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Google Businesses The Internet The Almighty Buck

Google to be Sued Over Name? 800

WK writes "Now that Google's IPO is running, the company is on the verge of being sued by the family of Professor Edward Kasner who invented the word 'Googol' to describe a very big number. The great-niece of Kasner who was 4 years old at the time her uncle died says that although Google has brought attention to the name, it has not brought attention to Kasner's work. Google was not using the concepts, but just capitalizing on the name."
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Google to be Sued Over Name?

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  • Baaahhh.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by microbob ( 29155 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @08:57AM (#9182208)
    Give me a frigging break! Had "google.com" sucked rocks you wouldn't be saying a word.

    Now that google.com is just about to IPO you come crawling out of the wood work.

    Go back home...

    -mb

  • Are you serious? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kulaid982 ( 704089 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @08:57AM (#9182211)

    "googol" and "google.com" aren't even spelled the same! Gimme a break.
  • Wake up! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @08:58AM (#9182214)
    Is everyone asleep - this lady is just greedy!
  • Silly (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mfh ( 56 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @08:58AM (#9182222) Homepage Journal
    I'm sorry but this is fucking retarded. Why would anyone think it would be okay to sue a company named Google for using a possible variant of the un-trademarked word Googol to describe a business that creates a data searching system? If there is a connection, why doesn't dictionary.com show one in the google definition [reference.com]? I could see perhaps a case if Google was called Googol, but this appears to be nothing more than a cash grab by a family of broke twits. Besides, the guy didn't invent the word! His 9 year old nephew did [www.fpx.de]! From that link: The american mathematician Edward Kasner once asked his nine-year-old nephew to invent a name for a very large number, ten to the power of one hundred; and the boy called it a googol.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @08:59AM (#9182236)
    I think the niece has clearly indicated that money is more important than her uncle's name and reputation...
  • by ComaVN ( 325750 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @08:59AM (#9182242)
    No?

    Ok, nothing to see here, move along.

    How the fuck do you invent a word.
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by savagedome ( 742194 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:00AM (#9182244)
    I agree completely. If google.com was a fly-by-night dot com, we would not even have known of this family's existence.

    they want to become IPO insiders to put his soul to rest.

    This statement is so repulsive that it would leave a bad taste for the rest of the day.
  • pfft (Score:2, Insightful)

    by NickeB ( 763713 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:00AM (#9182249)
    Google is searching through a very big number of webpages! Don't you all see? :)
  • by Anti Frozt ( 655515 ) <chris...buffett@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:00AM (#9182253)

    than if I named my company "One Hundred Billion?" (raises pinky finger to corner of mouth)

    Can you get a copyright/trademark on a number?

  • by BigGar' ( 411008 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:01AM (#9182259) Homepage
    the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.
  • So instead of having her father's name attached to a hugely successful web search engine she'd rather have it attached to some lawsuit that is going to make her family look like a bunch of assholes once the media gets wind of it.

    Good one!
  • googol.com (Score:2, Insightful)

    by hyperherod ( 574576 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:01AM (#9182264)
  • Ofcourse! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:01AM (#9182266) Journal
    In 1955 he died and much later a search engine called Google was born. His relatives claim that Kasner must be spinning in his grave. They believe Google has gained financially at their expense and they want to become IPO insiders to put his soul to rest.

    As wel all know, potentially large sums of money can put a deceased loved one to rest. Why doesn't Google solve it creatively? Add a small line of text with a link that states what a googol is, with a tribute to Kasner, his work and his other achievements? The man and his work have been recognized, the family doesn't get a cent and everyone, except those greedy bastards, is happy.

  • by Anti Frozt ( 655515 ) <chris...buffett@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:03AM (#9182278)

    Neither are Windows and Lindows. Look what happened there.

  • Terrible (Score:2, Insightful)

    by icypyr0 ( 636724 ) <icypyroNO@SPAMwi.rr.com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:03AM (#9182282)
    Its really terrible what some people will do for money.. they have curiously abstained from even raising the issue until now, after the IPO, when they will get the most press and probably win the largest sum (if they win at all).
  • by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:05AM (#9182302) Homepage Journal
    Does anyone think its the slightest bit innovative to give a name to a very big number? I think this is just a publicity scam capitalizing on the coming IPO. Google's lawyers should have to trouble with this one.
  • by MoronGames ( 632186 ) <cam.henlin@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:06AM (#9182313) Journal
    Yes, but Windows and Lindows are both operating systems. Google is a search engine, googol is a number.
  • by JessLeah ( 625838 ) * on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:06AM (#9182317)
    At what point are people -- rational people-- going to get together and form a coalition to bring about a bloodless coup, lift the Democrats and Republicans from office, wipe clean the slate of stupid laws and ridiculous political/legal traditions, form a new American government starting from the foundation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and finally make it so that bullshit like this is the exception rather than the norm? Good God, the nation's gone absolutely ape-shit. When's the revolution, and how can it be brought about without further bloodshed? Ridiculous lawsuits like this are just a symptom of how detached from reality the US has gotten.

