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Technology

Cellphones On Airplanes 488

Bonker writes "According to this USAToday article two companies, AirCell, and Verizon, are developing technology to let airline passengers safely use cellphones while in flight. The system would block frequencies normally used by cellphones and force cell customers to 'roam' on the new network. Saftey concerns aside, I thought that a plane cabin was the one place I would never have to deal with people who won't quit talking on the phone."
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Cellphones On Airplanes

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  • deal? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by csimicah ( 592121 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @11:51AM (#4522573)
    What is there to "deal" with about people talking on phones? Do you also have to "deal" with people talking to the person next to them?

    Are you just upset about only being able to eavesdrop on one side of the conversation?
  • by Gorm the DBA ( 581373 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @11:57AM (#4522635) Journal
    Okay...ummm...if they're blocking the frequencies normally used...how does my cell phone know to switch to a new frequency? Does my phone have the right transmitter to use a new frequency?

    Keep in mind, my cell phone is one of those dumb "Buy the minutes as you use em" kinda things, which is a good deal seeing as how I only have to spend $15 every 90 days, as opposed to $30/month for the 10 minutes I generally use the phone.

  • by FreeUser ( 11483 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:04PM (#4522711)
    Why the use of ANY electronic device is prohibited below a certain altitude, except when sitting still at the gate?

    Because in some geometries, under some conditions, a cell phone or laptop can disrupt radio reception and navigational equipment. I have forgotten to turn my cell phone off more than once, and I routinely use my laptop to listen to ogg files while flying my Beech Sundowner on long cross country flight. The vast majority of the time there is no noticable effect, by on two different occasions I have had my laptop completely block my radio reception.

    Now, before some smartass, thinking they know what they do not, blurts something stupid like "how did you know you missed radio reception if you couldn't hear it?" I'll go ahead and point out what should be obvious:

    1) You get weather data prior to requesting permission to taxi. This whether data is broadcast on a looped tape, updated once per hour if it is ATIS, updated constantly by automated equipment if it is ASOS, etc. In one case the ASOS was silent with the laptop on, perfectly audible with it off (this was confirmed by power cycling the laptop severa times).

    2) When you call clearance delivery or ground for taxi instructions, you expect a reply. If you don't get one, you call again. If this persists, you probably have a problem (usually you've dialed up the wrong frequency, have your volume turned down, or aren't transmitting). Turning off my cell phone immediate resulted in my hearing "N6708R, how do you read?" to which my reply was, "Loud and clear, now." Meigs ground had tried to respond to my request several times, the transmission was blocked whenever I had the phone turned on.

    So, while such interference is rare, it can and does occur from time to time. Do you really want to risk having a Boeing 747 miss a call from the tower to hold short for crossing traffic while taxiing to or from the runway just so you can call your wife and let her know the plane is about to take off/just landed, or just so you can edit that Word document one more time prior to takeoff?
  • Does not matter (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ninjadoug ( 609521 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:04PM (#4522715)
    They will Ban them again, not for safety reasons but 'for the comfort of other passangers'. I would choose an airline with a 'no-cellphone' policy. especially on long haul flights.
  • by Amadaeus ( 526475 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:05PM (#4522722) Homepage

    So radio signals aren't to blame for screwing with the navigational and computer systems of commercial aircraft. This development basically contradicts everything major Airlines have said to prevent the use of mobile phones on flights.

    More frigtening would be the prospect of electronic companies develping "airplane-safe" electronics, such as radio-signal free CD players, PDAs, laptops, etc. What's to stop airlines from demanding passengers from purchasing "safe" products and completely banning mainstream electronics on planes, and in return making us pay more money for redundent electronics? The development of such items would be a cash cow, targeting those who travel often, but are routinely forced to turn off our MD Walkmans and laptops because the flight attendent thinks it's going to screw with the electronics in the cockpit.

    Just think: "I'm sorry sir, but that's not a United Airlines Sony walkman. We can't permit you using that on the flight sir. Please go to the airport gift shop and buy a $400 new walkman."

