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GUI Software Operating Systems

Sphere XP Makes GUI 3D 386

Cypherus writes "I came across a link for a 3d desktop environment. "The SphereXP is a 3D desktop replacement for Microsoft Windows XP. Taking the known concept of three-dimensional desktops to its own level. It offers a new way to organize objects on the desktop such a icons and applications. Check the videos and screenshots to get the idea.""
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Sphere XP Makes GUI 3D

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  • 3D input devices (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Matt Moyer ( 763238 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:22PM (#8865623) Homepage
    I really don't think the 3d desktop will be feasable until we have some form of useful, cheap, and easy to use 3D input device. Anyone work with this sort of thing?
  • by aliens ( 90441 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:24PM (#8865649) Homepage Journal
    What I have yet to see on any sort of 3D gui, is a thought out plan. (If anyone has please link)

    I would like to see some thought like a list of limitations that the 2D GUI paradigm currently has and how a 3D GUI could address these issues while not producing a huge long list of its own problems.

    Until then, this looks cool, but is in no way a step forward, back, up or down. It's just kinda there.
  • Its not a bad idea (Score:3, Interesting)

    by voss ( 52565 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:27PM (#8865670)
    Imagine if someone came up with a VR desktop for linux that would work with those 3d goggles...you would finally have something jaw dropping to talk about that would be really cool. Instead of a clunky mouse, use a goggle to grab your windows with get this ...handles...not some silly virtual hand like in the olden crappy vr days...combine that with a virtual keyboard and youve really got something.
  • Hmm, 3D Desktop... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lightknight ( 213164 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:38PM (#8865733) Homepage
    This (SphereXP) is almost painful to use. Not that it's a bad design (it's very interesting), but I've seen the videos from a while back (I'm working on something that competes along these lines, have to keep tabs...). Two things I would say to the coder: 1.) CSGL is no longer being developed. Switch to Tao (http://www.randyridge.com). 2.) Try and keep the amount of effort (moving around, switching tasks) to a minimum. Download the videos, you will see what I mean. Lots of bad clicking and scraping while moving around the sphere.

    The biggest problem I've run into (again, I'm working on something in the 3D Desktop arena), is that in windows, you cannot jack the Paint APIs (easily). So you can't just grab a window and throw it into OpenGL. Additionally, you can't modify the source (closed-source) to grab the windows...Which I am attempting to rectify with some assembly code, but it's still a pain.

    The nice thing about Tao? Cross-platform (somewhat). As for my program? It will be released after I finish the assembly.
  • by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:38PM (#8865738) Homepage
    I know what you mean. I've seen a few 3D desktops before (I've seen this one before, plus Sun's 3D demo which I liked) and they all seem to be pushing the 2D paradigm into 3D. No one is really "using" 3D, they all seem to be making a 2D desktop where the 2D windows can be put "in the background" or something like that for the use of 3D. Nothing really "innovative".

    Like I said, I really like the way Sun did their 3D desktop demo, but it's still not really a 3D desktop, just a 2D desktop with a 3rd deminsion.

  • A good alternative (Score:2, Interesting)

    by openSoar ( 89599 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:45PM (#8865786)
    I've been using this [spatialresearch.com] for some time now and like it a lot. Typically, the major problem with these applications is texture management - something that isn't an issue in the 2D world - and this one seems to do it very well on my ancient GeForce256. Once Longhorn comes out (:)) then this kind of thing will become more prevalent, if for no other reason than much of what you need to do it is built into the OS - video here [extremetech.com]. The other approach is not to make a desktop replacement, but create a while new platform [musecorp.com].
  • Re:Not impressed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JohnnyCannuk ( 19863 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:53PM (#8865848)
    Ok, so don't use it. You don't have to use Windows or X or OSX today either. You can stick with the command line, or fvwm or something nice and lite so you can use your processing power as you see fit.

    But since hardware is cheap, and most regular users don't use the power of the machines they have anyway, why not let them choose a desktop like this? For them it could greatly increase the easy of use of a computer, perhaps letting them do their jobs better or enjoy their experience on the computer more.

    Isn't that more important than wheter YOU think Looking Glass or this particular 3D desktop is annoying? If this thing really is annoying and hard to use, it'll go the way of NextStep, and AmigaOS and all the other desktop systems that nobody in mainstream society uses.... ...but what if it really does work better than what we have now?

