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Hong Kong's Lessons on Number Portability 205

Posted by CmdrTaco from the learning-from-history dept.
Dr.Hair writes "Dan Gillmor once again hits the nail on the head with his comparison of Hong Kong's competitive mobile phone market to the United States. Experiences of incumbent carriers trying to thwart competition and stifle the free market in Hong Kong should be remembered as the FCC nudges US carriers to carry out number portability. In the end competition should provide better customer service, better coverage, and better pricing in the US, all of which will eat in to carrier profits. But it also might bring the US out of the tech backwaters, where customer lock-in is the marketing strategy and "innovation" is the spin of the day."
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Hong Kong's Lessons on Number Portability More

Hong Kong's Lessons on Number Portability

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  • I feel like a kid on Christmas eve waiting for tomorrow. Not only will I be able to switch carriers while hanging onto my number, but I can't wait to see the consumers finally regain some of the power over mobile phone companies. Customer service has gone to shit, but starting tomorrow, companies will be forced to be accountable for how they treat the customer, the quality of service they provide, and the overall price of what they offer. Only a few hours to go... Monday can't get here soon enough.
    • I'm going right after school tomorrow to get my new phone and make the switch final. If your planning on switching you probably should have contacted the carrier your considering beforehand. I know cingular had a pre-number port form on their website you could fill out thats supposed to make it go quicker tomorrow. Name, address, phone number to be switched, old carrier etc.

    • Why Not Wait (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MBCook ( 132727 )
      Why not wait? Unless you phone service is so terrible that it's barly usable, hang on for a month or two. By then, competition should be in swing and you should be able to get a much better deal, without having to switch twice (like if you switched to get a better deal after switching tomarrow).

      Just an idea.

    • Customer service has gone to shit, but starting tomorrow, companies will be forced to be accountable for how they treat the customer, the quality of service they provide, and the overall price of what they offer.

      I also heard there will be world peace, no more hungry children, and SCO's corporate headquarters will burst into flames.
      I hope we aren't dissapointed...
    • Im with AT&T. Im happy with them as a company, and their price plan is good. However, and its a major however, their service sucks near my house. I have to go all the way to the front or back of my house (and usually need to go outside) to have a conversation. Also, the phone wont work at all in my basement (it doesnt even ring).

      Its not a signal issue, per se, because I can use it downtown inside of huge office buildings. I called their tech support, and essentially got the answer that they arent d

      • GSM is the US is pretty backwards so far, but as long as you are in AT&T serviced areas your coverage should be better or at least the same. just get a phone that does both 850mhz and 1900mhz, don't skimp on the 850.
      • a) I work in attws customer service, we ARE still maintaining the TDMA network.
        b) you can switch plans all you want without a contract extension, its accepting the new PROMOTIONS that extends the contract, do a plan with no promos and you dont have to extend
        • Im just going by what I was told. I contacted their tech support, not just the customer service, and while they didnt say they werent doing support anymore (that was what I read into it), they DID tell me that the only way my service would be acceptable would be to get a GSM phone. A completely unacceptable answer, IMO.

          I told them that while Im out shopping for another phone, I may as well see if my neighbors have service from other companies which actually works inside their house. The support guy said

  • Similar in the UK (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:39PM (#7542853) Journal
    All mobile numbers are obliged to start 07, for the sake of portability and also to let people know they're calling a mobile phone (so it'll be more expensive).

    Having said that, I changed my number last time - because the new one was much easier to remember :-)

    Simon.
    • Number portability is about moving the same number across different mobile networks, which we have been able to do at least since 2000 (when I did it).

      It is not about starting mobile numbers with 07 etc (IIRC, all mobile numbers in HK have to begin with a 9 or a 6 and all fixed lines, residential or sommercial start with 2 or 3 or only have 7 digits.).

      • Hm. I'm pretty sure we couldn't in '99 (well, I was told I couldn't, when I tried to move from Orange to Vodaphone).

        I remember one of the claimed benefits of the standardisation of numbers in the UK was easy portability between networks. and I do understand the meaning of the word ....

        Simon.
    • Thankyou for highlighting what the original submission ignored: that the HK issue is relevant outside the USA!

    • Re:Similar in the UK (Score:4, Interesting)

      by weave ( 48069 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @04:32PM (#7543409) Journal
      The difference in the U.S. is number portability extends to landline phones too. So I can move my home phone number to my mobile phone and disconnect forever my landline. This is why the RBOCs (landline providers) are fighting this so hard.

