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The Almighty Buck Technology

Tech Titans Prepare to Battle Over Next DVD Format 453

securitas writes "The New York Times Technology has an excellent feature by Ken Belson about the coming battle over the next-generation DVD format that consumer electronics and technology giants are already preparing for. The article covers the (high-definition) HD DVD group, led by Toshiba and NEC, and the Blu-ray Group, led by Sony and Matsushita (Panasonic/JVC). Mass production is expected to begin in 2005, but both sides are expected to show prototypes and aggresively pursue partners at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas next week. Add to the mix a nine-company Chinese faction that says it will develop its own DVD format because - fearing their technology could be used by Chinese rivals - the Japanese manufacturers haven't shared much information, even within the DVD Forum. Finally, Disney, Microsoft, IBM and Intel have yet to weigh in. The worst thing that could happen would be another Betamax/VHS-type war. In that case, 'Everyone is a loser, particularly Hollywood studios, the retailer community and, most importantly, the consumer,' says Warren N. Lieberfarb, developer of the original DVD format."
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Tech Titans Prepare to Battle Over Next DVD Format

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  • Whatever happens... (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, 2003 @09:49AM (#7827115)
    ... it will be in the best finacial interests of the companies, and the worst interests of the viewers. So either way, does it really make a difference whether it is this format or that?
  • by Trigun ( 685027 ) <`xc.hta.eripmelive' `ta' `live'> on Monday December 29, 2003 @09:50AM (#7827119)
    It costs next to nothing to stamp out a DVD. If they remove region encoding from these formats, there's actually less different dvd's to press.
  • How About (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PakProtector ( 115173 ) <cevkiv@NosPAm.gmail.com> on Monday December 29, 2003 @09:57AM (#7827153) Journal
    Instead of choosing a format for the discs, we all agree on a common method of storing the data instead of the medium so I can plug my XYZ Toilet Paper Tube Reader into my computer and read off the 10 gigs of data it holds with the same codec as I use for that latest game release on the 'Finger in the Nose' reader?
  • by drix ( 4602 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @10:03AM (#7827174) Homepage
    Well then I wish you well on your ~ 6 year sojourn into entertainmentless wilderness, because as I recall it only took about 4 years before a lot of movies started only coming out on DVD and not on VHS. This despite VHS having 15 years of momentum behind it.
  • Re:Too late. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by lovswr ( 633015 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @10:05AM (#7827185)
    You know, it is odd that Sony (Beta) & JVC (VHS) are on the same side this time.
  • *sigh* (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @10:07AM (#7827191) Journal
    Isn't this why organizations with a commercial interest shouldn't be involved in deciding upon standards? Because they will obviously want to get what they want, and there's usually more than one will involved. It isn't a constructive battle for a format either, and the best format isn't necessarily victorious.

    I wonder what the purpose of the DVD Forum was again?

    1. To establish a single format for each DVD application product, including revisions, improvements and enhancements for the benefit of consumers and users

    2. To promote broad acceptance of DVD products on a worldwide basis, including the entertainment, consumer electronics and IT industries as well as the general public.


    Ooh, I see... :-P
  • by PhotoBoy ( 684898 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @10:09AM (#7827203)
    I think we're already in a Betamax/VHS type war with DVD-R and DVD+R, adding another playback format with HD-DVD is just asking for trouble, especially now that DVD has pretty much supplanted VHS.

    Personally I think it's foolish of these companies to try to create their own proprietory formats to make more money as it's usually always the case that the cheapest most open format wins. e.g. VHS, x86 etc. And you have consumers upset that their purchase has become obsolete who won't necessarily have the cash to buy the "victorious" format.

    And what about people who have 50+ DVDs in their collection? Are they supposed to replace all their Lord of the Rings DVDs with HD-DVDs? I remember people bitching about replacing all their VHS with DVDs, I don't think having to do it again so soon will help the introduction of a new format. :)
  • by swb ( 14022 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @10:09AM (#7827204)
    If the new DVD formats being recommended aren't as 'open', and do not present a sizeable improvement over the current resolution of existing DVDs, I don't think that one conglomerate will be able to 'force' the market place into accepting a new tech.

    The market is just beginning to buy into HDTV in any significant quantity. The NY Times had an article on 12/24 about the intense demand for DLP and LCD RP televisions this season; stores simply cannot keep these in stock. And these sets all do 720p quite nicely.

    The trouble is, there's very little HD broadcast content. I can get a whopping 6 channels of HD with digital cable here, and about 1/3 of it would be even halfway interesting to me (ie, no sports).

