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Privacy Technology

Ready or Not, Biometrics Finally in Stores 317

cancer4xmas writes: "It's very exciting to see USA Today's Technology front page saying, "Will that be cash, fingerprint or cellphone?" They're running a story on emerging biometric devices being the most fundamental change in personal finance since 1950, when the credit card was introduced. The concept is now being tested in some stores. Check out the full story." Now couple that tidbit with this morsel from wherley: "In a letter [scroll down a bit] to Bruce Schneier's Cryptogram newsletter, Ton van der Putte tells of a recent invitation from the BBC to comment on the addition of fingerprint biometrics to the British ID card. Using a digital camera and UV lamp he was able to make dummy fingerprints that fooled the readers - and in less time and less cost than similar experiments 10 years ago. He says: '...now the average do-it-yourselfer is able to achieve perfect results and requires only limited means and skills.'"
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Ready or Not, Biometrics Finally in Stores

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  • Free stuff! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by FattMattP ( 86246 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:22PM (#7499157) Homepage
    How long before theives chop off people's fingers and buy stuff with it? It's not like you can be reissued a new fingerprint.
  • Ouch (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MikeXpop ( 614167 ) <mike@noSPAM.redcrowbar.com> on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:22PM (#7499159) Journal
    I remember I read awhile ago in some magazine how BMW had the technology to use biometrics in place of keys. The reason they didn't was that someone brought up this idea.

    Carjacker + knife + need for your finger = not a pretty scene.

    That's kind of kept me off of Biometrics for awhile. Now where'd my tin foil hat go...
  • by mooface ( 674033 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:23PM (#7499165)

    As someone working in biometrics and algorithm development, I would personally like to BEG the press to stop with the awful articles.

    Almost every article says the same thing, makes awful assumptions, comments on the privacy issue, and generally screws the pooch.

    Misconceptions and overhype can kill technologies for years....
  • by Fux the Penguin ( 724045 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:24PM (#7499172) Journal
    The system in this article is voluntary, and that's great. So long as it's only volutary, I'm all for this.

    One potential problem becomes what's "voluntary" soon becomes mandatory. We might as well learn from history. Two specific examples from US history:

    (1) The Social Security Number was ~never~ supposed to be used as any kind of central identification number. Now, no one knows who I am without it. I would gladly dump my social security "promises of benefits" to not have a social security number.

    (2) To get a driver's license in the state I moved to, I had to give a thumbprint. I've never had fingerprints taken before in my life.

    Are we safer as a result? All I know is that now my identity can be more easily tracked by central governmental organizations and those with sufficent access privileges, despite my wishes.

    Technology is a tool, not a solution. Just like a hammer, it can be used for much good, but it's easy for those in power to convert it into something pretty sinister. If it's all the same, I'll keep my ATM card. It's a lot easier to change my bank account number than my fingerprint or eyeball.
  • by nanowyatt ( 196190 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:27PM (#7499198)
    Using a credit card typically requires a signature to match against the one on the card's back. Using an ATM/debit card requires a numerical code to match with the bank's records. Are biometrics really a good replacement for the card, or would they be a better replacement for the signature or ATM code? As there will be a secondary piece of ID anyway, why tie up the fingerprint with all the bank info, when the print could be just tied to the ID?
  • by BWJones ( 18351 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:27PM (#7499200) Homepage Journal
    Using a digital camera and UV lamp he was able to make dummy fingerprints that fooled the readers - and in less time and less cost than similar experiments 10 years ago. He says: '...now the average do-it-yourselfer is able to achieve perfect results and requires only limited means and skills.'"

    This is the whole problem with market driven products as opposed to product driven products. Companies rush to produce a product and get it to market to capture some degree of market share even though their product may suck. We have endured years of this under the Microsoft paradigm in that Microsoft advertises years in advance what products they are going to produce, sets a time-line, and then by-god the products will ship by that date. Never mind the quality. I much prefer Apple's way of doing things in that they do not talk about what they are doing, and they then ship a product when it is done. Meanwhile the rest of the computer industry is busy copying Microsofts strategy and the quality of software for the most part is slipping down the tubes.

