Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Technology

The Coming Air Age 319

Lovejoy writes "Sixty years ago in The Atlantic Monthly, Igor Sikorsky wrote The Coming Air Age. "Any of us who are alive ten years after this Second World War is won will see and use hundreds of short-run helicopter bus services." He goes on to write about personal helicopters which fit in large garages and that helicopters that are easier to drive than cars, etc.. So, will personal flight ever be viable? Do wildly wrong predictions like this give futurists pause? I think they should."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

The Coming Air Age

Comments Filter:
  • Futurists (Score:3, Interesting)

    by entrippy ( 14141 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @08:16PM (#4434918)
    When a futurist makes an incorrect guess as to what the future holds, it doesn't invalidate the whole system.

    Of course, what we're talking about is a system of making educated guesses. Emphasis on the "guess" part of the equation. Anyone who's actually putting money on any prediction beyond 5 years being accurate is bound to get a quick kick up the jacksie, in any field.

    I defy you to find a consistantly successful futurist - for the most part, they just make a *lot* of guesses and then focus on the ones that are right.

    For the most part, I suspect a science fiction novel would provide you with as accurate a view of the future as most futurists.

    So, should this incorrect prediction cause us to look more closely at the predictions of futurists? No - we should have been looking closely and skeptically already.
  • Bad Predictions (Score:2, Interesting)

    by recordalator ( 263910 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @08:19PM (#4434935)
    Do wildly wrong predictions like this give futurists pause? I think they should.

    There's a lot to be learned from Bad Predictions [elsewherepress.com] of the past. You can often tell a lot more about people from what they get wrong than what they get right.
  • by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @08:23PM (#4434954) Homepage
    > This generation is probably the most aware of how
    > wrong predictions have been, because of the speed
    > of a computer revolution and the (relative) slow
    > pace of the rest of physics and chemistry.

    I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. Many of these predictions COULD have come true, if it weren't for the incredible growth of regulations and other legal obstructions. Autogyros are very simple devices which require only a bit of practice to run, and would be pretty darn cheap if mass-produced. So why aren't they common? Because you need quite a bit in the way of licensing to be allowed to operate one.
  • Re:Ground is better (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @08:37PM (#4435015) Journal
    Quote: Cars go quite fast enough, and while traffic is really bad the fact remains that after a small collision nobody falls to their deaths.

    I don't know about you, but there have been many times where I've gone someplace by car spending over two hours on the road, knowing that a two-man ultralight or autogyro could have gotten me there in about 30 minutes. An ultralight aircraft (basically a glider with a lawnmower engine on it) with a 350 pound capacity will hold me, my equipment, and a small foldable bicycle to take me the rest of the way from wherever I land. (All you need is a hundred feet or so of open grass or roadway, too. Public parks and parking lots make a suitable landing strip).

    After landing, the craft folds up and can be "driven" over land using the propeller, making it easy to stash it in a regular parking spot or garage.

    Granted, it's not something I'd use on my regular commute, but something like that could come in handy, and I'm not the only person who could find a use for it.

    So the issue of use is not a problem, it's safety. Most people can't even drive as it is. But ultralights are actually safer than cars because of mass and speed issues. Low altitude power-deployed parachutes allow for safe landings even in a major collision. If you lose power, you glide back down (quickly, but controllably). All you need is proper training and licensing programs to (hopefully) keep the really incapable people out of the skys.

    As for mass-transit air, that's actually pretty popular, if a little expensive and awkward due to scheduling. But if you're going from New York City to D.C. in a hurry, you either take a shuttle turboprop out of LaGuardia.

    Besides, once private aircraft become even remotely popular, the roads will probably clear up a bit. Things balance out. Don't write it off so quickly.
    =Smidge=
  • Re:Futurists (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bhsx ( 458600 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @08:51PM (#4435080)
    Well, Moller [moller.com] has an interesting approach. Remove those axis decisions from the driver/pilot. Make a computer-based flight system that holds the "skycar" perfectly still. No yaw. Then you simply have up and down, left and right, and forward and back. Not too much more to learn. Add in 8-way redundant rotary engines, a GPS, and about 5 years of REAL testing and I think we may see a winner here. All of us, if they ever hit that "cheap as an Escort" goal of theirs.
  • by trotski ( 592530 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @09:06PM (#4435133)
    Well, a limited number of places have something like that. For example, where I live (Victoria, BC) theres a helicopter service between here, Vancouver and Seattle, runs every hour. The use little, 12 person choppers.

