Segway Banned In San Francisco 1027
bhsurfer writes "The city of San Francisco has banned the Segway [CNN.com] from it's sidewalks before they've even arrived. Apparently Santa Cruz, Oakland and San Mateo are considering a ban as well. What a bunch of spoilsports...or are they? Any thoughts on this?" According to the article, hiring high-powered lobbyists may have backfired. but the city claims safety concerns are behind the decision.
Not sure how they could ban something... (Score:4, Insightful)
I hope they banned bikes on their sidewalks too... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's Insane... (Score:2, Insightful)
Bleh, fucking lame ass government stifling innovation because of imagined phantoms. Lets keep things exactly the way they are, and then we don't have to worry about the unknown, nothing to fear (except for car crashes...)
I hate this preemptive rulemaking bullshit. If something causes a problem out of proportion to it's benefit then ban it. Certainly they shouldn't be banned until they have been shown to be dangerous!
because... (Score:1, Insightful)
New Technology Apprehensions... (Score:5, Insightful)
Judging from everything I've read about the Segway, it'll be the car, of course. So why don't they ban cars in San Francisco, too? Because use of cars is too widespread, and the public would be outraged if you tried to take them away.
If the Segway's all the hype suggests, then maybe in years hence the new machine will become as entrenched in daily life as the car (...assuming San Fran doesn't become a national trendsetter on the issue, and kill the Segway before it's given a chance). Until then you can expect this sort of thing. Just imagine how many people are going to worry about the first supersonic turbo-boostered flying rocket cars, you know?
Re:I hope they banned bikes on their sidewalks too (Score:5, Insightful)
as for the segway, i think they should wait for it to be a problem before wasting their time banning it....i mean, how many of these things did they anticipate being on the sidewalks anyway?
Pavements (sorry - sidewalks) (Score:2, Insightful)
Reasonable... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:That's Insane... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I hope they banned bikes on their sidewalks too (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's Insane... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't understand how the Segway, which weighs 69lbs can be safer than a skateboard, or rollerblades. I think that taking the laissez-faire attitude you propose might be difficult in a litigious culture. What if someone really gets hurt by a careless Segway user? Who pays? The temptation might be to sue the richest entity involved, namely the city which is responsible for the sidewalk. This way, the city can say that they did what they could to prevent the problem.
Re:That's Insane... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I hope they banned bikes on their sidewalks too (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, most major metropolitan cities do have laws against riding bikes on sidewalks.
I live in Philadelphia, and here it is indeed against the law to ride your bike on the sidewalk. In fact, I've seen several people get ticketed by the police for violating that law. If you go to center city Philadelphia, you will see bike lanes on the sides of the streets, next to the car lanes.
I would have no problem seeing Segways in bike lanes, but on the sidewalk? No way. They are equally as dangerous as bikes, if not more so (Segways don't have brakes).
Re:because... (Score:3, Insightful)
Is 30 MPH a number you have a reference for?
Re:That's Insane... (Score:3, Insightful)
More likely, until they figure out the most lucrative way to tax them.
Danger Mobile (Score:5, Insightful)
The operator was driving down the street at night.
No lights. No reflectors. Grey vehicle out in traffic and no helmet on operator.
I'd ban the damned things too.
Re:That's Insane... (Score:3, Insightful)
for the $5G you spent on a segway you could've gotten a really nice bike and have already started working off most of that beer gut.
Re:segways on hills (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A Couple Notes (Score:3, Insightful)
So the only machines allowed are for people that could not move around if it wasnt for machines, because it would be cruel to render them unable to get out of their homes. But fortunately the numbers of the disabled are not large enough to cause problems.
I would not really mind if it took me axtra 5 minutes to get to the subway, if it was on the account of crowd caused by a disabled person on a wheelchair. But if it was caused by some guy who was too lazy to walk, then i would be mad.
Re:New Technology Apprehensions... (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't you think you're perception of what's going on is a bit narrow? The reason that cars are okay and Segways aren't is because they have roads for cars to drive on. Segways do not. Put a Segway on the road and you get vehicles moving too slow piloted by unlicensed people. Put a Segway on sidewalks and you have motorized vehicles moving faster than pedestrian traffic with no real rules to follow since no license is required.
This isn't knee-jerk reaction, it's common sense. San Fran's the type of place where a LOT of people can afford and will likely indulge in buying these machines.
Where the hell do you park those things? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the point in taking a Segway somewhere if you can't lock it down. This means you couldn't take it to go shopping, seeing a movie, go to the doctor's, go to class, etc. You might be able to take it to work and keep the Segway in your office... if you have space. That's about it... it doesn't have any other practical use.
I would prefer rollerblades to the Segway any day, since they are small and portable.
Typical San Francisco class war politics... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, no kidding. Frankly, I think that's the heart of the matter. The rest is just political rhetoric.
