Retired Microsoft Operating Systems Still Popular 645
Decaffeinated Jedi writes "Despite Microsoft's recent retirement of Windows 98, News.com reports that many users continue to cling to the company's older operating systems. The study cited in the article suggests that 80 percent of companies still have machines operating on Windows 95 or 98. While Windows 2000 was the most common OS in the study, just 6.6 percent of the desktop machines included in the survey were running Windows XP." The results aren't too surprising. I get a lot of user mail from Netscape 4 users, and it only makes sense that they're running it somewhere.
Windows 98 (Score:5, Informative)
NT popular in the enterprise (Score:3, Informative)
CB
Re:Of course (Score:2, Informative)
I'd hope that larger companies would realize it's cheaper to upgrade than suffer the wrath of unsupported, unpatched windows boxen!
Re:Companies are better off than schools. (Score:3, Informative)
The Apple II C's may be perfectly fine for a high school physics lab. The MECC (Minnesota Educational Computer Consortium) produced hundreds of programs for the Apple II C that probably still have use.
A poor mechanic blames his tools.
Re:Of course (Score:2, Informative)
Mostly it's impossible arguing with people who think like that. They just want the new version, because it's available. No need to say that those people hardly believe you if you can do something better and cheaper for them (example : dynamic webdesign : "YOU can do future updates, without having to pay anyone for it". They don't believe you when you say anything like that, without prooving it 20 times).
Why upgrade? (Score:2, Informative)
I personally run an old copy of Win98 under Win4Lin for Linux. I use it for a program or two which I need to use for work but which does not have a compatable Linux counterpart.
Yup, thats my own experience also. (Score:2, Informative)
Me myself, I still use netscape messenger for email and have no plans on changing client. (Its super easy to backup your email in that program)
Re:Windows 3.1 (Score:5, Informative)
It was abandoned by MS at 1.2 so that 3COM's 3+Open and IBM's PC Server OS's that built on top of it would have to react and lose market share.
MS was in an agreement with IBM and 3COM that allowed them to take advantage of the developments of the other two while leaving them in the cold. IBM tried to pick up development of OS/2 (including WARP), but that is a different story.
NT, Win2K, and XP all use the "net xxx" commands that were the heart of 3COM's OS even before the "alliance" with Microsoft. I think this is why Bob Metcalfe seems to hate Gates with such a passion.
"Come into my den said the spider to the fly."
Re:NT popular in the enterprise (Score:2, Informative)
Not surprising. XP isn't for business (Score:1, Informative)
The business desktop is Windows 2000 Professional. There should be a new version of Windows 2003(5?) for desktops soon.
Our Experiences (Score:2, Informative)
As with most office environments that I have worked in (distribution and insurance companies mostly), the end user really only uses their PC as a wordprocessor, email station, and remote terminal.
In our office, the wordprocessing is usually done by management, so an email station and remote terminal to our database system is all that is needed.
Re:Companies are better off than schools. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Windows 3.1 (Score:2, Informative)
The "net xxx" commands all come from Lan Manager originally, NOT from 3Com.
Re:EBay market for W2K will explode (Score:2, Informative)
At some universities that have a special agreement with Microsoft, like The University of Cincinnati [uc.edu], Faculty can get a legal liscenced copy of Windows XP Pro that never asks for activation, doesn't require registration, and can be installed an infinite number of times, presumably on an infinite number of computers. And they can purchase it from the University Bookstore for around US$6.95
I still see a lot of old windows products (Score:2, Informative)
windows XP is 43%
windows 98 is 22%
windows 2k is 18%
windows ME is 6%
windows NT is 2%
windows 95 is 1%
Macintosh is 3%
And if you want to talk old, when I was in school one lab had an expensive scientific instrument ($100,000) that was controlled by a windows 3.1 computer. The software would not run on anything else. Upgrading would mean buying a new instrument. They left it as is.
Re:NT popular in the enterprise (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The thing I always wondered is (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Windows 98 (Score:2, Informative)
If a product experiences a loss of support from a commercial distributor, which continues to have issues, for no better reason than to support their bottom line either to upgrade (for a fee to the company which produced the problem in the first place) or as a new install (as is the case for many of my clients who could have otherwise kept their previous systems and licences without upgrading) then what we have is a situation where a user is required to pay to have bugs fixed (or not, since what we have is a new system with its own potential issues).
This results in the aforementioned "Microsoft Tax".
I admit that I use the term less than precisely, however, in the context of my requirements, there is strong business impetus to migrate on a regular basis, based on the vendors requirements, not mine or my clients'.
Hence, as a "tax" is a levy exacted to continue operations without any necessary addition to service provision, I stand by my original terminology.
If you disagree with my usage, I can only offer my support for your right to express your viewpoint. I disagree and welcome your responses.
WPA, eye candy and spyware--not worth it. (Score:5, Informative)
Had the organization stayed with Win2K, this never would have come up.
Realistically, Windows 98 is probably the last version of Windows that can be reasonably kept from calling home, and has a higher probability of not having some kind of government back door. You think MS got a slap on the wrist in the antitrust action for free?
Re:you can run netscape in winxp? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Windows 98 (Score:5, Informative)
And unlike M$, Apple has very strong support for those old programs in their new OS (via Classic mode in "OS X").
Plus, if you buy a new Mac, odds are it will run any older "win95/98 only" educational software just fine in Virtual PC (note-Virtual PC does not currently work with G5s).
I also find Virtual PC really useful for testing software I've written on older OSs. I also find I HAVE TO build some software (for win95 especially) in Virtual PC running the target OS or there end up being all kinds of
Re:Another reason to run Windows 95 (Score:5, Informative)
if you would ahve installed vector linux it would have downright screamed and MozillaFirebird would work great if you had 128 meg of ram.