    If a new DVD format is available that is true (ie, telecined at 720p or better) HD resolution, it may be enough of a cause-effect loop to suck people in -- HD owners who want more HD content will buy the format, and it will also drive people to buy more HD TVs.

    I'm most concerned that the new formats aren't high enough capacity. I think we're on the verge of seeing 1080p or even higher displays. A format not capable of displaying video at these resolutions will be seen as DOA and won't be adopted. If display resolutions hold tight at 720p for fixed-pixel displays in the sub-$10k market, then it will be a "good enough" format for a while.

    I just wish manufacturers would agree on an HD resolution (in the way that 480i was the standard for a long time) so that we can reach an era where we don't rely on scalers as much. I'd love to see content telecined for and displayed at the same resolution.
  • by malsdavis ( 542216 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @10:09AM (#7827207)
    I reckon whatever method ends up being used should have a) smaller discs and b) protective casing.

    Although there good in the way they hold lots and lots of quite quick to access information, I think CD's and DVD's are some of the crappiest pieces of technology about. There clunky, just to big to hold easily in your hand (escpecially if your female) and get scratched so, so easy its pathetic. What percentage of your games/music CD's from say 6 years ago isn't scratched?

    The best format for holding such data I have seen was on that Sylvester Stallone movie "Demolition Man", at some point on that you see Sandra Bullock use something which is like 4 minidisc's stacked on top of each other.
  • You make it sound like HDTV isn't in the process of being adopted when in truth the prices have come down at a fairly rapid pace over the last year to the point that you can buy a direct-view CRT HDTV for $500. In addition, virtually every rear-projection big-screen TV is now an HDTV (the ones that aren't are barely worth considering with the narrow price difference), which benefit the most from a higher resolution signal - try watching an NTSC signal blown up to 50+ inches without some decent line-multiplication; personally, I can only do so for about a minute before I feel a trickle of blood from the corners of my eyes (at least at the viewing distances in a typical living/family room).

    Considering that the earliest this tech will hit the mass market is 2005 (expect at least another year before serious adoption occurs), high[er]-resolution DVDs will be hitting shelves just as a lot of people will start wanting them for their new screens. Sounds like good timing to me.

  • by saden1 ( 581102 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @10:21AM (#7827268)
    Everyone is a loser ass the article said, especially the studios. Not only do they have to pay royalties to both factions but they bare the cost of supporting two format (3 if you add the chines). I mean, they'll be looking at having three difference partners producing different types of media disks instead of one.

    In reality the big problem is the fact that all these factions want to make money on royalties so they have not incentive to work together. All these companies see is their bottom line and they definitely want their format adopted. I really would love to see royalty free DVDs and it seems the Chinese want the same thing to. If I was a studio executive or a some manufacturer I'd support the Chinese.
  • by useosx ( 693652 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @11:03AM (#7827490)
    It costs next to nothing to stamp out a DVD.

    I am so torn about this. On the one hand, I love my cheap CD-Rs and DVD-Rs. But I hate how fragile [roxio.com] they are and how there's no consensus on how to properly label [slashdot.org] them. Not to mention the hours I spend on Afterdawn [afterdawn.com] trying to figure out what the best *-R discs are...muttering about polycarbonate the whole time.

    So one solution would be to put the discs in a caddy, which would drive up the price. But then I wouldn't have to worry about...anything short of stepping on them. Is Magneto Optical [slashdot.org] the answer?

    So anyway, my point is when I see the headline "Tech Titans Prepare to Battle Over Next DVD Format"--all I can do is cringe because I can pretty much bet on caddy-less media. Why? My tin foil hat says: because the RIAA/MPAA makes more money every time your favorite disc gets scratched and you have to buy a new one.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @11:16AM (#7827548)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:I Hope (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, 2003 @11:33AM (#7827650)
    You are all fools. The studios only care about one thing: Money. They will produce DVD's for infinity if it makes them more money. Better tech or not, DVD wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't financially lucrative for them.

    Consumer's won't upgrade for 8 years at least. Period, no matter the tech

    Who did DVD's surprise? Rental chains, who saw their profits dip when more people bought that rented.
  • by Chordonblue ( 585047 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @11:53AM (#7827798) Journal
    Will be something like this:

    - A more technologically advanced format (and more expensive). I deem this to be Blu-Ray since the discs need casing and it needs a dual head assembly for compatability.

    Versus

    - A less technologically advanced standard (but less expensive). This would probably be HD-DVD.

    You've seen this movie before haven't you? I know I have. Guess who usually wins? I would bet on HD-DVD at this point. Blu-Ray might find a niche in data backups and the like however.