      The only reason the US can get away with this is because the owner of the phone pays for both incoming and outgoing calls. It doesn't cost the caller anything extra to call a mobile phone.

  • Only in Hong Kong (Score:4, Funny)

    by Pingular ( 670773 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:39PM (#7542854)
    can schoolchildren type 70wpm with their thumbs.
    • Of course not. The cell phone air time in Hongkong is so cheap that even schoolchildren don't text that much... Competition is the key.

      Here in New Zealand, schoolchildren text a lot. University students text a lot too... Reason is simple: NZ$1.4/min at daytime on the prepaid plans, which is what most people on budget are in. If you talk just 30 min in NZ on that plan, you can get a 1500 min plan in HongKong.... I guess it is more than sufficent for most.... In fact, quite a few of my friends in HK ha
    • can schoolchildren type 70wpm with their thumbs.

      Nope. Most schoolchildren in Scandinavia can do that too. They have even evolved a special language much like the internet codes (e.g. IMHO, YMMV etc.)

  • Every Company Seeks a monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:39PM (#7542857)
    And its the governments job to see they don't get it. Free markets aren't a naturally occuring phenomena any more than a bonsai tree. The FCC would do very well to remember this.

    If you look at the current homogenized radio market you could argue that the FCC has encouraged filesharing by ruining radio. Television the less said the better. At least, there is hope for phones and the internet.

    • Re:Every Company Seeks a monopoly (Score:4, Interesting)

      by blmatthews ( 231533 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:59PM (#7542971)
      Originally bonsai *were* naturally occuring phenomena, it's only after all the stunted trees growing on rocks in the mountains were found and removed that people started shaping their own bonsai.

      I agree with your main points though.

    • I'm sorry? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by s20451 ( 410424 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @03:40PM (#7543178) Journal
      I couldn't possibly disagree more with your post. Firstly, the one thing that unites just about every civilization since Sumeria is a free market. The practice of barter is just about the most ancient one in human history.

      Secondly, I would argue that the FCC contributes to a poor market in this case, by shutting out all but a few players. These companies have licenses which amount to an effective monopoly over a segment of bandwidth. They have little incentive to be good to their customers, since the range of competition is also limited and like-minded.

      Ironically, the reason why the FCC exists is to allocate interference-free frequecy bands, but the most advanced communication methods in use (i.e., spread spectrum) are expressly designed to tolerate interference. Perhaps the FCC has outlived its usefulness.
      • the one thing that unites just about every civilization since Sumeria is a free market. The practice of barter is just about the most ancient one in human history.

        Prostitution has a long history but it's not correct to therefore claim that every civilization is united by an appreciation of sexuality. Barter took place in Stalinist Russia, but did not constitute a free market. In addition to producers and consumers, a free market requires barriers to competition that are low; this will virtually never o

      • Re:I'm sorry? (Score:3, Informative)

        by misterpies ( 632880 )
        >>Firstly, the one thing that unites just about every civilization since Sumeria is a free market. The practice of barter is just about the most ancient one in human history.

        no no no. don't confuse the existence of trade with free markets. Even in the Soviet Union you had to pay for food. There's no nation on earth that actually practices a truly free market -- they all have subsidies and import/export tariffs and restrictions that unfairly discriminate against at least some foreign imports. And many
      • I believe you are misusing the term free market. Given the fact that it is something of a political hobbyhorse for various interests this is not surprising.

        I am the first to say that I am not an expert on sumer, but unless they had a system in place that taxed uniformly, gave no preferential treatment to subgroups or particular individuals, provided no subsidies or incentives for otherwise non economic reasons, they didn't have a free market.

        Perhaps you mean an efficient market ? One where prices are
    • And its the governments job to see they don't get it.

      No, it isn't.

      It's the government's job to ensure that monopolies don't unfairly use their market dominance, and that shared spaces use the same standards.

      Free Market Capitalism is the best measure of which markets should be monopolized and which ones do best when not monopolized.

      If you look at the current homogenized radio market you could argue that the FCC has encouraged filesharing by ruining radio.

      A better argument would be that the FCC has a

    • I don't see what this has to do with monopolies. Number portability does decrease the switching costs of consumers, but it doesn't give any company more of an advantage or disadvantage, and it's not going to change the number of companies on the market because it's regulated by the FCC.

      Many economists would argue that the only true monopolies are those granted by the government - gas companies, local phone companies, cable companies, ect.

