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Michael Robertson Unveils SIPphone 236

Posted by simoniker from the is-it-hot-or-not? dept.
JimCricket writes "After almost a year of preparation, the person behind MP3.com and Lindows has unveiled his latest venture: SIPphone. According to a CNET article, the new company sells VoIP-based telephones. I wonder what kind of latency you get with these devices." Interestingly, the CNET article reveals the telephones "...can only call other phones that use the same technology."
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Michael Robertson Unveils SIPphone More

Michael Robertson Unveils SIPphone

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  • If it can only call similar phones... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @05:45AM (#6633206) Journal
    ...then it's doomed already.
    • From their web page [sipphone.com], it looks as if you can call any other SIP phone:

      Finally, you will want to call and talk to a live person. There are already thousands of numbers you can call. If you know a SIP number of a friend, you can dial it now or look up numbers on the SIPphone white pages [sipphone.com]. SIPphone lets you call users on other popular SIP services like FWD [sipphone.com] and Iptel [sipphone.com] as well. All SIPphone numbers will begin with 747 (it's optional to dial the first three numbers).
    • but they don't fail. First of all, if you want to remove the restriction for a VoIP phone to only call other VoIP phones in and of itself you have to wire and pay for a phone line in parallel to your Ethernet/IP Networking tech thats already in place. This virtually undermines the idea and benifits of VoIP in the first place. Instead, what we do at Stanford in one of the networking buildings is have a Cisco VoIP system installed thats routed in parallel (read same physical networks, different subnet) to the
    • Not necessarily. If your product won't interoperate, and you're the first in your market segment, then you've got a big lead. But at the same time, you leave yourself open to a bigger player (who can survive longer) undercutting you with lower (possibly anticompetitive) pricing.
      • That's a maybe but this product isn't the first to market is it?

        There are already lots of VoIP solutions out there, and how does this "me too" product differ from the crowd? What killer features does it have? None that I can see.

        If anything, it has a major, probably fatal, drawback - only working with similar phones.

        OK, so people carrying out long-distance relationships might like it but what about the rest of us? What's in it for Joe Average?

    • Re:If it can only call similar phones... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You're right -- if it can only call similar phones, it's doomed. That's exactly the kind of truism comment I'd expect from here -- have you ever actually used VoIP?

      Here's why this might be reasonably successful:

      1. What they are selling is a Directory Service + Grandstream [grandstream.com] phones which support the SIP protocol -- which is *the* standard for VoIP signalling -- oh, which is also supported by the Cisco ATA 186, Cisco 7960, MS IM, X-Lite, Asterisk, etc. -- i.e. basically anyone playing in the VoIP space who doe
    • ...then it's doomed already.

      SIP users include AT&T, Avaya, Texas Instruments, Worldcom, Alcatel, Nortel and MCI. You know, the biggest telcos and telco equipment manufacturers in the world. SIP is hardly "doomed".
      • Although SIP is commonplace their own website suggests that this particular phone won't work with other VoIP solutions. If that's true, then this project is destined to fail.

        Imagine that you started up a mobile phone company right now, once the market is already well populated with providers, but that your users could only call other users on the same network. How long do you think it would be before you folded?

        Even if this phone does work with other SIP/VoIP products what is there to differentiate it fro
        • It appears that SIPphone is a new service of some sort - As there's nothing new about the Grandstream BudgeTone phones except for the price (They used to be $80-90 each last I checked, Robertson is selling two for $129.99.

          The hardware WILL work with other SIP services - I believe the BudgeTone is popular as a SIP client for use with the Asterisk open-source PBX software. In an Asterisk setup, you can use the phone as a normal PBX extension phone.
    • My son is in Germany and his girlfriend has moved back to the states for studying. My son has broadband, and his girlfriend has through the university dorms where she will stay.

      Even using cheap carriers, the phones pay for themselves after just 43 hrs of calls (not a lot for two teenagers in love). IM and Email are free, but its not the same thing as voice.

      SIP has many problems as a standard (they want to stretch to IM too) - but it seems to work in the basic case. Selling two phones together is good id

    • ...then it's doomed already.

      But it is based on a standard protocol.

      What happens when someone creates a SIP client for my PCS-Vision-has-its-own-IP-address phone? What happens when someone creates a SIP bridge for my POTS system at home?

      The governments are screaming about the lost tax revenue already...

