Nvidia Drivers Enforce Macrovision's Rules 306
Ant writes "According to 'Nvidia Macrovision DVD-TV rules forced on consumers', Nvidia drivers 41.09 and onwards include 'stringent checks' to comply with Macrovision requirements. That could mean if you have a TV encoder that does not support Macrovision, you may well get an error message depending on what DVD software player you are using, the company has said."
This has been here for a while (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This has been here for a while (Score:3, Informative)
LK
Re:This has been here for a while (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, thankfully we can spend money on software to re-enable functionality that was purposefully broken.
I am really just so thankful.
Re:This has been here for a while (Score:3, Informative)
Gee, a person could feed those signals into a VCR and tape DVDs if they wanted to... good thing that converting from one format to another for your personal viewing is Fair Use.
Re:This has been here for a while (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This has been here for a while (Score:3, Insightful)
I was not aware that nvidia cards forced you to install every driver update.
Re:This has been here for a while (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't insightful, just dickish. Driver updates do a lot more than just add copy protection - they increase performance and fix bugs, too.
Yes, you could keep running your detonator 40s without upgrading, and that's probably a great solution for people running old, integrated chipset or underpowered cards. But for the majority of nvidia driver users it's not useful advice at all. Good luck playing Far Cry, or any other new game on pre-41.09 drivers. Hamstringing a video card that costs twice as much or more than your average game console, so that it can't ably play games anymore, is not an acceptable solution.
There's no reason to play apologist here or to tell people to stop complaining. The complaint is just, and the situation fixable. If you don't have anything useful to contribute... don't contribute at all.
Linux surely is growing instead (Score:2, Informative)
given: p(L)=const., M increasing.
result: M(L) also increasing.
Number of machines increased, percentage steady = Linux machines increased. qed.
previous slashdot article stuck in my mind (Score:3, Insightful)
And I can relate to the "unpopular opinion" concept that the parent post has just talked about, because I was just feeling that way yesterday. I guess the best we can do
Great move ! (Score:5, Funny)
ATI 4 life! (Score:2, Troll)
As I've bought a bigger CRT display (21'), it came out, that there is some "ghosting" effect on that cheap NVidia, and I need to replace it with something better, just because my cheap clone was based on the hardware unsuitable for big displays. I have heard, that ATI somehow "supports" opensource communities - or at least gives th
Re:ATI 4 life! (Score:5, Informative)
Used to support the open source communities would be more like it. I've been using ATI cards for as long as I can remember.
There was a time when ATI did things for us like funding Precision Insight to develop the open source Radeon driver in the first place. They used to be very good about providing specifications, although under an NDA which for some bizarre reason they require developers to sign, but allow them to publish drivers based on their contents. At the time they were the underdog in the 3D graphics market though.
Now a days though, they don't fund any OSS development, and provide a binary driver instead. They will not give you specifications for any cards until they are close to their end-of-life. DRI and Gatos have done great work despite this, but ATI shouldn't be congratulated on today's treatment of the open source community.
They still do have specs available from the developer relations [ati.com] page under NDA. But I doubt you'll get anything from them that would be considered current hardware.
Re:ATI 4 life! (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem with current hardware is that it became very complex, so one needs much more time per single session of coding to achieve something useful. Long stretches of spare time are hard to come by.
Also, I want to correct you - it was Weather Channel that funded development of 3d DRI driver for radeon 8500 and 9200 cards, not ATI. (see Tungsten Graphics [tungstengraphics.com])
Also ATI does provide sample cards to developers which is bi
Re:ATI 4 life! (Score:4, Informative)
I'm pretty sure that's what I said. What they don't do, is provide the specs for the current generation of hardware.
it was Weather Channel that funded development of 3d DRI driver for radeon 8500 and 9200 cards, not ATI
Let me refer you to an interview [linuxjournal.com] with Daryl Strauss of Precision Insight:
Daryl: The only companies that have announced anything publicly are 3dfx, ATI and Intel.
As well as the XFree86 documentation [xfree86.org]:
Precision Insight, Inc.
