Kroupware Komplete

sorinm writes "The three companies behind the Kroupware Project (Erfrakon, Intevation and Klarälvdalens Datakonsult) announced its successful completion today. This new groupware approach using only Free Software is now available in stable versions under the Kolab brand name. Commercial support on an individual basis is already offered with further support options to come."

Re:Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need

[afidel]

Nope, you still need a commercial connector to use Outlook with this. We have had the ability to do that for some time (things like the old HP Exchange alternative and the suite from Oracle, what most of us want is the equivilant of SAMBA, a free and FREE drop in replacement for Exchange that doesn't cost anything to implement so long as we don't need support.

Exchange answers...

[exhilaration]

A little karma whoring never hurt anyone... :)

From the FAQ [kroupware.org]:
How can I make Outlook talk to the Kolab Server?
You need a Plug-in called InsightConnector from http://bynari.com [bynari.net]. This is proprietary software and you need to aquire a license. Demo versions are available. A second company, konsec.com, announced to make a similiar plug-in offering in Q3 2003.

Later on it states:
Is there no Free Software Outlook plugin? Will you create one?
We are not aware of an existing Free Software plug-in for Outlook. Within the Kroupware project we have not been contracted to create such a plug-in. "Kervin L. Pierre" announced to work on it and started sourceforge.net/projects/otlkcon [sourceforge.net].

To bad Evolution probably wont support it

[Plix]

According to the FAQ (and from ximian.com) it appears as if Evolution doesn't support Kroupware and wont be supporting it anytime soon (see this [ximian.com] post to the evolution mailing list). This is a real shame considering that outside of the KDE camp most people aren't using K-Mail in favor of Gnome clients like Evolution and Balsa.

Re:Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused.

[falonaj]

OK, so the KDE project started Kontact, which merges KMail, KOrganizer, KNotes, and KAddressBook.

That's right. Kontact is currently in development, and will be released as part of KDE 3.2. Kontact is the way official KDE development has chosen.

In other words, is Kontact dead?

No, not at all. Kontact will merge all Kolab functionality that has been developed by the kroupware project.

Until the KDE project has released Kontact, you can use the KMail-based Kolab client offered by the kroupware project.

The kroupware project is sponsored by the German gouvernment. Because of the requirements of the German gouvernment offices, they chose to release a KMail-based Kolab first rather than waiting for Kontact to be finished.

In an attempt to stop the FUD BS

[Anonymous Coward]

Kolab, the server : [kroupware.org]
Architecture paper : [kroupware.org]
Kontact, the KDE client [kontact.org]
Bynari insight connector (not free)LA [bynari.net]
Kolab server download : [kde.org]

Re:To bad Evolution probably wont support it

[Wesley Felter]

If both Kroupware and Evolution supported standards, then they wouldn't need any extra support to work together. Unfortunately, Kroupware is taking a weird approach of accessing contacts and calendar entries using IMAP instead of LDAP and CAP. Evolution doesn't support CAP either.

otlkcon status

[kervin]

http://otlkcon.sf.net [sf.net] is mine.

I've been working on it from about Nov'02, and was pretty much trying to keep things on the down-low until I had a proof-of-concept to show. You see, ironically, I did this to not have yet-another-vapor-project out there :)

The a simple connector plugin would not have taken this long. But I've decided to take a solid stab at solving the root problem, that is, an extendable MAPI message service, and the tools needed to program for/with this set of MAPI providers.

First part of the Message service, is the message store. That's the DLL in MAPI responsible for actually saving your mail to the filesystem, amongst other things. The second most important service provider, the transport service provider, is responsible for sending the mail off, basically.

I've been focusing on a sub-project at http://sapimapi.sf.net [sf.net]. Don't let the stats put you off, I've been putting a decent amount of hours on this one ( sf.net CVS stats are broken right now ). This testing utility has a built in scripting language, and common MAPI routines, to make it easy to configure the behavior of MAPI clients for testing the service providers. I also intend to fit in TNEF routines and info on much of the undocumented MAPI properties I've collected from/at various places. The testing utilitly is early, early alpha; I have the language lexer/parser done, and I'm working on the built in MAPI library calls. Extended MAPI from C# is a bitch. Funny they forget to mention stuff like that in the brochure.