      The interesting thing is that one of the most innovative and prof

    • And its the governments job to see they don't get it.

      Really? Then how do explain that governments create monopolies all the time? Until relatively recently even in the UK, it was illegal to compete with British Telecom. It is still illegal to compete with Royal Mail for deliveries costing under a pound. A lot of deregulation happened in the 80s, breaking up the old monopolies in telecoms, gas, steel, etc and forcing them to compete.

      In fact, no company can become a monopoly, or sustain a monopoly without

  • Oh God No! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Quasar1999 ( 520073 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:40PM (#7542867) Journal
    If this is going to make the US more like Hong Kong, then God help us all! I don't want to be in a restroom stall listening to 20 other guys talking on the phone... That was ackward to say the least...
    • I don't want to be in a restroom stall listening to 20 other guys talking on the phone... That was ackward to say the least...

      Were they talking to each other???
      • The bathroom is a great place to talk to someone you especially despise. The owners of my rental hired a particularly annoy piece of crap to sell the house. She would call at all hours to give me twenty minutes notice that she wanted to show the house. I made it a point to answer her mid-stream when ever biologically possible. Pretty funny to hear her pause when she realized what I was doing.

    • Even Worse (Score:5, Funny)

      by Angram ( 517383 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:58PM (#7542964)
      It's got to be easier when there are a lot of them. There are one or two guys in my hallway (I'm a college student living in a dorm) who talk on their cell phones in the bathroom. We've only got 3 stalls, they don't do it often, and it's usually talking to a girlfriend. It's quite unnerving hearing people say "I love you," out of nowhere in the stall next to you.

  • We Need the Phones Changed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:46PM (#7542896) Homepage
    We need the phones changed and I suspect that it will happen soon with number portability going into effect.

    Things will be interesting for a while starting tomarrow as people take advantage of this new policy, but I think soon enough we'll see the phones change to everyone's benefit.

    OK, I've said that 3 times now, so what do I mean? I mean that right now my Sprint phone wouldn't work if I go to AT&Ts network or Cingular's network or someone else. They all use different systems. It's mentioned at the end of the article that that just isn't the case in Hong Kong (and I believe in Japan and Europe and other places where they have number protability). The having to get a new phone part is still going to be a little bit of a wrench in this plan, but soon enough one or two carriers will try to make it so competitors phones will work on their network and maybe we'll end up with a standard (or just 3 standards that work everywhere). When this happens, our mobile phone market will be better.

    It's about time this is fixed. Imagine if the government allowed TV to develop this way. You'd either be able to watch NBC, CBS, or ABC, but not all 3 unless you had 3 TVs. And if you tried to switch, you'd have to buy a new TV. Yeesh.

    Horray for number portability, it's time to let the free market decide what sucks so things can improve more.

    • In England you have to have your phone "unlocked" to use it on another network. The process isn't legal, but small shops will do it for about 10 quid.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • In Britain, all four providers use GSM.


          I have to correct you here: In Britain there are Five providers, and the newest, 3 [three.co.uk], uses 3G CDMA, although it does use a SIM card. You are correct in that Orange, Vodafone, O2 and T-Mobile use GSM though.

          Steve.
      • In England you have to have your phone "unlocked" to use it on another network. The process isn't legal, but small shops will do it for about 10 quid.

        This is entirely dependent on the network you use. Orange lock all of their phones, whereas Vodaphone generally don't (although a few of their recent Live! offerings have been locked). The process of unlocking the phone is completely legal in a lot of cases. I used to have a Siemens SL42e on Orange. You could unlock it by sending it to an official Sieme

        • The process of unlocking the phone is completely legal in a lot of cases.

          It's 100% legal in all cases. You own the phone, you can unlock the SP lock if you wish - there is absolutely nothing illegal about it, that's why you see it advertised in shop windows etc.

          Changing the IMEI number (GSM serial number, basically) is illegal, however because this is what the CEIR blocklist [gsmworld.com] for stolen phones it based upon. You can see your IMEI on a GSM handset by ptying *#06#

    • Your mobile phone has nothing to do with number portability.

      Phones in the places you have mentioned, such as Hong Kong, use GSM mobile phone networks, at either 800 MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz or 1900MHz. North America uses 1900MHz GSM networks, which are not used in many places elsewhere. In Europe and Asia, GSM phones are made dual band, that is, they are able to cater to 2 frequencies, the 2 common ones. A different (and oftentimes more expensive) phone is needed if you wish to use it in the US, a tri-band pho
      • GSM networks do exist in North America. T-Mobile's network is GSM, AT&T offers GSM coverage in a few large cities.