    This is however a very special case because it takes 3 hours to get from Victoria to Vancouver by land/water even though they're only 35 kilometres apart.

    Most cities that are faily close together such as say Washington and Baltimore it just makes more sense to take a bus or a train, since it's far cheeper and there is no significant time advantage. (30 min by train as opposed to 10 min by helicopter). It just isn't worth it. Until the price of gas goes down (which it probably won't) or we find alternative fuel sources, there will never by any significant helicopter commuter services. Sig? Quel est sig?
  • by Rik van Riel ( 4968 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @09:16PM (#4435161) Homepage
    Flight (still) has too much takeoff and landing overhead. Even if it was faster, people would go with the more convenient transport anyway.

    Btw,futurists often seem to forget about people. Even if there were machines that would cook for me, why would I want it? After a stressful day of looking at source code and trying to fix bugs I like to go to the kitchen, grab a beer and start cooking. I'm not going to pay to let some machine take away my hobby!
  • Re:fuel issues (Score:2, Interesting)

    by AxelTorvalds ( 544851 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @09:19PM (#4435177)
    Energy is the exact problem. That's the one thing that holds a large chunk of the 20th century "future ideas" back. There are no problems making really small and powerful computers, other than energy, suppliying it and getting rid of it.

    No reason we couldn't have personal planes, accept energy.

    If we create room temperature super conductors and cold fusion in a bottle then it all might happen when we've got energy to just piss away but until then I wouldn't hold my breath.

  • "Futurists", hah! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by hyacinthus ( 225989 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @09:22PM (#4435192)
    I am reminded of one of David Brin's essays in which he bashes George Lucas and Star Wars. (Let it be said that I've bashed Lucas and Star Wars myself a few times.) At one point Brin delivers himself of the self-serving observation that while Lucas and others like him are obsessed with the past, Brin himself looks to the future.

    Yes, indeedy, where would we be if it weren't for forward-thinkers like Dave Brin? Just about the same place, I guess. Science fiction writers' track record for predicting the future isn't really any better than that of your average "Weekly World News" fortune-teller, except that the fortune-tellers tend to risk their predictive powers on such quotidian affairs as whether Brad Pitt will stay married to whoever that ditz is from "Friends", while SF writers confine themselves to lofty predictions about the fate of human society and technology. Now and again, one of the sci-fi boys will accidentally get something right, or sort of close (thus has Asimov been credited with "predicting" pocket calculators), as opposed to all those other writers who "predicted" that we'd still be using slide rules),.

    As I see science fiction writers and futurists, we could have done without the whole clan of them and it wouldn't have made a scrap of difference. But one can say the same thing about any entertainment--I don't propose that entertainment _per se_ is useless, only that SF is just that, entertainment.

    hyacinthus.
  • by Doogman ( 30146 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @09:22PM (#4435193)
    Ok, you have a choice: a dead stick landing with a Cessna 172 or a helicopter at equal altitude. Which would you choose?

    I would choose the Cessna 100% of the time. Sure, you can autorotate a heli down, but if you don't have _plenty_ of airspeed/altitude when you do it, good luck and things happen fast. At least with a regular plane, you actually have a few minutes to ponder where to land.

    Not to mention if the rotor "departs the aircraft." A prop you can live without, but not a rotor.

    A pilot told me once, "Practicing a autorotation is alot like practicing dying."
  • An experiment... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Scratch-O-Matic ( 245992 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @09:39PM (#4435262)
    1. Take the idiot who cut you off this morning with no turn signal and no glance in the mirror while pulling curlers out of her hair and talking on her cell phone.

    2. Drag her from her car like you wanted to anyway.

    3. Put her in a helicopter with a failed engine and see how well she does autorotating.

    As I pilot, I think that personal flight will occur someday, but only after these two prerequisites are achieved:

    1. Antigravity, or some propulsion system that is so simple and efficient that falling out of the sky is not going to happen no matter how inattentive the pilot, and
    2. An automatic navigation system that will keep all the vehicles in well-defined "lanes" just as they are now.

