Phoenix 0.3 Is Out 433
David Tansey writes "The Mozilla-based stripped down browser has now reached binary release 0.3. They are ripping out all the mail and news functions, composer functions, and IRC functions. The point is to work against the 'monolitic' mozilla trunk and make a browser, not a suite. I've noticed that it now uses considerably less memory than Mozilla uses and loads faster. Check it out here."
Low verse High systems... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:But I *like* those functions... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:wow (Score:5, Informative)
The size will also be getting smaller as time goes on and they rip out more of the uneeded stuff.
Re:Low verse High systems... (Score:3, Informative)
Phoenix starts as fast as IE does, click *beat* open browser window (and IE is (mostly?) memory resident)
on this AthlonXP @ 1.6Ghz with a gig of ram and a WD1200JB (WinXP SP1), Mozilla OTOH takes like 8 seconds from click to browsable window unless quicklaunch is running.
still todo (Score:5, Informative)
The sidebar does nothing for the user, provides very little mobility, and noticably crunches away on memory and processing power when being utilized. If the phoenix team really wants to win over browser afficionados (which I believe is the target market here), they would be well advised to remove this feature from mozilla as well as some of the other "fluff" features released with mozilla.
Phoenix rocks (Score:3, Informative)
Great job, people.
Re:Kick ass (Score:1, Informative)
block images from this server (Score:5, Informative)
I managed to replace the slashdot advertisements inside a story with blank space, but removing the top-banner page will also remove all your other slashdot graphics. Maybe phoenix can include a feature that blocks images from a URL containing the text "adlog.pl" ?
Re:Monolith (Score:5, Informative)
Phoenix / Thunderbird (Minotaur) (Score:5, Informative)
Thunderbird is the new name of the Minotaur project. Unlike what some said, they are thus one, and will fill the same function as Phoenix for the mail part.
Eventually we will have two very capable clients, Phoenix for browsing, and Thunderbird for Mail. This will make advocacy easier too, some people complain they cannot run Mozilla on their older Windoze boxen. Well they can run Phoenix and Thunderbird ! I measured Phoenix memory usage compared to Mozilla and Opera (all with about 6-7 tabs open, the same URLs in all three), and Phoenix was really close to Opera, about 10M less than Mozilla.. YMMV of course with different pages etc, but it is slimmer indeed.
Re:Opera or Phoenix? (Score:5, Informative)
The next big Opera release may change this, since it will be a complete rewrite with better DOM support in mind. But as of now, Opera sux in this regard.
Re:block images from this server (Score:5, Informative)
I would love to be able to try out this feature, unfortunately using Privoxy [privoxy.org] I've not been able to see any banner ads to block. Also blocks the banner ad at the top of
Phillip.
Not really that much memory gain (Score:4, Informative)
Mirrors, mirrors, mirrors (Score:5, Informative)
Phoenix: FAQ, tips&tricks and keyboard shortcu (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Soon there will be nothing left (Score:5, Informative)
I'm posting from Phoenix 0.3 now. Check the release notes before posting -- Extension Uninstall is included in this new version. To find it, Tools->Preferences->Themes and Extensions, click on the "Extensions" tab and you can disable or uninstall your extensions quite happily.
Overall it's a great browser, it really shows off what Mozilla can do. I'm recommending it to friends, it can tempt them with all the speed of IE, the features of Mozilla, and the bloat of neither
Re:here's what browser needs to me to use it (Score:2, Informative)
I, however, don't see 'code bloat' as being a plausible excuse to not implement a useful feature
Just a UI problem.... (Score:2, Informative)
In the meantime, however, I would advise you to look at this page [telia.com], it might be a work-around for your problem. The feature is still there, it's just that the little box in the UI isn't there... yet.
Here's why I won't use it (Score:3, Informative)
I've ran Phoenix 0.2, and I really tried to like it. Tabbed browsing, pop-up blocker, custimized toolbar, and it doesn't have the bloatedness of Moz. Stable too for a 0.2 release. BUT...
IT DOESN'T RENDER THE PAGES I WANT TO VIEW PROPERLY! I ran into the same problem with Netscape 7 and Moz 1.