    Products such as biometrics especially needs to be completely wrung out to determine if it can be faked. They did not, it can be, but what do you bet they take it to market anyway?

  • Re:Ouch (Score:2, Insightful)

    by MikeXpop ( 614167 ) <mike@noSPAM.redcrowbar.com> on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:31PM (#7499233) Journal
    No one's going to come in with a severed finger. That's preposterous. However, with a finger, I could peel off the skin, then attatch it over my finger with a little bit of tape or glue. No one would be any the wiser unless they specifically looked at my hands.

    Imagine the idendity thefts of dead people. Not a pretty site.
  • Re:Ouch (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Uma Thurman ( 623807 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:44PM (#7499307) Homepage Journal
    Why go through all that trouble when it's just much easier to keep pressing your thumb on the panel, getting the rejection, until the 16 year old at the register gets sick of you holding up the line and hits the bypass key on the register?

    These things are going to be so flakey. Even something as simple as a mag-stripe reader on a credit card sometimes takes 10 swipes to read on one reader, and just 1 on another.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:44PM (#7499309)
    Where's your damn rebuttal. If you're gonna try to dismiss criticism, at least back it up.
  • by Rassleholic ( 591097 ) <rassleholic@gmail.com> on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:44PM (#7499312) Homepage
    ...now I get to stand in line behind a dumb-blonde soccer mom, some kids goofing with the hardware...

    Place a kid within 5 feet of a button and he/she will inevitably press it. Repeatedly.
  • by Nailer ( 69468 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:45PM (#7499313)
    As someone working in biometrics and algorithm development

    Could you please tell me how I change my secret when its compromised? Yes, seriously.
  • by Zebbers ( 134389 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:47PM (#7499327)
    those were awesome counterarguments from an unbiased industry insider
  • by LostCluster ( 625375 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:53PM (#7499360)
    So your fingerprint becomes your SpeedPass or EZ-Pass... so what? Neither existing system is actually a financial system, they're an identifer that tracks back to an existing credit card number, that's the actual financial account.

    So, really, what's the incentive for a consumer to want to use their fingerprint rather than something hanging on their keychain or in their wallet. Yeah, the keychain or wallet can be stolen... but safety laws already exist to protect your accounts.

    In short, the current system isn't that broken... this solution has privacy concerns attached. Seems like the answer to a question nobody's asking...
  • Simple Solution (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dr. Mu ( 603661 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @11:55PM (#7499371)
    So shine an LED through the finger to see if there's a pulse. Those portable heart rate monitors are cheap, so the technology can't add that much to the final cost.
  • Re:LOL (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Zebbers ( 134389 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:07AM (#7499435)
    everyone has said this
    umm
    chop
    slice
    attach print to bottom of real finger
    wa-la
  • by aXis100 ( 690904 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:35AM (#7499592)
    And what about a 4 digit PIN number? 1 in 1000 people will have the same code. The trick is to not use biometrics as the primary key, but instead use it as an overall means of verification.

    For instance - How much less credit card fraud would there be if you had to verify not by signiature, but by fingerprint? Much harder to reproduce *quickly* by a purse snatcher / pickpocket.
  • by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:36AM (#7499597)
    But rather stealing the representation of my finger.

    When the credit card db gets hacked (and it's happened several times), you just have to cancel it and get issued a new card.
    When the fingerprint db gets hacked, they can't issue me a new finger.

    A fleshcolored, spit wetted, rubber sleeve over a finger, with a copy of someone elses finger would work quite well, and be undectable by the minimally interested checkout line clerk.
  • Re:Ouch (Score:5, Insightful)

    by orthogonal ( 588627 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:36AM (#7499600) Journal
    In the systems (I am not sure if it is only in advanced systems), there is a requirement for actual sweat to run into the machine

    I hope Joey Slowy, the illiterate and not-so-bright thief with the crack habit and the carving knife, is fully apprised of the safeguards in place to prevent him from using my severd thumb, before it occurs to him that my thumb is the answer to his temporary lack of his preferred illegal intoxicant.

