Too Much Tech Diminishes Work Relationships?

Lansdowne writes "The Seattle Times has an article today on Tim Sanders, a Yahoo exec who claims too much technology may be bad for your health. According to Sanders, small groups of engineers who went to completely electronic communication in their workgroups became 'very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant people.'"

They've been screaming this for years.

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone has always been claiming that once we are all "connected" we will in fact lose our "connection" to the human race. Sure, I am 100% connected, my cellphone lets me surf the web while playing with my IPod and chatting on my laptop while hax0ring a wireless LAN at the hotel down the road. And yes, I am depressed, but thinking back a ways, I always felt that way. It seems like everyone I meet is turned off by all the pr0n I view.

perhaps thge other way around?

[ethelred]

Perhaps the "very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant people" are simply attracted to technology, and not necessary a product of it...?

Flawed experiment (and conclusion!)

[JeffTL]

First off, the experiment involves the fast reduction of quantity of several social relationships. Socialization is habit-forming. You could get the same effect from taking a small group of pot smokers and switching them to tobacco. Second off, the conclusion is fallacious. The problem supposedly demonstrated is not so much too much technology as too little socialization, though for my money, the problem is the sudden removal of habit-forming face-to-face interpersonal communcication.

Does it really matter?

[Angel 666 2003]

Maybe some people dont want to have to interact socially, and messaging your colleague from five feet away certainly severs all social ties. And email is now such an important part of our lives that we use it to exchange information almost as much as we talk face to face. Without email, a good part of the business of any company would immediately be halted due to lack of communication.

Using instant messaging also a more convenient and faster way to interact, although it will never measure up to a real conversation.

NEDS?! Shrinks need jobs

[SunPin]

This is a textbook example of FUD.

Adults need to be responsible for their lives. Yeah, sounds obvious but apparently people are still lost on this point.

Everything has a time and a place. Keep everything in its time and place and keeping your sanity is easy. Get sunshine. Go to the beach. If that's not possible, try a municipal pool.

Life isn't complicated. People in this article want to make it complicated because at some point along the way, they'll profit.

If you stay up until sunrise, down gallons of caffeine and live in chat rooms then that's your decision. The consequences might be depression and isolation. Those who don't like it need to change the variables in their life program.

Re:uhh

[m_chan]

Well, they _are_ in engineering. If they were self-actualized, happy, positive, gregarious, blustering idiots they would be in marketing.

Re:perhaps thge other way around?

[msgmonkey]

You could attach "very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant people" to some of the most talented people in history. I dont think it's restricted to tech.

It could be maybe that IT allows people who may not be comfortable talking face to face due to lack of social interaction to communicate with other people more easily.

Re:perhaps thge other way around?

[dollar70]

Perhaps the "very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant people" are simply attracted to technology, and not necessary a product of it...?

I'm inclined to agree, but I also see the technology as exacerbating the problem. From the article:

"...They took nerd and created monster or troll..."

This is where I see the downward spiral come into play. The obscured moral of the story is that people need to realize the most important under-utilized feature that technology has to offer is the off button.

--
Test your Linux IQ: Press CTRL-ALT-BSP

Balance

[Snake_Plisken]

I work at a large web hosting company. We got a lot of bright people working for us that most of soceity would see as introverted. We got people locked away in secure rooms for most of their shift, etc - the human part is what makes working there a good thing. We are a very social company in the hallways, meeting areas, etc. Most people (including myself) say that they have very good friends at work, but few outside its walls. To a varying degree, we are a big 400 person family where I work - I think people (ok, myself) need to have the human interaction in order to maintain themselves. Technology roxxors, but there needs to be people to talk to, even if it is anime or what level your 3rd edition Ranger is.

Balance

[Squiggle]

Why is it hard to remember?

Focusing your life around *anything* for long periods of time such that you exclude everything that used to keep you healthy and happy is not going to be good for you.

Ignorance is bliss..

[OmniVector]

I've always been a firm believer that if I wasn't as technologically compotent as I am, I'd probably be a much happier person in general. But you can't unlearn, and I've come to realize that I'd rather be aware of technology than let it overleap me.

Re:Attitude

[Kierthos]

Oh, you've worked in tech support?

Let's face it. Technology lets us be freer with our communication. Nothing lets us lie so much as a chat-room. Nothing lets us say what we feel to people across the country or around the world with as little fear of recrimination as IRC. The anti-social behavior could be creeping in when these same people realize that have to cover what has become their "normal" conversation with the pureed bullshit that passes for civil conversation these days.