Sites that I couldn't load properly in Phoenix:
Airmiles.ca [airmiles.ca]
- Couldn't load the front page.
Hotmail [hotmail.com]
- Loaded front page but couldn't log in.
IGN Cube [ign.com]
- This goes for all IGN game sites... the articles that are locked for subscribers have an 'i' beside them. This does not show up in Phoenix.
My Employers Self Serve site [mts.mb.ca]
- I can log in but the page hangs on the welcome screen.
I only have about 15 sites bookmarked, and the above 4 don't work. Who knows how many other sites are out there.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, maybe I have to configure something (If so, let me know please!), but the bottom line is that these sites load fine in IE.
I don't want to hear people say "These websites aren't following a standard". Tell me something I don't know.
I want a browser that lets me view the pages I want to see, thankyouverymuch. Until there's an alternative that does this, I'm sticking with IE along with its swiss cheese security.
Re:Here's why I won't use it (Score:1, Informative)
Interesting to note it uses more RAM than IE though...
Galeon and Links (Score:1, Informative)
Take also a look at Links [mff.cuni.cz] , the fastest -graphics- browser ever made (it runs circles around Opera. No kidding.)
Javascript and graphics need to be enabled before compilation, so download it (less than 4 Mb) then...
#
# make
# make install
Start it in graphics mode (otherwise you'll have a console only lynx clone)
# links -g
And enjoy it.
It still lacks the bells and whistles one can find in other browsers, so there are problems with complex and bloated websites (Java, Flash), in that case I'm happy with Galeon, but I find it perfect for anything else.
Re:Usability Problems (Score:2, Informative)
While I admit that is often useful, it's not really the purpose of a web browser to also be a file manager. The reason IE does this is so MS can claim its part of the OS. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Now try it in IE, it's different.
You do realize that many people who don't use IE view this (oft-used) argument as a troll. Mozilla simply can't (and shouldn't) follow in IE's footsteps all of the time. I mean-- for one thing, that would make Mozilla IE's bitch!
Another usability problem is the placement of the Address bar. Why is it at the same layer as the toolbar?
You're right, a bug has been posted about this(172818), and (AFAIK) it is planned for a future release. We all want more screen space.
but of course... nobody cares about Usability issues.
Hey... hey... now, you know that's just not true. Come on, pumpkin, buck up. I care, don't I?
(I'm sorry, but that was such a troll)
And that "Toolbar Customizer" with the drag and drop has bad usability problems.
Really? I found it pleasing and easy to use. Why don't you stop by the Phoenix Forums [mozillazine.org] and share your thoughts on how it can be improved?
Also, the Bookmark Management is very sloppy. They need sidebar management for bookmarks.
Agreed.
--
Posted with Phoenix!
Re:Usability Problems (Score:2, Informative)
I like my browser to mesh with my operating system. Not so far to where the OS doesn't let you uninstall it, but to where it blends in with the look of my OS. I use Windows XP, and Mozilla does not look like XP. Sure the GUI is nice, but it looks odd with my Luna style. In addition, IE meshes with Explorer. So I can easily switch between Explorer and Internet explorer. Try typing "C:\Program Files" in Mozilla/Phoenix. Very different.
Can't speak for Phoenix but in Mozilla if you choose your skin to be Classic all the GUI widgets will be drawn natively in your OS style and colours. Also Typing in 'C:\Program Files' works just fine, not sure what you did to make it not work but it works.
In addition, there are many usability issues. Click on the address bar, while it's highlighted, click, hold and drag towards the left or right. It attempts to drag the entire address, maybe to drag and drop in the bookmarks menu. Now try it in IE, it's different. It will highlight the portion and allow you to edit it etc. That is very annoying in Phoenix/Mozilla.
Don't call something a usability issue when it doesn't work the way you expect it to. As much as its convenient to say that Mozilla is made by a bunch of engineers and geeks so usability is ignored, surprisingly its not. Have a look at this bug [mozilla.org] to see how much the Mozilla community argued before settling on a solution. Also I tried doing exactly what you said and it works for me. Click once on address bar and full URL is highlighted, click again to edit via keyboard and or highlight.
