Toyota to Move to All Hybrid Vehicles By 2012 660
ftumph writes "Toyota has announced that
all their vehicles will be gas-electric hybrids by 2012. The plan is to eliminate the current $3,000 per vehicle additional cost for hybrid engines through mass production."
Cool (Score:0, Informative)
Re:I think... (Score:2, Informative)
It is like fusion, they know how to get the reaction going but have yet to develop a way to feed it without killing the reaction.
Re:Alot has to happen... (Score:5, Informative)
Not quite true... (Score:5, Informative)
Can't find the link, but here's the WSJ article re: same:
Toyota Still Plans to Sell 300,000 Hybrid Vehicles a Year By 2005
Friday October 25, 5:19 pm ET
By Norihiko Shirouzu, Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
DETROIT -- Toyota Motor Corp. reaffirmed it aims to sell a total of 300, 000 super-efficient, electric-gasoline hybrid vehicles a year by 2005.
Toyota's reaffirmation came in response to a news report earlier this week that said the auto maker plans to use hybrid engines in all vehicles by 2012 to increase fuel efficiency and reduce tailpipe emissions. The report also said Toyota won't sell 300,000 hybrids annually until 2007.
Kevin Webber, a Toyota spokesman in Ann Arbor, Mich., said the report was " inaccurate," which he said stemmed from a "misinterpretation" of comments in Japanese made by a Toyota executive.
Mr. Webber said it is "technically infeasible" to use hybrid systems in all vehicles Toyota sells around the world in 10 years. He said Toyota continues to aim to sell 300,000 hybrids a year by about 2005.
Last month, Toyota's president Fujio Cho said the No. 1 Japanese auto maker will expand its lineup of gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles into larger vehicles, such as midsized sport-utility vehicles and minivans, as it tries to sell a total of 300,000 hybrids a year by 2005.
Cho said Toyota "will expand hybrid systems into an array of models, including larger vehicles."
Already, Toyota recently has begun selling in Japan a hybrid minivan called the Estima. In the U.S., Toyota currently sells only one hybrid, the small Prius car, while in Japan its lineup includes the Prius and a Crown luxury car equipped with a so-called "mild" hybrid system, in addition to the Estima.
-Norihiko Shirouzu, The Wall Street Journal
Re:Alot has to happen... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:So more prices! (Score:2, Informative)
These vehicles use gasoline just like ordinary cars. It's just that the engine output is not used directly to drive the car, but to run a generator which in turn runs an electric engine. The advantage is that you can have a smaller and more efficient engine for the same power output at the wheels.
Re:Wankel (Score:1, Informative)
Hybrid cars a great, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Now that's going to be exciting. I highly recommend reading the site. Also if I read the FAQ correctly it says that the vehicles will cost between $8000 and $10,000.
An interesting fact is that the air that comes out of the Air Car is cleaner that when it entered the car. Not only is it zero pollution, but it cleans the air!
Re:small surpise it's toyota... (Score:2, Informative)
Battery Availibility (Score:3, Informative)
On a hybrid the performance and mileage will degrade over the years without this replacement part. This will limit the life of the car and definitely reduce it's value to a second owner.
They are interesting but need to have replaceable batteries. A TDI engine instead of a gasoline engine would also help.
Re:um... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:This is good news, but costs far outweigh benef (Score:5, Informative)
it costs $6000-7000 to replace them and they are not as powerful now. But maybe
all this will change by 2012.
Where'd you get that information?? Honda is giving an 8-year 80K mile warranty [hondacars.com] on its Hybrid batteries. Their claim is replacement at around 10 years, and about $1000 at today's prices ($1K price told to me by a Honda dealer), which will probably come down as the first hybrids need their replacements.
US will need to wait for cleaner diesel fuel (Score:3, Informative)
Since the EPA will require drastic reductions of such compounds in a few years, by then we could see the PD130 and PD150 engines found on European-market Golfs and Passats show up on the US market. Can you imagine a diesel-electric hybrid powertrain on a VW Golf getting fuel mileage that would make the diesel-powered VW Lupo seem like a fuel-guzzler in comparison? It could happen as early as 2006.