  • Interestingly, the CNET article reveals the telephones "...can only call other phones that use the same technology."

    Can you say "bankrupt" and "insolvency" ?

  • What kind of service is that? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by unclethursday ( 664807 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @05:53AM (#6633232)
    "...can only call other phones that use the same technology."

    I nkow some cell phone companies have offers when calling within their network (no use of minutes, extra minutes, etc.), but not being able to call out of the network at all?

    As someone said, the thing is dead already.

    The only thing I can think of that it might work well for is buisnesses. Think of something like a Nextel walkie-talkie cellular service, but without the 'fear' of employees calling other people.

    Other than possibly that, however, this thing will never sell.

    Thursdae
    600 minutes/month, free nights/weekends, and free long distance on my cel plan... and I can call anyone I want.

    • I nkow some cell phone companies have offers when calling within their network (no use of minutes, extra minutes, etc.), but not being able to call out of the network at all?

      As someone said, the thing is dead already.

      If you'll forgive the ad hominem comment, it astonishes me that you haven't learnt anything from all the tech that we obsess about so enjoyably here on /.

      Remember SMS messaging? Oh, you're prolly a yank, maybe you don't use it. Well, it was your network only at first, then it was inter-

    • It's SIP service, silly (Score:5, Informative)

      by Trinition ( 114758 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:36AM (#6633363) Homepage
      As the name implies and the article explains, the phone uses SIP, or Session Initiation Protocol [columbia.edu]. I did some research on SIP last year and found it to be somewhat intruiging.

      SIP is basically used for setting up the endpoints of a human communication channel over an IP-based network. It negotiates what kinds of communcations are supported on each end, and what protocols to use. So if a video-SIP-phone calls a regular analog phone via a SIP-PSTN proxy, the proxy would only support audio certain codecs. The calling video-SIP-phone and the proxy would negotiate to use only audio using a matching protocol and the cal would go through.

      And since SIP is a protocol just like SMTP or HTTP, it is very controllable. There are dozens of SIP products popping up from SIP servers to SIP proxies... and now SIP phones. For example, you can have a SIP proxy/server be concious of where a user is logged in and re-route SIP calls to their present location. As a Java programmer, I'm looking forward to the day when I find a reason to write a SIP Servlet.

      Furthermore, the latest version of Messenger in Windows XP supports SIP. I would think that this means a SIPPhone could call someone using Microsoft's Messenger on Windows XP. However, I was not able to confirm this with a breif perusal of the SIPPhone site, and they also state this only works with other SIPPhones. That may be an over-generalization to keep people from thinking it works with regular phones, or maybe they did something crazy with it.

      I'm crossing my fingers that it is a generic SIP endpoint that can contact any SIP-enabled device.
      • The one thing that we (in Linux world) need is an IPTables module for handling SIP packets. There used to be an H323 module, but SIP is fast becoming the standard for VoIP. insmod ipt_SIP.o anyone?

        Then Linux firewalls can be used in companies, rather than application layer proxies (yuk).

        • You should prefer to setup a SIP proxy on the gateway rather than implementing a SIP ALG module.

          SIP (as any VoIP protocol) is a complicated protocol with many options and many modes of operations.

          Parsing it is somewhat ugly especially if you do it in kernel code where any small mistake will kill the gateway completely (as opposed to killing the SIP proxy only).
          • I don't know... I'd rather some nice tried and tested kernel module, as opposed to some companies get-a-proxy-out-the-door-and-make-some-money-quick proxy.
            I hear what you're saying about it being complicated - but the ftp connection tracking module works fine, doesn't it, and that uses separate ports for control and data.
            Why would SIP be much different to that?

      • Re:It's SIP service, silly (Score:5, Informative)

        by wfberg ( 24378 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @07:05AM (#6633440)
        I would think that this means a SIPPhone could call someone using Microsoft's Messenger on Windows XP. However, I was not able to confirm this with a breif perusal of the SIPPhone site, and they also state this only works with other SIPPhones.

        Check out the product spec [grandstream.com] from the manufacturer.
        The SIPPhone page states the make and model.

        Interoperable with various 3rd party SIP end user device, Proxy/Registrar/Server, and gateway products (e.g., MS Messenger, Cisco IP phone and gateway, etc)

        Support popular vocoders including G.723.1 (5.3K/6.3K), G.729A/B, G.711 (a-law and u-law), G.726, G.728, and wide-band G.722 (Model 102D). Dynamic negotiation of codec and voice payload length

        G.711 is the granddaddy of the voice codecs. It doesn't say it uses H.323, but I'm guessing it does, seeing as it interoperates with cisco and msn messenger voip.