Cedar Park, TX
USA
I was mistaken in that it was the Rage128 driver that was funded by ATI, and then the Weather Channel funded that to be extended to the Radeon GPU.
Also ATI does provide sample cards to developers which is big help
That is true. I guess they do deserve some credit for that.
Re:ATI 4 life! (Score:2, Troll)
I replaced it with a 2004 VW Jetta.
I was stunned.
Everything worked as expected, no problems at all, no hangs, no sudden reboots, no nothing.
At least try and compare recent video cards.
Re:ATI 4 life! (Score:2)
Re:Great move ! (Score:2, Insightful)
From now on, bye nvidia, hello ATI
Why do the great companies always end up like this?
Re:Great move ! (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's see how the "nvidia are great, we trust their binary drivers" fanboys react to this one...
Re:Great move ! (Score:4, Funny)
3:10pm: "Score:0, Flamebait"
Guess that answers that question.
Re:Great move ! (Score:2)
3:30pm: "Score: 2, Flamebait"
3:40pm: "Score: 3, Funny"
Re:Great move ! (Score:3, Insightful)
ATI and NVIDIA open source drivers do not have the same capabilities. ATI, like NVIDIA, also releases binary only [slashdot.org] drivers for their recent hardware and no longer provides useful technical data for them to anyone, including OSS developers.
That said, yes, both NVIDIA and ATI have to be forced to rel
Re:Great move ! (Score:3, Insightful)
Breaks my heart! They too, like everyone else, have to obey copyrights and software licenses. That's what competition is all about. If they are willing to ditch 5-10% of their market, it's their choice. Someone like Matrox and other underdogs will pick it up from there.
AC + personal insults + cliches = you are not trying to argue or discuss. Good going, AC. Maybe I shouldn't have replied.
Re:Great move ! (Score:3, Insightful)
That's more of an argument to purchase a system or a video card that will be fully supported on both OSes. As far as their cards, they don't have as large of an array to choose from but they are making a significant progress [matrox.com]. I currently use NVIDIA, but next time I am in the market, I will definitely consider Matrox. And t
Re:Great move ! (Score:3, Informative)
About a year ago I bought an ATI 9500 Pro because of rave reviews, and friends who liked them. I've actually only ever been able to use the card for a month - as I'm on card #4 now. Because of a manufacturing flaw in the card itself it tends to overheat and damage the card permanently. Check out this article [frostytech.com] to see what I'm talking about.
Around card number 3 I bought a NVidia 5900 and I haven't looked back - its brutally fast, 100% re
Re:Great move !-Bend over and take it in the Walle (Score:3, Insightful)
You do understand that business is a process not an event? I've personally spent several thousand dollars over the past ten years on video cards for myself and my family and will probably do so over the next ten. It's not whether nvidia has my money now, it's that they won't get any of my money in the future if they continue down this path of providing only intentionally crippled drivers for their cards.
Now, I'm not going to scrap the few nvidia cards I have. I'll ju
Non free badness (Score:5, Insightful)
Time for thanks for the DRI team, methinks.
Re:Non free badness (Score:5, Interesting)
What this means is if you want to play 3D games in Linux, you have to use non-free drivers. I *wish* there was some hardware out there that was mid-range and had free drivers!
Having said all that, I believe the article is about Windows, rather than Linux, though the restrictions might also exist on the Linux binary-only nvidia drivers.
Re:Non free badness (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Non free badness (Score:3, Insightful)
Try turning up the resolution a little bit and see what happens, with all lighting and detail options set. Wait, you say that not all lighting and detail settings will even work on a 9200? I guess we have a disqualification.
Just because you don't use Linux for anything cutting edge doesn't mean no one else wants to. Playing UT2004 on a 9200 is not going to give you the full experience.
