Galileo System To Include Jamming Capability

CharonX writes "The Galileo project, an european alternative to the US based (and controlled) GPS system, recieved a severe setback today. Under US pressure the EU has agreed to use transmission frequencies that could be easily disturbed or completely jammed by the US military. Since one of Galileo's main advantages had been being independent of goverment or military control, this is a severe setback. Read more here on Heise.de (German - ya might want to use the fish)" Some of the background on this had NATO being unhappy with some of the provisions of it as well - at the least military structure.

Rough Translation by me :)

[real-q]

Galileo under US-Control

The argument, the european satellite navigation system Gallileo will make the europeans independent from the USA, seems to tumble. Tagesschau [one of the most serious Newsmagazines in Germany] reports, US military forces may disturb or completely jam the Galileo signal without furhter notice, similar to what they are doing already with the GPS-Signals in critical times.

But that is not enough for the americans. They demand to reduce the quality ofthe unencrypted Galileo signal, which the System sends in normal operation. If the USA will succeed with its demands, one of the main arguments for the european Navigationsystem - it's much higher precision compared to GPS - would fall. The final decision talks are set for january in Washington D.C.

About four billion Euro will the Galilep project cost and it will start in the year 2008. About 30 satellites are required for the system. China and India also want to take part in financing the project with togehter 500 million euro.

The Register has article in English...

[JohnGrahamCumming]

Here [theregister.co.uk]

John.

Re:Unbelievable...

[gl4ss]

i wonder though.. the financing of this has to shake somewhat now though, since the whole point of making the system kind of falls now, i don't see any point why china for example would like to contribute at all now.

Agreed to it? The Reg seems to say different.

[arevos]

The Register [theregister.co.uk] just says that: "Talks are underway between the US and the European Union". Nothing yet seems to be agreed or finalised.

Do we know if anything definite has been decided yet? I can't see the EU caving in that easily (though I may be wrong).

manual translation of Heise article

[Apogee]

Galileo under US control

The previous argument that the European satellite navigation system Galileo would make Europeans independent from the US apparently starts to falter. As reported by the Tagesschau [tagesschau.de] (German TV news, trans. note), US armed forces can jam or artificially deteriorate the Galileo signal without consulting the Europeans, just as it is being done nowadays with GPS signals in times of crises.

But that is not sufficient for the Americans. They further demand that the unencrypted Galileo signal, which the system broadcasts during normal operation, should be artificially degraded or dampened, as well. Should the US come through with this demand, one of the major arguments for the European navigation system would fall, namely its higher precision compared to GPS. The pivotal round of negotiations for this is planned to take place in the American capital, Washington DC, in January.

The Galileo project is estimated to cost four billion Euro, and is supposed to become operational in 2008. Approximately 30 satellites are needed for the system. Recently, China and India have agreed to participate in the financing of the project with 500 million Euro combined. (uma/c't)

Re:a stupid question...

[niceandsunny]

Yes, but they would be jamming their own system as well because Galileo was going to use the same frequencies as GPS. As the article points out, however, the EU was "persuaded" to use different frequencies to make it possible for the U.S. to disable Galileo.

Sharing frequencies wouldn't have caused GPS and Galileo to interfere because Galileo was supposed to use a clever way of superimposing signals.

Re:Big shame

[Performer Guy]

Sigh, nobody has walked over anyone. Geeze keep your hair on. You don't even know the facts beyone some rant on /. typical, get all hot & bothered over propaganda.

Re:Well obviously the US

[arcanumas]

Lower dollar will increase US exports you retard

Currently the US imports much more than it exports. Having the dollar devaluate in relation to the Euro it means you will have to pay more to get the same amount of imports.
So it will have a positive effect of making American products more competitive as far as price is concerned and therefore increase exports in the long run.

In other words you make the Dollar devaluation sound like it is most certainly a good thing. It depends on the situation, and the current US situation tells us that for now it is a BAD thing.

Re:Agreed to it? The Reg seems to say different.