I have 5 machines I have given to friends that are P166MMX and it is very VERY useable with Vector linux.
Wordprocessor is ABI word.. which is 9000% faster than open office.
Spreadsheet is Gnumeric, and it also is a billion times faster than Open office.
you have a choice of about 4 built in tight window managers and you can install gnome or KDE is you desire.
Give it a try.... Vector Linux. it is pretty impressive that they can take the fastest distro- slackware and make it faster and add a "apt" style of installer but is GUI based.
Re:Win95/ office 95 still in use (Score:3, Informative)
Especially the system administration tool, YaST2, will crawl on 64MB of RAM.
winders versions on older boxen (Score:3, Informative)
My son uses win2k and I have a machine with NT 4.0 on it. I presently have a machine that runs 95 too - but it is an old P90 and it is turned on only once in a blue moon.
What I've found is that my son has had a great deal if difficulties with win2K. He has re-installed more than 5 times. The OS loses its network printers regularly. He whines about it of course and threatens to get a copy of XP.
I don't think his machine will run XP very well so if he does that he may as well throw out the present machine. Talk about crap eh?
Meanhile I've pretty much abandoned my NT machine and am now using the Debian Linux machine virtually 99% of the time. I may even install VMware and if I do this - I may be able to go back to only one machine. It will save me a bit of electricity.
So an effect that I presonally predicted several years ago is happening - that effect is that old copies of microsoft software are competing directly with newer versions. Given this - I am surprised to see that Microsoft revenues are holding up... or are they?
If the revenues don't materialize, Microsoft shares could erode in value at an unprecedented rate. This would be due to the fact that the number of shares Microsoft has issued is mind boggling.
I personally do not see Microsoft as a growth company at all. While I will not short them, there is no way I'd invest in them either.
Actually it's more straightforward than that. (Score:5, Informative)
Windows is supposed to run slower with each new version, so you will have to buy current hardware to run it, at new-technology prices, so that the cost of the Windows OS, as a proportion of the total price of the delivered computer, will stay below a level they figured is likely to trigger a consumer revolt.
There's nothing accidental about it.
Re:Why "up"grade? (Score:1, Informative)
Who knows what Red Hat is doing for the moment, but $60 is exactly what basic membership in the MandrakeClub costs per year. It's not required, though. You can use it for free and comes with openoffice.org
If you have to run office 97, codeweavers.com Crossover Office will do it. Strangely it's also $60. You seem to have picked a popular price point.
Re:The lesson to be learned here (Score:3, Informative)
The clickwrap 'contract', other than the flaw of it being a contract of adhesion ('take it or leave it') it also offers nothing to a user.
For a contract to be valid, it must offer consideration --- both parties must obtain something that I would not otherwise have. The clickwrap 'contract' doesn't. It *was* claimed that it offers me the ability to copy the software from disk media into memory, but that was explicitly ruled not copyright infringement. Therefore, the 'contract' offers me nothing I don't already posess under copyright law.
Now, the contract between microsoft and the OEM or company might have such consideration 'cheaper prices in return for accepting this restrictive contract'. However, I or any other purchaser of such a box am under no such restriction.
Also, many could argue that such OEM contracts constitute tying. Finally, there are cases where one must agree to a contract unseen, which to does not form a binding contract.
Remember, its always easy to claim anything. I now demand that all readers and especially you empty your browser cache, you pirates!
The heck with Windows... (Score:3, Informative)
During my tenure at Boeing, I saw a number of CNC (Computer Numerical Control) machine-control applications in the factory that were all DOS-based. In the electronics labs, many design or data-acquisition tools are DOS-based. And here, in my home lab, I've got a blort-load of radio service software that requires a pure DOS platform or it simply won't run.
"Retired" OS's are popular for a variety of reasons, just as older test equipment is often favored over much newer stuff. One of those reasons is that the underlying principles of what you're trying to do never change: Only the degree of complexity needed to get it done does.
Re:Original CD prices going up! (Score:4, Informative)
I took advantage of the Windows XP Pro downgrade rights [microsoft.com] to run Windows 2000:
I still think Windows 98 SE is preferable for games, but I don't miss it too much.I still like DOS for games (Score:2, Informative)
Since a lot of protected-mode games will never be re-ported to Win32 or Linux, I still keep my old DOS disks handy.
I actually built a special PIII 733Mhz/133FSB dosbox with intentionally obsolete (for compatability) sound & video just so I could have an MS-DOS 7.22 platform to run those cool old 4GW games on.
Funny things can happen in autoplay mode, though...the frame rate is so fast the game looks like a bunch of munchkins on crack.
Re:Another reason to run Windows 95 (Score:3, Informative)
FYI:
Linux tends to want memory over processor speed.
Memory for laptops isn't too expensive on ebay. (I upped my old p166 laptop from 32M (16 onboard + 16M) to 80M (16 + 64M) for about 30 bucks.
Well worth it. Galeon is pretty quick on OpenBSD now. I remember it being slower under Debian Woody, which is odd, since I was running a pretty stripped down install of it.
Re:Windows 98 (Score:3, Informative)
It runs surprisingly well on a 450-MHz K6-III with 256 MB of RAM (video is an equally-old ATI Xpert 98 AGP). It takes much less time to boot up than Win2K, too. If you turn off most of the eye candy (I leave only font anti-aliasing and "show windows while dragging" enabled, even on fast hardware) and revert to the pre-XP look and feel, it works fairly well on even modest hardware. (I don't know that I'd try running it on less than 256 MB, but the same applied to Win2K as well.)
The Numbers Aren't In Conflict (Score:2, Informative)
Re:here: google survey differs from the 'news' sur (Score:3, Informative)