Re:Non free badness (Score:5, Insightful)
The upshot is, if you use an unlicensed DVD player, like MPlayer, Ogle, or VLC, it will never even try to turn on Macrovision, so the driver change will have no effect. Granted, this may be illegal, in the Land of the Free at least. (IANAL)
Re:Non free badness (Score:4, Funny)
Naturally none of these guys ever just decrypts the data on the dvd, strips out just the movie and audio track and re-encodes in onto a vcd or dvd4 with an automagic program, no, as this is clearly much more difficult;
Face it, Macrovision is done, obsolete; It is no longer an impediment, or even reasonable barrier to copy protection; its only remaining function is to prevent FAIR USE.
As with my CD's, I rip all of my DVDs into divx files which I store on the hard drive of my HTPC so I can choose the video/audio I want from the comfort of the sofa; this is perfectly legal in Australia, we call it "media shifting"; for those of you in the US, I believe this is called "Piracy". You see, we still have to comit a crime before we get punished for it down here
Once upon a time, there was a Land of the Free, called the United States of America, where such freedoms were protected by law; but then an evil fairy by the name of Bono came along and stole all of those freedoms in the name of keeping a mouse eared tool of Nazi Propaganda in the hands of a large corporation (lets not think about why you would want to continue to own such a thing)long after the death of its misguided creator; now those who love freedom must run to hallowed sanctuaries like Australia or New Zealand, where we are still free... thought the dark evil stain of North American Copyright Law has leapt the big pond and now begins to tarnish our beautiful Australia; man, New Zealand is going to be crowded soon
wow, where did that soapbox come from???
sorry guys
err!
jak
Re:Non free badness (Score:3, Interesting)
No, it's not called piracy at all. In fact, you couldn't find a single person ever getting in trouble for doing it.
In fact, the only law it MIGHT run afoul of is the DMCA, but that's never been tested in court. So, it's legal until a judge says otherwise.
Re:Non free badness (Score:5, Interesting)
I mean, why would a company like NV bother with this unless there was a financial incentive?
It seems rather silly, overall. Why would anyone want to copy a DVD to a VHS tape? It pretty much kills the picture quality and destroys any special features the DVD might have had. Especially when you can just copy the raw MPEG stream from the disc!
Re:Non free badness (Score:2)
Now with cheap DVD burners and $30 players, there's really no reason.
Chris
Re:Non free badness (Score:2)
Of course, that use would be covered by fair use laws... Thank you, MPAA!
Re:Non free badness (Score:5, Interesting)
The real question is if it was a bribe, or a threat? Certainly, Macrovision and the DVD-forum wouldn't be too happy about a product not supporting Macrovision, so how likely would it be that they could/would attack Nvidia over their cards not supporting Macrovision? There's certainly a decent case for claiming that non-compliant cards are copyright removal device, setting Nvidia up for a DMCA suit.
Long live... (Score:4, Funny)
Then I guess... (Score:5, Informative)
Never had a problem like this... (Score:5, Informative)
Then again, I am using TVTool [tvtool.info] to get my Nvidia card to go TV-out in full-screen and without macrovision. Not that I need the last one, never interested in copying DVD to VHS anyway.
Re:Never had a problem like this... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Never had a problem like this... (Score:2)
Re:Never had a problem like this... (Score:2)
The poster said "Not that copying dvds to vhs (why?!) is the only reason to disable macrovision out there."
Just wait (Score:5, Informative)
Right now I'm using a different tool to circumvent various dvd protections.
DVDIdle, no regions, no Macrovision, no nothing and it even lets me skip those annoying warnings "Thou shalt not reproduce this disc"
Re:Just wait (Score:2)
I really dont want to bring my origional DVD's on a trip anyways and ANYONE can afford aset top DVD player for home.. ($29.00 for a cheapie that I DARE you to see a visual difference on a regular NTSC television from a $5000.00 Denon Dvd player.)
for travel I only carry ripped dvd's if any, Mostly I carry divx's I made of the movie on the hard drive... and those al
Re:Just wait (Score:2)
This is news? (Score:5, Informative)
Current nVidia drivers are 56.xx series.
'News' indeed...
MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, IT DOES! (Score:2, Informative)
We get beat up by everyone for "piracy" - when in fact all we want to do is to do the right thing.
