Longhorn Developers @ MSDN 454
ePIsOdEOnline writes "The official Microsoft Longhorn Developers website went live. Content is filled with information fresh from the PDC, and the host of secrecy swarming Microsoft and its next generation Operating System,
Longhorn"
Wise choice (Score:3, Insightful)
And before we start with the M$ bashing, let's remember that Microsoft can also do some things right, just as the Gnu/Linux community can do some things wrong...
My 2 cents, anyhow.
Loooooonghorn (Score:1, Insightful)
It's a so-called 'guided tour of Longhorn', which consists of no actual imagery, but rather a gigantic step-list of things for you to click on in your Longhorn alpha, to make you go 'ooooh'.
Just brutal. I mean, if its really a 'bet-the-company' strategy, you'd think they'd splash out just a little cash for a Flash or non-ass-looking PPT prez... or even screenshots.... something other than this. Just looks really amateur.
Say what you will, this is one thing Apple clearly understands and Microsoft seems to have no fucking clue about. People want the buzz. Windows fans especially want the buzz so they know WTF they are waiting years for... and I realize its years away and not close to finished... but yet, people are out there toying with these alphas, so they should get on the ball and do a preview page like Apple did for Panther.
(People tell me all the time that Windows 'won' because of 'superior marketing'... I've never believed they were good marketeers.)
Have some Alpo! (Score:2, Insightful)
Their up time average is an astounding 18 days! Max was 112 days. Looks like they are finally learning something!
Now if you could just install service packs and sucurity patches without rebooting. When they get to that point, Server 2003 will be Enterprise Ready!
Netcraft uptime [netcraft.com]
Re:who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not eating their own dogfood? (Score:2, Insightful)
In other words, all the code is written in .NET compatible languages (probably C#, because it sucks less, MS' developers (who are C++ old hands) prefer it, etc.), which is *MANAGED*. If explorer crashes, the virtual machine will pick up the pieces.
This is kind of like Sun's JAVA OS, where everything is managed by the JVM, except .NET is fast, 95% as fast as native, and supports far more languages.
Still I guess some parts of the OS will remain in native mode (I'd be impressed if they did redo all Internet Explorer rendering code in .NET), such as device drivers.
Re:Wise choice (Score:4, Insightful)
Observations (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a developer resource. Take this UI guide on the Sidebar [microsoft.com]. Excellent writing, and finally something which approaches what has made Apple keep the UI edge for all these years.
If an article was posted about the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines [gnome.org] I suspect the crowd would be singing to quite a different tune.
Where is even the slightest bit of objectivity these days?
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't matter, we'll all end up using it (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, we're all bashing Longhorn and Microsoft's ways right now... but come 2006, Microsoft will win once again as millions of businesses and tens of millions of homes upgrade to Longhorn. Even the most hardcore geek will have Longhorn on a partition within a year of its release.
We bashed Win98, but ended up using it anyway. Ditto for Win2K and XP.
Sure, our servers will still run un*x, but as long as we keep using Windows at work for "compatibility" and "familiarity"... and a single innocent Windows box at home "just for games", Microsoft will keep winning.
This is not a flame or a troll, but just a prediction based upon the past. I would like to be proven wrong, though...
Re:who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has provided the tools to make software installation, management of desktop settings, and automatic pushing of patches and service packs completely automatic and easy to do.
If you refuse to use the technology, you deserve what you get.
If you use Win9x/ME, you deserve to be shot.
What the?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop by this section of the LHDC for the latest code samples and tools from Microsoft and the community at large. Even better, if you've built something, put it up for all of us to share!
Share? The largest monopolistic company on the planet encouraging people to share? Does anyone else note a sense of irony?
Re:who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm just trying to point out that if you're going to wait, wait for something worth waiting for. I personally don't see longhorn adding anything that justifies the expense.
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot if you don't think
Re:Interesting comment from Bill (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's call it a two-pronged assault: Linux in the server room and Mac OS X on the home PC is going to make management less likely to believe the MS FUD. Unix won't be so scary to them. And if they start to realize that the computers they use at work suck a whole lot more than the iMac their kids use at home, the wheels will start turning. And when their work computers get infested with the latest virus and their kids say, "Don't worry, Dad, we don't need Norton Anti-Virus because we have a Mac," the wheels will turn some more.
Now, whether or not this happens is a matter of speculation. Maybe Apple will move to 15% desktop marketshare and Linux will get 75% on the server. Who knows? But MS doesn't want to see any marketshare erosion and they're going to fight it tooth and nail, which is why they've geared up for this big effort.
