Inside the Tuna Can 95
blackcoot writes "Now folks walking through MIT's Infinite Corridor get to play with the virtual fishies (they react based on sensor data). I don't know if this will end up looking much nicer than the fish tank that used to come with MS Plus back in the day, but anything that requires months of computation to calculate just the raw data is cool in my book."
Bored? (Score:5, Insightful)
Short, basic moves should take only a few hours to parse, said Qiang Zhu, a research engineer at the vortical flow lab, and one of the FLEX3D programmers. Long, slow turns, however, may take several days.
"But the net effect should be a more realistic movement of the fish than what you see in a screensaver, for example," he said.
But FLEX3D will yield only numerical data for the flow fields and vortices created by each move. After that, it's up to the iQuarium investigators to bring their virtual fish tank to life.
"That part actually shouldn't be too difficult," said Aaron Sokoloski, a mechanical engineering student in the School of Engineering. Sokoloski said he will be using C++ and Microsoft's Direct3D graphics software to model the fish for iQuarium
--quote--
These students are paying top tution dollars and ahve access to some of the most powerful equipment available to what? That's right. Make a giant SCREEN SAVER that "looks pretty".
Proof that students have waaaaaaaaay too much time on their hands.
Re:Bored? (Score:2, Interesting)
However, I agree with your criticism of the students themselves
"Fish create vortices, which are like teeny whirlpools," she said. "And the vortices create changes in water pressure that move the fish forward. That's what makes fish so cool."
Sounds sort of like the village idiot speaking.
That's what makes fish so cool? Uber-l33t fish. What next?
Re:Bored? (Score:3, Insightful)
No, according to the article, they already know how fish move, and this load of computing power is going to recreating that movement, NOT studying it.
Imagine recreating the movements of people in a city. Recording those movements, and analyzing them would be scientificatlly benefitical... but using a supercomputer to duplicate them would be a hi-tech parlor trick, not research.
Re:Bored? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bored? (Score:3, Insightful)
A friend of mine went to study there and worked in the Math labs. He told me most of the really useful investigation took place in the lesser known labs of the university, yet the Media Lab is exactly that, a Media darling, so they get the spotlight. This is not a bad thing. It is a neccessity, and MIT benefits from seemingly frivolous projects like this one.
Re:Bored? (Score:2, Funny)
That's what makes fish so cool? Uber-l33t fish. What next?
I agree with you! This [geocities.com] is what makes fishes look cool.
Re:Bored? (Score:2, Insightful)
Won't look real (Score:1)
The article glossed over some of the details (Score:2, Interesting)
Just to clear this up (Score:1)
Anyway, I've never seen a fish screensaver that displays the dynamic fluid velocity around the fish. Also, the fish will be able to react to the movement of people (or anything) in the hall, thanks to a ceiling mounted webcam and some simple computer vision. Finally, we're not planning on spending quite that much on a display if at all possible. We'd like to get a company to donate one in exchange for publicity. I guess that's all. If you've got any questions, post here and Katie, Audrey, or I will try to answer.
Re:Bored? (Score:1)
Some people find it helpful to talk on the level of the people they're conversing with -- "y'see this cable? well, the cable's got this little pointy part that needs to go up, see, and we stick it in *here* like *this*..." instead of "so you put the IDE cable in the HDD, remembering to observe orientation..."
Re:Bored? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Bored? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Bored? (Score:2)
(Sorry if this is offtopic, i've seen it a lot lately).
You used quote marks. Who were you quoting? Quote marks *mean* something. If you want to emphasise, use emphasis, *emphasis*, emphasis or _emphasis_. What you said made me think that the students didn't see any benefits other than the prettiness of a screensaver, when it was just you who couldn't see what they were actually doing.
Re:You Have No Idea How "Bored" MIT Students Are.. (Score:1)
Re:cool? (Score:5, Informative)
There are a lot of things in nature that looks simple, yet we still can't mimic good enough. How birds fly, fish swim and snakes crawl are some of them.