I'm no fan of the Segway. I think it's pretty stupid, and will never be anything more than a toy. But when I read about it being banned in San Francisco, one thought came to my mind -- "typical!"
Personally, I hate all the little punk speed freaks begging for money all over the city. But I don't propose banning skateboards, which I'm sure pose a greater threat to pedestrians.
not so insane ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Walking only zone? (Score:3, Insightful)
Oakland is a bit less crazy, same with Santa Cruz, and San Mateo is just silly (hey we're a big city too! give us some press!)
Anyway, there are definitly areas of all these cities where I'd love to be moving a bit faster, as well as areas where everyone should be walking. Bikes, rollerblades, skateboards, mopeds, etc should be banned by an area-by-area basis.
How about Walking-Only zones (handicapped excepted) in certain areas as opposed to shooting things down individually before they are even being shipped....geez
Segway = Slow Go-Ped (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem I see the Segway having is the same problem Go-peds have. You can't ride go-peds on the sidewalk. You can't ride them in the street either, most of them lack the equipment and certification required to make them street legal.
The smallest gas powered (as in engine displacement) street legal vehicle is a 49.9cc moped/scooter. If you take a look at one, you'll notice it has DOT approved lighting, turn and brake signals. I'm sure if the Segway was modified to be street legal, it could be driven on the street, but ask anyone who has driven a moped (usually with a top speed of about 30MPH) what it's like having people not see you and passing you going 10-25MPH faster than you in most cases. If the Segway has a top speed of 12MPH and is less visible than a biycle, sharing the road with cars would be nothing short of suicide.
As others have said many times before (especially those who ride 49.9cc mopeds/scooters), there needs to be a dedicated lane for low-speed powered vehicles on roadways. Mixing low-speed vehicles with cars and trucks is just as dangerous as mixing low-speed vehicles with pedestrians.
Issues like these make me glad I'm old enough to have a driver's licence and just drive a car.
Re:I hope they banned bikes on their sidewalks too (Score:5, Insightful)
This is mostly true, but note that it's not universally true that bicycles are banned from sidewalks; in the US this is usually a matter for local governments (though there may also be a few states with such bans, I'm not sure).
Certainly it's true that, whatever the law says, people on vehicles with nonzero stopping distances (like bicycles) are better off riding with traffic rather than riding on the sidewalks.
--Bruce F.
Re:I still don't get it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Isn't SF known for it's hills? How about the elderly, infirm, handi-capped, disabled or injured? How about those who already make a living walking all day?
(tig)
Re:A Couple Notes (Score:3, Insightful)
There is also the whole pro-walking thing which lobbied pretty hard against it. They believe this device would cause everyone to get fat.
All other factors aside, these are the people that make absolutely burn with anger. These idiotic health nazis who think they have the right to tell everyone else how to live their life. It's none of their fucking business if someone wants to use motored transportation, even if that causes "everyone to get fat". These are the same absolute imbeciles [cspinet.org] who whine about the fat content of foods and who want to sue fast food places.
I wish these people would just go live their life of denial and leave the rest of us alone.
Walk your bike (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A Couple Notes (Score:3, Insightful)
There is also the whole pro-walking thing which lobbied pretty hard against it. They believe this device would cause everyone to get fat.
Fat? Fat? What they hell are the talking about? Most US citzen's are obese if not outright fat. If they have a concern is that people would get FATTER. Never mind that they live 10 minutes from work.
I would more likely expect people to be whipping a Segway out the back of their SUV, so that they would not have to waddle the half-block to the front entrance avoiding any pretense of exercising.
Re:liberal contradition AGAIN (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess you're a jackass. They have banned Segways from sidewalks. Bicycles and skateboards have long been banned from sidewalks in many areas without real complaint. Why? Because sidewalks are for pedestrians, not vehicles. You can still roam SF freely on your Segway- just hang one of those triangular orange reflectors on your back and get out there in the road, where the rest of the motorised vehicles live. I'm still dumbfounded that the Department of Motor Vehicles hasn't gotten in on regulating these things. You'll see serious lawsuits when these things actually hit people. Then they'll be regulated almost out of existance. Pushing for too much freedom is dangerous- you might get just enough rope to hang yourself with.
Re:Not sure how they could ban something... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because Tom Ammiano is a spoiled little bitch.
From the article:
Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco supervisor who supported the ban said Segway's campaign rubbed officials the wrong way.
New Hampshire-based Segway hired lobbying firms but has made no contributions to any public officials or candidates, said Matt Dailida, the company's director of state government affairs.
Basically, Ammiano is pissed that Segway didn't try to buy him off.
Re:I still don't get it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Phobic (Score:4, Insightful)
Umm, so they only run on bio-fuels such as ethanol or vegetable oil? Oh, they are electric? So they can only be re-charged from solar or hydro-power?
Sorry, electric != enviro-friendly. It can be, but not always. Most times, electricity is just shifting the polution some where else.