        More than a few large cities. AT&T is rolling out GSM to all of their service area, and have done most or all of the major metro areas already:

        AT&T Wireless GSM map [attwireless.com]

        Cingular has done the same:

        Cingular CSM map [cingular.com]

        AT&T and Cingular were the two major TDMA networks in the US, and have are converting to GSM.

    • "I mean that right now my Sprint phone wouldn't work if I go to AT&Ts network or Cingular's network or someone else. They all use different systems."

      This is only kinda true, and for two different reasons that are worth explaining:

      First, several of the US carriers use network protocols (CDMA, TDMA) that aren't supported anywhere else, so if you buy a CDMA phone from Verizon it won't physically cannot work with T-Mobile's GSM network, but it will physically work with Alltel's CDMA network.

      However, betw
    • I mean that right now my Sprint phone wouldn't work if I go to AT&Ts network or Cingular's network or someone else. They all use different systems. It's mentioned at the end of the article that that just isn't the case in Hong Kong (and I believe in Japan and Europe and other places where they have number protability). The having to get a new phone part is still going to be a little bit of a wrench in this plan,

      I regularly (i.e. each year) switch to another provider expressly to get a new phone. Hands
    • Its called SOC(system operator code) locking. ANd sure the companies could get rid of it, but equipment pricing would go up. The 'free phone offers' everyone gets so excited about has its downsides. Higher end phones (v60 back in the day) generally arn't SOC locked but there are exceptions to every rule.
    • It's about time this is fixed. Imagine if the government allowed TV to develop this way.

      If you see the history of color television, you will find that the government attempted to mandate a standard that would have stranded lots of people into those who could see color programs, and those who could not. (The FCC chose the CBS color TV system, which was incompatible with the b+w we were using. They made the choice early enough and few people had TV's at that time anyway...but RCA sued, delaying the final de

  • That's great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ThisIsFred ( 705426 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:49PM (#7542905) Journal
    I'm looking forward to this, but how about equipment portability? Carriers refuse to move your ESN over from an older carrier. Since the device is "activated" with a particular carrier from the start, what's to stop it from being re-activated with a new carrier? This is costly to me, and forces me to discard an otherwise perfectly functioning mobile phone. I know there are charities that take this old equipment as a donation, but I'd have a lot more cash to donate directly if I didn't have to pay an extra $40 to $100 USD every time I switched carriers.
    • Just sell it on Ebay. That's what other people do when they go from a GSM provider to a CDMA one or vice versa. Also, certain phones can be switched over, depending on the carrier. Some Alltel phones can be used with Verizon Wireless.
    • Or another country with GSM the standard. Yea, it's still possible to run across SIM locked phones, but it's a whole lot easier to move between phones and providers. Just take out your little SIM card, pop it into the new phone -- done! Or get a new card from your new provider :)

    • what's to stop it from being re-activated with a new carrier

      The technical measure is that there is a lock code in the phone known as MSL (master subsidy lock). The business reason behind this is that the phones are subsidised. You pay an up front fee for the phone, but that is nowhere near the actual cost of the phone. The provider then recovers the rest of the cost over the lifetime of your contract.

      To get device portability, you would have to start paying the real costs of the device. These are in

  • My experience from Sweden (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:52PM (#7542923)
    We have had number portability for some time here in Sweden too. I've also changed cell phone providers a couple of times but at least to me it hasn't been the great competitive thing I hoped it to be. The phone companies just have differentiated more heavily their prices, much like insurance companies. So one is cheaper to connect a call with, another is cheaper to SMS with, yet another is cheaper for something else. To really compare prices you need to know exactly what services you use a month, exactly what time you use them AND to which numbers. This is a very hard job with an individual result, so in the end not many people compare prices at all.