Re:Not quite true... (Score:5, Informative)
1) I paid no sales tax at purchase
2) I get a $2000 tax deduction this tax year from federal
3) I get up to a $1350 tax *credit* from state of MD this year
4) Many states will let hybrids in the HOV lanes no matter how many occupants there are
5) Some states such as CO will let Hybrid owners use toll roads for free
6) You just feel like a better person by driving one.. I can't explain it, but you do.
CVT is fine, it's really the first time I had experienced it, but it works fine and makes a lot of sense. Remember that CVT wasn't introduced in the insights until recently, so he might not have it. Probably the biggest thing to get used to with the honda hybrids is when the engine shuts off when you pull up to a light. It's kind of neat though actually.. It gets VERY silent in the car, but it starts up fine when you let go of the break.. The battery acts as the starter. In fact it does that when you start the car up initially as well, it doesn't matter how long you hold the key in the starting position, it just starts automatically.
I love mine so far. And some of the benefits and the feeling you get of owning one is/are quite good.
I'm currently getting about 41MPG.. I've heard many times though that you don't start to see the 47MPG figure until the engine gets a little 'worn in', or perhaps it's really until you adapt your driving style. Trust me, with the ASST/CHRG indicator on your dashboard.. It WILL change the way you drive
This post was a bit of a jumbled mess, but I hope it helped you out.
Cheers,
-JD-
Re:This is good news, but costs far outweigh benef (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is good news, but costs far outweigh benef (Score:2, Informative)
The Toyota Prius has a 8 year/100,000mile warranty on the hybrid components of the Prius in the US (which include the battery). (A new battery pack currently costs about US$4950, although individual bad cells can be replaced and not just the entire pack... Plus, with higher production, the battery costs will come down. (Toyota has 2 hybrid cars, a minivan, and a bus in Japan at the moment.)) There's a Prius taxi in Vancouver (Canada) that has over 284,000 km. on his Prius (24/7 usage), and hasn't had any battery trouble or had to replace the battery...
Also, Honda has an 8 year/80,000mile warranty on the battery in the US on both the Insight and the Civic Hybrid.
Re:Finally! (Score:2, Informative)
Also I'll note this prototype sportscar by Honda/Acura, show at the Tokyo Motor Show:
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automoti
".... The concept car used a 300-horsepower V-6 coupled with a 100-horsepower electric motor to give it the performance of a 400-horsepower muscle car with excellent fuel economy.
Where are the big cars? (or at least mid-sized..) (Score:2, Informative)
The reason that I ask this is not because I'm looking for a bigger, less fuel efficient vechile (quite the opposite... having to pay less gas money would be nice), but because I need a bigger vechile since I'm rather tall. Being that I'm 6 feet 3 inches tall, there's a lot of cars on the market that I just plain can't get into to drive. I was at a subaru dealership once a short while ago and with basically every car that they made, I could not get my legs underneath the steering wheel to even attempt to drive them.
Basically, I wouldn't mind trying out the new hybrid cars, but honestly now... does this interior [toyota.com] look like something that someone who's over 6 feet tall could fit in comfortably? (now granted I haven't seen one in person yet, so I could be wrong. But it doesn't look roomy at all to me.) So while I like this idea very much, (I think that hybrids are the way to go, given that there's a well established infrastructure for the gas stations, and you get the benifits of an electric engine without having to carry heavy batteries around that constantly need to be plugged in to charge) I think I'm going to have to wait on it until they at least start making some mid-sized cars.
Re:Prius Experience / Misconceptions / Mild or Ful (Score:2, Informative)
But, I find that most of a car's noise does not come from the engine in the first place. I'm sure a brand new car has all the seals in tack and is sound-tight but how silent will this car be after 50,000 miles? How much wind-noise is there now? How many spot welds will fail and cause the panels to flex in the future?
When I worked in the car industry (1991-2000) I know that car were designed to last 10 years/100,000 miles. Everything from engine wear to paint thickness was taken into account. The law also states that parts must be supplied for 10 years after the final production car leaves the line. Now, rust and mechanical failure normally end a car's life, so how long is the life expectancy on a car like this that has less engine wear?
Re:Electricity Taxes (Score:2, Informative)
At any rate, your idea for better rails is a good one, but it has flaws. For instance, it's very possible that more rails wouldn't affect the amount of big rigs on the road. Trucks are still needed to get goods to the warehouse, unless you have a rail system that goes *everywhere*. That would eliminate the efficiency of a rail system.