No, I'm not saying that we all need to speak and act like ever l337 haX0r on IRC, but we need to realize that not everyone is a nice person and that some people would prefer blunt honesty to lying with a smiling face.

Kierthos

Lousy Jobs - Not Computers, make you Depressed

[rudy_wayne]

"The study, which monitored the mental-health changes of 25,000 Japanese high-tech workers over three years, found that employees who worked five hours or more in front of a computer were more prone to depression and anxiety."

Yes, it's true. If you spend several hours at a computer doing menial work that you hate, overseen by a boss you hate (and vice-versa) then you'll most likely become bitter, anxiety ridden and depressed.

On the other hand, I spend several hours a day sitting at a computer doing a job that I love and I'm not the least bit depressed. In fact, I look forward to going to work every day.

People had lousy jobs that sucked and made them depressed long before computers were invented. Let's quit blaming computers for all of society's ills.

Working alone makes you lonely, not computers

[neglige]

I think the problem here is that workers who work alone (with the help of a computer) become lonely. Makes sense. But that is a problem with the surroundings, not with the computer.

I work at the university, couple of hours per day at a computer. Still, the co-workes and I have lunch together, take the time off to grab a coffee, or just wander over into the room next door to have a chat.

So if you feel lonely/depressed, try to work with a group of people (you like - that, of course, is a prerequisite), close to them, maybe in the same room.

And... maybe... don't reload the Slashdot page every minute! (SCNR)

Re:perhaps thge other way around?

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

I'm in the same boat. I only use my laptop and I'm one of the best workers at my company. I also never send email when I can just pick up a phone or walk over to the person and talk to them. No PDA, no instant messaging, no cruft whatsoever.

Tech may increase efficiency, but if it makes a person crazy that hurts the bottom line a lot more.

<cliche>If you acquire to much stuff, your stuff ends up owning you. I can fit my most important possessions in two suitcases.</cliche>

The real problem

[Kostya]

Yes, anyone with some sense and normal social skills will feel the isolation of only using IM and email to communicate. But the real problem, the real source of frustration and stress are, well, the "true jerks".

This may seem obvious, but think about it. If you work remotely, is it that working remotely sucks or that the one real jerk you have to work with is empowered by IM and email to be even a greater jerk than he would normally be. Even real, genuine idiots and losers have no guts and will rarely treat you horribly to your face. But add some remoteness and the sense of safety that comes with email or IM, and you have a horrible working situation.

Sure, the tech can be isolating if you don't have any sense of balance. But what makes it intolerable and a real source of stress are these jerks. Yes, they would still be a jackass in person, but deep down you know they wouldn't have the guts to say what they are saying in email to your face.

Is it technology's fault? No. These people are jerks no matter what--they just use the technology that the rest of us enjoy to be even greater jerks. They are the genuine trolls and the losers who infest USENET--except they act this way in real life. They are everywhere you go--they just are more bold when they can hide behind a computer.

Re:perhaps thge other way around?

[Bluetrust25]

Your post reminds me a little of one of my clients who always calls with huge lists of changes instead of just laying them out in email as bullet points and sending them over.

"Okay, here's the next one, are you ready? Okay. Bold and italicise the words 'previously used' on paragraph two of question three."

Drives me absolutely batty. I get the impression that he read on the MSN home page ten tips to increase his career and tip #8 was something like, "Call, don't email. A personal touch is always appreciated..."

Bah. Just email it to me and I'll take care of it at my earliest convenience, don't call, interrupt me from what I'm doing, and make me transcribe your directions. Not all of us enjoy being interrupted from our work to take notes.

I really like email. It makes my business a lot easier. I just go down the list, taking care of email after email from clients. When I'm done, I can stretch and do something different. Calls interrupt that natural checklist-like flow by forcing me to break off what I'm doing and take care of their issues first. In email I can even be polite and cordial even when I don't feel like it!

You do use email when it's appropriate, right?

The worst ever is when someone calls AND emails. "Hi, I just sent you an email containing a list of changes!"

(You fucking loser!) "Sure. I'll be looking for that shortly. Thanks!"

(click)

Pink Floyd Said it Well

[shoemakc]

What shall we use...To fill...the empty... spaces...Where...we used...to talk?

For some it's drugs, for others booze....and yet for others gadgets. They're always there for you and they never question you.

Rather then develop any sort of lasting personal relationships, a person can just continuely obsess about that new gadget you want. Once i get that new wireless phone/pda, I'll finally be cool; I'll finally be happy.