  • by TheCodeFoundry ( 246594 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:06PM (#4522734)
    Funny, you fly in a Gulfstream or other smaller Lear jet type planes and the CEOs aka "rich people" are talking up a storm on their cellphones. Why is it you can use your cell phone on a Gulfstream but not a 727 or 737 or other big jet? They are less shielded than a Gulfstream?
  • Re:Control? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:11PM (#4522795)
    Slashdot troll #214: It doesn't beg the question [intrepidsoftware.com], it raises the question.
  • A few things.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by yoink! ( 196362 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:11PM (#4522799) Homepage Journal
    My first question is, does this mean we have to buy new mobile phones? Will all of them be compatible with this forced frequency range? I know my current phone, like many others, works on the following frequencies: 800Mhz for analog and digital, and 1.9GHz for digital. Are they going to force my phone into analog mode? Etc. And how, may I ask will an external system limit my cell phone's power? Are planes going to be specially shielded in some way, because as far as I know a phone doesn't regulate it's own output power, though of that I'm not absolutely certain. Another thing that seems to be left out of the article, is that even if it was possible to lower output and use a few phones safely on a plane, imagine what would happen if even half the compliment of, say 200 passengers, have their cell phones... that's a lot of radio signal emission in a very small area. Planes haven't exactly been known for their system's reliability when exposed to other sources of RF interference. My phone for example emits tons of interference, I can it hear when it's lying next to the phone (landline), it affects un-shielded audio equipment and it has even reduced a TV hooked up to an Xbox to simply static while I was talking, and the thing is a brand new model! I don't see how something like this could really fly, or at least the article is too vague to answer any of my questions.
  • by zulux ( 112259 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:13PM (#4522815) Homepage Journal
    I've actually chose to sit near the planes engines recently, just to enjoy the increased din.

    People don't talk when the plane cabin is really noisy - they shut the hell up beacuse they have a hard time understanding each other, and I can get some sleep.

    Especually annoying are people who come form any country remotly close to the equator - for some dumb reason, all those cultures TALK REALLY FUCKING LOUD. WITH THEIR HANDS WAVING. And they jaber about stupid things - LIKE THEIR CHICKNENS OR THEIR LOWERED IMPALA. OR THEIR QUICKY MART.

    So for maximum enjoyment of your flight - sit right begind where the jets are attached, next to the skinny Iniut and the blonde Swede - If they do start blabing, at least it will be interesting.

  • by NeonSpirit ( 530024 ) <mjhodge&gmail,com> on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:13PM (#4522824) Homepage
    This is a real issue, way back when I was in University the Student Union had a radio station. They did not have a registered frequency, such things have only recently become available in the UK, so istead they used induction loops which staid within leagal rage limits. However one of the buildings which was metal framed with glass paneling did not recieve the broadcasts, even though loops were clearly visable. It may have been a Urban Myth, but it was said that when live the harmonics broadcast conflited with a distress frequency in the North Sea.
  • Re:deal? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nuxx ( 10153 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:24PM (#4522911) Homepage
    The problem I have with people incessantly talking on cell phones next to me is the fact that most people tend to talk loud. Did you ever novice that people seem to find it necessary to practically yell into a telephone, despite the fact that they typically talk in a normal voice? With the condenser mics on today's phones you can practically whisper and still be heard just fine.
  • Re:Am I the only one (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:32PM (#4522992)
    Nope. You're not the only one that hates cell phones. I think they are morally objectionable...especially when the cell companies can (and hence probably do) track your movements.

    I for one refuse to knowingly talk to anyone using a cell phone. If someone calls me on a cell I'll tell them to call me back on a real phone. Giving me a cell # is no different than not giving me a phone#.

    How about the current initiative to bill the caller for the cellular access charges? That means I'll have additional charges on my bill for accidently calling cell phones? Does that also mean that the phone company will charge me for the privilege of blocking outgoing calls to cell phones?

    Stupid hateful contraptions.
  • Consider this (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Enocasiones ( 563499 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:35PM (#4523010)
    If it weren't for the ubiquitous cellphones: 1) another plane would have crashed in washington

    Who tells you the plane didnt crash where it did because of all those people talking on their mobiles and interfering with the plane's instruments?

  • Re:Cost? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:40PM (#4523048)
    But then why not just leave the ban in effect and force people to use the existing credit-card-activated air phones?

    If they're really going to implement a technology to "block" cellphones, they'll probably leave it turned on all the time, even when you're at the gate. That will force you to "roam" on their network at $3.99 per minute, even if you are in your own service area.

    On a lot of flights, adding up departure and arrival times, you spend a total of 40 minutes or so sitting at the gate (especially if you're sitting near the back of the plane). You see a lot of cellphone calls going on during this time. The airlines probably see this as a huge waste of a captive revenue source.

  • Burden of Proof (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Shadow Wrought ( 586631 ) <shadow.wrought@g ... minus herbivore> on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:58PM (#4523240) Homepage Journal
    I have read several comments along the lines of "there's no proof that cell phones are harmful," or that airlines are "overreacting". The burden of proof does not lie with the airlines to prove that they are harmful. Rather the burden of proof lies with the insecure yokel who cannot let go of the phone for a couple of hours.

    Until it is proven, conclusively, that electronic devices cannot, under any circumstance, affect in any way shape or form the performance of the aircraft's systems, then they should be banned.

