Fuel Cell Laptop announced by Toshiba 187
Steve writes "Following on from the Fuel Cells approved for airline cabins story a week or so back, it would seem there will soon be a need for that approval:
Toshiba has announced a fuelcell powered laptop for 2004,and possibly a PDA."
Toshiba Laptop, why CowboyNeal? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Toshiba Laptop, why CowboyNeal? (Score:1, Funny)
Yawn (Score:3, Insightful)
A 'Standard' battery form factor (AAA, AA, C, D)
or
A small doohickey I can plug a standard AC mains cord into.
Re:Yawn (Score:3, Interesting)
Probably missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
The point is to not have to have batteries at all so you just pump it up with some butane/methane whatever every now and again. This is a HUGE upgrade, not having to replace/recharge PDA batteries every couple hours of use could improve screens and processor power. And to top it all off, means that the manufacturers will make more money selling NEW things.
You can bet that this is only the first of a coming shift in consumer electronics.
Re:Probably missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Probably missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
This is exactly why I am non-plussed by this news. All we need is for every manufacturer to start selling the 'custom fuel mix' required for their device, or the 'custom fuel injector' or whatever.
As another poster said, a universal wall-wart replacement would be ideal for laptops and largeish devices, and standard formfactor batteries would be ideal for smaller devices.
Sure, there are plenty of applications for the integrated custom battery/fuelcell, but why should every product be saddled with the additional design and material cost of having the power source integrated when it can easily be handled by a portable universal device. My baby's vibratey chair eats C batteries for lunch, but I'm only going to use it for less than a year or so - Why should the cost of the thing go up to build in the refillable powersource.
Of course, once the fuelcell is sufficiently inexpensive, like a mass-producable nanotech 'chip' that can be stamped out for a few cents, your idea is good, but until then, I think replacing current form factors is the way to go.
Re:Probably missing the point (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yawn (Score:3, Insightful)
Hit the snooze until you find a laptop that takes batteries in standard form factors. Heck, many PDA's now have built-in or custom fitted batteries.
Re:Yawn (Score:2, Insightful)
Not many devices use a single battery. If they do then chances are they aren't exactly the type of device that needs extended battery life. For anything else that uses 2,4,6,8 batteries it might be a good solution for at least some of those devices with standard battery arrangements (boom boxes with 6 D's in an odd config won't be helped) to make a fuel cell pack. That is a single unit the size and general shape of say 2 AA's that would fit inside the standard compartment for say your current CD or MP3 player. They could offer both side by side and head to foot versions.
Or of course there is the option for a fuel cell power pack that is say maybe voltage selectable and has all the common DC plugs just like todays voltage adaptors. Or you could have the option to buy one that is single application specific.
but another poster also has the point right that another benefit to the industry is the ability to immediatly make completely (well slightly) redisigned products that take advantage of the higher power density; thus small form factor. Then on the slightly longer scale time frame they can start making portable products that were simply not possible with current power sources. Consider how much cell phones are held back because of power requirements. How much portable music devices are held back (in both power, size and quality) because of power requirements. PDA's, laptops, etc.
so making the statement, wake me up when you can get a fuel cell in AA AAA etc is just a red herring designed to sound more clever than everyone else by being contrary (can I acutally use that as a verb?)
Re:Yawn (Score:2)
None of these are likely to happen anytime soon (well, possibly D, but how popular are those?), certainly not AAA and AA. But since many consumer devices use pairs of these, you might see fuel cells the shape of two AAA or AA side-by-side, making it possible to power Palm PDAs and portable CD players. One of the first markets could very well be laptop battery replacement fuel cells. Most laptop batteries are big enough to squeeze a current generation fuel cell into that form factor. I'd love to be able to buy a fuel cell to replace my Inspiron battery and give me a few more hours runtime.
Re:Yawn (Score:2, Informative)
Fuel Cell, eh? (Score:4, Funny)
Humor folks, enjoy it! =)
Re:Fuel Cell, eh? (Score:2, Funny)
And Jet Fuel for Overclockers.
Re:Fuel Cell, eh? (Score:2)
Re:Fuel Cell, eh? (Score:1)
hahah. heh. erm... (Score:2)
Isn't that humor stuff supposed to be funny? Btw, research shows that humor is likely to be 87.3% less funy if it is labled as such.
Re:hahah. heh. erm... (Score:2)
That beats the 97.164% less funny if nobody sees it because it was modded as 'off-topic'.