Re:cool? (Score:3, Interesting)
Take aircraft for example. They are faster but less agile than birds. In transport terms though we really only want them to fly in straight lines from A to B so agility is not an overwhelming consideration in their construction. If we want them to be more efficient we make them lighter and more aerodynamic.
Undoubtably there are niche requirements that will benefit from this sort of research but I doubt the ability to product ships that move like fish (my god think of the sea sickness from the motion of the waves AND the ship itself) will revolutionize transport.
Re:cool? (Score:1)
Isn't that like saying that we shouldn't spend so much money trying to figure out the age of the universe, or how dung beetles reproduce, because there are no immediate, practical applications?
Re:cool? (Score:4, Funny)
Do you have a source for this? Half are below median intelligence, I'm sure, but mean? Or is your confusion of the two just evidence of your categorization?
Re:cool? (Score:1)
You are absolutely right. I stand corrected.
another loser hanging head in shame.
I slapped on that sig at 4am without questioning the source, or duh thinking about it. In fact, as I write this, it's past 2:30am. Maybe I should set a cutoff time ;->
But if you consider the source [skeptics.com.au]...
Anyway, you're right - it should be median, not mean. Thanks for pointing out my blunder. Another embarrassing lesson.
Re:cool? (Score:1)
Re:cool? (Score:1)
In transport terms though we really only want them to fly in straight lines from A to B so agility is not an overwhelming consideration in their construction.
Isn't that like saying that we shouldn't spend so much money trying to figure out the age of the universe, or how dung beetles reproduce, because there are no immediate, practical applications?
No, that is like saying that you don't need to design your latest mega-jet destined to load aboard half a thousand units of self-loading cargo (aka passangers) to be as agile as a hummingbird. After all, they go up, fly more or less straight ahead for anything from an hour to half a day, then go down again.
The point, as I see it, is that big, boring Boings (or Airbuses for that matter) are designed down to a price, not up to a agilitylevel. Quite the oposite of most military aircraft, but...
Boats, ships and submarines are another matter. As they are relatively slow modes of transportation, and anything that increase speed / reduce the energy needed to keep a certain speed is probaly a good thing - at least from an economic viewpoint.
Re:cool? (Score:4, Insightful)
And in few years: (Score:4, Funny)
Très useful.
Re:And in few years: (Score:1)
months of computation (Score:5, Funny)
Re:months of computation (Score:2)
You mean the word "nowt"?
It's an English word, and it means "nothing". Put some computation into your posts before firing them off without thought. You forgot to login too... ah, yeah, I see.
Re:months of computation (Score:2)
Perhaps you wanted to say "naught"?
Re:months of computation (Score:2)
If you lot can have "yeah" and "dude" then we can how "nowt".
Re:months of computation (Score:2)
Spalling is for teh week!
Nowt (Score:1)
Nowt \Nowt\, n. pl. (Zo["o]l.)
Neat cattle.
Sharks (Score:4, Funny)
I reckon they should throw in a few great whites if they want people walking down the corridor to have an experience
Halloween prank (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Halloween prank (Score:1)
Let's run Xscreensaver (Score:1)
Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Talk about inflation! Geez!
Oh really??? So *THAT* is what makes fish cool, eh? I had been going on the shiny, colorful, moving object theory up until now.
I see, so incredible ammounts of number-crunching power are going, not to research of anything important, but to making a large, 3D, screensaver. Well, as long as Microsoft's money is paying for it, what the heck.
Re:Interesting... (Score:2)
Hey dad, get off the internet you're getting grumpy again.
Come on, you have accidentally coined the meaning of Nerd. That's what everything most of us nerds think is cool.
And I you read a bit further down you would have read this statement too
"A lot of people walking down that corridor already love computer engineering," she said. "We want to show them how they can apply those skills to fluid dynamics."
I mean, it's cool, it seems a blast to do, it will require some real understanding of fluid dynamics, and might even spark some interrest for other fields of use for computer science. All you have to do is to get over the fact that they are using a Microsoft grant to do it.