    I'm good and sick of this "lawyerocracy" we have here. I'd love to see a "geekocracy".
  • Too...many... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Geek_3.3 ( 768699 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:09AM (#9182351)
    ...stupid... frivilous... lawsuits... urge to kill... RISING...

    "In 1955 he died and much later a search engine called Google was born. His relatives claim that Kasner must be spinning in his grave. They believe Google has gained financially at their expense and they want to become IPO insiders to put his soul to rest."

    YOU GOTTA BE FRIGGIN' KIDDING ME!! They 'want to become IPO insiders to put his soul to rest???' That has to be the LAMEST reason for a lawsuit in the history of lawsuits! (right next to copyright infringement of a certain OS kernel w/o actually SAYING what it is or spilling hot coffee on one's self and successfully sueing BECAUSE of it...)

    I need a drink...
  • by cowscows ( 103644 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:10AM (#9182362) Journal
    Windows is a trademarked name for a limited and specific set of commercial software, developed through the work of thousands of engineers/programmers, at a costs way into the millions of dollars.

    Googol is a word that some kid made up to describe a big number that existed a priori. Even if you could sell a googol of something(that'd be a whole hell of a lot), you can't sell a googol itself.
  • by Casualposter ( 572489 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:10AM (#9182375) Journal
    I suppose that Groklaw is going down for using "grok," a term coined by R A Heinlein?

    This is so stupid.

  • Re:Silly (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DrNibbler ( 547534 ) <sean@@@seanreiser...com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:12AM (#9182400) Homepage Journal
    Minor Nit... I'd say "pay hommage" instead of "admit" as they've done nothing wrong.
  • Cha-ching!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jkabbe ( 631234 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:12AM (#9182402)
    Talk about trying to cash in on success! I doubt they have a legal leg to stand on. To my knowledge googol wasn't trademarked. So it's not like he was trying to restrict use of the term. In fact, since an effort was made to get it into the general mathematical parlance, pretty much the opposite is true.
  • by joshamania ( 32599 ) <jggramlich&yahoo,com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:17AM (#9182460) Homepage
    Mickey Mouse is a brand name and Disney goes to great links to protect that. Same with Star Trek and Frodo. Googol, on the other hand, is a word. It has never been associated with any brand or trademark this family owns or derives income from.

    This is nothing more than a bullshit land grab by theives. Period. They are trying to steal from Google and I wonder what snake put them up to it if they hadn't come up with it themselves...absolute crap.
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by B'Trey ( 111263 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:18AM (#9182469)
    No one is denying the source of the word. However, coining a word does not mean that you control it, particularly absent a trademark.
  • by dar ( 15755 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:20AM (#9182504) Homepage
    I grok what you are saying, however the term has passed into the normal English language (even if it's usage is not that common)

    So has the word googol.
  • Legal silliness (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kitzilla ( 266382 ) <paperfrog@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:20AM (#9182505) Homepage Journal
    They believe Google has gained financially at their expense ...

    I can't wait to see how these folks' lawyers quantify losses at Google's hands, or how Google's registered trademark causes confusion with the customers of the word "googol."

  • by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:22AM (#9182524) Homepage
    It's not trademark law. The family never trademarked the term "Googol." It's not copyright law, or else a whole lot of mathematics textbooks are in trouble. For once it's not Patent law.

    Is there even a realm of law that would cover such a thing?

    Not that I would trust the Inqirer to report the facts without mangling them horribly...

  • by daniel_mcl ( 77919 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:22AM (#9182527)
    By "Kasner's work" I believe she is referring to his work popularizing mathematics. Kasner was one of the first high-profile mathematicians, the equivalent of Richard Feynman or Stephen Hawking in his day. He was a brilliant topologist, but as well a brilliant teacher, and the words Googol and Googolplex were heavily popularized by him -- certainly everyone I knew growing up had heard of the numbers.