Less trucks on the road would be safer, but at the moment there's really no way around it.
The Honda Civic Hybrid (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Finally! (Score:2, Informative)
Plenty of speed (top speed is just over 100MPH, but that's illegal in most of the US), no problem on hills (it eats it up - plenty of reports of Prius going over the Grapevine or up Mt. Washington), plenty of passing power (electric motor for instant-assist), lots of fun to drive, tight turning radius, and wonderful brakes (considered "grabby" by those who haven't driven one before). it matches my personality.
With the exception of hauling and towing capacity, the Prius can do all that you ask of a truck. You can always record the sound of a V8 engine and play it on the standard cassette deck... and this from a family car (compact).
Re:Finally! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Electricity Taxes (Score:4, Informative)
Nope, sorry. I'm afraid heavy trucks are not the reason for the need of road upkeep.
Consider all the roads out there where trucks are forbidden, they still need regular maintenance and repairs with about the same regularity as major highways that carry trucks.
The fact is that road denegration is mostly due to weather and environmental changes. The ground settles differently (usually based on nearby development) and cracks appear. Trees grow and their roots crack streets. The temperature changes, the road expands and contracts, and cracks appear. These cracks fill with water and potholes appear. That's just the way it is, and without breakthroughs in paving technology (like tarmac), maintenance costs will still be high.
As for using rail shipments, that's a fine idea, and I believe that about as much tonnage is shipped by rail these days as by trucks. The trouble is that with rail you can seldom get there from here. And too, you have to maintain rail lines (recall the Amtrak crash in Maryland this summer due to overheated poorly mainained track?).
I hate like driving with trucks as much as the next guy, and there's probably a size of truck that ballances environmental, safety, and shipping concerns which has yet to be found; but in the meantime trucks are often the best (if not only) way to efficiently transmit goods.
Re:Electricity Taxes (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Finally! (Score:2, Informative)
This whole thing is just GM's way of saying to the Federal Government, "Gee, look how hard we are working on this nifty zero emissions technology! Why in the world would you want to raise CAFE standards now, when we'll have this nifty thing real-soon-now?"
It's a bogus gimmick and will never ship. I'm not saying the technology isn't feasible, just that GM is using it as a ploy. Rather like how the broadcasters used HDTV to keep their free spectrum but really were less than interested in actually deploying it.
Toyota and Honda have some credibility: they are shipping hybrids _now_. GM is full of crap.
Re:Where are the big cars? (or at least mid-sized. (Score:4, Informative)
Try the Prius, I think you may be surprised. While the Prius looks somewhat like the Toyota Echo, it's quite a bit bigger (and nicer inside). My 6ft+ brother-in-law has driven ours with no problems or complaints about room. I'm only 5'9", so I can't speak from personal experience.
Ford is coming out with a hybrid Escape in December (if they're still on schedule), and Dodge has talked about a hybrid Durango (though I've heard discussion that idea was shelved). So if the Prius doesn't work for you, there are bigger vehicles on the way.
Re:Alot has to happen... (Score:3, Informative)
If I'm out in the middle of Idaho and the car breaks down, no local mechanic is going to know how to fix the damned thing. One of the selling points about the Prius was that Toyota would fly someone out to my location (at their expense) and fix it. So I could virtually roam anywhere.
If they want to do a complete switch-over are they going to provide this type of service for all their vehicles? Most likely not, especially if they are going to mass produce the vehicles and distribute like they do with their current non-hybrids. If they did have this same guarantee, that would be great. I'm thinking that they might have to train the Dealership mechanics and if you get stuck out somewhere you have to tow it to the nearest dealer. That's inconvenient. What would be best, in my opinion, is to offer a class to train independent mechanics (not affiliated with the dealership) on how to fix the hybrid vehicles when they break down. This would resolve some of the inconvenience issues.
Re:Finally! (Score:4, Informative)
Being an American, born and true, the part of your post that bothers me the most is the slam that (paraphrase) "Only a TRUE American would buy a piece of shit, gas guzzling, below sub-par performance on the world stage, cheaply made, heavy, highly inefficient engine, fall apart after 100,000 miles, American made car." For example, my fiancee (who is also American pure and true) just purchased a German engineered, German manufactured, and German produced Audi A6 2.8 Quattro. Every American made car is a piece of shit when you own a car as beautifully made and engineered as that vehicle. It makes you laugh or grin every time you see any car engineered in America.