  • Not the only problem (Score:5, Informative)

    by mauriceh ( 3721 ) <mhilarius@gmai l . com> on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:54PM (#7542934)
    At some point I hope they legislate to prevent the mobile carriers from crippling the phones they sell.
    When GSM first got going in N.America I bought a Motorola triband GSM phone ( 900,1800,1900 frequencies) from a Circuit City in Minnesota.
    It was sold with a VoiceStream activation package.
    Of course, when I took it home to Canada I found it was "SIMM locked" to only work with VoiceStream!
    After some longish and not amusing phone conversations with VoiceStream I managed to get it unlocked by reminding them that they do not have service here in Canada.
    Then I took it with me this summer to Malaysia and Singapore. That is when I found it was also crippled. The only frequency it would work on was the N.American 1900 band.
    When I got back I contacted VoiceStream and Motorola to ask what it would take to restore the phone to allow it so work with the frequencies it was advertised as being capable of.
    The response was that as VoiceStream ordered these with only 1900 capability the rest was "turned off" in the ROM version shipped to VoiceStream.
    "Can they "repair" it?"
    "No."
    I will pay ( even though I should not have to)
    "No"
    Can I return it?
    "No"

    Total rip-off..
    • Then I took it with me this summer to Malaysia and Singapore. That is when I found it was also crippled. The only frequency it would work on was the N.American 1900 band.
      When I got back I contacted VoiceStream and Motorola to ask what it would take to restore the phone to allow it so work with the frequencies it was advertised as being capable of.
      The response was that as VoiceStream ordered these with only 1900 capability the rest was "turned off" in the ROM version shipped to VoiceStream.

      Then file a comp
      • VoiceStream were not advertising that the phones were capable of this (I almost purchased the same phone while staying in the US for 3 months), but the specs of the phone said it could do it. Therefor VoiceStream are not falsly advertising the capabilities of their phone. Phones sold by the networks are rarely the exact same as the ones the manufacturers advertise, for many reasons, and so long as the networks do not advertise the features that they dont have, then they havent falsely advertised anything.

    • Re:Not the only problem (Score:5, Informative)

      by Nogami_Saeko ( 466595 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @04:23PM (#7543369)
      I had a fun one with Nokia:

      I had purchased an unlocked 8290 (brand new) over the net. Great little phone, I really liked it, but the problem was that some brain-surgeon at Nokia had decided that to "assist" operators, the phone would auto-lock itself to the first SIM that was inserted into it.

      Never mind that when you buy the phone it was unlocked and would accept any carrier's SIM, but afterwards it locked and you were stuck.

      Needless to say, I was mad. Phoned Nokia, who said "We can't generate an unlock code for the phone, call your provider". Called the provider "We don't carry that model, so we can't generate a code.". Argh. Of course it was especially annoying that obviously Nokia COULD help me, but they chose not to. Soured me on Nokia phones something fierce.

      In the end, buying a $10 cable and using a free utility off the 'net unlocked the phone in about 2 seconds. Still, it was a problem that never should've happened.

      That said, I'm on a Sony Ericsson P800 now and I love it - triband, totally unlocked, all of the goodies. I'm skipping the P900 for now (as it's just an incremental upgrade), but will probably pick up the next phone/PDA offering from SE (hopefully some-time in the summer/fall of next year).
  • For those Slashdotters who are skeptical about capitalism, competition is a good thing.

    Firms that can settle for making less profit, or who can innovate ways to legitimately earn top dollar for their products and services, will rise to the top, while those who can't compete will go out of business.

    • On paper, yes, capitalism works. In reality, however, capitalism is often times the practice of analyzing your competition to discover how you can offer the same or similar [sub-par] service or goods with only a slightly shinier silver lining. Clever marketing has been capitalism's greatest acheivement thus far, recently trumping free market (eg, wireless annual contracts: "Stay with us for 1+ year(s) on pain of an early termination fee and we'll give you fluff in return"). Most companies would never set
      • Looks like you've hit upon a business opportunity. Companies like consumer reports, good housekeeping, etc, all specialize in cutting through the "advertising fluff" to help people make the best decision.

        Before I buy new hardware, I try to read at least a couple of reviews.

        If you don't do that, then it must not be worth your time. That is your decision in a free society, but capitalism is what brought consumer reports, etc., into being: They enjoy making a profit by distributing valuable information.
        • My argument never stated that capitalism was better or worse than any other economical system, nor did I endorse (or even mention) communism. And though I appreciate your attempt to put words into my mouth and presume my position, you are pretty much as wrong as you could be as to where I stand. But hey, nice try.
  • What you are going to see is the mobile companies chasing after customers with lower prices. The WalMart of pricing - with the service to match. Since nobody talks about phone SERVICE, the only thing to compete on will be price.

    This means we will see lower prices, worse service, worse coverage for rural areas and the big markets will be saturated with low-cost plans.