Fuel Cell... (Score:3, Interesting)
Any idea what these are actually fueled with? Alcohol or something proprietary?
Re:Fuel Cell... (Score:5, Funny)
Methanol, IIRC. Might also run on ethanol, so if your laptop starts running low, just pour some vodka into it :)
Re:Fuel Cell... (Score:5, Funny)
Somehow I think these would be difficult to sell in Russia... Think of the conflict... "work on laptop" vs. "unwind with world's best vodka"
Be like trying to sell the french cars that run on champagne.
"My car is electric, but my laptop runs on gas."
Re:Fuel Cell... (Score:2)
Re:Fuel Cell... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Fuel Cell... (Score:2)
Anything "proprietary" would be more expensive to manufacture and less efficient.
Just like printer cartridges (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Just like printer cartridges (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just like printer cartridges (Score:1)
They'll have a hold on us by the batteries! Ladies, you can't get out of this one on a technicality... ba DUM dum.
Re:Just like printer cartridges (Score:2)
That reminds me: Getting flipped off by somebody violates the DMCA. Hands are digital, and reading the act as an offensive gesture requires decrpyting its meaning.
Re:Just like printer cartridges (Score:2)
And you know it's true.
Better Reading Here (Score:5, Informative)
Discussion from January of the concept [wired.com]
Apple Laptops [macworld.com]
Air clearance for them [com.com]
Good idea, except... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Good idea, except... (Score:2)
I'm hoping that Dell (or some third party) comes out with some fuel cells for existing laptops. I'd like more than the 2.5 hours my battery gives me.
Re:Good idea, except... (Score:2)
Of course you would have to either carry a bottle of the fuel or stop by a 7-11 to get the refill.
Please ignore the spelling
Re:Good idea, except... (Score:2)
Don't put your hopes on nuclear cells.
The environmentalists will be dead against
it. Can you even get a decent pacemaker
anymore?
10 hours is enough (Score:2)
10 hours will make it possible to use the thing on long flights or to spend a day working in the park/ on the beach. Not so with 4 hours.
Tor
Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:4, Interesting)
* Axe the CD-ROM drive. Who needs a CD drive on their laptop? Axe it, use large amount of gained space for battery space. Spinning CDs *eats* power.
* Make the screen smaller. Laptops used to have much smaller screens, and improvements in power usage haven't made up for the bigger size. Use a smaller screen. (Heck, there's a nice industry already doing this on an extreme scale with the Vaios and similar).
* Do not use an x86 processor. Repeat after me. Intel and AMD both make processors completely unsuited for laptop use.
* Get rid of the floppy drive. Use saved space for more battery. No one uses floppy drives any more.
* Axe the 3d hardware and extra video crap. No one is going to play Quake on their laptop anyway -- lousy form factor, and trackballs, trackpads, and nipples are all awful at Quake control.
* Have "premium" batteries. It costs more to make fancier, longer lasting batteries? Okay, do so and then offer both fancy and less fancy as an option.
Re:Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you fial to grasp how laptops are use din the workforce. Everyone I have eveer worked with who used a laptop used it both as their travel AND primary PC. Get back to the office, popup a mouse, plug in to monitor, plug in ot network, and you're good to go. All your files are always there, ready for use. Most people do not have both a workplace desktop and a laptop, they just use the laptop for both. saves them time and hassle and the company money.
Now with that out of the way, how "useless" is your CDROM, floppy drive, x86, and video hardware now? SUre, the smaller screen arguement is valid, but totally ditching the CDROM or floppy isn't. Most laptop manufacturers allow you to swap out your CDROM or floppy for an extra battery when on the road already anyways.
Re:Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:2)
My own workplace is doing the same transition. I'm looking for a different solution -- longer battery life, not a replacement for my tower.
Actually, I could see just having a laptop, if you were a Windows user who didn't have 24/7 connectivity -- it's not particularly convenient to work with your computer remotely -- but I use my computer regularly from a distance.
I just don't care very much about processor power on the laptop. My only real criteria are price and battery life (and while I'm not terribly worried about size, those massive "battery extenders" are a little too large for me).
If I could get a wireless "vt100" dumb terminal, with nothing but TCP/IP/ssh capabilities, I'd be happy.
Re:Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:2, Insightful)
There are also notebooks that have 3D hardware, a gig of ram, 15" screens, and last 10 minutes on a battery, because some people want fairly portable "workstations" and never intend to run them for long times on battery.
Re:Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:2)
Yeah, but as I pointed out, these are more extreme than I'm talking about. The weird screen form factor is a turn off, at least to me.