    On a final note, doesn't anyone think about scale? ala "My laptop shouldn't cause any problems," or "My cell phone shouldn't be an issue." What about a plane full of cell phones, PDA's, laptops, and gameboys? One person using an electronic device may not cause a problem, but maybe a hundred of them stuck in a metal tube a couple hundred feet long might.

    I think that while most people haven't thought of this, the airlines have.
  • Re:the deal (Score:2, Interesting)

    by thetonka ( 79890 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @01:02PM (#4523282)
    there's the more subtle rudeness of ignoring the people who are actually *present*.

    And that is the basis for the problem most people have with cell phones. They feel left out. Well tough, not everything is about YOU! These people are the ones who also think it is rude for other people to have conversations in a language they do not know. I have had people comment on how this is rude, and they could not even understand that it was non of their business. People in the US are the worst. They feel they are entitle to being included in EVERYTHING. We now even have lawsuits to force schools to change basketball so that kids in wheelchairs have an equal oppurtunity to be on the varsity team.

    There definitely is something wrong with society, but it is NOT the cell phones, or most of the people using them.

    Thetonka
    DrunkBunch [drunkbunch.com]
  • by tuxlove ( 316502 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @01:15PM (#4523389)
    I thought that a plane cabin was the one place I would never have to deal with people who won't quit talking on the phone."

    For $10/minute, you won't be bothered much, I'd warrant.
  • Re:thicker skin (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @02:02PM (#4523766)
    'Now, my experience with people who get annoyed by people talking on cells is thus; they are simply annoyed by people carrying on a conversation with another party that they cannot see/hear. Perhaps it looks unnatural seeing someone going about their business talking to noone, but the personal feelings of the annoyed are, nonetheless, irrational.'


    I had an experience like that once. I was at a McDonald's having a little dinner while I talked to my Dad on the phone. He lives 2,0000 miles away so I don't get a whole lot of time to talk with him. This old woman kept glaring at me. She mouthed a not-so-subtle comment about how I needed to get off the phone and eat my dinner. (no, I wasn't talking too loud.) She just had this thing about cell phone use.

    I think that she was mad at me because other people with cell phones had riled her up. I got the feeling it wasn't me specifically she had a problem with, but other people had annoyed her and I was 'one of them'.

    I'm not a big fan of being guilty of other people's crimes. I take extra care not to be annoying with my phone. As a matter of fact, right now my phone is on a low ring mode and set to vibrate. When it rings, my cubicle neighbor can't even hear it. I let my voice-mail get the call if I'm in the middle of a convo. I make a point of putting my phone on silent at a movie. I don't know about most places, but the theaters here ask you to make them silent.

    As you can see, I put a great deal of effort into not being a nuisance. So hopefully you can understand why I don't take too kindly to stories about how some public places (like malls) are considering the jamming of cell phones. That'd essentially 'ground' the offenders, but what about all the people out there who aren't being offensive?

    Half of the population of the US has a cell phone. If 110 million cell phones were ringing, I would understand the problem. We all know the number's nowhere near that high. In other words: Find a better solution.
  • Re:Cost? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @03:06PM (#4524268) Homepage
    this is old tech.... go into soldier field in Chicago... you will go from seeing a Digital signal level to analog and ROAM instantly.. they block and force you to use their cell site... which charges almost $5.00 a minute! I know, I was snagged by this 4 years ago at a trade show...

    the bastards.
  • Re:Does not matter (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 24, 2002 @03:24PM (#4524412)
    If you fly a lot I'd suggest a good set of Noise Cancelling Headphones. I fly all the time so they have become a must have for me.

    Incidently, I used to get flak from the stewards when I used my Sony's but no one seems to mind if I use the new bose units http://www.bose.com/noise_reduction/qc_headset/

    From what I've been told, apparently the Bose units are FAA Approved. I didn't know that when I bought them, I just needed to replace my dead Sony's and the Bose store was on the way to the airport.

    These things are GREAT, no more Crying Baby's, Engine Noise, talkative passengers, etc.

  • by zavyman ( 32136 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @04:38PM (#4524908)
    Wrong!

    It is the other way around. The FCC has done studies on traditional analog cellphones and determined that they should not be used by anyone on board an aircraft because of the wide interference that usage would cause. Similar studies were not performed for PCS and other digital networks, so there is no FCC regulation against using them in flight.

    The FAA, on the otherhand still bans any cell phone use, believing that any phone may cause interference, mainly based upon hearsay and conjecture; under no controlled circumstances has interference ever been shown to occur in flight. IIRC, there are some 40 or 50 incidents a year where pilots believe that they fell victim to some sort of electronic interference, almost exclusively from laptops.

    There was a congressional report a couple of years ago on this, I wish someone would post the link.

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