This means that if you want to actually pay for a DVD, and watch it, even though you don't have a TV hooked up, the stupid Macrovision prevents you to do that, meaning, you HAVE to use hacking tools, just to enjoy something you paid for.
This is plain bullshit. If someone wants to make a VHS copy of their DVD, LET THEM! I thought that making analog copies of digital works was covered under fair use!
Re:This is news? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is news? (Score:2)
Re:This is news? (Score:5, Funny)
I've been reading /. for a long time (Score:5, Insightful)
The marketplace is robust (Score:5, Insightful)
By the same token, producers will continue to try to force their consumers into certain directions.
It's just part of the grand evolutionary struggle between producers and consumers that has resulted in such wonderful things as P2P and the DCMA.
DRM enforced bit by bit (Score:2, Interesting)
And in the long run this will mean you can't even decide for your self what you can do with your computer/software, no this decision will be made by your vendor!
mplayer (Score:2)
revelations from my desk (Score:4, Insightful)
2. Nvidia will sell a few less units because of this, (what a foolish business strategy). God, have they not heard of a successful strategy called "Ethics?, profit is prime"
3. Macrovision is a bit pointless when you can rip the dvd straight from the dvdrom drive. Having it there will save the film industry sum in total ZERO.
These obvious statements have been brought to you by another anonymous coward.
Re:revelations from my desk (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see anything unethical about what they are doing. Like everyone else, I find it annoying in the extreme that I should be inconvenienced by DRM protection. However, implementing DRM isn't unethical, in fact, it is easily argued that it IS ethical to try to stop people from using your product to break the law, especially in this case where there is no proof that Nvidia will benifit financially from this move.
That
Re:revelations from my desk (Score:5, Insightful)
When I buy a videotape I pay a levy due to the fact that I have a right to make a personal copy of a copyrighted work on it.
How is it ethical for the movie industrie and hardware producers to take away that possibility while on the other side I AM PAYING FOR IT ???
Sorry but it is not ethical, and it doesn't stop piracy either, never did.
2 words (Score:2, Informative)
runs in the background like a service and stealthily removes all region/macrovision bullshit, works like a charm on my Ti4400 GF4 + latest 56.72 drivers
ATI Radeon DVD Player and copy protection (Score:5, Interesting)
I was just reading about the DVD player included with the ATI Radeon All In Wonder series. It says that screen captures and other things I might want to do will not function if the DVD is copy protected. Here is the quote from the ATI document -
Recording from a Source Encoded with Analog Copy Protection
The ATI ALL-IN-WONDER? products detect analog copy protection on the input source and will refuse to capture video from such sources. The record button automatically becomes disabled. Further, TV-ON-DEMAND is not possible with an analog copy protected source.
Since for all practical purposes there are only two video-card manufacturers and both of them enforce Macrovision DRM, I have no other choice than avoid buying DVDs, at least the legit ones. So it's DivX or DVD-R from P2P or a pirated DVD.
P.S. I wish there was a digital freedom fighters group with a PayPal account.
Re:Why record when you can rip? (Score:2, Informative)
EFF (Score:5, Informative)
PayPal accepted, amongst other methods.
Re:EFF (Score:2)
Re:ATI Radeon DVD Player and copy protection (Score:5, Informative)
How about the good old EFF [eff.org]? They claim to be "defending freedom in the digital world" which is exactly what you wished for. You can join or just donate [eff.org] and choose paypal as payment method.
Re:ATI Radeon DVD Player and copy protection (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org]
Windows or Linux? (Score:2, Redundant)
ttyl
Farrell
Re:Windows or Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
almost hesitate to mention it (Score:5, Interesting)
The sum total of my experience with Macrovision (Score:5, Interesting)
At another point, I had a set-top DVD player, and was trying to use it with an old TV player which had only a coaxial RF input. So at first I passed the signal through a VCR, which of course made Macrovision wreck the signal (image fading in and out, just like in the previous example). Until I scrapped an old Nintendo RF adaptor (which is probably DMCA-illegal for some convoluted reason also-- I mean, hell
So, let's review. Macrovision has made it more difficult for me to play legally-owned DVDs. And it's pissed me off even more at the MPAA for getting in bed with those fucktards. So... what, again, does Macrovision do to decrease piracy? I can testify that it makes me more interested in disobeying the MPAA cartel's stupid rules, since all it seems to do is annoy people and force them to buy (or build) more equipment...
stop buying them (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop buying DVDs.