[neglige]

Galileo offers two services: one free, unencrypted service and one encrypted service that you have to pay for (higher precision, higher QoS). As far as I understand it, the encrypted signal can be jammed - this is what the Heise article is about. The talks (in January in Washington) are about jamming the unencrypted signal, according to Heise.

Re:NOT obviously the US

[lovebyte]

... rampant inflation ...
Greece's inflation from August 2002 - August 2003 was: 3.3%. The average in the EU was 2.2%.
Data from : infobase [ibeurope.com].
This is not rampant.

Re:NOT obviously the US

[lovebyte]

1. You are quoting stats from 2001 and I from 2003!

2. What is the inflation rate of, say, Scotland relative to the UK, or Alhabama relative to the USA. Same problem than in the euro zone. Different taxes exist in different US states or UK nations.

Related news item

[andy1307]

India announces participation in Europe's Galileo satellite project [eubusiness.com]

Indian officials said New Delhi would soon pick up a 350-million-dollar (300-million-euro) stake in the 3.2 billion euro European satellite project, meant to rival the Global Positioning System run by the US Defence Department.

Indonesia

[Chep]

East Timor was invaded (with mass murders and all the tralala until the Aussies went to clean up the mess recently) with Kissinger's blessing, with US-build weapons (theoretically sold for defence purposes only, but I don't see the point of H.K.'s visit a few days before the invasion started).

EU can jam GPS too.

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember from New Scientist that the US wanted Galileo on a different frequency so they could jam it without jamming GPS. Galileo was going to operate on a similar range of frequencies to GPS, so jamming one would jam both.

If they change Galileo's frequencies, Galileo and GPS can each be jammed independently so GPS can be used in a war zone and Galileo can't.

There's nothing to stop anyone jamming either system without affecting the other one. This is not a global effect, it's local only.

How to make enemies and lose allies.

[theolein]

I just read the heise.de forums and the overall tone of the posters is disbelief and viscious anger. On the one hand they're angry that their politicians could bend over so easily and on the other they're hopping mad that the Americans would apply so much political pressure to do this.

I'll say this for you anks. There is literally no other country on earth that makes enemies and loses allies as well as your country is presently doing.

Re:Indonesia

[Chep]

Well, guess why Kissinger doesn't want to even risk going to Canada, let alone Europe.

Several countries would love to try him (he probably has good defence devices, and he absolutely, just as you, me, and your typical Guantanamo guest, is entitled to a competent defence, but he certainly has some explanation to do over his carreer. And he gets angry real real fast (I witnessed that during a live interview) when someone just begins to hint at Cambodia or Indonesia).

If you don't think that the single example of Indonesia (by the way, the Australians aren't nice just out of philantropy), how about South America? September 11th <b>1973</b> and the like? Operation Condor? etc. ad nauseam.

Yes, France sells weapons to the bad guys occasionally (heh, ask the brits anytime). So does everybody. And the USA's not clean either. Every dirty trick in the book, every first-world nation practiced, or practices, or both, and needs very careful attention from its citizenship (where it is still "free and/or brave") to not practice again.

If you think the USA are the good guys unequivocally, I have bad news for you: a lot of people disagree, and sometimes they have decent grounds for that (and afterwards, dissent is a normal and healthy thing where Freedom exists, isn't it?).

Re:Rough Translation by me :)

[R2.0]

Funny, but the Reg. article (link in another post)gives a distinctly different impression on the "jamming" issue, to wit:

The US and EU are currently coordinating frequencies so that the EU system doesn't interfere with the US system - and vice-versa. As a side effect, the EU system will be susceptible to jamming ONLY in that, being on a different freq., the US could jam Gallileo and not GPS.

Well, guess what - that implies that the EU could jam GPS and not Gallileo! Oh yeah, and even if Gallileo is on the same freq. as GPS, it could STILL be jammed - it would just take out both systems. AND accuracy would still suck due to interference.

As for the "demand" that the US military be able to degrade Gallileo's accuracy, given the breathless nature of the balance of the article, it seems the author may have gotten a little carried away.

Besides which, why can't the EU "just say no"?