Another usability problem is the placement of the Address bar. Why is it at the same layer as the toolbar? (Back, Forward buttons). I believe there is a Bug reported in BugZilla about this in Mozilla, but of course... nobody cares about Usability issues.
Once again don't be so quick to judge. Have you even tried to file a bug or put your comments into a bug or reopen a bug? As I said even though the Mozilla community is primarily geeks and engineers its not a community that "doesn't care" about usability. Don't mock it till you've actually tried to make a change happen.
Why can't I have "Selective Text on Right". And that "Toolbar Customizer" with the drag and drop has bad usability problems. It's very confusing to use. And having to "Name" your toolbars?? Err..
I needn't repeat this enough, Phoenix is at iteration 0.3. The developers are very one-to-one with comments and feedback. Did you even attempt to try to talk to them via email or to the Phoenix/Mozilla community newgroups [google.com]?
Also, the Bookmark Management is very sloppy. They need sidebar management for bookmarks.
Yet again you're just spewing opinion that has no basis in reality. Mozilla has had Sidebar based bookmark management for more builds that I can even remember now. Also don't say something as if its fact. In my opinion IE's bookmark system...well its not really much of a system because it uses the windows file system to just throw a bunch of files and folders in a another folder...is pretty damn sloppy. Furthermore Mozilla's "sloppy" bookmark system has features that let you keyword certain bookmarks so for example i can go to my Address bar and type in 'g something i am searching for' and have that taken straight to Google.
You've based Mozilla wholeheartedly while giving it at best a half assed chance. Also while you were so quick to bash this "non-usability caring" community did you once stop to think that when you have a problem with IE you've got no where to go other than the crash reporting now featured in XP? Atleast with Mozilla you can directly look into the guts of the program and see exactly why things work the way the work.
Don't give up too quickly my friend, Mozilla is a good friend. Like a pet 60' foot monster on your own leash eating HTML faster than any blue 'e' even could!
Less memory? (Score:3, Informative)
Clue me please.
Bazman
(actually I see about six of each of those but I assume thats threads-as-processes for you)
What's with the binary-only releases? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Usability Problems (Score:5, Informative)
As for Mozilla, blame Netscape, their graphic designers wanted it that way, which is why, despite having been patched, it hasn't made its way into the Moz trunk. That particular bug doesn't even have an owner right now!! Selective Text on Right is actually very bad for usability, but if you want it, file a bug and see what the Phoenix developers say.
As for the toolbar customizer, how do you figure that it has usability problems? It works the same as almost any other toolbar customizer; you move what you want onto the toolbar! The whole point of the Phoenix customization is to have the customizing happen LIVE, as opposed to making a queued list, and then applying your settings. This is a GOOD usability practice.
Lastly, you name a toolbar when you create a new one so that you can turn the toolbar on and off! The new toolbar appears by name in the Toolbar list. I personally create a new bar called "Address Bar", then drag the address text field onto it. Go to View, then Toolbars, and there it is! Now you can create toolbars and turn them off and on as you wish. Again, this is GOOD UI practice. They have it. You can add, delete, rename, move, etc., your bookmarks from the Boomark sidebar. Again, have you really used Phoenix, as in for more than 30 seconds? I really don't think you have. Almost all of your "complaints" are false.
Re:What's with the binary-only releases? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Interaction, not Merging (Score:3, Informative)
For mail purposes, there is the Thunderbird [mozilla.org] (formerly known as Minotaur) project. According to mozilla.org, it is expected [mozilla.org] around the time of Phoenix 0.5.
As a Mozilla Mail user (on Windows), I personally can't wait to give it a try.
Re:Is it worth it? (Score:3, Informative)
Anything that can be done to address the memory foot print is a HUGE win for Mozilla.
Re:But I *like* those functions... (Score:3, Informative)
The thing's built around the concept of plugins.
-Billy
Re:Is it worth it? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Memory reports in Linux are NEVER accurate! (Score:3, Informative)
Memory is shared between all 10 Mozilla sessions.
The best way to watch your memory is to use