Open source connector will get done soon. I've heard of at least one other group working on the problem. I suspect it's only a matter of time till one of the unprofitable companies, selling a MAPI connector, releases it as open source. There are a lot of them.

The important thing, I believe, is that we get a complete extendable toolkit, that would spark the continued development of extensions. Eg. address book, chat, voicemail, etc.

Only project name!

[RPoet]

"Kroupware" was only a working title for the project. The completed product is called Kolab. I don't know why Slashdot went with Kroupware in the title (I think someone mentioned "kroup" is similary to the Dutch word for throwing up).

Re:It's cute and all...

[__aafkqj3628]

It's also bad if you use a keyboard alot - You've got Konquerer, Kmail and now Kroupware. You want to get to Kroupware, you have to hit 'K' THREE TIMES!

Kolab is the name

[twener]

You only proved that you didn't read the announcement. The server is called Kolab, the project name was Kroupware.

Re:Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused.

[twener]

All correct except that the Kroupware project was not sponsored but a normal contract work.

Re:again not quite there

[Derek S]

Building such a connector is clearly a monumental task. I oversaw a test deployment of Bynari Insight Connector a while ago, and I was disturbed to see how kludged together it was. Not only was it a major pain in the ass to configure on a given workstation, but the end product clearly behaved differently than regular Outlook. Needless to say, the project was a non-starter.

I've been meaning to check out Samsung Contact to see if their Outlook integration is any better. It doesn't seem like anyone in the open source world is going to do what it takes to enable such interoperability.

Re:What's with the name?

[Electrum]

Of course, they were right. MySQL isn't 'professional' It's great for hobbyist websites, but that's about it.

You're right, that's why it's used by companies that make millions each month.

Re:Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused.

[danimo]

From "http://kontact.kde.org/faq/":

Kontact, Kolab, Kroupware... I get confused. What's the deal?
Kolab is a groupware solution consisting of a server and a client part as well as an optional binding for Microsoft Exchange, Kolab was developed by a consortium of the three companies Klarälvdalens Datakonsult (Kolab Client), Erfrakon (Kolab Server) and Intevation (project management, QA) which were contracted by the german Federal Office for Information Security (BSI) after winning a formal bid for a groupware solution.
While the Kolab Server has been designed from scratch using well-known free software server components, the Kolab Client which is based on KDE 3.1's KMail, KOrganizer and other components could not be redesigned from scratch to allow a generic groupware approach due to a lack of time. While the client is pretty stable and works reliably and does what it is supposed to, the Kolab Client is too specialized to ship with KDE
Therefore its functionality will move into Kontact. It aims to replace the Kolab Client with its initial stable release. Furthermore, it aims to support other groupware servers such as Microsoft Exchange 2000, SuSE Open Exchange, OpenGroupware.org, etc.

This also points out a very important thing: There was no sponsoring. It was a very normal contract, just based on (mostly exisiting) Free Software. This is important because they want the solution in-house, rather then saying, "Do the world a favor and we pay it" (Yet it's nice that others can profit from it, but that's normal with Free Software, isn't it? :).

Re:Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused.

[WindBourne]

They could have made Gimp a KDE program and forget about all other KDE gfx programs. It already can read a crapload of gfx types, so it's just a gtk=>kde3 port away.
Actually, it was ported ~ 3 years ago (kde 1 time frame) and the Gimp folks got all up in arms about it. So it was stopped. Sad really.
Noatun does need some work, But I like the sound. I find it better than xmms.
I have found that ARTS does overall a good job and has been around since before KDE2. And no, the app is not tied to just KDE. ARTS is independant of KDE
Koffice was started, IIRC, before OpenOffice ever existed. It imports and exports in various formats. Personally, I use vi, but I have used OO and Koffice. OO seems to just work with MS stuff, but Koffice is so very easy to use. Hard to knock its design.
hummmm. As to sig11, I am surprised. I have had no issue with kde3.1

Some more info

[thorsen]

There are quite a lot of posts here that asks some ligitimate questions, and I'll try to answer a bunch of them here.

First of all: The "Kroupware" name. Don't worry, it doesn't exist at all anymore. Kroupware was the name of the contract development, and will not be used for anything else. The server is called Kolab, and the client is KMail, Korganizer, KAddressbook and KPilot. In KDE 3.2 these will come together in one bunch under the name Kontact. We are now porting the features to KDE cvs HEAD.