    Needless to say, I think we have a ways to go yet.
  • by Feanturi ( 99866 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @09:40PM (#4435268)
    I for one would be petrified to live in a city if everyone was flying. The average driver has enough trouble paying attention on the ground. And we may also assume that many of them barely squeaked by in their driver's exam. I shudder to think of personal flight units sailing all over the place, just waiting for the day I wake up to some asshole talking on his cellphone, crashing through my window. I don't believe that it is possible for this to be made properly safe. I will never trust computer navigation systems either, they're idiots too.

    Ginger scares the shit out of me as well. I'd love to pilot one, sure, but I don't need idiots whipping all over the place on these things. In all the various vehicles I've driven, I've never had an accident, for I always drive with the assumption that everyone else on the road is a complete idiot. Ie: Don't trust turn signals, speed changes, etc, without other cues to determine what the hell is really going on in that tiny brain behind the wheel. It seems to have worked so far.
  • Re:An experiment... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @10:09PM (#4435360) Journal
    Antigravity, or some propulsion system that is so simple and efficient that falling out of the sky is not going to happen no matter how inattentive the pilot....

    That is a real bummer about anti-gravity. All the other "fundimental forces" have a negative version of them (plus, minus), EXCEPT gravity. If it had a negative like magnetism, then we could simply strap on a backpack with anti-gravity particles and a small propeller and float up onto work.

    The fact that gravity is the only force without a (known) negative version puzzles many physics researches. Gravity stumps them in general.

    Then again, we don't have to commute to work in most cases if most people, especially managers would just get used to the concept of telecommuting and rented satellite offices.
  • by Ruger ( 237212 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @10:14PM (#4435375) Homepage
    ...never piloted an aircraft. The glide characteristics of most airplanes do not allow for "miles" of unpowered flight. A Cessna has a glide ratio of about 9:1 @ 90 KIAS. That means you can go forward 9 feet for every foot you drop. 1,000 feet up equals 9,000 feet forward. Hardly miles! Also, without power your control surfaces do not work as well and a stall is a fairly typical result...unless you've spent a lot of time training for engine failure.

    As someone pointed out below, in a helo you have a lot of energy stored in your wings (the rotors) when you loose engine power and helos don't stall in flight. As you "drop like a rock" you can increase the "power" in your wings and use that power as you approach the ground you can trade that power for lift and reduce your rate of descent...landing at a very survivable rate. I've practiced 100's of these and experienced one real one. We landed hard but the bird and the crew were unhurt.
  • Re:Too hard (Score:3, Interesting)

    by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @10:41PM (#4435464) Journal
    I really don't think that difficulty in using a flying device is what's keeping them from being mass produced for public transportation.

    Look at Moller's air-car for example. He has computers doing all the difficult stuff, so the pilot practically just points the joystick and it goes.

    (Granted, the traditional helicopter might take a lot of training to fly.... but this would be "dumbed down" into something easier to handle for a personal flying craft.)

    It looks like government regulation is the primary obstacle. The FAA places so many rules and restrictions on air flight, it's nearly impossible to build something that people can "just get in and go" like they do with their car. It would break hundreds of laws.

    The other issue with a helicopter, in particular, is the high level of maintenance. A friend of mine has a govt. job that requires him to keep up on all the details and workings of just one of their helicopters. The manual is HUGE, and it's surprising they fly at all - given all the technical issues.

    EG. The rotors have to be completely smooth. There's a special paint they paint them with that has to be flexible enough not to flake off or crack when the rotors flex and vibrate. He says they require regular inspection to make sure the paint is still intact, because if it chips or peels off - the helicopter can actually crash from an imblance in forces when one blade has more drag than the opposing blade. (I assume they have to paint them in the first place to fill in any imperfections or porous parts of the blades?)
  • by RNLockwood ( 224353 ) on Friday October 11, 2002 @11:03PM (#4435542) Homepage
    You are absolutely correct but left out a few items.

    1. The FAA also mandates inspections by FAA certified aircraft mechanics each year at the maximum or after so many hours of flight. If you miss an inspection the aircraft is forbidden to fly as it is not airworthy. The inspections can take some time and any defects found must be corrected before the craft can fly. A Piper Navajo inspection costs upwards of $2,500 and the aircraft may be out of service for some time. A side effect of this requirement, if there is to be a people's aircraft is that LOTS of certified aircraft mechanics would be required.
    2. Detailed logs must be kept of each flight, each repair, and each add-on. If the logs are not correct, spanning the whole life of the aircraft, it is not airworthy.
    3. The manufacturer and FAA provide notices of problems that sometimes require inspections, repairs, and replacement. The repairs must be complied with. You are not allowed to fly around with defects.
    4. Avionics are expensive to purchase, install, and maintain. The last time I checked three or four years ago a collision avoidance system cost $25,000. This would tend to put the price of the aircraft out of reach of most folks.
    5. It's hard to imagine a failsafe aircraft so I suppose some training including simulator training and certification will be required - probably with some sort of yearly medical inspection. If there is a problem and the aircraft needs to be auto-rotated it still has to be guided to a safe landing.