Scam aspects of the Segway (Score:3, Insightful)
Allowing small powered vehicles on sidewalks is a real issue. The Segway isn't the only contender. What about electric-powered scooters, which far outnumber Segways? What about powered shopping carts, like you see in some stores? What about all those golf-cart type devices sold to the elderly? Where do you draw the line?
Skateboarders aren't usually a problem because bad skaters wipe themselves out before they hit others.
Sorry, insufficient bribes (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes well when the politicians look at how much they spent on the lobbyists (shirtloads)
and compare that with how much they spent on bribes *cough* campaign contributions (none?)
it doesn't take an MBA (like George W's dad bought for him) to work out what you need to do;
You stiff the berk with the gall to fail to bribe you *at*all* and then spent $$$ big to hire an outfit to harass you (erm 'lobbyist: paid bribe giver and harasser').
The inventors of the seqway may be geniuses but they don't understand politics.
Re:Not sure how they could ban something... (Score:1, Insightful)
I move that we ban electric wheelchairs from the sidewalks as well, since they seem to functionally be similar, if not identical in their ability to mow someone over.
In Bilingual Canada... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry sir, but once you enter Canada, you have to turn over your handguns and obey the laws the physics. On the bright side sir, in the near future, if you're caught with a joint, we'll take you to a back room and frown at you for hours.
As Scotty said, "Ye canna change the laws of physics". If you're travelling at speed X, you have to factor in reaction time (hopefully not impared by alcohol, drugs, PDA or cellphone), then determine the breaking time of a Segway from speed X.
You just walked to the corner of a building on the sidewalk and, oops, sorry sir, that time is now, *crunch*! A troll stole your wallet, the thief got your watch. You have scored 23 points out of a possible sagan points.
This message will now be repeated in French .. oh wait, you're dead. Eh bein.
Re:Enough with the anti-yuppie flamebait. (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm sure people said precisely the same thing when the "horseless carriage" was introduced....
Uh.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sidewalk
no no no... go back and look at my emphasis. SideWALK.
The name alone characterizes itself as a separate place for pedestrians to move about a city or town block. The last time I checked, pedestrians != motorists.
Re:Well consider the momentum aspects of this.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ban the auto - Up with Segweii + Postal Daleks (Score:1, Insightful)
But back to the topic - Ban the cars and let the Segwey roll - sure it'll be a problem when there are just a few people with them on the street and most every one else is on foot - but when we all have em -- and you could trade in your SUV for like 10 of em! and since we know SUV owners are so civicly minded they would be happy to donate their extra segweii (what's the correct plural form anyway?) Personally I'd love to see Manhattan (where I live) to be closed to private automobiles and have the street filled with segweii
as far as the cold postal carriers - they should build a little shell around the segwey to make it like a Dalek from Dr.Who.
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Special Interest Group SIG -- sig^2
Re:it's a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Now wait till WangCo makes a $150 knock off with turbo, wheel spikes, flashing LEDs and a subwoofer, and a bunch of drunk teenagers get them. No accidents?
Bikes on the street (Score:3, Insightful)
1) F***ing drivers need to know that bicycles belong on the road. I have been sworn at more times than I care to count by drivers passing me (or swerving around - see #2).
2) Shoulders. They're good. It's bad for bikers when shoulders don't exist. I don't WANT to ride in the middle of traffic - it's easy for a car to maintain 35mph, but it's hard for me!
In the meantime, I will only ride on the road when the sidewalk is LESS safe (for me or re: pedestrians) or when there's NO sidewalk. (I guess that also makes it less safe..)
Rich bashing *is* minority bashing (Score:3, Insightful)
Unlike you, I don't find it any more acceptable for a liberal to spout class warfare vitriol than for a white supremacist to spout racist drivel.
Re:liberal contradition AGAIN (Score:3, Insightful)
Much more maneuverable than a bike (Score:2, Insightful)
IMO, a common misconception of the Segway is that the vehicle will turn into an uncontrolled launched projectile, like a skateboard in the event of an accident. While there's no denying that the Segway weight 70 lbs., it's also true that it has onboard logic which acts to immediately slow down the device. A "dead man stop", if you will.
The accelerate/decelerate function is also more directly coupled to the driver -- there's less of a reaction time to initiate braking. You just shift your weight, instead of having to drop your foot to the ground (skateboard), or lifting and wrapping your fingers around braking handle (bike), or stepping on a brake pedal (car).
A running person does not have full and continuous contact with the ground to maneuver him. Of course, he makes up for it by being able to "crab leg" a bit sideways when needed.
Re:Not sure how they could ban something... (Score:5, Insightful)
Politicians have got the right idea if you ask me. I don't want some idiot riding one of those things on the same footpath I'm walking on.
Re:Not sure how they could ban something... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You need a training course? (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I do understand why this is banned. It's too wide and too fast, and would cause absolute chaos if it became popular on the streets of any big city. This is a good move, and San Francisco is solving a problem before it even happened.