  • Re:Not impressed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lurgen ( 563428 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:58PM (#8865875) Journal
    People who said that about Windows were obviously not paying attention. Being able to carry out multiple tasks in parallel, to have several applications available to facilitate workflow, that's dead simple to justify.

    Bear in mind that the windowed nature of the Windows GUI wasn't the big step forward - the multiple application, flexible workflow side of things is what truly mattered (working in windows had been around for ages, just look at the Mac, or even better GEOS on the C64!).

    Having a pretty 3D interface to do the same thing? I'm not convinced. Gimme something truly revolutionary.
  • Re:/. effect (Score:2, Interesting)

    by JPriest ( 547211 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:59PM (#8865879) Homepage
    Well here is a link [216.239.39.104], while you are google, please do a search for HTML in 10 minutes [google.com]
  • 3dwm (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:59PM (#8865880)
    remember 3dwm anyone? looks like its dead now. 3dwm website [3dwm.org]
  • by knodi ( 93913 ) <softwaredeveloper.gmail@com> on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:59PM (#8865881) Homepage
    I tried this out last week, it relatively sucked. Framerate was about 0.5 per second, visual defects were everywhere, just seemed like an interesting concept wrapped in bare proof-of-concept code.
  • by wo1verin3 ( 473094 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @10:00PM (#8865889) Homepage

    PC INpact Screenshots [pcinpact.com]

  • Re:Old != Bad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BandwidthHog ( 257320 ) <inactive.slashdo ... icallyenough.com> on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @10:04PM (#8865918) Homepage Journal
    I purchased CodeTek's Virtual Desktop a while back, and basically ignored Exposé when 10.3 came out. I decided to give it a shot a few weeks ago, and am now in the "how the hell did I live without it?" camp. It's even better when you've got some spare mouse buttons to dedicate to it.
  • well, about that... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by trs9000 ( 73898 ) <trs9000@gmail . c om> on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @11:50PM (#8865956)
    they all seem to be pushing the 2D paradigm into 3D. No one is really "using" 3D

    i get what you mean and i agree
    however:
    it seems to me that what you describe probably wont be feasible until we are using something other than a flat screen as our display, donchathink?
    (and i realize this is not necessarily the case but it would have to be a dramatically new paradigm and i cant imagine an alternative)
    i suspect that the innovation is going to have to come from a hardware / input side of things to get that going. in the mean time though, im glad that theyre pushing things forward and trying it out (i only saw a brief glimpse cause of slashdotting but seems interesting from a research pov at least)

    a
  • Re:Not impressed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Eil ( 82413 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @11:54PM (#8865983) Homepage Journal

    The downside of these interfaces is the ridiculously high processor and memory requirements. All that extra graphic manipulation comes at a price, and I for one don't see any reason to waste processor cycles.

    They also said that "glass teletypes" would be too bulky and difficult to read. They said that color graphics were a perfectly good waste of video RAM. And 2D graphics with a mouse would never catch on because pointing and clicking at rectangles all day long would get much too tedious.

    Of course the 3D desktop comes at a price. It's not practical these days anyway, but it might be in the future. That "might" is very much the key. Even if this is all smoke and mirrors (doubtful, but possible), it makes the company look good. It's "innovation." It might become the next trend.

    This Sphere XP is not in use right now because there are significant limiting factors. Computing resources, navigation, ease of use, etc. The whole purpose of research like this is to try to find new ways over those hurdles. If they just sat around all day shaking their heads and saying, "this is pointless, why don't we combine OS X and Windows XP instead?" they... well, they'd end up being you.

    What I'd much rather see is somebody developing a faster, more lightweight UI that is a nice combination of OSX and Windows XP. One that chews up LESS memory (instead of more, like this), one that speeds things up.