They're not water or air, they're fucking DVDs. The world will not end if you do not own the entire 12 season of the Simpsons in full digital with Dolby 5.1 surround sound. And they have made it crystal clear to me and I'd assume to you that they do not want our business. Why still give it to them?
A bit old? (Score:2)
yrs,
Ephemeriis
Should have warnings (Score:3, Interesting)
btw clear warning doesnt mean pt.6 font next to "all rights reserved"
Macrovision?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Movies on VHS tapes have Macrovision, too! (Score:2)
I bought a vidoe stabliizer, but it proved not to solve the problem.
Re:Movies on VHS tapes have Macrovision, too! (Score:4, Informative)
Professional VCRs [google.com] typically have a TBC built in; you can also get a standalone TBC [bhphotovideo.com]. Either way, they're not particuarly cheap, but if you're going to be backing up a large VHS library, it's probably a good investment.
See the ArsTechnica Guide to Capturing, Cleaning, & Compressing Video [arstechnica.com] and the sci.electronics.repair Macrovision FAQ [repairfaq.org] for more info.
Umm. Duh. (Score:2)
Blackmarket Drivers (Score:2)
Of course you get caught watching your own DVD with one of these driers, you go to jail..
That is until longhorn, which wont even let you install the driver unless its 'trusted' by Microsoft. ( that is, if you use windows )
Next step will be firmware level.. but then we can sue due to selling defective hardware... perhaps...
( whats next, video drivers that
They certainly are good at screwing themselves... (Score:5, Insightful)
Meet our friend Mr. Macrovision. Phew, another glorious victory for the Content Trust(tm) over the Stupid/Evil Consumer(tm)!
What's positively hilarious about this is that no one gives a shit about copying content back to analog. Hello - it's 2004, people. This perfectly exemplifies the stuck-in-the-distantly-receeding-past mentality these guys have. Analog hole? What about the gaping digital hole? People who bother are copying straight to their computer! Fully 3/4 of the people reading this probably haven't used their VCRs since they last dusted off the video store's copy of Capricorn One.
Yet the Trust still races around showing everyone who's boss. That Macrovision protection is important! Ignore it at your peril! Hah.
All this will accomplish is that more people who use their computer with their TV are going to have a problem.
And those people will get angry. Who wouldn't? What an insult! They will soon learn about the foreign, boring field of intellectual property law - it's neither so foreign nor so boring anymore. They'll also learn about the messy campaign the Content Trust(tm) is running to hijack it.
They will find that, to watch their own videos, they need to go into the back alley, to meet the Dread Pirates(tm)... only, look how friendly and helpful they are. "I think I'll remember them - I'll probably be back again soon."
Keep creating criminals, you captains of industry (Score:4, Interesting)
My first reaction is, "why the hell do I even buy DVDs in the first place when I can download this shit from usenet or IRC and view it with all of the quality and none of the hassle?", not "gee where's my standard DVD player to watch this?".
As a gullible idiot who legitimately buys software and entertainment media I envy the warez doodz more and more every day. With every "insert original CD to play" and "playback disabled" message I question my purchases. Every time I am forced to apply a crack to achieve the same level of playability pirates have, my sympathy expands.
outdated.... (Score:2, Interesting)
fuckers. (Score:3, Insightful)
My decoder doesn't honor Macrovision...but if the drivers do, it fucks up stuff.
Use VideoLAN (Score:4, Interesting)
That is the last NVidia product I will ever buy, even if it means I have to live with sub-par (which isn't the case currently) hardware.
Back to the point, VideoLAN had come to the rescue. Plays all my dvds, to their full extent, it's free, practical and light.
Oh. Cross platform too...