    We might see some hardware consolidation - because only the really big players are going to be able to afford to stay in the game.
    • "Since nobody talks about phone SERVICE"

      I don't know where you're living, but that's been the top issue everywhere I've lived in the US. Price is always secondary to coverage (does it work indoors, does it work in the next state, etc).
      • I think it depends on the demographic. Some people just really want a cheap cell plan. Though, they might change their mind when they don't get service a mile down the street. Some providers are a bit upscale, Verizon Wireless and Nextel come to mind. They focus on features/service etc. rather than price.
      • Around here (Colorado), even GSM service works *everywhere*. Indoors, around town, driving 60 miles through nowhere to get to the airport (Denver International Airport is built in the middle of nowhere).

        Where the providers differentiate themselves is in rural coverage. Verizon wireless gave my friend *nearly 100%* coverage in Wyoming. We're talking CDMA coverage that's 100 miles away from the nearest town of more than 100. With Verizon, coverage is simply a non-issue: I would say that it's quite nearly 100
        • Here in Calif, it is quite different.
          Dring from San Francisco/San Jose to Los Angeles down I-5, Verizon(CDMA) sucks! (dropped calls, etc)
          Cingular (GSM) on the other hand goes strong all the way, through the central valley farm land.

          -Grump
        • What phone is your Verizon friend using? My older Nokia drops calls in and around Boulder (city and east county) all the time.
          I was recently on the roof of a building in Boulder where I had line-of-sight to most of the city. I got three out of four bars.
          I had assumed that Verizon simply sucked, but maybe it's my phone.

          --
      • I don't know where you're living, but that's been the top issue everywhere I've lived in the US. Price is always secondary to coverage (does it work indoors, does it work in the next state, etc).

        Indeed... where I live (rural NH) this is a serious issue, since the real-life coverage (as opposed to thier coverage maps) is a spotty patchwork quilt of carriers. For example, nobody has coverage at all in my town (we have a tower, but they've been dickering with the landower over leases for years), Sprint and

    • What do you mean nobody talks about phone SERVICE? Can you hear me now? Huh?

      And as the article points out, there are rural areas in Hong Kong (NT and Outlying Islands) that aren't served by all mobile carriers. But they do get served.

      Some of the low cost companies will cherry pick the big cities, but as long as there is a market, the free market says a player will exist to exploit it.
      • Verizon started there "can you here me" campaign to fend off the bad PR that happened when they got sued by a woman's family after she died. She was in a single-vehicle accident and her Verizon cell phone was in a no-coverage area.

        As far as I know, Verizon hasn't changed anything, just their advertising. All of their maps now say that a solid color indicating coverage is not an indication of actual coverage in any specific area.

        In Chicago people can't seem to agree who has the worst service. If Cingula
    • Regarding the Wal-Mart model: This only works on people who are only concerned about getting things for the lowest price possible. They will inevitably have poor quality and service. But there are people who buy their clothes at Neiman Marcus and pay more than they would at Wal-Mart, and these are the same people willing to pay more for high quality cell phone service. Good service will certainly be available, but as always, you will get what you pay for.
    • The parent post doesn't know what he's talking about. I've lived in Hong Kong since 1993 and number portability has seen an improvement in service, quality and lower prices. I've changed from one2free to Smartone to Orange to get better pricing and services. My girlfriend is on Orange too and we get 1000 free minutes each month for calling to each other.

      On another note - something else the US should emulate...

      In HK every time you use a mobile you pay for your minutes, making AND receiving a call. It is gr
      • The parent post doesn't know what he's talking about. I've lived in The US since 1976, and it doesn't cost any more here to call a cell phone than a land-line phone. For instance, if someone wants to call me at home or on my cell, it is the same price (usually free if you are local, long-distance if you are not local).

        There is no penalty for calling a cell. The cellphone owner pays for both sending and receiving calls.
  • but... This does little while we're locked into yearly and even double yearly contracts. I just went to look for a new phone last week - all we're rip off's. At least $150 and up. And (this was AT&T) they all required two year contracts.

    So, for the average consumer, number portability will do you no good while locked into a contract. Step in the right direction tho..
    • ...the increased competetion will likely force companies to offer short-term contracts with less limitations.

    • Re:Step in the right direction (Score:4, Insightful)

      by josecanuc ( 91 ) * on Sunday November 23, 2003 @04:17PM (#7543338) Homepage Journal
      The American cellular telephone market has evolved differently than the rest of the world. In Europe and Japan, you (gerneally, there are exceptions) go buy a nice phone or a cheap phone; whatever has what you need. You can expect to pay from $50 to over $500 for a phone, depending on the features you want.