    At any rate, you Slashdotters out there, for one reason or another, will probably champion one of these formats. It's kind of like that +R/-R DVD argument (tastes great/less filling), except that there are far less differences between those formats than these new HD DVDs.

  • by mabhatter654 ( 561290 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @12:02PM (#7827843)
    I never understood why they didn't simply build decoding circiutry in to PC dvd players to start with! Then the drive could "show" the movie to the PC as a firewire video input? [obviously downsampled!] and be "remote controlled" by the PC without the actual movie data ever being "in" the PC. I never understood why consumer electronics wasn't more PC friendly in that department...if I could control my DVD player as a firewire or USB device and simply patch the video directly into my monitor most users that simply want to watch movies on a computer would be more than happy...and much of the "piracy" issues would be convienently "forgotten" about!

    On another note, a similar idea is the BIOS level CD/DVD players some media PCs shiped with earlier this year...great idea to let consumers watch movies and music, but keep it "seperate" from the actual PC! And very Linux friendly for both sides!

  • by Tenebrious1 ( 530949 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @01:14PM (#7828342) Homepage
    The consumers didn't lose out in the Betamax/VHS wars. They didn't lose out in the DVD/Divx wars. They didn't lose out in the DVD +/- wars. And they won't lose out in the new DVD format wars.

    Betamax sold some 30,000 units total. Today, DVD player sales easily exceed that number per month. Did the consumer lose in the DVD/Divx wars? Not at all. Have they lost in the +/- wars? Nope. Why? Simple. By the time the *average* consumer gets around to buying the product, market forces have already decided a winner.

    In the case of Divx vs DVD, half the "prosumers", the early adopters, lost out when they chose Divx. The other half made what turned out to be the right decision. For the average consumer, the bulk of the market, the decision need not be made, it's already been decided for them.

    Ditto with the DVD +/- market. The prosumers jumped on the first available DVD writers, and half of them may end up with useless writers. The vast majority of consumers will start buying DVD writers sometime this year (if ever), when technology has made the arguement moot with dual format writers.

    It happens in almost every market, with every technology. Yes, the prosumers sometimes lose, but that's the price they pay for buying into the cutting edge of technology. The average consumers don't lose, by the time they're ready to accept the technology it's all been sorted out for them.

    So new DVD format wars won't make any difference to consumers. If the format that wins the prosumer market isn't backwards compatible, by the time it reaches the consumer market, manufacturers will produce multi-format devices that are.

  • by ro_coyote ( 719566 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @02:34PM (#7829003)
    I can absolutely agree that DVDs are far superior to VHS, and certainly superior to Laserdiscs as well (our movie library was heavily based on the LD format in the past before DVD), and yeah, I know that its already been argued that it's a bunch of crap to force consumers to convert their entire movie collections yet again... but my complaint lies with our current format of DVD and how disappointed I have been with it. Here's my list...

    (1) Why do we still have so many different display-formatted DVDs out there (full-screen and wide-screen)? How difficult would it have been to simply make every DVD the same, and to supply a set of panning instructions to the DVD player itself to specify what visual portion of the movie will be displayed in full-screen mode?

    (2) Going off the same idea as #1, why couldn't these DVDs have been set up to be HDTV compatible in the first place? I realize that HDTV has a higher resolution and whatnot, but... how hard would it have been to force DVDs to meet the HDTV standard and simply resize the visuals for non-HDTV televisions? Hell, it might even encourage people to go and buy a HDTV if they knew they could further increase the visual quality of their current (and already paid for) collection...

    (3) You think this new format of DVD is going to be a pain in the ass to consumers, forcing them to switch over yet again to adopt the newest of the new? DVDs have made this jump once already... when dual-layer discs hit the market. No, the single-layer DVDs I had weren't worthless at all, but let me tell you... I wasn't too happy to know that I'd have to go buy a brand-new $300 player just to play dual-layer DVDs.

    (4) Also, why aren't all DVDs compatible with all the different DVD players out there? If DVD is a standardized format and all, why am I still finding a movie every once in a while that works in one player but not the other? I never had disc compatibility issues back with my VHS and LD players.

    (5) Now... this last one is just kinda nit-picky, but... regarding at least half of the DVDs I own, I absolutely hate their menus. Half the time I can't even tell what I'm selecting on the screen, or even know what all my options are. I know being unique is good and all, but why should a DVD that I purchased with my own money feel so alienated to me? Why must I solve puzzles to go through everything contained on my DVD?


    As far as I'm concerned, the DVD was something that had very great potential but didn't quite live up to what I wanted. Will this new HDTV DVD do well, or like the format before it will it end up wastefully in a landfill along the side of "useless" cell phones and computers?
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 29, 2003 @03:37PM (#7829502)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

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