The truth of the matter is not the Americanism of buying a POS American engineered vehicle. It is the American business model...Make the car as cheaply as possible and sell it for as much as possible. And if you can't sell the car on merits, start calling the properly and better engineered vehicles names...Rice burners, Nazi mobiles, etc. etc. I am an engineer with a deep passion for World Rally Sport. Unlike what MOST Americans think, it doesn't take any talent to make a car go fast in a straight line. Sure, your Corvette goes somewhat fast (that is a matter of opinion), but try to corner with it or bring it onto any kind of race or track which isn't an oval, and your Corvette shows just how much of a front heavy, over-rated piece of shit it is.
The only thing that is American about you and your post is the shear ignorance of the American people is shining though. If you understood world class performance, anything short of an AWD (All Wheel Drive), turbocharged (single or twin), 4 cylinder (inline or horizontally opposed), or even 6 cylinder, is simply a complete POS. Your attitude is what leads people to believe that NASCAR is actually a race, much less a sport. NASCAR is simply American white trash soap opera. You put one of those oval running, RWD, POS American vehicles on a real race course and you will see just how fast they get laughed off the face of the Earth.
You have an American V8 or V6 or I4 car that can out accelerate, out corner, and out perform a Subaru WRX, WRX STi or a Mitsubishi Evo IV, V, VI, VII or the rally edition Audi Quattro (for a small example) and I will call you a liar straight to your face. And then laugh as I leave you in the dust. I have personally seen a Subaru WRX race a modified Chevy Camero SS and the Chevy lost. I would have died laughing if that little race involved any real cornering or tracks. Oh, and you can buy the Subaru WRX and Mitsubishi EVO 7 (available in 2003) in the United States. Cadillac tried to race in the French Le Mans 24 Hour and got laughed off the track by the Audi direct injection race car. Cadillac never showed up again. Ford of Europe is the only car company with an American tie that has ever been able to perform on a world circuit rally race course. And the best part is is that the Ford car isn't even American engineered. In order for Ford to compete, they had to buy another countries more competent automotive engineers and put the Ford label on their car. That is hilarious. Then Ford goes and claims it to be a Ford and American, when the only thing American about the car is the Ford label on the hood.
And as far as big trucks go, considering that the world does not revolve around the United States, how in the world does the other 6.1 billion people on the Earth survive without big American trucks? Sure, they are useful...for roughly 1% of the American population. The rest are simply used because it has been determined that large trucks imply roughness, ruggedness, outdoorsness, individuality, superiority, safety, and masculinity. None of the above are true. I have seen plenty of trucks and SUV's tipped on their tops or sides because the driver (where I live in the US) was trying to avoid a deer at about 55/65 MPH (and these were not all Ford Explorers). Not even one car though. So, safety is a total joke. 4WD...right. According to a recent article in the Wall Street Journal, only 1% of the population has ever used their 4WD if they had it. It didn't take a survey to tell me that. I go to work every single day and in our parking lot at work alone I see almost 25 big, American trucks...most of them driven by fat, short, women who smoke who have never really used their trucks in their entire lives. The other ones are used by desk jockey, middle aged men, none of whom live outside of the city (my engineering assistant just purchased a new Chevy Blazer the other week...and she lives 3 blocks from here).
All that your post showed is that apparently the only TRUE Americans are the dumb, uneducated, V8 driving, RWD morons (or FWD morons who try to race me from the stoplights in their Saturns..ha ha ha) that everyone else in the world still laughs at. I am American. I am educated. I look for quality in engineering and I have yet to find any quality, ingenuity, or competent engineering in any American engineered automobiles. But, one thing that makes me sick is that American's pride themselves on being stupid and ignorant and that the world revolves around the US in all aspects. I consider myself more American than you because I can admit my countries faults, admit that other countries and other engineers do things completely better, and still love my country for the things that are good about it, and educate the uneducated in my country (enlightening the V8 driving morons among others). You should be American and educate yourself and stopping thinking the entire world revolves around you and your US-centric attitude (especially about American automotive engineering). It's all about better automotive engineering, which the rest of the world knows that US has the worst. Oh, that new revolutionary GM diesel engine. That's right. It's made my Isuzu. Ooops.
