SimChurch 606
Roland Piquepaille writes "It's Sunday and some of you might go to a church. But starting on May 11, and for a duration of three months, you'll be able to go to a virtual church. Only the building, with its altar and pews, will be virtual. The preacher, congregation and prayers will be real, according to this BBC News article, 'Glimpse inside the virtual church.' This experiment is launched by a Christian website, Ship of Fools, and will be named Church of Fools. Even with such a foolish name, the virtual church project has been approved by the church hierarchy. This overview contains other details and references about the Church of Fools project."
WWJD? (Score:5, Interesting)
On one hand, as a coder, sitting in front of the computer for hours on end I can attest to the meditative state the computer puts me in. I'm not a practicing catholic, but was raised one. Church never really had me contemplating as much as the cathode ray bombarding my brain with it's "green soothing light does". Of course i was a child.
On the other, if this virtual church has "pop up ads" and a whole other pile of garbage, what would jesus do? I mean in the bible he got angry [ubcaustin.org] because the holy place was being disrespected, because the spiritual was being commercialized, because the Temple was being desecrated by those who kill the holy and sell it...
Is this a joke?
Might be a good alternative for some. (Score:5, Interesting)
that (or something very similar) was what my pastor said when i asked him about marring me at my parents house instead of the church building itself. I dont see what that same concept couldnt apply to an online church.
Im actually quite tempted to "show up" may 11th. I was raised a christian, still consider myself one, however for various reasons I rarely attend services anymore.... (mainly lack of motivation on my part to actully get up, get ready & drive over to the church) I fully realize thats no excuse at all.. but visiting a virtual service or two might be just what the doctor ordered.
Re:talk about heresy (Score:5, Interesting)
Will immortals no longer be able to kill the Highlander whilst one of his mozilla tabs has the simchurch open?
In There... (Score:3, Interesting)
There are all kinds of people in games like Second Life, There, and The Sims Online that take the game way too seriously. It's only a matter of time before someone starts religious services, if they haven't already.
I've seen groups of people all wearing shirts with Crosses and quotes like "Got Jesus?" for a while. An official meeting place on Sundays is only one step away.
Are the Christian priests and pastors Avatars? (Score:2, Interesting)
WJWD (Score:5, Interesting)
That's What Jesus Would Do.
Of all the non threatening social situations, I can't imagine a less threatening atmosphere than a church.
But who knows, maybe this will find it's niche.
As long as they don't junk it up with ads and demand membership fees or whatnot the only problem I see with it is that the internet is a wire monkey. It's bad to depend on the internet for your social fix. Real life person to person interaction is necessary. And of all the places to avoid it, church isn't it.
I also have to wonder how they're going to deal with trolls.
Ben
gimmicks have a point (Score:4, Interesting)
come one people (Score:3, Interesting)
Organists Behaving Badly (Score:2, Interesting)
If you want to google for it, I think it was a BBC radio story.
Re:*boggle* (Score:3, Interesting)
I've already been through the experience of receiving a calling from a cushy academic computing job to go to seminary. Now that I've been in seminary for 3 years, I don't think I can ever see myself working full-time in computing again, even if I do love these infernal machines. I'm working part-time in tech now to support my family while I study. Hopefully, my current pastorate will soon become a full-time position, even if the church can never pay me as much as I made as a full-time geek.
As for church being "non-threatening," the church tends to reflect the values of the pastor. I almost applied for the Oxford "i-Church" pastorate, but I'm not Anglican. BTW, they have an interesting question on the application: "Do you own a car?" I'd think a decent computer (preferably running *nix) with a fast connection would matter more.
Re:Sophistry (Score:3, Interesting)
I can tell you a story of a friend who was raised from the dead, of a Chinese preacher who lived for 74 days in prison without food or water, of people with incurable diseases being healed but this will not change a thing. Science cannot explain these things yet your head will not let your heart entertain the idea that there may be a God.
Church of Critical Thinking (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Monotheism (Score:3, Interesting)
This isn't about "keeping the truth from everyone". That's silly. Ask a Jew about his religion, he'll tell you everything you want to know (to the limit of their own knowledge). It's funny, but Judaism the religion has no "secrets only clergy may know". Even kaballah was not really secret so much as reserved for people who had a deep understanding of Jewish knowledge already - the thought was that you'd go crazy if you didn't understand it properly. Nowadays, of course, any idiot can go buy a copy of the Zohar (in English, too!). Hardly secret knowledge!
Anyways, back on topic. Jews have no desire to convert gentiles because there's no need whatsoever. If they (the gentile) observe the seven Noachide laws (which, I may add, are not exactly hard to keep), they go to heaven. It's a pretty damned good deal, considering "real Jews" have to keep 613 commandments. A bit more reward for that, but heaven is heaven, and it's better than nothing.
Additionally, in a historical context, _every forced conversion_ of a population (it happened twice, IIRC, Samaritans and I think some population in northern Israel/Lebanon) was a big huge mistake, and it is taught that way in even the most right-wing of yeshivas. Therefore, you're never going to see any popular groundswell of support for forced conversion in Jewish religion. The "tradition" is, thankfully, not there, and is actively reviled.