        You can probably even use a different directory service than SIPPhone.com's ; the phone has a web interface for configuring it.
        • Oops! SIP is of course a replacement for H.323.
          a comparison [packetizer.com] of the two.

        • SIP=the new H.323

          Anything running SIP won't use H.323. THey are "competing" protocols. Cisco VoIP supports SIP, but they have yet to produce a SIp server, i beleive. Any IP phone on the market should support SIP, or it will have a much shorter lifespan. SIP/H.323 sets up/takes down the call, applies your billing. The actual voice stream is RTP (real time protocol). If RTP packets are dropped or arrive out of order, they won't appear in your phone conversation. Usally this results in 10-20 ms of silence, wh
    • I know some cell phone companies have offers when calling within their network (no use of minutes, extra minutes, etc.), but not being able to call out of the network at all?

      As someone said, the thing is dead already.

      I disagree. The same could be said of FAX machines when they first came out. But, suddenly, there were several different manufacturers that made compatible FAX machines. Then you could get a FAX-MODEM for your PC. Fed-Ex even tried to offer FAX as a service.

      Shirky has a great writi [shirky.com]
    • "...can only call other phones that use the same technology."

      Yes and no. The phone can only call other SIP devices, but there is no reason that the SIP device cannot be a gateway to the PSTN. Mr. Roberton's service includes the ability to call other sip directory networks, including Free World Dial-up.

      Free World Dial-up already has the ability for USA and UK PSTN phones to call a FWD phone number (see the "3rd Party Inbound" section at http://fwd.pulver.com/index.php?section_id=78 [pulver.com] ). In addition, the sa

  • American area code for an international system? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Psychic Burrito ( 611532 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @05:55AM (#6633236)
    After reading the how it works page [sipphone.com], it looks like all these phones will use the US/Canadian area code 747. While this jumbo number is easy to remember, I'm asking myself if it would have been wiser to use a new country code instead. Imagine asian people exchanging their phone number, and one of the two has a number starting with +1747... it just doesn't sound right...
    • If these phones can only communicate with one another, it won't matter what you do - area code or country code - both parties will have the same exact number format.
    • That just goes to show the complete artificiality of area and country codes, and the associated 'long-distance' rates. Why are Canada and the United States the same country code, yet calling in-between typically costs more? It's quite arbitrary, at least in North America, so I think that this fits with that general trend.

      But remember, this is separate from your traditional phone network anyways, so they wouldn't even need to follow the standard American phone number format. It just makes adoption easier

  • Must we support Michael Robertson?? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jkrise ( 535370 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @05:55AM (#6633238) Journal
    Lindows is good advertisement for Linux, but for all wrong reasons - root login, anti-virus etc.. Secondly, Lindows has subsidised the SCO vultures. Despite all the hype about XBox cracking, no one but Microsoft has benefitted from the hack.

    It's tough supporting someone who paid SCO.

    -

  • Internetwork gateways? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Max Romantschuk ( 132276 ) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Thursday August 07, 2003 @05:56AM (#6633239) Homepage
    Even if you could only call people using phones with the same technology locally, surely a solution could be devised to call other networks, as we do with areacodes and whatnot already?

    The question rather becomens, does it make sense to do so?

  • I like it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bazik ( 672335 ) <bazik AT gentoo DOT org> on Thursday August 07, 2003 @05:56AM (#6633242) Homepage Journal
    I already read about that a few hours ago on a German newspage and am currently waiting for SIPPhone's sales dep. to answer my questions :)

    As you get 2 phones for $129 its not that big problem that you can only call other SIPPhones with that... I might buy a pair and give one phone to my girlfriend as she lives over 200km away from me and a priceless phone connection to her would lower my bill alot ;)

    If anyone is curious about the quality, there is some info about that on their homepage [sipphone.com] saying:

    SIP calls typically have very high audio quality. Call quality is much better than cell phones and may even be better than land line phones you're used to - especially over long distances and between countries. SIP uses the latest compression techniques which allow calls to sound their best.

