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Your Future Car's Hood Will Be Welded Shut
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Re:It's a car for women! (Score:2, Interesting)
Not a new idea (Score:4, Interesting)
Fine By Me ... (Score:2, Interesting)
"... a car designed by women for women."
Fair enough. I know for sure my wife would never open a car bonnet. And anything that prevents me from having to do maintanance on her car is a plus.
No down side here from my point of view:
-Less hassle from Mrs
-Greater MPG due to better airflow
-Cleaner engine, moving parts would last longer
"Volvo will never actually take this car into production, of course."
They will if they get good press, look at the Audi TT.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:5, Interesting)
However, the whole article does read like something out of the Onion. Changable multi-coloured seat covers to match your clothes? If it wasn't true it would be a sexist joke.
I was talking with my wife about this and she said she likes having a bonnet that lifts up, as it acts as a kind of "distress flag" when she's waiting on the hard shoulder with a knackered car, hoping some good samaritan will pull over and help her out. I know that this, too, sounds like a sexist joke, but my wife said it first, and she's a woman, so that's OK, I guess.
Welded shut in a car designed by and for women... (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact you could also put that on a t-shirt - "Real Men Use Linux"
Good luck! (Score:2, Interesting)
Car welded shut is illegal in this country (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know what the legal precidents are in Europe, but in the US Volvo would be laughed out of court if someone sued.
Only a Volvo mechanic? *snicker* (Score:4, Interesting)
Please.....if someone wants that hood(bonnet) off , its coming off.....Volvo certified or not
It's amazing what improv tools mechanics can come up with
Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi (Score:2, Interesting)
This bears watching (Score:5, Interesting)
Just think, cars of the future could be the permanent property of the automotive world. You wouldn't but them, you would license them. I understand Idrive from BMW has a license sticker installed on the windshield that you are forced to accept (by removing) in some countries in order to use the car. All of this could be done with the law as it is today. Circumvention could be prosecuted under the DMCA.
Manufactures would love this because it would force people to get their maintence, even routine maintenence would have to be done at the dealership at their extremely expensive rates. Rates so expensive an entire industry literaly grew up around alternative service options.
Now for the outlandish. This would be a good thing - because it would show joe sixpack how licensing and the DMCA are uncapitalistic and harmful. Your plumber may not give two hoots about a computer, but you can be sure he'll raise hell if he finds out he can't change his own oil or give the old jalolopee to his kids.
My problem (Score:3, Interesting)
This sounds kinda like OSS vs proprietary software (Score:3, Interesting)
<snip>
"It is minimal maintenance, really, because the customers have limited time and they don't want a car that gives them a lot of hassle," said Ms Christiansen.
I realize this is just a concept car, so I'm not going to get too worked up about this. But this attitude does seems to be an analogue to the open-source vs closed-source software situation.
What this car relies upon is for nothing to go wrong, and for the internal diagnostics to catch any issues or errors that occur. Which is good, because it means most drivers -- who don't know much about how cars work -- will only need to interact with their car in a very cursory way. However, this attitude of welding the hood shut can also work against your average driver. For example, what if you want to add more oil to your car? Even if they redesigned the car so that you could check oil levels or add more oil easily, just as they moved the wiper fluid to more accessible location, what if you wanted to change your own oil, and save $30-$50? You couldn't, and in an emergency, you would need the help of a certified Volve mechanic to remove the hood. To me, this sounds kinda like Windows -- it's really easy to use and designed to take care of most problems, but when things invariably do go wrong, there's not much you can do to investigate (assuming you have the technical expertise, of course).
Right now, cars are kinda clunky and they might not have as much sophisticated diagnostics in place as this concept car, but you can get at everything when you need to. I can't see consumers giving this now that they have it, just as I can't see the open-source movement doing anything but making progress and gaining mind-/market-share in the coming years.
Roadside Breakdown - Hood Up == Distress (Score:4, Interesting)
Having the hood of a car up is a well recognized sign of vehicle breakdown, and that the driver could probably use assistance.
In my area of the world, if the police see a vehicle with the hood up without their own yellow police tape attached to the vehicle (to indicate they've dealt with this vehicle already), they'll stop and offer assistance.
How, exactly, is the driver of one of these vehicles supposed to use this very simple and well understood signal? Madly flag down drivers and risk getting run over?
And this is only ONE example of what a bad idea this vehicle is.