    Better get coding, because if what's currently out there doesn't suit your needs, it's highly unlikely that someone's going to rap on your chamber door and volunteer to sit down and start banging out customized software just for you.
  • Re:Old != Bad (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gooser23 ( 113782 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @12:06AM (#8866060)
    With a virtual desktop you couldn't do that, and with a traditional desktop you'd constantly have to be switching, because most likely you'd have the IDE and document fullscreened.
    The problem isn't traditional desktops, but the MS Windows-like multiple document interface that demands to take up the whole screen. I have no problem in OS X using Xcode, gimp, and SubEthaEdit simultaneously, with multiple windows/tool bars open for each app/document window. I suppose it also helps that there's only one menu bar, not to mention Exposé.
  • 3d add on for Linux (Score:2, Interesting)

    by blizzard854 ( 726159 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @12:08AM (#8866085)
    Not sure if anyone has seen this but... Linux 3d add on [sourceforge.net] [sourceforge.net] This program allows a 3d environment to appear when you want to change between virtual desktops... Once again looks cool... But useful? Not really...
  • Re:3D input devices (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Arkus ( 15103 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @12:09AM (#8866093)
    Check out this glove [essentialreality.com] from Essential Reality. It reminds me of the powerglove from the original nintendo, but includes source code for Linux and M$ Windows. I've been considering picking up one just to try my hand at some 3D desktop interface programming.
  • by The Rizz ( 1319 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @12:22AM (#8866175)
    As soon as I saw this on slashdot, I thought I'd quick take a look at it before it got swamped - I actually got all the images and videos downloaded before the site went down due to /. effect.

    I was thinking I could put a .torrent of it up for download, but realized that I didn't have any tracker to post it to if I did make one...

    Perhaps Shalsdot needs to look into providing a public tracker for backups of video/images/etc. from sites they link to.

    --The Rizz

    "The girl who swears no one has ever made love to her has a right to swear." --Sophia Loren
  • Re:Not impressed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 15, 2004 @12:23AM (#8866178)
    Spoken like a true newbie. GEOS didn't come along for the C64 until way late in its life cycle (long after Macs). Windows wasn't able to "carry out multiple tasks in parallel" (non-preemptive multitasking) until 1995, 10 years after the Amiga did it.

    You'll be so busy waiting for something "revolutionary" that you won't be paying attention when such evolutionary technologies as this roll right past you. It's not what it can do that you should be seeing, but what it will be capable of someday (the guy says it's research and a work in progress). GUIs have always been evolutionary - you said it yourself.
  • Re:Old != Bad (Score:4, Interesting)

    by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @12:52AM (#8866328) Homepage
    Play a game like Black & White for a few hours straight until you don't think about your mouse/wheel motions to move around in the 3D world. Then switch right back to the desktop and see if you don't try to grab the screen to rotate your view or zoom in/out. It's a very strange sensation.

    I'm not sure if a desktop that worked that way would be any easier, but to really use it, you'd have to change over all your normal reflexes. (There is no "try".) That would be a hard sell--which is where the coolness comes in, I suspect. :)

  • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @12:58AM (#8866344)
    I think research in this area is great. I do not believe that we have currently found the be-all, end-all of user interfaces. I mean the metaphor came about when display technology was far more primitive than today, which imposed limits to what could be done. Most of the enhancements to this metaphor have been making things prettier. We see higher resolution icons, with more colours, drop shadows, animations, etc. No real change to the fundimental way things work.

    That's because, so far, we haven't found a better, more intutitve way to do things. That doesn't mean that there isn't a better way we haven't yet discovered. While this probably isn't it, that doesn't mean it isn't useful research along those lines. I really do believe that a better interface is possible by exploiting the 3d capabilities of modern systems. I, of course, don't know what it is or I'd be working to make it a reality, but experimental new interfaces like this is one way to work on finding out. Try it, see what's good, see what bad, try and revise, etc.
  • by mikehoskins ( 177074 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @01:47AM (#8866549)
    Of course, we'd have to use it awhile and study it, to make a real comparison. I can't actually see this site, because of the /. effect, so I'll ramble and speculate....

    Visualizing this in my puny little brain, I "see" a problem -- 3D clutter. If you think your current 2D desktop is cluttered, because of hidden stuff sitting behind stuff, then wait for the 3D effect.... On the other hand, the holy grail of 3D interfaces -- hologram projection and the like -- might have the problem of seeing through the object....

    If you do real/semi-real 3D with actual depth, there could be problems with users having headaches or blurred vision, or flicker, as well, possibly, depending on implementation, yada, yada.

    I think alpha-blending, if done properly, is a better way to unhide relavent information. Dual monitors, wide-screens, or really large screens with a lot of resolution are others.