    Sounds ok for me :)

    • Re:I like it (Score:4, Insightful)

      by billimad ( 629204 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:09AM (#6633278)
      Your standard analog land line uses a stream of 64kbps (ulaw/alaw compression) but this is related to the quality of the audio not the latency of the network it goes over. The telecom network traditionally allocates a complete end-to-end circuit for your call - wasteful but guarantees QoS.

      I definitely think this [VoIP] is the way to go. This is an preview of the future and as such will have limitations.
      • The telecom network traditionally allocates a complete end-to-end circuit for your call - wasteful but guarantees

        That information is only about 5 years out of date.
        Just about every LD carrier is using carrier-class VoIP solutions now. Unless you're calling intra-lata, from POTS line to POTS line, your callis probably going IP somewhere.
        • That information is only about 5 years out of date.
          Just about every LD carrier is using carrier-class VoIP solutions now. Unless you're calling intra-lata, from POTS line to POTS line, your callis probably going IP somewhere.

          This is actually incorrect. Please stop reading the latest TECH/Industry magazines.

          In Fact only 10% of GLOBAL Telephony minutes are now VOIP and only the long haul stage at that.

          99% of calls originated in the U.S. to other U.S. based destinations still go over traditional TDM networ

    • Re:I like it (Score:3, Insightful)

      by TwistedGreen ( 80055 )
      Although this looks like a nice implementation, if you both have broadband connections already, why is this such a big deal? You can communicate with VoIP already. It's not like there's any shortage of software for that, and all you'd need is a cheap mic instead of a fancy $65 handset. And you can also add video, if you both had cameras. None of this is particularly new technology or anything.
      • Think average Joe, not geekmail crowd. Taking a familiar device (a phone), plugging it into a familiar socket in a familiar fashion, and then operating it in a familiar way without even knowing anything about Internet, VoIP and other cool (but unappealing to regular folks) things. This is extremely viable idea that opens huge consumer market with a simple and clear message -

        no-cost-long-distance-calls

        Sure, technology-wise it's nothing new, but packaging and marketing are novel and I bet we'll see much

  • Just another nexus (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jdodge99 ( 695972 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @05:57AM (#6633244)
    FWD is one way for SIP users to interconnect, this could well be another. Grandstream's are cheapie ip phones, but from what I read on asterisk's mailing list - they do work pretty well for the simple stuff. VOIP /will/ happen -- the protocols need to catch up -- with QOS priority usage, nat traversal issues etc. IPV6 would make these things easy, but even without it people will find a way to make things work. Keep in mind -- people may well buy a pair of these as a "free talk" solution on a temporary basis, but then move on to more sophisticated usage. Grab one of these, set up asterisk http://asterisk.org w/ a one port fxo (connects computer to a phone line for incoming/outgoing calls) card - and you instantly gain a lot of flexibility. This WILL happen -- it's only a matter of WHEN it will happen.

  • A step in the right direction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fven ( 688358 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:04AM (#6633263)
    This business model seems very much like the way we as consumers should be heading.

    I am reminded of the failed business plan when faw machines were first commercial (before they were common) FedEx offered a service called ZapMail, whereby they offered 2 hour delivery of documents rather than 1 day. They did this by faxing the documents around FedEx offices.
    Of course people realised that for a small initial investment (buy a fax machine) they could do they same thing themselves, cheaper.

    This seems a small venture at the moment and may be ulitmately unsuccessful due to the limitiation of only being able to call other SIPphones, but it is a step in the right direction and may pave the way for other businesses to operate using a similar model.

    I see uses for not only businesses but for travellers and ex-patriots. It is increasingly easy and cheap too access broadband internet while costs of international phone calls are still high.

  • Can only call other VoIP phones that use SIP (Score:4, Informative)

    by solidhen ( 642119 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:06AM (#6633270)
    From the FAQ:

    Q: Can I use software or what is called a softphone to make and receive calls with SIPphone?
    A: Although it may work, at this time we cannot offer support for anything but a certified SIP phone.

    Q: Are there other SIP phones I can order besides those offered at SIPphone?
    A: The SIP phones offered at SIPphone are designed to work out of the box with SIPphone with zero or minimal configuration. We also work to offer the most affordable SIP phones available in the world. Many SIP phones cost hundreds of dollars. SIPphone sells 2 phones for just $129.99. It may be possible to use the SIPphone directory with other phones, but no technical support is available at this time to support this.