      Compare it to buyinga PDA or a laptop computer.

      Then, you went and picked a phone plan you want and they gave you the account information in a SIM card, which you put in whatever phone you got and you're off to the races.

      But in the US, phone prices were deemed too high to make good inroads, so providers subsidised the cost of the phones. So you buy your service and it comes with a "free" phone, or a "$30" phone.

      When someone's phone breaks, they take it in and find that to get a new phone, they will have to pay over $100 for essentially the same model phone. Outrage ensues! ;-)

      Of course, the subsidising didn't work out exactly well because people got unhappy with some aspect of the service and left for another company. That's where the 1- and 2-year contracts started coming in, so the providers could recoup the costs of subsidising the phone.

      In the mean-time, US cellular phone customers have come to believe that cell phones truely cost around $30-$50 and balk at paying what amounts to actual retail price for one. It doesn't help that many of these cell phones look and feel like $30 pieces of electronics rather than the $180+ pieces of highly engineered hardware that they really are.
      • You can expect to pay from $50 to over $500 for a phone, depending on the features you want.

        This was not the experience of a friend of mine, who came back from teaching English in Japan for a year.

        "Wait, you mean I have to PAY for this big, crappy phone?"

        That was his exact quote. The phone he had from Japan (and for some reason couldn't get to work in Canada, I didn't pay much attention there) was half the size, ran longer on a charge, and had way more features than anything he could get here.
      • But in the US, phone prices were deemed too high to make good inroads, so providers subsidised the cost of the phones. So you buy your service and it comes with a "free" phone, or a "$30" phone.

        Subsidies are very well known here in Denmark. When the phone companies are in a price war, you can quite often get a brand new GSM phone for DKK 1, that is around USD 0.16. The catch is of course that with it you have to buy a phone plan. But since the maximum duration of any phone plan in Denmark is six months (

  • Germany's Lessons on Number Portability (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Here in Germany we have number portability (only mobile phones) since exactly one year and
    nobody cares.
    Only a small percentage of the swappers
    take their number with them.
    This is partly blamed to the high costs :
    around 25 Euros.

  • Dan's hot...check his stuf (Score:3, Informative)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @03:09PM (#7543031)
    Column... [bayarea.com]

    eJournal [siliconvalley.com]

  • Danish experiences (Score:5, Informative)

    by infolib ( 618234 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @03:44PM (#7543207)
    In Denmark we've had number portability for several years. My current cell number has been through 3 different providers. IMO it's been a huge benefit to competition. For instance, I recently switched provider during a price battle that cut my phone bill in half. (My old one followed through most of the way, but they'd never have done it without number portability) They are obliged to extend number portability to work between cell and fixed line phones this april which I'm not so sure is a good idea - I like to know where I' calling because of pricing.

    Best current rates in Denmark are about 10c/min, SMS's are 3-4c apiece with no subscription. Some expect the price to fall even lower within the next year. The government agency on IT and Communication runs a helpful price guide [teleprisguide.dk] to internet and phone providers. Of course all the providers interoperate, so you can just switch sim cards to switch provider and you can call and SMS anyone.

    Several providers offer subsidized phones that can be very cheap, but they're not allowed to simlock it to their network for longer than 6 months. It's not illegal to have the simlock prematurely unlocked and it is offered publicly [simlock.dk] for 15-20 Euro. (You might get better rates elsewhere). Your contract will however be enforceable, so you'll pay subscription fees. I used this possibility recently to use my phone with a german provider during my stay there. (It's illegal in Germany though - I sent my phone from Germany to Denmark to have it unlocked - go call the police)

  • Innovation? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by K8Fan ( 37875 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @04:31PM (#7543401) Journal

    These people have such an bizzare facility with language that it would make Orwell's Big Brother blush. "Innovation" is NewSpeak for thwarting innovation, and "competition" means eliminating all competitors.