Saying youlike a smaller screen isn't the same as saying a half-height screen.
The other problem is that most people buying things like this are interested in portability, not extreme battery life, and a lot of features are based around that.
Also, they're very expensive.
Re:Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:2)
Make the screen smaller.
I'll need a magnifying glass to see my text! At 1400x1050 resolution with small fonts, I need every square inch of that screen.
And I just *know* you're not suggesting I put less stuff on the screen at once... I'm afraid I'd have to beat you severely if you suggested that. I don't have enough room as it is, even with six virtual desktops, decent resolution and small fonts.
I *use* my computer.
Re:Battery Life Could be Better Today (Score:2)
Re:You've go to be kidding me. (Score:2)
Re:Good idea, except... (Score:2)
Fuel Cells are for mobile apps. The problem with the batteries approach is you have to shutdown and restart to replace them.
In other words, it won't suit your needs, but if you're a businessman flying overseas it's a wonderful gift.
This type of thing really is for the corporate customer, not so much for the consumer.
Ethanol? (Score:5, Funny)
Business travelers could have it bad, too. Imagine this scene:
*Man gets pulled over for swerving on the highway*
Officer: Sir, have you been drinking?
Man: No officer, not at all.
Officer: Why is there an open bottle of vodka in your hand?
Man: Oh, I had my laptop playing a DVD and the battery nearly died. I forgot my car adapter, so I was just trying to refill the battery.
Officer: With vodka?
Man: Yes, officer.
Officer: Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to step out of the car so I can beat you senseless with my nightstick.
Re:Ethanol? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ethanol? (Score:2)
Man: Oh, I had my laptop playing a DVD and the battery nearly died. I forgot my car adapter, so I was just trying to refill the battery.
now why would you be driving around and watching a dvd at the same time?
I dont know, but if he says he's watching a dvd, chances are thats whats causing the swerving. You cant nick him for drink-driving!
Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
With the popularity of wireless networks, it has become a pain to have to plug in the laptop to the electric outlet while you spent that money to set up a wireless entwork so that you could stay on the net without any wires.
Although network technology is much newer, it seems it has managed to progress faster than battery technology sofar.
Apple is one company who has done all they could to extend battery life (the G3 processor uses so little juice it helps a lot), but every company is still at the mercy of the limits of the battery companies.
Re:Finally (Score:1)
Now with that said, i would love to see 12hour batteries, and 6hour dvd players. Would be very cool.
Re:Finally (Score:2, Insightful)
If you look at the increase in computing power, speed, screen size, etc. over the last 10 years, it's a wonder that we get any more than
Re:Finally (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes! I want to run my laptop for a week on a single charge! If I can buy a $14 lithium-ion battery for my cellphone that'll let me use it for a week, why can't I buy a battery that'll run my laptop for that amount of time?
I wouldn't demand that it be 1/8" thin and weigh next to nothing -- after all, I'm not going to carry my laptop around in my *pocket*. Still, though, shouldn't it be possible to make a battery pack that'd get the job done?
With the popularity of wireless networks, it has become a pain to have to plug in the laptop to the electric outlet while you spent that money to set up a wireless entwork so that you could stay on the net without any wires.
Right! Can anyone speak authoritatively to this and answer the question "What would it take?" If I'm willing to spend $3000+ for a laptop, I'd probably be willing to shell out a reasonable price for a portable power source that'll run my laptop for as long as my phone. What's stopping the battery makers from selling such a product?
Is there a reason that no one is doing the equivalent of wiring up 30 of those cellphone flatpack batteries in parallel and selling *that*? Would that work?
Or is the power drain for an illuminated LCD screen and current-generation CPU & hard drive still so high that they'd have to sell it with a steel frame, rubberized luggage handle and wheels?
Re:Old and new (Score:4, Insightful)
New industries, once they take off, nearly always progress much more rapidly than established ones. People (Bill Gates for one person) say stuff like this comparing airlines and computers: "If airlines had improved as fast as computers in the last X years, we'd be traveling from New York to California for a dime in three minutes." Not a fair comparison.
Similar progress lines showup with you too. Learn to play tennis or something. At first you suck, but if you're trying at all you can get basic strokes and so on down quickly -- you'll get better pretty fast for a while. Then you hit a sort of lull, where you level off and it's frustrating how little progress you seem to make. Every now and again you'll get a little burst of progress for one reason or another -- often sparked by an external source like a new racket or something -- but there's no way the rate of change will go back to that early one. Ask a pro tennis player how much work it takes to dramatically improve her game at that level. There's a point of diminishing returns thing going on.