Re:Argh. (Score:5, Interesting)
The "Hood" is one peice, so there is no "hatch" like a traditional car. But it's still removable for access. The headline suggests the engine is completely sealed off to prevent anyone but the manufacturer from touching the insides.
Also, you make an interesting point about the type of people that would buy this car for the same rasons it was designed this way ("wold never oen the hood anyway"). From the article:
"So we shifted the filling station for washer fluid to the side of the car, next to where you fill up fuel, and we closed the bonnet for good."
Now taking bets on how often gasoline ends up in the washer fuild or vice versa!
The car should be programmed to discover any problems under the bonnet, then send a message to the garage to let them know.
Well that's something I don't particularly care for...
The mechanics would then contact the women directly to invite them over.
"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically.
So they have implemented a body scanning system...
The results of which are also sent to the mechanics so they can decide if they need to contact the driver directly and invite them to their shop!
=Smidge=
Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/empprotecti
Of course this wouldn't be the case with cars built with plastic frames.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:2, Interesting)
How is this new?
what next? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:5, Interesting)
And I am not singling out females here, it could just be as easily be a male. I once saw a guy who had both the radiator and oil caps off (because they were both low) proceed to put *oil* into to radiator. He (almost) immediately realised the mistake, but it was too late to do anything but flush the radiator.
Also hope they have some sort of interlock where only one can open at a time, or what is stopping you accidentally splashing water into the petrol outlet when filling up the washer tank ?
Not that I really care that much, can't really see this taking off
Meaningless analogy (Score:3, Interesting)
Okay, this is an absolutely terrible analogy. Why?
Engines are mechanical devices and wear down and break, just from everyday use. This doesn't happen to software. It doesn't wear out and break because you use it every day.
The majority of street car engines are essentially the same. If you understand the principles, you'll understand the principles in any car. Software is not the same. Just because you understand the architecture of a particular database program doesn't mean you have a clue about the architecture of other database programs. Obviously it doesn't mean you have a clue about the architecture of random page layout programs, photo editing programs, C++ compilers, and so on.
Along the same lines, which do you think is more complex? A car engine or the source code to gcc? Theres absolutely no doubt that it's the latter by an order of magnitude.
Just because you can open the hood to your car doesn't mean you know what to do with all those big boxes of chips and wires and a computer controlled fuel injector and so on. If you're riding down the highway and all of a sudden your digital speedometer goes our--or even simpler, the "check engine" light comes on--explain to me how lifting the hood is going to help you. Maybe in the 1970s when cars were simpler. Ditto for most software.
One of the keys to open source, one that even the advocates miss, is that it goes hand in hand with SIMPLICITY. If you have a well-written, clear, and short program, then you can tinker with it. You can't tinker with 200,000 lines of code, unless you have someone to walk through it with you and answer your questions. In reality, odds are that a blind change, no matter how experienced you are, is not going to be a good match for an architecture you don't fully understand.
Please, so-called open source advocates, enough with the soundbites and naive viewpoints. Be realistic.
I'm a car guy, but I'm lost. (Score:2, Interesting)
Men can have ponytails too. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a man and wore a ponytail for about 8 years or so and I can say that it did get in the way a little when putting my head against the headrest -- a topknot worked fine but doesn't suit me most of the time... Most cars don't put your head close enough to the headrest that this matters (or that they actually prevent whiplash) but in cars like Volvos where they are close, it does matter.
Porsche Boxster anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:4, Interesting)
Where he'll get into trouble is when he needs brakes the most -- a panic stop, or slowing down coming off that highway off-ramp, for example. Temperatures will elevate for an extended period of time, the water will boil, the pedal goes to the floor, and the local mortician scores another $10K for services rendered.
Longer term, that much water in the lines will cause severe corrosion of the brake lines and possibly inside the caliper.
(Personally, I think the whole thing is a troll.)
Re:Mechanics? (Score:3, Interesting)
More like to prevent non specialists from working on non-standard parts. Or to prevent accidents.
For example, I drive a VW Passat. Most of the connectors are simply bolts with either hex, torx or phillips head connectors, very easy to take off and remove. But the rear breaks, and the manual transmission fluid, take specialized tools. Why? Well, the transmission, because it's right next to the oil. They don't want some oil guy accidentally draining the the trans fluid, because you have to load it from the top (which I THINK means dropping the tranny a bit, AND having the tranny fluid available). The rear breaks, on the other hand, take a special tool because they are threaded to prevent lock ups on hills on cold days. You have to push in while twisting to replace the pads.