So, interpret not as "hiding", but rather as "what's the point of converting?" That's why you're supposed to turn away someone who wants to convert 3 times before trying to help them. It's out of their best interests.
I suppose the inevitable question then becomes, why would anyone ever _really_ convert to Judaism? I honestly don't have an answer. I think it's emotional and spiritual attachment to the Jewish people. That's the best I can give.
A final addendum: Jews don't believe you go to hell for not being Jewish and not keeping the seven noachide laws. An interesting contrast to Christianity, I think.
-Erwos
hmmmm..... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Monotheism (Score:3, Interesting)
A final addendum: Christians don't believe you go to heaven for keeping a set of laws. An interesting contrast to Judaism, I think.
Re:WJWD (Score:2, Interesting)
Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.
Matthew 4:23(NIV)
Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked.
Matthew 13:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
John 6:54-59
Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
Luke 2:41-47
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: "The Spirit of the Lord is on me,because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him,and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing." All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. "Isn't this Joseph's son?" they asked. Jesus said to them, "Surely you will quote this proverb to me: 'Physician, heal yourself! Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.' " "I tell you the truth," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown. I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah's time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon.And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed--only Naaman the Syrian." All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff.But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.
Luke 4:16-30
Q:"What would Jesus do?"
A: He would go to the synagogue and occasionally be kicked out of it because the people there would be offended by his trolling. So I wonder have you been kicked out of Church lately? He certainly didn't appear to make friends there.
Oh, and if you want to cite the "Last Supper", to support your idea, it was a "Passover Seder", and not a mass.
Re:Sophistry (Score:2, Interesting)
Here's the full story:
My friend (let's call him Bob) grew up as a Satanist. His father is still the head of a Satanic group. Through his girlfriend and eventual wife he became a Christian. He constantly battled Satan's forces both physically, mentally and spiritual. One day he suddenly fell into a coma. The doctor's could not find any reason for it. While in hospital, during visiting hours, a group of Satanists visited him, chanted around his bed for a while before being chased off by one of Bob's friends. Not long after however he died (flatlined and all that). Twenty minutes later, before being taken away he sat straight up and asked if he could go home. Later that day he was on the net telling his story. The next morning milking the cows.
Re:talk about heresy (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, I don't know your gender, but lets make some suppositions:
If you are male, then you are asking females to either be rather petite (or anorexic), or pretty smart (IQ 145? That's pretty high.). Despite what some mags make you think, 100 lbs isn't the average weight a white female. Try 140 lbs for a 30 yr. old woman Halls Md [halls.md]. (this is the 50th percentile). This means that if you are male, then you are looking for a woman with an IQ of at least 140. 145 would put her at THREE standard deviations above the mean of the population (by definition), which only something like 0.01% of the population. Not bloody likely.
Now, if you are female, then this is even more unlikely--the 50th percentile of men at age 30 are 170 lbs; in order to surpass this mark they would need to have an IQ at LEAST 4.67 std. deviations above the mean. Percentage wise this is less than 0.0001% of the population. Even less bloody likely!
For information the current US population is about 270,000,000 (give or take). Assuming an even gender split, and saying 50% are over 18 (making it legal), if you are male, you are saying you will only date about 675,000 of the people in the US. While this is a large number, you have to realize that some of them will be older, and some younger. Also, you have to consider that many of them are probably already married or dating. Your numbers are dwindling.
If you are female, then that number drops to 6,750, which is also high due to married ones, etc. You are being very selective here.
So my final question is: how do you plan to meet them? Good luck.
(BTW, my post fails to account for the possibility that you might be male looking for a male, or female looking for a female. Let's just say that the available population dwindles even further in that case.)
Re:Have to wonder (Score:3, Interesting)
Jesus said plenty about the thoughts being as significant as the deed. Look at a woman lustfully = committing adultery with her in your heart. Be angry with your brother = subject to judgement.
See: Matthew Chapter 5 [gospelcom.net]
In fact what Jesus talks about has become even more applicable as time goes on - technology exists to allow people to have virtual sex with each other without physical contact. Errant husbands can't say it isn't adultery coz it's not "real" by Jesus's terms.
With the brain chips they've tested on monkeys and are testing on the paralyzed, soon people may even be able to kill others without even moving a finger - just thinking about it would be enough. Previously you had to speak or press a key or click on a mouse.
Re:That is what is worrying about fundamentalists. (Score:2, Interesting)
It is instead, the null set.
Consider this programming analogy:
Religion religion;
religion = new Religion("Javaism");
religion = null;
Still, if one were to consider atheism an instance of religion, then it's one that predates all others and that will remain strong when the current majors are reduced to an obscure entry in Wikipedia.
If we ever encounter alien sentients likewise infected with religion, the only thing we'll have in common will be atheism.
Humans are born atheist and then forced to convert by their legal wards.