    All in all, I think that the typical person is not well suited to this degree of complexity, care, and expense and it won't happen any time soon.
  • A frigging mess (Score:5, Interesting)

    by A non moose cow ( 610391 ) <slashdot@rilo.org> on Friday October 11, 2002 @11:10PM (#4435556) Journal
    Personal aircraft will never be mainstream until they can reliably fly themselves from point 'a' to point 'b' without direct control from the passengers. If you give people control, it would be a horrible problem.

    Think of all the times people break out of the confines of traffic when the opportunity presents itself. How many times have you seen people drive up an embankment to get from a slow freeway to the feeder road? How could you possibly police all of the guaranteed violations of this type? This assumes that there is some form of infrastructure to create 'sky lanes' for people to stay in. What kind of mess would there be without some form of organized lanes?

    What about parking lots? How would you like to navigate the chaos of a parking lot in 3D? Would you find people in some sort of holding pattern over Woolworths so that they could make a mad dash for the "good spot" when someone takes off? Imagine an early morning commute where people do not trickle into a parking area because traffic lights limit their access, and lanes do not keep them in single file. If everyone decides to leave home at 'the perfect time' because they know exactly how long it takes them to fly to the office, then everyone who needs to be at work at 8:am will get to the parking lot at essentially the same time.

    What about the noise? When was the last time you heard a quiet aircraft? I can hear a single traffic helicopter approaching from a mile away when I am in my car. Think of the decibels generated by a freeway of such noisemakers.

    What about the fuel efficiency? these things have to maintain flight even at standstill. Ground vehicles do not have to expend energy to counteract gravity unless they are moving uphill. By the time automated personal flying vehicles become practical (by not allowing the occupants to break traffic laws), how efficient will ground vehicles be?

    I am rarely a naysayer of future ideas, but this idea has so many impracticalities that I find it to be a no-brainer. It will be nothing more then the folley of idiots for a very long time to come.

    The general public is too stupid to manuver safely in 3D.
  • by spike hay ( 534165 ) <`ku.em.etaloiv' `ta' `eci_ulb'> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @02:08AM (#4436084) Homepage
    For commuter craft air traffic control I have always thought a good system would be to just assign different altitudes for different directions of travel. (I.E. 9,500 for S by SW, for example)

    For a good VTOL craft, there is an interesting concept that I have heard of. You could have a flying car (a la Blade Runner) based on Active Glow Discharge Plasma panels.

    This would work by having glow discharges between many paralell wires. This would of course cause an ordinary ion drift, producing minimal propulsion. But if you put a magnetic field between each wire, you cause the ions to take a curved path around the field. This greatly speeds things up.

    Through this method, (being developed by NASA) you can accelerate air a couple hundred meters per second. The up side of this is that the glow discharge panels are very simple and would be cheaper than helicopters. So, basically, you could have a small gas turbine power supply to power the panels. The craft could actually lift off vertically. Then, during horizontal flight, wings could be extended for greater efficiency.
  • In short (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bitspotter ( 455598 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:47AM (#4436392) Journal
    When a car breaks, you coast to a stop.
    When an aircaft breaks, you drop to one.
  • Noise problems (Score:2, Interesting)

    by vaguelyamused ( 535377 ) <jsimons@rocketmail.com> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:55AM (#4436521)
    One big issue I see with personal aircraft, particularly helicopters is noise. If your neighbor staring his uber-carbuerated muscle car at 6:30am is bad, just wait until he fires up the chopper. Freeway noise can carry for miles yet the indivual cars aren't particularly loud. Helicopters are very loud and clouds of them over cities would be deafening.
  • by Usquebaugh ( 230216 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @10:45AM (#4436831)
    The emergency medical helo in London *ALWAYS* takes off by flying backwards up the autogyrate route. Appraently it's saved at least one crew who had an engine off during take off.

Real Programmers don't eat quiche. They eat Twinkies and Szechwan food.

Working...