Murphy(c)
Re:Interesting... (Score:2)
No. The problem is that "cool" has it's place. It's safe to say that MIT is not the place to waste student's time and effort, as well as tax dollars on something that is cool. If it was done completly with private funds, I wouldn't have cared at all... However, I begin to care when Microsoft and MIT are getting primo advertising at the expense of their students, and tax dollars that should be going to some sort of technological advancement... NOT making a screen saver. It's almost like having Microsoft use prisioners as underpaid employees... Microsoft is then using government money for their own gain.
Now if only.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Now if only.... (Score:1)
The goal is a more realistic animation (Score:2)
The article answers your question:
Cleaning? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Cleaning? (Score:1)
Just what I was thinking. I guess the fish will soon be invisible because simulated algae and snails start clogging up the screens.
And then the students can start programming to calculate the movements of the famous "belly-up" routine of the fish...
Sounds like El-Fish (Score:5, Informative)
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
- Serge Wroclawski
security (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:security (Score:5, Interesting)
There's a small computer lab just of the infinate that has an electronic (not Simplex) pushbutton lock. It has a large floor-to-cieling set of windows and is affectionately called the "fishbowl" due to your abilty to observe the students in the lab from the Infinate Corridor. My guess is that they'll either make a sturdy display case or put it inside the fish bowl, facing outwards. MIT students also have better things to do that mindlessly destroy MIT property. Occasionally they accidently ruin some alarm sensor they were trying to bypass, but vandalism is pretty rare and theft is somewhat rare.
Breaking and entering with intent to create something creaive and easily removable is about the most the average MIT student is willing to risk getting kicked out of MIT for.
Re:security (Score:2)
Re:security (Score:1)
False Advertising (Score:5, Funny)
Geez... whatever happened to truth in advertising?
What's next? A "Mobius Corridor" that dead-ends?
I miss my Mac... (Score:4, Informative)
Watching real fish move gracefully through a tank is one of the greatest pleasures in life. You can easily zone out for an hour or so just staring at the tank. El-Fish was almost as captivating. Cheers to anyone who tries to improve on that early effort.
--madgeorge
Re:I miss my Mac... (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow! (Score:2)
Oohhh, look at all the pretty colors (Score:4, Funny)
I can see it now; A professor stands in front of the class and begins his lecture:
"Modern science doesn't have to be all boring numbers, bridges and wires. Today we will learn how to make FUN and EXCITING stuff. Be sure to make it COLORFUL and LARGE otherwise investors will take their money else ware!"
What's next, rides? "I'm sorry Timmy, you have to be This High to ride the particle accelerator."
Re:Oohhh, look at all the pretty colors (Score:1)
months of computation ? (Score:1, Funny)
You must be an EMACS user.
This prooves once and for all.. (Score:1)
-$|{
Police, coming through! (Score:3, Funny)
And then the fish (intelligent as they are) calls 911 and gets the visitors charged for rape.
Am I suppose to be funny?
heh (Score:4, Funny)
your like my girlfriend then.. I still aint figured her out.
Re:PARENT = GAYEST POST SO FAR TODAY (Score:2, Interesting)
Virtual Fish (Score:2, Funny)
*ducks*
Microsoft's Most Generous Contribution. (Score:2, Interesting)
Math is good but Nature is better (Score:2, Interesting)
By using simple analog components from transistor radios and similar hardware, some robotic engineers have built robots that learn on their own 'how' to walk. The movements are never pre-programmed, the robot is just given a simple goal like 'move foreward'. It is then up to the robot to 'learn' what actions best meet that goal.
Seems like this technology applied to Robotuna would be a no-brainer. I wonder if they have considered this approach.
More Fishies! (Score:1)
A much superior fish tank site... (Score:2)
Oh the horror! (Score:2)
Similar project: view from a fish's perspective (Score:2, Interesting)
Pretty slick combination of engineering and art.
My Favorite Fishies (Score:1)
$16000 (Score:2, Interesting)
Seaman (Score:1)