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Technology

Fuel Cell Laptop announced by Toshiba 187

Steve writes "Following on from the Fuel Cells approved for airline cabins story a week or so back, it would seem there will soon be a need for that approval: Toshiba has announced a fuelcell powered laptop for 2004,and possibly a PDA."
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Fuel Cell Laptop announced by Toshiba

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  • by NineNine ( 235196 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @01:53PM (#4471042)
    That's great, but from what I understand, these things have to be replaced, or at least recharged. How's that gonna be done?
  • Fuel Cell... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @01:54PM (#4471050) Homepage Journal
    A guy pulls into a full service gas station, whips out his laptop and says, "Fill it up with Hi-Test!"

    Any idea what these are actually fueled with? Alcohol or something proprietary?

  • Good idea, except... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Allaria ( 547479 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @01:55PM (#4471072) Journal
    It's still only 10 hours. I betcha that the price difference for this baby will be a lot more than if you just stock up on extra batteries. I'll keep my ineffiecent Dell for now.
  • Yay? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Giggles Of Doom ( 267141 ) <michael.redlightning@net> on Thursday October 17, 2002 @01:56PM (#4471084) Homepage
    This sounds pretty sweet. I do wonder if the cartridges would be refillable though. Changing them out and replacing them every other day could lead to a large pile of empty cans very quickly, even moreso if the technology catches on. While they are far better then dumping Li-ion batteries into landfills, refillible would still be better yet.
  • by Charlton Heston ( 588481 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:01PM (#4471146) Homepage
    That's not true. I was searched by a helpful, if not portly, security lady. She politely informed me that I was allowed to have only one lighter, not the two she found in my laptop bag. Helpfully, she allowed me to choose which of my two lighters I'd like to give to her. I chose the older one, as I am not the sentimental type and it was nearly out of butane. I was then allowed to board the aircraft and proceed safely to my destination.

    So, you can take a butane lighter on board a plane, but only one at a time. On the other hand, you can easily order several alcoholic drinks like vodka which would combust very nicely from the comfort of your spacious seat.
  • by sys$manager ( 25156 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:05PM (#4471183)
    The company I work for produces Methanol. In one of the boardrooms is a little acryllic car shaped object and inside is a tiny methanol powered fuel cell and a little supply of methanol. You flip the switch and a little electric motor starts turning a little wheel.

    Sure, it's kind of stupid, but it's neat to be able to play with a real fuel cell.
  • Glad to see this! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by HackHackBoom ( 198866 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:05PM (#4471192) Journal
    While I'm not a fan of toshiba laptops, I am glad to see a major manufacturer pushing this technology.

    Batteries quite frankly suck and I travel alot. Expect at least 1 customer (me) to buy one of those fuel cell laptops.

    One thing I do wonder though, is environmentally how will a disposed of fuel cell treat the environment as opposed to a disposed of battery?

  • Fuel cells? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SexyKellyOsbourne ( 606860 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:06PM (#4471196) Journal
    After September 11th, wouldn't airlines be quite wary of anything that could, if properly rigged by master terrorists, blow a hole in the fuselage large enough to down the plane?

    They're jumpy enough that my friend, when he joked that he had "Yeah, and a big brick of C4" in his bag to a National Guard soldier, they detained him for 6 hours and -- I exaggerate not -- gave him a full cavity search, tore open his shoes, and destroyed his laptop looking for bombs.

    Though it may be an advance, it may be banned from airplanes by paranoid maniacs like John Ashcroft.
  • by suman28 ( 558822 ) <suman28@hot[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:07PM (#4471207)
    This [wired.com] article states that we can only involves replacing the liquid fuel without shutting down the computer. But how do you get to the battery without shutting down the computer?
  • Re:Yawn (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rick the Red ( 307103 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [deR.ehT.kciR]> on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:08PM (#4471219) Journal
    I'd settle for a small doohickey I can use in place of a wall wart. With adjustable output voltage and multiple plugs, something like this [radioshack.com] and this [radioshack.com].
  • Doubt it (Score:0, Interesting)

    by PhysicsScholar ( 617526 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:08PM (#4471226) Homepage Journal
    I highly doubt that Toshiba has strenously tested their fuel cell model for these new machines.

    Is every engineer there totally confident and fully knowledgeable about all aspects of fuel cells? If so, then they surely know how to deal with:
    - current limits
    - bipolar plates
    - Efficiency and open circuit voltage
    - Efficiency and efficiency Limits
    - Efficiency and the fuel cell voltage

    Not to mention they should have a firm grasp on:
    - The Effect of Pressure and Gas Concentration
    - The Nernst equation
    - Hydrogen partial pressure
    - Fuel and oxidant utilisation
    - Fuel Cell Irreversibilities - Causes of Voltage Drop
    - Activation Losses
    - The Tafel equation
    - Reducing the activation overvoltage
    - Summary of activation overvoltage

    The last thing anyone wants is a fried laptop. Imagine walking away from your new Toshiba fuel cell-powered Pentium 5 laptop only to come back and find the screensaver off because the entire unit is charred like a cod on a plate of Fish 'N Chips!
  • and... slashdoted... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by autopr0n ( 534291 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:16PM (#4471304) Homepage Journal
    That's nice.

    Anyway, this is pretty cool. Although we'll have to see how the fueling method works. Some people mentioned a 'cigarett lighter' type thing you could buy, but we'll have to see how much of a 'revineu source' these companies consider it... It would kind of suck if they cost as much as the ink cartrages for most printers :P

    Even if the price is down to $2-$3 a cart, I'd still rather go with the practicaly free eletrical power from an outlet then disposable carts.