Re:Use VideoLAN (Score:3, Informative)
What year is it? (Score:5, Funny)
Nvidia Macrovision DVD-TV rules forced on consumers
Cuts out other TV encoders
By INQUIRER staff: Thursday 20 March 2003, 10:19
In other news, Reagan beats Carter, Soviets back down over Cuban missle issue, and WR Hearst says the USS Maine was sunk my a Spanish mine.
I was wondering which card to buy, now I know. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I was wondering which card to buy, now I know. (Score:4, Informative)
Nvidia install script removes all versions (Score:4, Informative)
This has nothing to do with Macrovision, but it's another reason to dislike or distrust Nvidia.
Re:Restrictions on playing DVDs (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Restrictions on playing DVDs (Score:2)
That seems to be the case, I doubt this will effect Linux people since we have been using illegal software(DeCSS) to watch DVDs anyway, I bet this mainly pertains to Windows apps like WinDVD. It's all silly anyway since you can still use an external VGA->TV converter. NVIDIA's TV-encoders aren't even all that good.
Re:Alternatives = none? (Score:2, Informative)
This system messes with the video signal that leaves
the device in such a way as to confuse the AGC (automatic gain control) in he video signal receiver (TV), which in turn screws up the picture.
All new digital products that output an analog video signal will/should have this system designed into them, to prevent the analog signal bieng cop
Re:Alternatives = none? (Score:2)
I have never had a problem with recording the analog output from a Satellite of Cable decoder.
LK
Re:Alternatives = none? (Score:4, Informative)
NTL's pay-per-view movie service is Macrovision-crippled, but Macrovision strippers are readily obtainable from camcorder specialists {they're needed in order to watch macrovision-crippled cassettes/DVDs on most professional-grade monitors}.
As an aside, what happens if your device's internal macrovision-crippler goes faulty and stops generating the Macrovision spikes? If you never tried to do anything with it that the manufacturers didn't want you doing, then you might never find out it wasn't working!
How Macrovision Works (Score:2, Informative)
The RF output of a VCR recorder does have macrovision, RF modulation does not affect the operation of macrovision (macrovision is designed with this in mind). Macrivision's protection scheme works mainly by sending a
"Macrovision is a videotape copy protection for VHS video cassette recorders [24]. It is used on pre-recorded videotapes, and it seems to be more common
Re:Alternatives = none? (Score:2)
I suspect they exascerbated a flaw. I find it hard to believe a 2004 or even 2000 VCR by any manufacturer would contain this provision unless government mandated. Hell they wont even stick to the region coding on the DVD players.
Re:Alternatives... (Score:2, Insightful)
WTF? Who needs this kind of preaching, guy? I doubt many that bought an Nvidia card were aware that this would happen, and I don't see anyone defending nvidia's specific decision here.
I won't be buying an nvidia card again but I'm not about to just throw away the $300 one I have and buy a new one because of shitty drivers. Your message was totally unhelpful and borderline trolling.
Re:Alternatives... (Score:5, Insightful)
That sounds like the excuse people get when they protest about Bush taking away their freedoms. Nobody's forcing you to live here you know, you could move to Canada hippie. The fact of the matter is, in the desktop graphics world Nvidia and ATI cards are the only viable options. The rest of the stuff out there is crap hardware-wise. Unfortunately both of these platforms are encumbered with binary-only drivers.
Sure, there was a day when Matrox ruled the roost, but the days of 2D-only use are long gone by most people. Anyone hoping to play games will need to purchase an Nvidia or ATI card. Matrox is only good for spreadsheets, word processing, and CAD.
Re:Alternatives... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The software must cooperate (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The software must cooperate (Score:3, Informative)
Really? That's a shame... (Score:5, Insightful)
Based on what I'm hearing about NV40 (16 pipelines, MPEG encoding acceleration, etc.), it seems that Nvidia will be getting my business again this summer, and that hasn't happened for a couple of years now. I currently own a Radeon 9800 Pro.
I suppose it all depends on your application, but it seems silly to diss a card just because the rules that already exist are being enforced -albeit more stringently. Besides, do you really believe that the drivers are 'unhackable'?