Re:Finally! (Score:2, Informative)
Before I found my current occupation I spent a good deal of time as a courier. With guys that drive their cars over the worst roads, in all conditions, many with several hundred thousand miles on them. I've seen plenty of good & bad in both foreign and domestic products. The issue is not as simple as American Bad - Foreign Good. Popularity isn't the best judge either. Several of the most popular are POS as well. They tend not to drive SUV's or Luxury cars, but the vehicles they do drive get subjected to every kind of abuse possible so if problems are present they arrive quicker in that environment.
That being said, if I was buying a fleet of vehicles that was going to be subjected to a real workload, hybrids are the last thing I would look at. I can already see people having to buy starters, replace racks of costly batteries, and most of them appear to be built somewhat on the flimsy side. In particular the model from Honda.
In terms of cost, it looks like a losing proposition to me at this point.
Since we don't have good Hybrids yet... Here is my review of the best and worst out there from the standpoint of severe workload, reliability, total cost of ownership, and utility.
The Good:
Ford Ranger w/ V6 3.0, 4.0 -- The little 4 is incapable of being decent. That being said, the other two engines are workhorses. I know drivers with 450,000K on them. My Ranger has over 300K, and other than a recall on a steering hose I haven't had major repairs.
Ford F-150 V8, V6 4.0. Good truck, not very comfy unless you spend the extra cash -- but reliable, way over powered with the V8 and will last forever.
Ford Vans with the V8. If you need a full size van, there isn't a lot of choice if you want it to be reliable. It has issues with two things: Front brakes, and power steering hoses. It also has an annonying vibration sound at 70MPH on the cargo versions, just the way the acoustics worked out. However, it's miles above anything in the competition -- foreign or domestic in it's class.
Dodge Intrepid - Very cushy car. Cruise forever. Doesn't seem to suffer the reliability problems either.
Dodge Caravan 00 and beyond. The older ones were garbage. They got it right now. These are cushy, have lots of power, and wont kill you on repairs *unless you wreck it.
Subaru Forrester. Expensive, and the maintainence can be high -- but the few I know that have them have had good luck. The manual transmission is geared horrible for anything other than pulling though. Get the auto. Subaru has made some great cars over the years. It's nice to see a foreign maker striving for low tech solutions to make them reliable and still integrating stuff we all want. I have good things to say about a few others in their line.
Chevrolet Silverado. Want a truck to take punishment and keep on ticking? Yeah, it suprised me too. Even they have a couple good things. Just not many. Think of them as Hyundai USA.
Nissan Fronteir -- Yeah, it gets terrible mileage, but it is reliable. Repair cost are higher for what you do have to fix. It's my favorite of the import pickups.
Toyota Camry -- Just an all around good vehicle. You'll get shocked at the cost if you ever have a problem, but you shouldn't have many problems. Parts are a *lot* stronger than comparable imports.
The Bad:
Honda Accord -- You would think this would be a great car, people love them...Till they have to fix them. Like buying suspension components? How about steering components? Drive one of these in the city for awhile. Engine? That'll last forever. But don't expect to avoid paying $3000-6000 every 120K on suspension and steering parts. Several years have a severe rust problem. Hydroplaning is also a major issue. Notice all the ones with front end damage? Death & severe injury because of handling quirks is not acceptable.
Dodge Dakota & Dogde Ram -- I've known more guys with engine failures in these vehicles. Especially in the first couple years of the Ram. Engine failure at 30K & 70K is not acceptable. Also known people to have to use a lemon statute.
Hyundai Excel.
Dodge Neon - Multiple engine failures at less than 60K. Periphial parts like: power steering pump, brake master cylinder, water pump, starter -- constant problems.
Most Kias. The engines are suprisingly solid. I don't know a lot of people who had to do any engine work. But they took a lesson from Chevrolet on supporting parts and try to make up profit margins in their service dept. That being said, the Kia powered Aspire was probably the best for the money in the econobox dept in it's day. They have the ability to build good things and future offerings should improve.
Most Mitsubishi products. Blown engine seals? Burning oil? You probably own one. No offense to the people that build them in Normal Illinois, but your product is a POS. I have never known a courier to have any Mitsubishi and not have major problems. Never mattered if it was an SUV, a econo box, a sports car...It just doesn't work out.