Now, if somebody didn't know this, and just assumed he could put a C clamp on it, he'd break the caliper. So there's no way to put a C clamp on it (lord knows I tried). The idea is, if you know enough to buy the special tool (which cost me $20 from germanautoparts.com), you know enough to do the repair.
Re:Maybe it's different in England (Score:5, Interesting)
Current advice in Britain is not to wait inside your car if the weather permits because of the remarkably high chance of getting shunted - hard - by another vehicle. You should get out of the vehicle and as far from the road as possible (e.g. behind the crash barrier). Basically, your chance of getting hit by a massive truck is much greater than your chance of a bad guy spotting you and stopping. I can't remember the fraction of accidents involving breakdowns on the side of the road, but I remember being startled by it. Emergency services now park their vehicle about 20 yards behind the breakdown to ensure that, if there is a hit, it is the empty emergency service van that gets hit. Even so, and despite their being covered with flashing lights, they still get hit.
You need a sense of priorities. Outside know "no go" areas, ordinary "innocent" traffic is a far greater danger than muggers, serial killers etc.
Re:Audi A2 (Score:3, Interesting)
Plugs, oil filter, air filter, battery, PCV valve, fuel filter, plug wires. And if the hood is sealed, you're not going to have access to a wide range of fairly important fluids, either -- oil, brake fluid, auto trans fluid, coolant.
I believe this is really just a ploy to promote the concept of "throw-away cars". You can get away with not touching those things for three years in most cases, but only if you don't plan to keep the car for much more than those three years... and the next buyer, who'd better be the type who performs regular maintenance -- he is screwed.
Re:You DON'T fix a modern car by yourself (Score:3, Interesting)
Food for thought (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually.... (Score:2, Interesting)
There would be almost new vehicles abandoned on the side of the road because the car's battery died or it got a flat tire or it was low on oil. They have enough money that they can do that.
So one day he goes to a junkyard, finds two identical Mercedez, one with a flat tire and one with a dead battery. He replaces the battery from the flat tire car and drives off.
S
Re:ummm what happens if the engine is on fire? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to mention freezing point (Score:2, Interesting)
If I had water in my break lines today I couldn't drive, because my break fluid would be froozen solid. The tempature outside is currently below freezing.
Corrosion can be delt with by various materials. I wouldn't place it as a major problem for brake lines anyway. I live in the "rust belt", where salt on the roads all winter long destroys cars. Brake line failures are rare around here.
Steam can be delt with too, just keep pumping more water into the lines. Not convient, and a lot harder to control the pressue, but it could be done.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:3, Interesting)
Damned plastic washer cap disinigrated on me...but, I'm careful not to put gas in it. How's your mileage? I'm almost up to 9-10 mpg....
You can see the engine in my car if you open the rear hatch..but, it isn't like you can do much to it. With these cars, your pretty much have to drop the engine to do something as simple as change the windshield wiper...
Re:Maybe it's different in England (Score:5, Interesting)
The Automobile Association [theaa.com] (AA) - one of the UK's major roadside assistance organisations - has the following advice:
"There is a perception that a 'lone female' is at risk of being attacked on a motorway hard shoulder. Research shows that the risk of being hit by another vehicle is much greater."
Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course you need the shop manual, but I buy that with every new car, it's about $100 or so, but it is definately worth it in the long run.
That "Check Engine" light (Score:3, Interesting)
A loose gas cap. If that light comes on, this is the first thing you check, because paying $100 for a mechanic to do it sucks a LOT. Luckily, I used to work in a garage so I learned this from OTHER people's experience.
Of course, after those are a whole host of things that don't even give particularly clear indicators to the tech with the manufacturer's diagnostic equipment.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:2, Interesting)
Most jets have provisions in their manuals to run on gas in an emergency.
Unfortunately piston engine planes when fueled with Jet usually run just long enough to get you killed.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:3, Interesting)
BTW: Gasoline is a type of refined Petroleum. When you say you're filling up your car with Petrol, it's a bit like saying you're taking the oil right out of the ground and immediately throwing it into your car.