    Q: I already own a SIP phone and I would like to use your SIPphone directory service. What should I do?
    A: First, you need to sign up with our service at SIPphone Sign Up. These are the settings that you will want to use:

    SIP Server: proxy01.sipphone.com (130.94.123.252)
    STUN Server: stun01.sipphone.com (69.0.208.27)
    NTP Server: ntp01.sipphone.com
    TFTP Server: tftp01.sipphone.com (130.94.123.253)

    Currently the SIPphone directory service has only been tested with the Grandstream BudgeTone 100 phone. Please check back for further updates on "SIPphone friendly" SIP phones.

  • Gtreat News (Score:2, Interesting)

    by PhysicsExpert ( 665793 )
    Its great to see VoIP finally starting to take off, it has always seemed strange to me that we should live in a world where most people have a highspeed internet connection and yet our phone system still relies on copper wires and lossy a/d converters. If VoIP really takes off then a fully digital system would mean an end to those crackly phone calls and slow connections.

    What might be intereting though is if people set up their own VoIP systems over existing mobiles. Here in Europe we have GRPS which is
  • Netmeeting with a headset on a laptop with 802.11b is the shiznit for voice over IP.

    Hell, what I'd like to see is a device that LOOKS like a cordless phone, is 802.11b compatible and supports Netmeeting/AIM voice chat/etc... If enough people got those and wireless access points, POTS might soon go the way of the dodo.

  • SIP Phones (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:14AM (#6633300)
    SIP is an IETF standard for voip, surely he just meant it could only phone other SIP phones! no need for any conspiracy theories! SIP is an open standard, and you can even get linux software linphone [linphone.org] to use it... Just need a gateway to the traditional phone system and yer sorted.
    • Keep in mind that the Asterisk open-source PBX includes SIP gateway support.

      And the phones that Robertson is selling are already tested and known to work with Asterisk. (These phones aren't new, although $130/pair is - They were $80-90+ per single unit last time I checked.)

      • Re:Gateway (Score:3, Informative)

        by jpiterak ( 112951 )
        Yes, but don't forget that there are still issues using SIP across NAT gateways/firewalls.

        On the plus side, even though the Grandstream phones have had some flakiness issues, Grandstream has been very responsive, releasing firmware updates regularly.

        They also seem to be committed to working with open source projects like Asterisk, perhaps even supporting Asterisk's IAX protocol - a replacement for SIP that DOES work (and work well) behind/across a NAT firewall.

        In any case, anyone interested in
        • Yes, but don't forget that there are still issues using SIP across NAT gateways/firewalls.

          I'sure you mean "VoIP", not SIP. SIP was created to fix those problems, and, for the most part, has.
    • Yes and no. It all depends on the actual codec used. If they use G.711, GSM-FR or Speex (and follow the RTP payload draft/RFC), everything's fine. However, if they use a proprietary codec, other VoIP apps will likely not work. Of course, it would be nice to see linphone interoperate with these devices.
  • This is just another thinly veiled attempt at giving my mother yet more bloody methods to call me up and find out why she has no bloody grandkids yet.

    I dispare i really do..
    • I'd take your mom asking about kids over my mom supporting gay rights for everyone and ignoring her straight children.

      if we swap, you won't ever have to worry about a mom who wants grandchildren. let's talk.

  • FREE BLAH FOR ALL! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    17:01 7/8/2546

    phone calls are acctually free already.

    well IF you have a bluetooth capable cell phone, broadband(ADSL->IP->VoIP) and a bluetooth capable
    computer (if not get one of those bluetooth in a USB-device plug-ins).

    too bad now one knows how to programm the stupid bluetooth cell-phones.

    the lamn customer-care(sic)(evil)
    acctually told me that one cannot tunnel voice thru bluetooth. they are black-listed now.
    while i was reading their reply to my question "tunneling voice thru Bluetooth" i was al

  • latency? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Awptimus Prime ( 695459 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:24AM (#6633332)
    "I wonder what kind of latency you get with these.."

    I would assume the same latency you would have with any application that would have taken the same network path as the 'net phone's packets?

    Perhaps you are talking about an audio delay? In that case, assuming your ISP has proper routing, there should be no significant delay (around the same as many cell phones) when speaking to someone else in your same country.

    I've set up vbrick devices to use two T1's bridged for LAAtlanta conferences and the delay was barely noticable.