Nissan Altima -- This car seems to have everything going for it. Decent performance, it's cushy, seems well built. Okay, if you live someplace that never snows or gets colder than 33F
Chevrolet -- Why list a model? I don't have a lot good to say about most of their stuff. They are still using parts off the rack from the 70's. How reliable was your car in 1970? Engines are "okay", suspension parts are crude and usually hold up
Other than their full size trucks there isn't a lot good to say. Their S-10 is one of the worst POS on the road today.
Ford Escort Wagons -- Sell it before it gets 70K on it and you'll walk away a very happy person. I know plenty of people with no substantial problems, and a few with nothing but wear and tear issues. This just wasn't designed for the long term. Handling quirks as well. Not unusual for a station wagon, but one is unacceptable to me. Lack of stopping power!
Ford Focus -- Same thing as above, but a lot more recalls and most of them serious.
Mixed Bag:
Honda Civic -- The interior will fall apart, but mechanically it will run a long long time. It still suffers from steering component failure and far too frequent front suspension problems. If they just used some tougher parts in those areas this would be moved into the "good". Plow is a problem, but not as severe as the Accord & Altima.
Toyota Full Size Pickup - It's a decent ride, but it will kill you on routine maintainence alone. Not quite as good of a workhorse as the F150.
Volkswagons -- Yeah, you remember the Rabbit problems. So do I. They got better immediately after and the new ones are great. Even the severely under-powered econobox Fox was a stone cold reliable car. I know a courier who has one with over one million miles on it. Over 950,000 of those were commercial miles. He gave the car to his daughter a couple years ago. She is still driving it. Why this is mixed? High price, plus extremely expensive parts. If you plan on keeping your car a long time, this is probably the one to get if you can afford the maintainence. Example
Ford Explorer -- okay, the new one is lower and wider, and it has a much better suspension. The old one was clunky and crude. It also had handling flaws that could get you killed. (As do most SUV's). I'm not overly impressed with it, it's not a comfortable ride, but from a reliability standpoint it was a pretty good vehicle. I wouldn't buy it, but you might like it.
It pays to take a look back as well. Think about the cars of the 70's and 80's. By the scale I'm using not a single car produced in that period would make it into the good catagory. This is an area where it truly is getting better. Cars last longer, hold up better, many of them have more power and are far less crude machines. Detroit was exceedingly slow to get the message, and so was Japan. I think they got the message now.
Even if you never plan on buying a hybrid, and can't see yourself in an econobox
Re:Less oil dependency (Score:3, Informative)
I suspect the question you want to know is - how much of our oil supply is imported from the Middle East?
Roughly 40%.
Cut fuel consumption by cars by 50% and you've drastically reduced how much oil has to be imported from the Middle East (not eliminated - oil is used for far more than just gasoline).
Re:Powerballs (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure if this is the case. NaOH is USED frequently in the industry because of it's strong alkaline properties. It's subject to Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) as illustrated in the Industry Overview Of Construction [epa.gov]. I'm not familiar with it's exact purpose in the industry, perhaps somebody can enlighten me, but I'm not quite so sure that it'd be a waste product in it's pure form, it'll very likely be diluted.
Second, what happens to the dilution in the waste when the NaH is being created?
Third, they plan to 'heat' the NaOH in order to turn it into solid NaH. How would they heat it? Heating costs energy. Is this possibly a similar scam as to use corn based ethanol to power engines? (everybody knows ofcourse that corn needs an abundance of nitrate rich fertilizer, which in turn requires a lot of energy, eg. oil, to create).
I do however like the NaH + H2O and tank idea as a means to safely transport H2. Down the line, the 'waste' product of this (ie. NaOH dissolved in water) could be used as non-diluted transmission medium for creating new NaOH as the previous poster said.
Re:hybrids are deeply cynical marketing ploy (Score:3, Informative)
As mentioned in previous posts, US diesel fuel is pretty dirty stuff - you need only need to take a look at metropolitian buses to see that.
For the US, perhaps not Europe, hybrids are the best solution to an emissions, not an efficiency problem. Sure, we'd love to increase fuel economy here in the states, but given that gas is $1.59 in most places, we're not hurting if our cars don't break 50mpg either. Where we do have serious problems is in the sheer number of cars in traffic - if we can kill emissions while people are doing the hour-long stop'n'go to and from work, that's a lot of fuel that stays in the car, rather than getting thrown into the local airstream.