    And finaly, eletrical power is so cheap that most people don't mind if you just plug your stuff in. When I bring my laptop just about anywhere, I can feel confident I'll be able to find an outlet to plug it into. I could even get an adapter for my car (actualy, an 9vdc->120vac to plug my 120vac ->12vdc power brick, but hey it works :P)

    With these things, you're SOL. Personaly, I think it would be cool to combine the two into a hybrid solution, a 30min/1hr battery that you can charge while using via a plug or via the fuel cell system. That would really give you the best of both worlds.

    Of course, when we can get fuel cell's for $0.20 and fill them up anywhere (say, people put natural gas taps in their kitchen or something :P) I'd be willing to go all fuelcell, save a small battery that would let me change carts without rebooting :P

    (oh, btw. I'm tying this in on a server machine, that dosn't happen to have any spell checking software installed. Now you can all see my horrible spelling in it's full glory!!!)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:23PM (#4471372)
    A while back, (more than a year, I beleive) Motorola announced the creation of an alcohol-based fuel cell system which didn't require a pump to move the air...

    This came with the possible promises of 1 month cell phone life, and 15 hour laptop run times.

    It would be a great thing to pop a plastic cylinder of alcohol into your laptop, PDA, cell phone, etc. and not worry about finding an outlet.

    But nothing ever really came of it. Maybe the platinum mesh proved to expensive to manufacture.
  • by Oculus Habent ( 562837 ) <[oculus.habent] [at] [gmail.com]> on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:31PM (#4471448) Journal
    Hopefully, the fuel will come is sealed canisters that are pierced as they are insterted into a device, like ink cartridges and pens, or CO2 and paintball guns.

    This would be much safer for the user, and probably easier to deal with from a production, maintenance, and disposal point of view.
  • Re:Finally (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TyZone ( 555958 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:44PM (#4471624) Homepage
    It's time the batteries finally caught up to the way we want to use our laptops.

    Yes! I want to run my laptop for a week on a single charge! If I can buy a $14 lithium-ion battery for my cellphone that'll let me use it for a week, why can't I buy a battery that'll run my laptop for that amount of time?

    I wouldn't demand that it be 1/8" thin and weigh next to nothing -- after all, I'm not going to carry my laptop around in my *pocket*. Still, though, shouldn't it be possible to make a battery pack that'd get the job done?

    With the popularity of wireless networks, it has become a pain to have to plug in the laptop to the electric outlet while you spent that money to set up a wireless entwork so that you could stay on the net without any wires.

    Right! Can anyone speak authoritatively to this and answer the question "What would it take?" If I'm willing to spend $3000+ for a laptop, I'd probably be willing to shell out a reasonable price for a portable power source that'll run my laptop for as long as my phone. What's stopping the battery makers from selling such a product?

    Is there a reason that no one is doing the equivalent of wiring up 30 of those cellphone flatpack batteries in parallel and selling *that*? Would that work?

    Or is the power drain for an illuminated LCD screen and current-generation CPU & hard drive still so high that they'd have to sell it with a steel frame, rubberized luggage handle and wheels?

  • Re:Glad to see this! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ocelotbob ( 173602 ) <ocelot&ocelotbob,org> on Thursday October 17, 2002 @02:45PM (#4471643) Homepage
    One thing I do wonder though, is environmentally how will a disposed of fuel cell treat the environment as opposed to a disposed of battery?

    I'd imagine it would be much, much more environmentally friendly. The batteries currently found on laptops are full of fairly toxic heavy metals, which is why you really shouldn't take them to a landfill when they give up the ghost. In contrast, a spent fuel cell couple be as simple as a piece of plastic that can be easily recycled. Far less waste, and far better for the surroundings.

  • by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @03:17PM (#4472100) Journal
    Battery life could be a lot better today, if people put less *crap* in their laptops. Let's do a rundown:

    * Axe the CD-ROM drive. Who needs a CD drive on their laptop? Axe it, use large amount of gained space for battery space. Spinning CDs *eats* power.

    * Make the screen smaller. Laptops used to have much smaller screens, and improvements in power usage haven't made up for the bigger size. Use a smaller screen. (Heck, there's a nice industry already doing this on an extreme scale with the Vaios and similar).

    * Do not use an x86 processor. Repeat after me. Intel and AMD both make processors completely unsuited for laptop use.

    * Get rid of the floppy drive. Use saved space for more battery. No one uses floppy drives any more.

    * Axe the 3d hardware and extra video crap. No one is going to play Quake on their laptop anyway -- lousy form factor, and trackballs, trackpads, and nipples are all awful at Quake control.

    * Have "premium" batteries. It costs more to make fancier, longer lasting batteries? Okay, do so and then offer both fancy and less fancy as an option.
  • Oxygen depletion (Score:2, Interesting)

    by NovaDenizen3 ( 163827 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @04:20PM (#4472846)
    So what happens when everybody starts carrying these things onto planes? Will the airlines charge extra for the additional oxygen consumed? How much oxygen does one of these things use compared to a typical person?
  • by afidel ( 530433 ) on Thursday October 17, 2002 @04:39PM (#4473073)
    With the exception of the x86 processor you have described the IBM X-series laptop. It's lighter and has longer battery life then the T series laptops by moving the cdrom, floppy, etc into the base station which is left in the office, it also has a smaller screen. These are great for marketing guys that are on planes all the time. For the Engineers we have T series and Dell laptops because they are desktop replacements. The T series are good for general use and we get the Dell's for CAD guys that need the 3D processor and larger 1600*1200 screens. Basically the market will expand to fit all niches and already has solutions for the lower powered segment.

Always try to do things in chronological order; it's less confusing that way.

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