-Chris

Re:uhh

[bluesangria]

I disagree. That's a typical and often incorrect stereotype. Being analytical and logical has nothing to do with being anti-social. As human beings, we ALL need some kind of human contact to keep us content. An extrovert may desire human contact more often than an introvert, but both still require some.

Further, isolating yourself from people will actually make you are *worse* IT employee or engineer. Why? Because you forget how to put yourself in other people's shoes. By not doing that, you end up designing tools, devices, or software that are counter-intuitive and difficult for people to use. Raise your hand if you've never asked yourself "WHY did they design this gizmo/software this way? It's stupid!"

I'm currently struggling with similar burn-out at work as mentioned in the article. Everyone is so in love with the idea of technology, they've lost sight of whether or not adopting a new technology would actually be beneficial in the longterm. They believe that everything would be "so much better" if it ran on computers, and that's just not the case. I spend hours taking care of servers, networks, software, etc. that I forget why I'm even doing this in the first place and stop caring about the users. After all, I never see any of them.

just my $.02 blue

Did anyone read the article??

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone is saying, "Duh, geeks are antisocial." But the point of the article was (albeit anecdotal) evidence of behavior change that occurred after switching to less human contact. In other words, they may have been antisocial before, but they got worse.

It's a dominance issue.

[Population]

If I want you to drop everything and service me, I am superior.

If I am talking and you are writing, I am superior. Think old time boss and secretary. Boss talks, secretary takes dictation.

Dominance games are usually the worst means of communicating anything other than who is dominant.

Suppose a person who has an emotional need
to establish dominance over others also likes tech toys? There are lots of these people. They buy the latest toy just because it is the latest toy. They have an emotional need to have something before other people have it.

But those toys don't give them the dominance feedback that they also need. They play with their toys and the discover there is something missing that the toys aren't providing.

Get therapy. Find out why you want the newest toys. Find out why using them makes you feel "isolated" and "alone".

I'll send email to someone sitting right next to me. But only if I think he's busy on a project and wouldn't like to be interrupted or if I can more clearly express myself in an email (or to cover my ass by having a digital record).

This isn't about technology. This is about people interacting with other people.

This does not make sense..

[iramkumar]

I went through the article but could not but help noticing that it relied on "anecdotal" and not "scientific" evidence. For example were there any controlled experiments between users and non users of technology ? Were there historical comparisons under different economical conditions ?

People have problems with technology because they dont learn how to use it or what to use it for before using it. For example on getting a cellphone lots of people try to "overuse" them atleast during the initial period because of all the hype about being "always in touch".

Personally I have found that going all electronic has helped me a lot in taking out stress from work relationships. I tend to be free from personal influences and biases and also it helps foster accountability.

Also, it does not mean that I never talk to my coworkers or boss. Every week we play a new "outdoor game" and discover quite a few unique things about each other.

I think most of the problems described by the author is because of the "i got it so i have to use it" mindset. Get that out of the system. Just because we have a new fancy gizmo does not in itself mean that you have to use it fulltime and get you "high" ASAP.

Re:perhaps thge other way around?

[Anonymous Coward]

a me-too post but ..

when I was an undergrad at a hard-core nerd school, we were asked to write (for one of the required Humanities that everone rolled their eyes at) what it was about our school that created so many personal, emotional problems for its students.

My reply was that, as far as I could tell, people showed up with quirks, emotional problems, lack of social skills, etc. It was mostly a self-selecting process as far as I could tell -- not necessariy of the school, but of the type of people that the school attracted (hard core nerds).

We showed up f*ked in the head! And, on average, abnormally high love of technology and computers, fear of girls and a lack of understanding why showering once a day, ironing your clothes, etc. immediately increases your chances of getting laid (though almost _nothing_ works better than a little self confidence and the balls to get shot down by chicks in your search for love: it is probably _their_ loss anyways!).

I think they have cause and effect mixed up. IF you're retreating from humanity (for whatever reasons, being a socially inept nerd is one of them -- I don't know why this _seems_ to go hand in hand) then the computer provides one of those escapes (where non-nerds may get caught up in booze, drugs, sex or whatever else helps you escape from your own life).

It's not different than: does alcohol abuse lead to depression or is it that depressed people tend to drink too much to "forget"?

It's not obvious that it happens one way over the other for every case. The important thing might be to recognize that too much time at the computer, being online (even reading /. at every opportunity, heh) may be an indicator of deeper problems (like say, getting lacquered everyday when you get home from work -- we can all recognize this as a trouble sign right?).

Cause and effect though, I think they have backwards (like my humanities teacher at school).