    Be so good as to travel to the local homeless encampment, interrupt his crack-induced reveries, and inform him so, will you?
  • Theyre everywhere! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cybercuzco ( 100904 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:37AM (#7499607) Homepage Journal
    If all you need is a fingerprint, then everyone will be wearing gloves soon. We leave fingerprints everywhere! New crime of the future: Person gets your fingerprint of a glass or a door or some other public place and racks up a mint. Say what you will about credit cards, at least you dont leave yoru credit card number, expiration date and billing address on every surface you touch. Theres something to be said about slightly insecure systems. The less secure something is the less easy it is to steal, since people are more suspicious of insecure systems then they are of supposedly "secure" systems. I can see a day where your credit card number is quantum encrypted on a microchip implanted in yoru skull. And the ability to dispute charges will no longer exist of course, because the system is unbreakable! Except for the short, easily memorizable password needed to unlock the quantum encryption. We can seethis already with identity theft. Now that youre identifiable by a number (instead of in person, as in the old days) anyone with access to that number is you, and everyone believes that its you, because the system is supposed to be secure.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:48AM (#7499664)
    You don't need to fake a credit card, just nab one and it's all yours until the owner reports it missing! Merchants don't bother checking to see whether or not the card is yours, even if your PHOTO is on it, much less your signature!

    Preface: I am posting AC and not naming any names here.

    In the mid-to-late 1990s, when the phrase "identity theft" had first entered the lexicon but before the media discovered how well they could capture audiences with its mere mention, I worked with a card issuer on a so-called "secure card" test program. The idea was twofold: merchants were getting complacent in terms of trying to verify that the person presenting the card was actually the cardholder, and credit card fraud was an increasing problem.

    The proposed solution to both dilemmas was to issue cards with the cardholder's PHOTOGRAPH on the FRONT of the card. We'd indemnify cardholders against any fraudulent purchases (as opposed to beyond the first $50.. it was a novel idea back then) for any bogus transaction made with one of these photocards. Cashiers weren't bothering to check the back for a signature, but surely they'd see if the photo on the front matched the person making the purchase, right? LOL.

    Existing cardholders were allowed to volunteer for the test program by responding to an insert in their bill. Along with the application, they had to send in a photocopy of their drivers' license, and a small color photograph of themselves which was easily identifiable as the same person in the drivers license photo. About 10,000 such cards were eventually issued, with surveys included and sent as a follow-up to see what the cardholders encountered. During the test period, here are a few interesting things we found.

    1... Merchants weren't checking the photo, even though it was right there as a 1.5" x 1.5" image on the front left side of the card.

    Many cardholders reported no problem giving their spouse the card to use, where the photo wasn't even the same sex as the person making the purchase.

    There were a lot of folks surprised that cashiers didn't even notice the photograph.

    There were a lot MORE folks surprised that cashiers noticed the photograph but paid it no attention. For example, female customer would use card issued to JOHN DOE with a picture of a man on the card, no questions asked by merchant.

    2... Merchants who did check the photo were overly attentive.

    People who had changed hairstyles, dyed their hair, grown or shaved facial hair since the photo had been taken, or even gained or lost weight were having their cards refused because the photo wasn't a "perfect" match.

    If a card was not outright refused due to appearance changes, a store manager was often called by the cashier, or some other delay was introduced into the purchase, inconveniencing both the cardholder and the merchant.

    3... Some of the merchant services reps around the country were issued temporary expense cards with someone else's name and photograph on them (intentionally, as part of the test).

    These cards were set to return a "Call" response on transaction attempts, which tells the merchant they need to call the card issuer to get special instructions before accepting the card.

    Many merchants ignored the response and ran the transaction through as a "Force" process without bothering to see if there was a problem with the card. In live circumstances this would have resulted in a chargeback to the merchant with no recourse.