Yay? (Score:4, Interesting)
Almost there (Score:5, Funny)
C'mon, man, truly practical computing!
Re:Almost there (Score:5, Funny)
How about... (Score:5, Funny)
In other news (Score:5, Funny)
SpleenTech has announced plans for an addon to the digestion track exit that produces a new winged hybrid monkey. It is slated for release in Fall 2007.
Another [shrug] future possible product announcement, brought to you by the fine folks at SlashDot!
Tiny Methanol powered fuel cell (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure, it's kind of stupid, but it's neat to be able to play with a real fuel cell.
Nice Idea (Score:1)
---
Copy Protection: A clever method of preventing incompetent pirates from stealing software and legitimate customers from using it.
(from:http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/software.
Fuel Cells (Score:3, Funny)
Glad to see this! (Score:2, Interesting)
Batteries quite frankly suck and I travel alot. Expect at least 1 customer (me) to buy one of those fuel cell laptops.
One thing I do wonder though, is environmentally how will a disposed of fuel cell treat the environment as opposed to a disposed of battery?
Re:Glad to see this! (Score:2, Interesting)
I'd imagine it would be much, much more environmentally friendly. The batteries currently found on laptops are full of fairly toxic heavy metals, which is why you really shouldn't take them to a landfill when they give up the ghost. In contrast, a spent fuel cell couple be as simple as a piece of plastic that can be easily recycled. Far less waste, and far better for the surroundings.
Fuel cells? (Score:2, Interesting)
They're jumpy enough that my friend, when he joked that he had "Yeah, and a big brick of C4" in his bag to a National Guard soldier, they detained him for 6 hours and -- I exaggerate not -- gave him a full cavity search, tore open his shoes, and destroyed his laptop looking for bombs.
Though it may be an advance, it may be banned from airplanes by paranoid maniacs like John Ashcroft.
Re:Fuel cells? (Score:5, Insightful)
Translation: He's a moron.
Re:Fuel cells? (Score:3, Troll)
2: If you can rig a fuel cell to explode, you can probably turn a chocolate bar, three staples and a piece of tape into a 40 megatonne nuclear warehead
3: Your friend is an idiot. I'm surprised they didn't though his ass in jail.
Re:Fuel cells? (Score:2, Funny)
You can do cool stuff with alcohol solutions, tho. We used to put Stetson(tm) into a 2l soda bottle with a small hole in the lid and a nail in the side. Shake it up, and touch the nail with a portable tesla coil. Instarocket. Fun stuff.
And your friend-- think about this for a minute. Joking with Mr. "I've been pulled from my cushy desk job, my career is on hold, and I'm dressed in green camo inside of an airport, and I'd really like to take it out on the first idiot who yanks my chain". Does green camo inside an airport make any sense to anyone???
Green camo inside an airport (Score:5, Funny)
No, it doesn't make sense. It's just what they had available.
In a few months, the troops in the airports will be issued the new Office Camoflage(tm) uniforms -- imprinted with line and color patterns designed to blend in with their surroundings, airport security personnel will soon be indistinguishable from filing cabinets, desks and office water coolers.
These uniforms will be supplied by the same company that brought us the Urban Camoflage(tm) designs that allow tanks and APCs to be concealed in plain sight on city streets -- protective side-panel paint schemes such as Parked Van, Wrecked Pickup and Abandoned Dumpster.
- - - - - - - - -
All kidding aside, the guy's friend exercised what I'd call dangerously poor judgment in choosing his remarks while dealing with cranky people in uniforms with guns.
Recharging fuel cells (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Recharging fuel cells (Score:2, Funny)
/. effect... google cache link.... (Score:3, Informative)
Running on Empty (Score:2, Funny)
This reminds me... (Score:5, Funny)
Of an old Transactor Magazine cartoon with a 1541 drive and this huge engine/blower contraption up on top. There's this hick with a baseball cap claiming that it would back up disks in XX seconds...
But yeah, everytime I see news about fuel cell powered laptops, I imagine cranking over a two-stroke engine, pull cord, blue smoke, and noise!
Perhaps it's just the cold medication...
Aw nuts... (Score:4, Funny)
wanted to read that too. gosh darn you geeks...
and... slashdoted... (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, this is pretty cool. Although we'll have to see how the fueling method works. Some people mentioned a 'cigarett lighter' type thing you could buy, but we'll have to see how much of a 'revineu source' these companies consider it... It would kind of suck if they cost as much as the ink cartrages for most printers
Even if the price is down to $2-$3 a cart, I'd still rather go with the practicaly free eletrical power from an outlet then disposable carts.