Re:Maybe it's different in England (Score:2, Interesting)
In Minnesota, we also have the added benefit of "Highway Helpers." These folks drive around in bright green state-owned trucks with gasoline and various other things. They also notice people with the hood and trunk open.
Also, not everybody who can afford a car can afford a cell phone. Obviously, if this car coems to market, those unable to afford a cell phone will not be able to afford this car, but hoods that aren't openable by the user aren't a good idea in general.
The folks at Volvo who came up with this idea thought it was great, but they don't appear to realize that if you've got a hood, that doesn't mean you have to open it. You can still relocate the wiper fluid fill by the gas while leaving the hood accessable.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:3, Interesting)
Take a kettle full of water. Shut it airtight, preferably welded shut. Put it onto stove. Turn on the stove. Let it boil. Kaboom.
When gas is compressed, it's internal pressure raises. The same is true for fluid, however, with fluid, the internal pressure rises much more rapidly. That is why we can consider fluids uncompressable for practical applications; they compress, but that compression is negligible under "normal" pressures.
When steam is wented, it's pressure *drops*. If it is compressed, it's pressure *raises* (obviously, because otherwise you could compress it infinitely). If you want maximum pressure, take a closed system, fill it with liquid, make sure it has nowhere to expand to, and heat it up till the liquid boils.
Anyway, if your brake fluid would boil (and the brake system could withstand the resulting pressure), the brake would lock on "on". You wouldn't lose pressure, you would have too much of it.
Oh, but they do. (Score:3, Interesting)
People have actually tried to buy it from him, because if you want a Ford station wagon, that's apparently your best option.
For years, my father owned nothing but American (company, anyway) cars because that was what he knew how to fix. But he just bought a new car for the first time in years (the last few were used), and it was a Honda. Since he subscribes to a large network of mechanics (as part of his job), he can find out what breaks on which cars when, and he doesn't make uninformed decisions.
WTF. (Score:3, Interesting)
BTW *all* regular maintenance is included with newer audis for the length of the warranty, when a car comes out it is easy to turn off the info notices.
I'm sorry the mechanic there was unskilled and you and your friend are morons, hopefully life isn't too hard for you.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:5, Interesting)
Gas is short for gasoline. Petrol is short for petroleum. You don't put petroleum [cambridge.org] in a car, otherwise really bad things happen.
Before cars, there were both boots and trunks. Trunks [cambridge.org] were big cases used for storing things, like clothing. Boots were the things you put your feet inside. Which one of those two better describes how the storage area in your car is used?
Hood is the only one that doesn't have a strong case for it. Both hoods and bonnets are typically head coverings. Neither makes much sense when it comes to describing part of a car, but neither is better than the other.
What's wrong with everyone. It's a concept Car. (Score:3, Interesting)
Some ideas will make it to production cars, some will not. The maintenance free idea is probably everyone's dream. I see it as an extension of the hybrid car. The petrol/gasoline engine doesn't run as much and also runs at it's more efficient setting, so it takes more miles on the vehicle to require servicing. No radiator fluid is needed, because the smaller engine produces less heat. All the other parts probably follow the standard service periods. We all know approximately how long rubber belts will last before they fail. It's practically the same for almost every car. We know approximately how long batteries last. Tires have their own service periods, which is much longer than than the oil change and tune-up. It's a lower maintenance car.
When we get fuel cells and get rid of the petrol/gasoline engine, there will be even less parts to worry about failing. Electric motors last quite a long time. No more sparc plugs or engine oil changes. Just a fuel cell, which has non-moving parts, similar to a battery. Time between maintenance will certainly stretch beyond the 31,000 miles on volvo's concept car.
Cars Designed For Women Are Stupid (To This Woman) (Score:3, Interesting)
We need a concept car for this? That's what seat covers are for.
Seats with covers changeable to match my outfit
I have black seats. If I didn't have black seats, I'd have grey seats. Black and grey go with anything. But IT'S A CAR, NOT A DRESS. I get in the car to go somewhere. If I wear something nice, it has nothing to do with what the car looks like.
Auto-adjusting seats and pedals
Fantastic. I want this. My seat goes up and down and back and forth and the back tilts up and down, and the steering column goes up and down and in and out, but why can't I move the pedals back and forth? It's been done, and I'm short and I could really, really use that feature. Where is it?! Oh, and why can't I adjust the seatbelt more? I have to use cheap plastic adjusters to keep it off my neck, since a seatbelt on the neck is unsafe and uncomfortable.