    Merchants who did call were instructed to check the ID of the customer against the name and photo on the card. In nearly half of these cases, the merchants wound up doing a Force anyway (another chargeback). The reps were told to try and explain it away - "Oh that's my boyfriend's card" etc - and it worked pretty well.

    4... Though this obviously is not the party line... Credit cards are as good as cash but provide next to zero security. Ask yourself when was the last time you tried making a purchase on plastic a
  • What about... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jeffkjo1 ( 663413 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:55AM (#7499714) Homepage
    What about people who are missing digits? I have an professor that is missing is ring finger completely. Now, I imagine this would be more focused on thumb prints or you index finger, but I'm sure that there are more than a few people who are missing the fingers of choice for a project like this.
  • by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @12:58AM (#7499727) Journal
    The weakest link in the chain being, of course, human stupidity. Specifically, I'm referring to personal identification numbers that we use at ATM's and direct payment tills. Some people choose really stupid passwords like their birthdate or some other info that is easy to discover, which is why I say that the weakest link in this system is human stupidity.

    When I pay for something by debit, I enter a private PIN number to complete the transaction. If the pin is incorrect, the whole transaction needs to be repeated. After a certain number of attempts (usually no more than 3 or 4), a retailer will simply refuse to honor the card at that time (more often than not suggesting that perhaps the card may need to be replaced by the bank). ATM's are exactly the same way... after a certain number of failed attempts, the atm will simply keep the card and I have to wait for the bank to mail out a new one.

    Now like it or not, systems which work by scanning fingerprints *CAN* be fooled consistently by a sufficiently technically minded individual. Systems which require a secretly selected (and well chosen) authentication number cannot be fooled by any means other than sheer lucky guessing (and you'll run out of tries long before your odds of guessing right even approach being something more than negligible). IMO, that's about as foolproof as we're ever going to get (unless or until it becomes technologically possible to read other people's thoughts).

  • Re:Free stuff! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sfe_software ( 220870 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @01:40AM (#7499967) Homepage
    I'm pretty sure people would be quick about getting the word out that their finger was just chopped off... Unless they were dead, in which case they wouldn't care anyway.

    I agree, and the real point is, if someone is willing to go that far, certainly cash or a credit card suffer the same shortcomings... you can much more easily pick one's pocket than lop off their finger. And if someone goes as far as killing someone, I'm sure they'd think it much easier to just take the person's credit cards and cash than their finger (which in most cases is simply linked to one of said credit cards).
  • by mesocyclone ( 80188 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @01:54AM (#7500048) Homepage Journal
    I wish all the critics of security systems would quit demanding that they be perfect.

    Every security system known can be broken (including one time pads - if you human engineer a way into getting one of pads - which has been done in the past by secretly capturing one user of a pad, and forcing him to carry on the conversation while relaying the information to his captors).

    But the harder a system is to break, the more it deters the use of false or stolen identities.

    For example, to replace pictures with biometrics would be stupid. To add biometrics increases the difficulty of the forget. Etc.

    A useful authentication system would be one where it takes a lot of work to forge a single identity, and that work would have to be repeated to forge another one. Biometrics in common with other systems have the promise of making such systems.

    When I last worked with biometrics (a long time ago), the problem was that you could not get an acceptable false positive rate at the same time that you got an acceptable false negative rate. But when biometrics are combined with other systems, you can allow higher false positives (and hence fewer false negatves = rejections), because the other systems add security. And the whole thing becomes harder to break, making it less worthwhile to break unless you try to protect something way too valuable with it.

    Unfortunately, security in computers has often been viewed as identical with cryptography. The result is that serious and smart cryptographers, like Bruce Schnier become "the experts" on security. But mathematics tends to bias people towards openness, provability and precision. Thus many security techniques which do in fact work with real human beings (such as keeping secrets, if you are smart about it) are often decried by them. In other words, Schnier and others make public pronouncements that are out of their true field of expertise.

    If you want to find people who truly understand security, check with the military or banks. They have been dealing with security for millenia. They take a different attitude from cryptographers.