And finaly, eletrical power is so cheap that most people don't mind if you just plug your stuff in. When I bring my laptop just about anywhere, I can feel confident I'll be able to find an outlet to plug it into. I could even get an adapter for my car (actualy, an 9vdc->120vac to plug my 120vac ->12vdc power brick, but hey it works
With these things, you're SOL. Personaly, I think it would be cool to combine the two into a hybrid solution, a 30min/1hr battery that you can charge while using via a plug or via the fuel cell system. That would really give you the best of both worlds.
Of course, when we can get fuel cell's for $0.20 and fill them up anywhere (say, people put natural gas taps in their kitchen or something
(oh, btw. I'm tying this in on a server machine, that dosn't happen to have any spell checking software installed. Now you can all see my horrible spelling in it's full glory!!!)
was:and... slashdoted... (Score:2, Insightful)
Hmm... most cars are 12v now days...but anyway..
I could think of many places where fuel cells would definately be more readily available than AC outlets... As another poster already mentioned, on planes unless your in the buisness class most dont have any type of outlet. In other countries, risk frying stuff using a voltage adapter and figuring out which settings and plug adapters to use? nah, just go to the nearest liquor store and get some grain alcohol. Hiking/working in a wilderness area w/a laptop for whatever reason, be it simply to download pics off a digital camera, keep a journal, view maps, chart some native civilization etc. Recharging the fuelcell might be easier than finding an AC outlet nearby, most civilizations have alcohol in some form. Then again you could just drag around a solarpanel...
TM
Brings new meaning... (Score:1)
Other article on the Toshiba fuel cell, (Score:3, Informative)
Fraunhofer? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Fraunhofer? (Score:2)
No, but your diffraction pattern can. ;-)
fuel door? (Score:2, Funny)
Consumable costs will be the killer (Score:5, Insightful)
Although wholesale costs for methanol are $0.33 per gallon. I'd be hesitant to pay five bucks to "recharge" my laptop once, OTOH I'd be willing to pay $2.50 for a gallon of methanol that's probably good for forty charges even though it might involve a bit of a hassle to transfer the liquid into "refill" containers.
Re:Consumable costs will be the killer (Score:2)
Phillip.
No More Bean-O (Score:2, Funny)
From the horses mouth (Score:4, Informative)
It has a little more info...
Fuel cells (Score:2)
and yes I know what a fuel cell is. just seeing the word fuel makes mne think of gassing up at the pump.
Oxygen depletion (Score:2, Interesting)
Can methanol be synthesized with common materials? (Score:2)
If so, this sounds like a good way to keep us dependent on fossil fuels for a while longer yet.
*sigh*
I wonder... (Score:2)
You see, I am in the slow process of building an electric vehicle, made from bicycle parts and a half-horsepower electric motor. I am not even sure it is going to work when I get it done, but for the time being, I am considering using gel-cells that would need to be recharged - I am figuring on 24-48 volts @ 14 AH - and even that will probably not be enough (I am planning on using muliple 12V gel-cells wired series/parallel style to get the volta/amps I need).
So, imagine if I could use such fuel cells instead, and have a fuel tank of methanol to run them. Maybe they might even run on other types of alcohol? Whatever, but this would allow me to get the range I want for my EV (provided they were cheap enough, which they probably won't be initially)...
Re:Nothing gets on planes. (Score:5, Informative)
Fuels cells to be allowed on planes [fuelcelltoday.com]
Re:Nothing gets on planes. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Nothing gets on planes. (Score:5, Interesting)
So, you can take a butane lighter on board a plane, but only one at a time. On the other hand, you can easily order several alcoholic drinks like vodka which would combust very nicely from the comfort of your spacious seat.
Re:Nothing gets on planes. (Score:1)
Refilling fuel cells? (Score:1)
You'll no longer be looking for a spare outlet; you'll look for a can of butane/whatever.
Re:Refilling fuel cells? (Score:3, Interesting)
This would be much safer for the user, and probably easier to deal with from a production, maintenance, and disposal point of view.
Re:Where to buy replacements? (Score:1)
Re:This troubles me (Score:1)
Gosh! (Score:2)
I think EVRYONE learned the Great Powerbook Lesson.
Take this guy at his name (Score:2)
On second thought... (Score:2)