    Not since dialup on a 28.8k modem have I noticed much problem with audio communications on the web. Definitely better than the telco's international service back in the 80's. I remember talking to friends in Germany and Japan and having to stop for long periods of time between sentences to prevent cross talk.

    I think this product is so-so, though. Without a subscription based access from the voip phone to a telco bridge and a real phone number, it's not going to explode in popularity regardless of it's audio quality.

  • SIP is the way to go (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mickut ( 31426 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:25AM (#6633336)
    SIP is not limited to just VoIP, as the name says it is Session Initiation Protocol. There already is a reasonable GNU SIP library, so let's make that better, and then we can create an open source SIP capable VoIP-phone that could interoperate with this system as well as others.

    Other uses for SIP that could/should happen IMO are (starting a session of) multi-player games and messaging, conferencing software for sharing pictures, etc.

    Since SIP is basically just a handshake protocol, doing all those things shouldn't be impossible. Wanna play a game of chess or go with a pal? Just initiate a SIP connection, if their end supports your game and they are available, you've got a connection. No more application specific ports to configure to get a multiuser application work.

  • Existing... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by daaku ( 199603 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:33AM (#6633356)
    Making international call's is pretty expensive, especially in developing contries. In India, we get a device which goes between the phone cable and the phone. You press # twice (on your regular phone), it calls your ISP, goes online, checks your account balance and rings. All in about 2 mins. And then you can use your existing phone and call from anywhere to the USA for about 1.9 cents a minute. Hell, even within the US 1.9 cents a minute is pretty good.

    Oh yeah, they've got a ethernet version too. No need to wait for the 2 odd minutes. And the connection is crystal clear. The callee never realizes how 'cheap' the caller is!

  • This is Doomed. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:37AM (#6633366) Homepage
    Creative tried it. with he VoIP blaster. While being fantastic devices and I snapped up as many as I could to use not with creative's services but with fobbit so I could use them without relying on their servers for routing and connecting.

    Most people were not interesed in it because it was semi-difficult to use and made you think you needed to buy their service, which you didn't.

    I use VoIP all the time. My GF lives 100KM away so that makes it cheaper IF both ends have DSL or CABLE modem. VoIP completely sucks over a dial up.... which over 60% of internet users still have as their only way of getting online.

    I wish him luck, but there is cheaper and better hardware out there already (The VoIP blaster is still sold under the origional manufacturer's brand) that is cheaper and much more flexible.
  • But unfortuntatly other than telling my girlfriend about the idea I did not capitilize on it. Still the idea is not that novel and I am sure there are many that also came up with similar Ideas. the trick is working out how to allow the phone to make calls to REGULAR phones for basically a penny. Something like dialing an internet node which is in the location of the person you are dialing, and having the internet node connect to that person and pass the call back to you.
    Ofcourse this has many privacy implic
    • Sure, that works. Go to Open H.323 [openh323.org] for an overview. What you want is called a gateway.

      Of course, the real innovation would be to create a Gnutella-like network of people interested in maintaining a local phone line to donate to such a cause. That's an idea I had a couple of years ago. I decided it would be limited to businesses, because the person would pretty much have to have a *spare* phone line. Also, the system would probably attract a lot of leeches, so making sure that each node contributes wou
  • "SIPphone offers a directory with thousands of numbers which you can call anytime, worldwide, at no cost."

    How long before we start getting automated commercial calls? The hardware cost to set something like that up is minimal and there are no call charges.

    Or even worse, how long before someone writes a script to retrieve the numbers from the directory and call them all at random intervals?

  • Wouldn't a picture of the device SOMEWHERE on their website be a good idea? An artists impression at least!

    Can it really look so bad that they want to hide it?

    Are they re-using the plastics from 80's Garfield the cat novelty phones or maybe it's a Billy Bass add-on?

  • Cisco has them (Score:3, Informative)

    by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:55AM (#6633408) Homepage Journal
    Our company have several Cisco VoIP phones deployed in various departments. We even have the ability for them to interface with the PTSN through special hardware attached to a 5ESS switch.

    The only thing that prevents us from doing any massive rollouts is the utter fact that price per user and the nature of data networks make the phones more subject to unusability due to network problems than a normal phone.. This is not latency issues were more worried about something like a OSPF/Firewall or something along those lines wiping out a whole department's ability to communicate.

