. Maybe people would learn something! I like learning things...
-If