    "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less" - Humpty Dumpty - Through the Looking Glass

  • I currently have a cell phone with a major provider whose name sounds a lot like "Squint." I've also moved a couple times in the last year and a half. The first time I moved, I changed my phone number... then moved again 3 months later. The problem is that the company requires you to start a new contract every time you change numbers, and I wanted to switch providers when my contract ran out. My choice was either change phone # and start a new contract, or keep my phone number with an out-of-state area c

  • Here in Germany, we traditionally have different "area codes" assigned to the different providers. That is, by looking at the area code, you know which provider the mobile is on. This was a good thing, since the cost of calling a mobile depends on the provider (e.g. I refuse to call an O2 mobile before 8 p.m., it's too expensive). With the advent of number portability, this association could get lost. It hasn't yet, since nobody uses it, but the possibility is there. How will I know how expensive my call is
    • The US has a different pricing model, so that problem won't come up. In the US outgoing calls are billed as international/long distance/local, depending on the number. The extra cost of calling a cell phone has been transfered to the person called. This means that if someone calls you long distance on your cell phone you can get quite a charge for a call you did not orginate...

      Recently a couple of companies (Nextel for one) have offered plans with free incoming calls. But since the precedent has been e
    • Here in Finland we've had cellphone number portability since this July, and people face the same problem. As a solution there is a toll-free number where you can check the provider of a particular number. However, many providers now have schemes where the price of phonecalls is independent of the target provider (as long as it's a cellphone).

      I for one welcome our new number portability overlords ;-). I'm currently in the process of changing my provider, but I wouldn't do this if I had to change the number

  • As one of the few regulated monopolies allowed in our economic system, it is ludicrous to expect telecoms to do anything other than seek monopolies look at what is going on in telecom land:

    * AT&T is trying to enforce it's monopoly rights over certain kinds of electronic transactions.
    * The cell industry just was drug kicking and screeming to number portability.
    * Annual service terms are being snuck into many isp and t1 contracts

    I would say that there is no news that a utility opposes anything that affe
  • Apparently there will come a time in the US where you can switch your landline phone number to a cellular phone and vice versa.

    They're not there yet. I was able to retain my landline phone number when switching providers (BellSouth to Birch). However just moving down the road required a totally new phone number - with the same phone company. Makes no sense to me, because the cell phone companies and now the VoIP phone companies can give you a number in any area when you set up or move service. Especi
  • "When portability went into effect in 1999, about 45 percent of the local population had mobile phones. Today it's north of 99 percent, says Kwan, and portability is one reason."

    Wow, that means the telecoms stand ready in the hospital when a new citizen is born. Fierce competition indeed!

  • Message from Hong Kong (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 23, 2003 @08:15PM (#7544447)
    Remarkable I have not seen any comments from Hong Kong. I happen to live there for 1 1/2 years now, and of course I have my mobile phone.
    So far I have once switched providers - an easy and painless issue. It cost me like $20 admin cost (1USD=7.8HKD, so that is abt USD2.5), and three days later it was ported over.
    On calling cost: that is indeed truly low. I pay $89 (abt USD12) a month for 500 mins airtime (calling and being called), including call forwarding (press when being called on the mobile, and answer on the land line: no airtime paybable!), voicemail, SMS services, etc.
    Calling landline to landline is free. Calling landline to mobile is free (mobile pays airtime only).
    Calling cost are so low, many providers do not send you a paper invoice (costs $10 (just over USD1) service cost), only SMS and e-mail invoice.

    Don't forget Hong Kongs 7mln people live on an area only 30x50 km in size, of which a large part is water. The high buildings are the largest problem for the networks: reflections. Buidling a country wide network is therefor easy and cheap. Networks are good and reliable, also high in the mountain (up to 990m high it goes here!) you have network.

    Oh and for price comparison: though life is expensive, and Hong Kong has a name of being an expensive place to live, that is only housing. Everything else is cheap here.

    Wouter.
  • We have had number portability in Australia for a number of years now, so have many other countries - It's like so many other outdated ideas that are still carried on in the US.
    My litre of water (weighing 1kg) will boil at 100C, and then freeze when it gets down to 0C. It's just so much easier.... :P
  • We've already gone through porting twice. Once for 800 numbers. And once for landline numbers.

    To wireline and wireless companies November 24th is a day that will live in infamy. It only will be available for about the top 100 markets. Everyone else has to wait until May 2004. Consumers will be able to take their cellular numbers from one carrier to another. Say like from SprintPCS to Verizon, or from their landline to a cellular carrier like SBC to Cingular (they are really the same company), or from a
  • The new number portability provision will help a lot, but it only eliminates one form of lock-in, one based on the social norms where users become reliant on their current phone number.

    Another form of lock-in, one based on economic norms, is the penalty to be payed when switching away from a wireless provider before your service term is up,which we all are bound to by contract.

    Most people I know hate switching not because they have to switch numbers, but because they have to pay a stepp $200+ fine for end

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