    They understand that in most systems, security is a cost/risk tradeoff, not an absolute. Hence they use one or more techniques for a particular security need. A simple ID card might get you into a military base, while to get into some facilities requires the ID card, a special ID, the knowledge of safe door combinations, and perhaps personal recognition by another trusted individual. None of these techniques is perfect by itself, but the combination is remarkably formidable.

    Thus biometrics represent a a technique that can be used to enhance security. Can it be defeated? Yes, by itself. How easy is it to defeat? It depends on a number of factors, but especially what other security measures are used along with the biometrics, and how their parameters are set.

  • by dido ( 9125 ) <dido&imperium,ph> on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @03:52AM (#7500470)

    Well, you're absolutely correct, but you've veered a bit from the mark. It seems that the advocates of biometric identification are not interested in using biometrics to augment existing security procedures, but to replace these procedures, and they seem to be gushing that biometric "authentication" is a silver bullet, or something very close to it. Few banks, and no military or intelligence agency in their right mind would be so foolish as to believe that. If you've taken the time to even read the article I linked to, you'd see that Schneier isn't advocating that we not use biometrics at all, but that we not treat them as keys. They have their uses, especially when combined with real keys and other authentication schemes, but to use them alone for authentication isn't generally a good idea.

    Granted, sole biometric identification is better than some present identification methods, and could replace them in those areas, where the risk is not high enough to justify the use of more expensive and complex procedures, but does it give sufficient security for many of the domains to which it is being applied? I think not. Biometrics raise the bar a bit, but not high enough to be used on their own for many of the applications to which people want to put them to use.

    By the way, you're highly out of date about Schneier's present views on security. If you've taken the time to read his many writings over the years, you'll see how much his attitude towards security has changed since the days of Applied Cryptography, where he naively talks about "protecting ourselves with mathematics." His most famous maxim is now "Security is a process, not a product," and he keeps constantly talking about how security is all about risk management, not risk avoidance. Exactly what you're saying, isn't it? Have a look at Secrets and Lies and the Crypto-Gram archive sometime.

  • by RayBender ( 525745 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2003 @08:35AM (#7501069) Homepage
    Ofcourse people will be able to make fake prints or find ways to circumvent the biometric system. But, what system is fully flawless? The best thing to do would be to start using biometrics without 100% reliance on them till we are confident enough and experienced enough to stay ahead of the criminals in preventing misuse. Transition will be a pain for some time, but once the system has established itself, it will make our lives much easier.


    Not a good argument. Listen, people can't fly, but let's jump off the nearest 10-story building, and we'll learn how to fly on the way down. I mean, the advantages of being able to fly must outweigh any conceivable drawbacks, no?


    The flaw with your argument is that biometric identifiers, once compromised, cannot be changed. What happens if you get your fingerprints lifted? A finger transplant? No, at that point your only choice is to have some sort of fraud alert put on your fingerprint, and then you can no longer use it. So it's useless for you, forever. If you'd read the article you'd see that the authors complained that they discovered critical flaws in fingerprint readers ten years ago, including that they could be fooled using fake gelatin fingers, and they still haven't fixed that. You think Microsoft is bad, leaving IIS unpatched for three months? Try ten years... The only conclusion is that the readers can't be fixed.


    Blind adoption of some shiny new technology without at least some foresight is too common, and really, really stupid. Electronic voting is another great example of this...

  • Re:Ouch (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bedessen ( 411686 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2003 @02:21AM (#7508886) Journal
    I don't see how checking temperature could possibly help. The tip of your finger is about the most extreme in terms of extremities and blood flow, and it will never be anywhere close to core body temperature. How many times have you shaken someone's hard and reeled back at their cold fingers? Or how many times have you messed with someone by putting your cold hand on the back of their neck? Are we to make everyone in line keep their hands in their pockets at all times, so that no one has cold hands? Will mittens be government issue and required when going anywhere so that the fingerprint readers don't get confused?

If all else fails, lower your standards.

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