Second: There are a bunch of people asking about features. For this project we had a list of requirements from BSI that we would implement. We implemented exactly this and not much more. When people say the word groupware, they immediatelly expect three thousand different functionalities, and if you in version 1.0 try to implement all of them, you will break your neck trying.

The functionality is:

Calendaring with iCalendar - send invitations between KMail and Outlook for example

Addressbook - a global one by LDAP and a local one in vCard contacts

Tasks - not groupware tasks though (only KMail to KMail or Outlook to Outlook, since OL doesn't understand iCalendar tasks scheduling :-( )

Vacation mail setup - for vacation nag mails

MDN

Disconnected IMAP support

Roaming support by storing the calendar/contacts... stuff in IMAP folders

Resource scheduling (book cars, rooms...)

I probably forgot a bunch of features. Clientwise, the most important are definately that you can invite between KMail and Outlook. On the server side, the interesting thing here is that this is the only truly free groupware server available, and will allow the Outlook people to continue working with it.

In case you visit the Linux Developers Conference in Edinburgh next week, you can see a presentation/demonstration by me.

Bo Thorsen,
Klaralvdalens Datakonsult AB
Project leader on the client.

Re:Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need

[passthecrackpipe]

While the focus for the custom client is indeed KDE, you can use this with Evolution. It uses all the common open protocols, such as WebDAV, SMTP, POP/IMAP4 etc. Hooking this up with Evolution is no problem.

This will allow you to work with a smallish group of people, however, please note that the effort in management may not be your idea of worthwhile though. However, don dismiss it out of hand.

Alternatively, you may want to check out SuSE's OpenExchange, and excellent alternative to Exchange.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Czech this out

[yerricde]

How about KDE is no in some language?

Possibly... Go here [wordbook.cz], select "czech - english", and enter 'kde'.

Re:Looks great? Surely you're joking

[tzanger]

Actually if you've ever used Korganizer or KMail (Kontact is just the mashing of those together), you would know that it's actually pretty straightforward to use. The icons are no worse than MS' icons, and many concepts are difficult to get across in a 24x24 bitmap.

As someone once said: the only truly intuitive interface is the nipple; everything else is learned. All this talk of intuitive interfaces and crap icons is bullshit. Tooltips and context-sensitive help are available, and better icons come with time and inspiration. There simply is no such thing as a truly intuitive application, especially one as complex as a groupware application.

FWIW, Kmail and KOrganizer can be run separately and still maintain their connectedness via the data. you don't have to run Kontact if you don't want to. That is an important difference between MS' implementation and KDE's.

Re:Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need

[metamatic]

You could replace Exchange servers with Domino servers using iNotes Access for Microsoft Outlook.

Rather than the ~3,000 users per server max of Exchange, you can load up to 100,000 simultaneous users on an iSeries machine running Domino...

Re:What's with the name?

[gregfortune]

That's been a consistant view of yours for at least the last year and while it was basically wrong then, it is now wrong in every imaginable way.

It isn't used by just hobbyist websites. If you need a couple of examples, both NASA and Google use MySQL for various purposes. I'll let you do more googling on your own... mysql.com also has information available. A short list posted under Customers on their Fact Sheet lists Yahoo!, Cisco, NASA, Lucent Technologies, Motorola, Google, Hyperion, and Sony Pictures.

It performs very well for small/medium business point of sale systems as well. I personally have several clients using an application backended by MySQL. Not only has it been stable, it's blindingly fast.

MySQL still doesn't have the power that Oracle provides on big iron, but it compares very favorably to MSSQL and even to DB2, etc.

So, please tuck the FUD away under the bed. I wouldn't even both entertaining this, but you've been a regular poster here and maybe I will have cleared up a little confusion for you.

Re:Has anybody tried it yet?

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

No true patriot would ever use this stuff. Do you really want your kids world to be full of words like "Erfrakon" and "Klarälvdalens Datakonsult"?

Even though the rest of your post is absolute rubbish, let's at least get our biggotry straight; "Klarälvens Datakonsult" is a Swedish company, not German.

And even though we're not exactly an ally, Sweden and the US have never been at war either. In fact Sweden's hardly been at war since the founding of the US (there's the tiff with the Russians in 1809 but that's about it).