  • But who has the directory? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wfberg ( 24378 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:58AM (#6633418)
    You can pick up SIP phones, and even nice H323 videoconferencing hardware cheap these days from Taiwanese OEMs. Companies like vonage.com [vonage.com] or pilmo.nl [pilmo.nl] will even hook them up to the plain old telephone system for you.

    The main problem is that each company that sells these things to end users uses it's own LDAP directory. So you can call other people who use the same brand easily by tapping a 'phone number' that's the same regardless of their everchanging IP number, but don't expect to call your buddy who's using netmeeting so easily. Also, if you place a call from one VOIP telco to another, chances are it will travel some distance over PSTN and will be billed in stead of free, despite the fact it could have been an end-to-end-over-IP connection which is usually free of charge.

    Of course SIP can work over the real dns just beautifully (using SRV records), but do these phones support entering alphanumeric user/hostnames? And will hotmail support SIP? (Answer, yes it will, and it will tie in with MSN video/voiceconferencing and Microsoft SIP phones...)
    • Replying to myself.. Too bad you can't edit your own posts.. But then again, the goatse guy might crop up a lot! ;-)

      Free World Dialup [fwdnet.net] is already running a directory that voip services can hook up to for free. For example "Dial 1010333number to reach iConnectHere subscribers" and "Dial **478number to reach any iptel subscriber."

      Not as good as using DNS (you could just dial number@iptel.com if that were implemented correctly) or a global standard so that voip services would just have their own LD/country c

  • Not a problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dexter77 ( 442723 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @06:58AM (#6633419)
    "...can only call other phones that use the same technology."

    The article seem to have forgotten to mention that (almost) all 3G mobile phones have native SIP support. It means that in near future all mobile phones, atleast in Europe can call via SIP.

    Since Microsoft Netmeeting has SIP support, and Linux has its own SIP stacks, you might be expecting a SIP boom soon.

    SIP is probably the future of IP calling. It has some very nice features in it that make it work well with other messaging applications like "InstantMessaging". I'd say put your money on SIP now.

  • Wow! (Score:2)

    by Cally ( 10873 )
    What an innovative idea. If only it hadn't occured to Cisco three years ago...

  • I'd like to see phones that have enough smarts built in to try establishing a direct connection with the other phone instead of always going through the phone company's tower.

    Can these phones talk directly to each other without going through a WEP?

    If not, why not?

    • Yes, they can, as it happens.
      The only thing this company is selling is a directory service, just like DNS, or a standard paper telephone directory. You then make a direct call, much like receiving data from a web server.

      You can buy the actual phones seperately from Grand Stream.
      • No, no, no... you missed it.

        Two phones in the same building would still need the WEP and an IP protocol router (if it's not in the WEP) to address each other by IP address.

        Here's what you missed:

        Both phones can "hear" each others' radio signals... so why don't they just talk directly with each other via radio instead of going through the WEP/router combo?

        This is what got me about those nifty cell phones with the walkie-talkie-like group communication function... Even though they weren't paying for a

  • This [draytek.co.uk] is an ADSL Router with VOIP facility. You just plug an ordinary phone into it.

    The dialling is a bit complicated but you can set up common numbers in the router.

    It also has the problem of only being able to phone other VOIP systems but for the home worker connecting to the office (that has a VOIP exchange) it would be ideal.

    Zero cost phone calls to colleagues.

  • If you would like to give SIP a try just try out the latested X-Lite/FWD Client available
    here [xten.net].

    Please read the FWD Quick Start Guide [pulver.com] to you get familar with our community.

    Once you have a Free World Dialup account, you can dial your friends who have a SIPphone account, by dialing **747 followed by the SIPphone number. You can also dial people on other SIP networks.

    FWD now also supports the ability to place
    "toll-free" calls into the US, UK and the Netherlands. more Details are availalbe: here [pulver.com].

    At the momen

  • SIP isn't new at all - neither are SIP phones (Score:3, Interesting)

    by potcrackpot ( 245556 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @08:13AM (#6633685) Homepage
    I thought slashdot was supposed to be full of people who knew what they were on about? More than half of this thread is rubbish! "Doomed, we're all Doomed!"

    Saying that SIP is dead is like saying that, ooh, UDP will never take off.

    It's been around for ages, and it's not just used for phones; it's a generic session establishing protocol.