Re:Observations (Score:3, Insightful)
Objectivity? On Slashdot!?! Dude, I want some of what you're smoking!
In response to this and several similar comments...
I might be idealistic and unrealistic when hoping for at least a little objectivity here. But I'd take idealism over cynicism any day
The world will never be perfect, but unless we aspire to be more than what we are there's really no point in existing in the first place, is there?
Some may be content with just doing what they've always done, but the day I stop learning is the day I die.
Re:Observations (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, the only reason Slashdot keeps posting these Microsoft articles (count 'em...at least three in the past two DAYS!) is because all the Linux people have a field day bashing and bashing and bashing.
It's a really poor reflection on this community and makes it seem like they're just a bunch of trolls. Nobody can appreciate the technology anymore because it's "M$."
Could you imagine how nice this site would be if it was nothing but mature veteran UNIX hackers who calmly and rationally discussed the next version of Windows and how it fits into their computing paradigm? If it was just something they talked about (maybe even praised) and then moved on. Instead, we get "M$ IS CHANGING THEIR BSOD INTO 3D!!!1 HAHA" (+5 Funny)."
If anybody knows of a "News for Nerds" type site that doesn't have a corporate-owned agenda (*cough* Slashdot), could someone direct me to it?
Is Slashdot pro-Linux or anti-Microsoft? I'd rather see more Linux articles than Microsoft articles on the front page, so what happened that changed Slashdot into a Microsoft news site?
Re:who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
My With Longhorn, you can even write your own XML-based installation scripts.
Ok. Well, I can do this on linux today. In fact, I already have done it (I use an XML-based install/update script for a large application I'm developing). But I can even accomplish it with a simple call to rsync. No hidden settings, no scattered dll files. If I want, an application installs all in one directory. rsync that directory, and thats it- applications are updated and/or installed automatically.
Of course, I could also wait 3 years for windows to get to this point.
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot if you don't think .NET, WinFS, Avalon, and the rest of the Longhorn technologies aren't better than crappy old 2k.
I didn't say that they aren't better than 2k. In fact, you even quoted me saying "not worth waiting for". I don't think they are. I'm not totally convinced on .NET, a lot of it is marketing fluff, and it's being controlled by a corperation that will change everything, if it meets their business needs at the time (it's hard to maintain an application when the API is not totally documented and will randomly change).
Avalon has been done (XUL), and is cross-platform. I don't see the point in waiting 3 years for a proprietary version that's less mature.
WinFS is about the most interesting development, but worth the headaches of windows? Probably not. There are similar concepts in development for other OS's anyways.
Re:Wise choice (Score:3, Insightful)
How? For the next few years, the trade press will be comparing everything to the "forthcoming and much-anticipated next release of Windows." It won't matter how good, or tangible, non-Microsoft products are now, only how they compare to the potential of Longhorn. Microsoft's hype machine in action. The final product never lives up to the hype *cough*cairo -- but in the meantime, competing products have to compete with press releases and promises, rather than actual shipping products.
Re:Yes and NO.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah, finally somebody with some benchmarks.
Link?
The browser end-game (Score:4, Insightful)
Finally, it is worth noting that Windows executables can be hosted in a window (by default) as well as in the browser.
For Longhorn, desktop executables are the next version of today's Windows Forms client-side apps. On the other hand, XAML and browser-hosted applications represent an evolution of today's client-side programming model to work over the Web. Right now, existing client-side applications can rarely be deployed over the Web. If you want to embed a Windows Forms form into a browser page, you'll get a reduced feature set and have to tweak bits and pieces of your code. With Longhorn, the common application model will let you write one application and deploy it over the Web. However, the final application is Longhorn-specific--very different from a traditional Web application like ASP.NET.
Sigh. I remember when the web was based on open standards...
Re:It doesn't matter, we'll all end up using it (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux and Apple now have three years to change that. MS has now told everyone they won't have anything new to show until 2006. Since OS X is pretty much now what Longhorn promises then, Apple can make huge strides during this period. Likewise, all the governments and companies considering Linux have 3 years to decide whether to get off the MS forced march or not.
And what are the compelling business features? 1. We get to rewrite all our custom apps that work just fine to use new APIs! 2. We get to buy all new computers for our employees with 4GHz processors and 1TB disks so the file open dialog box can be 3D and texture mapped with moving video! Or something. (ps The Longhorn graphics features run on current Apple hardware in OS X now.)
Meanwhile, MS is already starting to see revenue losses due to companies hesitant to upgrade because of security concerns.
I'm starting to feel almost bad for MS. Nah, not really.
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
Re:Have some Alpo! (Score:3, Insightful)