Back seats that fold down only when needed
Well, that can be interesting, but I can either leave my seats folded down for carrying large stuff or just put stuff on the seats. Does this give me any more room than just leaving the seats as they are?
Hidden umbrella
Now that I like. I'm not sure where mine is and it's raining like crazy outside. I need to get one of those ultra-small foldable ones and stow it in the CD changer cubbyhole.
Welded-shut hood
Now this is stupid. Their justification is that people don't want to open the hood except when they want to refill washer fluid or check the oil. So they just want to put in a smaller hatch for that. Um... okay. So what's wrong with having one single hood that allows access to the engine AND allows refilling of vital fluids? I like being able to check my engine's condition and refill things and do whatever I want to it, like reverse VW's stupid decontenting (the car didn't come with OEM fog lights but it has them anyway, screw you VW). You're stupid if you can't see the big blue-colored flap for the washer fluid tank that also has the standard 'washer fluid' symbol stamped into it. Same with the oil filler cap which has a large picture of an oil container on it. Make things easy for me to find, but DON'T mess with my ability to do whatever I want to the car I own.
Automatically notices if something's wrong and contacts garage
That's what the "check engine" light (also called MIL) is for. It lights up if something is wrong and I need to get it fixed. But I'll do it on my own good time (I'll have a a local VW club member bring their scanner tool to the next meeting, or just borrow it from them, find out what the car thinks is wrong, and call a shop of MY choosing if it's something serious requiring a mechanic to fix; last time the light came on it was a momentary sensor failure; a shop would have charged me $100 to tell me that and clear the code.)
Ponytail-proof headrest
Good idea in theory, for people who may need an extra bit of room for that or any other reason, but I bet it looks really stupid. I often wear my hair in a ponytail, and I didn't think it was bad enough to require this sort of thing...
Never to go into production
THANK GOODNESS.
Other interesting tidbits
But many of the ideas hatched by the female think-tank may still appear in more conventional Volvos, as well as in other cars within the group.
Volvo is a subsidiary of Ford, and the Swedish carmaker's idiosyncratic insistence on practicality and safety seems to be spreading within the group.
Take the new Mondeo which is to be built on the Volvo S60 platform.
The decision was apparently taken after Volvo refused to accept plans to use a Mazda platform across the group since it did not live up to its safety standards.
Yay!
Found Dead... (Score:3, Interesting)
Modern aircraft still use dipsticks, because sensors don't always work.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:3, Interesting)
gas : Gas as in air and the like
-ol : from oleum, "oil" (petroleum being rock-oil)
-line : "of or relating to" or "made of, like"
Thus accurately describing the substance. Gasoline is the distilled fraction (a -line) of petroleum (-ol) that readily vaporizes (forms a gas).
Whereas, "petrol" is an Anglicized contracted form of the French essence de petrole, literally meaning "essence of petroleum". Essence, when used in distilling, meaning "a volatile (readily vaporizable) substance or constituent." Which is also an accurate description of the fuel for automobiles, being a readily vaporizable constituent of petroleum.
Thus both make perfect sense, since both are contractions of accurate descriptive terms. "Gas" is merely more prone to confusion with other meanings.
Re:It's a car for the clueless (Score:5, Interesting)
First, if you had the headlights on and turned off the car, they would stay on until you opened the door. Opening the door with the lights on and ignition switched off caused them to go off. But, this could be overridden by simply switching the lights back on. Then they wouldn't go back off until you turned them off.
Second, if you had the keys in the ignition and the door open, you couldn't lock the power door locks. Well, you could, but they would spring open a half second later, no matter if you locked it manually or with the button. Better yet, you couldn't trick this one. I once had the door open, took the keys out, locked the car, then deliberately put the key back in the ignition. Then I shut the locked door. The Celica detected the locked door, the fact that it was shutting, and the fact that my keys were in the car, and unlocked the door! The only way to lock the keys in the car was somehow lock the door while it was already shut (meaning you were in the car or had an extra set) or by leaving them on the seat instead of the ignition (as I accidently did one wintery night).
I've often wondered why this wasn't implimented in more cars. It was unobtrusive, never interfered with how I wanted to use the car and kept me from hurting myself. That's the epitome of good design.
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's a car for women! (Score:1, Interesting)