    I think 3D would look cool, though.
  • Re:Old != Bad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 3770 ( 560838 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @01:52AM (#8866573) Homepage
    Just because you can doesn't mean that you should.

    Other people smoking is not an argument for you to start smoking as well.

    I saw a demo by Jonathan Schwartz from Sun, they are doing the same thing. They had _one_ feature which I thought was nifty, if you were looking at a web page you could turn your browser around and make notes about that web page. But mostly I thought it was cumbersome. But pretty. And therein lies the problem. People will be awed, and fooled into believing that it actually is an improvement.

    Maybe I will be quoted 10 years from now in the same breath as when people talk about IBM predicting that there only was a need for 5 computers in the world and Bill Gates saying that 640KB will be enough memory.

    Maybe so, but I think that there is a good chance that this is a technology looking for a solution, rather than the other way around.

    I don't think that this is innovation. I think it is a _lack_ of innovation. "We can't think of anything better to do with our time and we have all this nifty technology and nVidia is releasing their Ultra 6800, we gotta do something".
  • Re:Not impressed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by some guy I know ( 229718 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @03:58AM (#8866977) Homepage
    Take a look at the interfaces used in [...] Minority Report
    That was a bad interface.
    If I want to dismiss a window or move it to the next virtual screen, it's only one or two keystrokes/mouse clicks/drags, requiring the movement of a few fingers and maybe a slight movement of my forearm(s) or wrist.
    In Minority Report, T.C. was wildly waving his arms about.
    I would be very tired after a few hours of that.
  • Re:Old != Bad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by fucksl4shd0t ( 630000 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @06:17AM (#8867397) Homepage Journal

    What's really needed is a new input device. Mouse + Keyboard is *really* shitty. I'd like something better. I'd like to just wave my hands around and have the stuff I'm using move around. I'd like to just put my finger on the window I want and either write on a pad or just talk into it (yes, I like writing better than typing) and have it take dictation.

    How far are we from being able to just wave our arms around as part of our ui?

  • Re:Google cache.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Nick Harkin ( 589728 ) <slashdot@NOsPAm.cast-computers.co.uk> on Thursday April 15, 2004 @06:33AM (#8867445)
    Sadly it would be all too easy to run into copyright problems here, it's been discussed before tho...
  • by blorg ( 726186 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @08:01AM (#8867707)
    I've got 26 things open right now and between a multi-tabbed browser [opera.com], taskbars over two monitors [realtimesoft.com] and a sidebar [desktopsidebar.com] I don't have any problem getting to what I want. The Alt-Tab Replacement [microsoft.com] helps too.

    Part of the problem with 3D GUIs is that monitors are 2D devices, not 3D. Give me a workable 3D display device and manipulation tools (hint: I'm thinking of 'give me the real world' here) with my 3D GUI and you might have something. Even in the 'real world' however, 2D is often a most useful abstraction. Jakob Nielsen has an interesting column [useit.com] (with rebuttals) on the problems of 3D interfaces.
  • by orion41us ( 707362 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @09:29AM (#8868185)
    Sun [sum.com] has a simmelar project in the works. Codenamed Project Looking Glass [sun.com]. They have a nifty Vid [sun.com]. Based on their Java Desktop.....
  • by cubiceye ( 671634 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @09:29AM (#8868190) Homepage
    CubicEye [2ce.com] is a 3d web browser. It lets you drill through every link from any given page in a tunnel-like structure.
  • Re:Old != Bad (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 15, 2004 @11:24AM (#8869637)
    WindowLab's supposed to be faster for some users, but I haven't tried it yet.
  • Re:Not impressed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Quixadhal ( 45024 ) on Thursday April 15, 2004 @03:58PM (#8873812) Homepage Journal
    If I were a windows programmer, I'd try to implement my idea for a "3D" window manager... namely just using alpha-transparency and the mouse scroll wheel.

    You make whatever window is "active" 100% opaque, and anything above it is set to some very low level, perhaps 10% opaque. Thus, you can still see updates to the upper applications, but should be able to concentrate on the one you're actually using without having to move and reposition anything. Scroll the mouse wheel to change focus up or down the stack -- normal click-to-focus for things at different X/Y coordinates of course.

    That, and find some way to keep friggin' windows apps from stealing keyboard focus away from each other while I'm typing!

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