    Essentially, you want to set up some kind of media session between two endpoints; what you do is you send a SIP INVITE message through proxies etc. and attach another kind of protocol message (such as SDP) which describes the requirements for the session. The endpoint receives this, and establishes the session directly (without the proxies etc. in the loop). In very short.

    It's just another protocol, like DAP.

    SIP phones have been around for ages too - Pingtel's offering is probably the best one.

    That said, I don't see SIP phones as taking off in the home, or for personal use; they're much more suited to being used in small enterprises etc.; much lower cost than a PBX. You'd have to have some kind of PSTN interface with the outside world - perhaps phone companies will start providing softswitch capabilities so that people can make their VoIP network speak to the outside world?

    What you CAN do at the moment is have a mixed network - VoIP which talks via a router (Cisco 2600 for example) which then talks to the PBX which talks to the PSTN in the usual fashion.
  • Does anyone sell an unencumbered VoIPPOTS bridge for 1-3 analog lines? I guess I'm thinking of a box with an ethernet jack, line jacks, and extension jacks. POTS extensions go in the extension jacks, POTS lines go into the line jacks, and ethernet into the ethernet jack. Device allows POTS extensions to make POTS or VoIP calls, terminates VoIP calls on extensions or bridges them to the POTS network, or allow POTS network originated phones to make VoIP calls.

    I could see that being very useful as a starte
  • You can buy the sipphone devices, then configure them for FWD (fwd.pulver.com). With FWD you get the ability to call regular landline/cell phone numbers over IConnectHere, the ability to call toll free numbers in the US, the ability to call a FWD number from a regular phone (see libretel.com) and an existing use base of 43,000.

    And yes, FWD is free.

  • If this came out before the cellular boom, then it might have had a chance. Cellular has become the lifeblood of business. The company I worked for even put cellular repeaters in the building to insure a good signal. Many of the local retail businesses, and especially malls, have done the same.

    Most cellular companies now either offer affordable unlimited calling plans, or unlimited calling between cell phones on the same service. You are no longer tied to your desk, and for many, that means they no lo

  • Vonage [vonage.com] has a service where they give you a router to plug a regular phone into. The router is then plugged into your cablemodem/dsl/whatever and voila, you have a VoIP SIP based phone. They also provide you with a phone number (in just about any area code) and give you great rates on long distance. No need for a Pingtel or SIPhone.
  • You can call other SIP users, from the SIPphone website:

    "SIPphone lets you call users on other popular SIP services like FWD and Iptel as well".

    Also, these are regular BudgeTone model 101s from what I can tell...they're not made by SIPphone, there's no "technology" involved on their part, they're just selling someone elses hardware under their 'brand'.

    -psy
  • Now add Wifi support, and you can have free mobile phone services!

    After that, add a hundred geeks per city who buy a 500 wifi-station, and you have a mobile phone which works for free and has usefull coverage in the city you live! All you need the telco's for then is as ISP's, nothing more.

    Think of the money saved and the change in the way we think of communication...
  • This takes me back to my early days on BBSs, before most people had heard of this crazy e-mail thing. The thought of sending a message halfway around the world in a couple of seconds was absurd. Enter the FIDO Net. For those of you who don't remember or weren't in the shit, the FIDO net worked similar to FedEx's ZAPMail idea, which leapfrogged faxes between offices until it got to its destination. FIDO capable BBSs would spend a couple of hours every night calling other local BBSs and synchronizing their FI
  • I can't see a difference. No lag or anything. We use cisco phones and they are pretty neat (sorry about the plug)..

    I can't wait to have one at home. The only problem is the gateway between VoIP and "normal" phones.
  • Can only call others on the same network? That's the kiss of death since there are already other vendors who allow you to call POTS phones. Example:

    Packet 8 [packet8.net]: $19.95/mo with unlimited US calling or $5.95/mo with 8cents/min

    Voice Pulse [voicepulse.com] : $34.99/mo unlimited, $7.99/mo with 4cents/min

    Vonage [vonage.com] : $39.99/mo unlimited, $29.99/mo with 500 long distance minutes.

    The only restriction with the first two of these services right now is the inability to call 911, but they are working on it. Vonage already has the ability

  • I have a great mobile setup for voip: I run voip software on my zaurus. Then when I'm away from home, I simply connect my zaurus to the internet by using my cellphone as a modem... so I can make voip calls from anywhere!

    <cartmanesque>Kick Ass!</cartmanesque>

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