    If I were in google's shoes, I'd probably use some of the money to establish a foundation in memory of Kasner or something. I certainly would not send money to a niece who barely ever knew him and was clearly trying to moralize her overt money grab. And I would be fully cognizant of the fact I was under no legal or ethical obligation to do *anything*. Mathematics stands out as one of the areas in which knowledge is the most free, and any attempt to force it into the death-march of the music, movie, and software industries is morally repulsive.
  • Public Domain (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:27AM (#9182581)
    But the name of a number is MENT to be used in the public domain. I don't think anyone can put a copyright on the alphanumeric tag for a 1 followed by 9 zeros (1,000,000,000 also known as a billion). Or for that matter, why isn't Infinity car company, Infinity audio, etc being sued for using the term INFINITY??
  • Re:Interesting (Score:2, Insightful)

    by daniel_mcl ( 77919 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:32AM (#9182641)
    Mathematics is non-trademarkable and non-patentable, and most (if not all) mathematicians want to keep it that way. There is very clearly no legal grounds for any of this, as the niece herself admits.
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mick Ohrberg ( 744441 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .grebrho.kcim.> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:33AM (#9182649) Homepage Journal
    Sounds to me like another MikeRoweSoft.com [slashdot.org] - except the other way around. Or something.
  • by DroopyStonx ( 683090 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:35AM (#9182671)
    I hate to see what the future brings...

    I don't doubt that some mathematician will discover a formula or specific method of doing a calculation, will name it after himself, and then try to patent it to prevent universities and schools from teaching it.

    There should be a law that prevents this type of thing. "Googol" represents a number, that's all. What's to copyright? Had Google not existed, these people wouldn't have made a profit anyway. They're flat out using the law in a way it WASN'T meant to be used to steal money away from this company, and that's wrong.
  • by Mr Guy ( 547690 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:57AM (#9182904) Journal
    No, you misunderstood. To use a neologism is to femplesnip. Femplesnip is also a neologism.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @10:09AM (#9183041)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by wo1verin3 ( 473094 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @10:17AM (#9183149) Homepage
    How can they have a case?

    Googol isn't a trademark, registered or otherwise. It's now a number, one commonly (well not as common as 10) used. Even if it was a trademark, there has been no defence of it for so many years which means they could easily have lost it. You must actively defend a trademark in order to retain rights to it.
  • Re:Kinda shaky (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bastian ( 66383 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @10:42AM (#9183421)
    Once you start talking about digital artworks, it gets harder to make the argument that it exists a priori just because all digital art can be mapped onto the natural numbers. For one, a string of bits could represent a theoretically infinite number of different digital artworks, depending on how you interpret that string of bits. Is it a picture? Is it compressed audio? Are you supposed to just look at the bits and admire their sublime bit-ness?

    So it would seem that the art isn't just the number, it's also in the technique for interpreting the number - which isn't in the number. (And can't be in the number, because how would you interpret the portion of the number that tells you how to interpret the number?) If you don't have this technique (and know that you need to apply it), the number is just a number, and nothing else.

    So unless you can successfully find a way to mechanically generate all possible ways to interpret this data, I'm not sure you'll be all that successful in getting this stuff into the public domain.
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by haystor ( 102186 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @10:50AM (#9183517)
    Seriously, don't you people have anything better to do than look for something that is wrong. Finding a typo in a post on a message bored isn't such a big deal. I hope you are proud of yourself.

    What's more glaring, a single character typo or an extra post jammed in the middle of a thread that offers nothing constructive.

    Yea, maybe I don't know the difference between owners and owner's. Maybe I wrote owner's on purpose and backspaced the end of the sentence and changed which owner'?s I should have been using. Maybe English is my second language. Maybe I touch type and the occasional homonym comes out wrong because I never look at it. Maybe my editor is on vacation and couldn't spend time reviewing my work for correctness.

    Does anyone really read threw there posts for accuracy?

    Mod parent and myself down, thanks.
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nelsonal ( 549144 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @11:05AM (#9183691) Journal
    Except that Google's founders will control super voting stock which makes them the ultimate "insiders". Depending on how many shares are offered, they will likely have 90% of the voting rights of the company's total offering. Most of the time, this class of stock is non dilutive, unless the owners agree to let their vote be diluted. So even if they grant 100,000,000 options a year, they keep the same percentage of control over directors, board meetings, and other strategic decisions.
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jim Starx ( 752545 ) <JStarx AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @11:16AM (#9183811)
    Why can you even sue over this? If it's a mathmatical concept it should be public domain. It's the equivilent of suing someone over using the word dozen. You can't trademark a quantity can you??
  • Re:I Disagree (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GoRK ( 10018 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @11:18AM (#9183831) Homepage Journal
    Well, they have a whole paragraph on it [google.com] no less than 2 clicks from their homepage. They aren't trying to hide anything, and they recognize the origin of the name quite openly.

    Which means this lawsuit was cooked up by a money grubbing crybaby bitch with total disregard to legacy. If she had some kind of decency in her, she probably could have gotten google to sponsor a scholarship or something else actually appropriate (note: it's likely they already *do*), but instead she jumps to a lawsuit.

    Her great uncle is probably rolling in his grave.
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr. No Skills ( 591753 ) <[lskywalker] [at] [hotmail.com]> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @11:32AM (#9184004) Journal
    Not saying this lawsuit has any grounds, but the origins of "googol" are well known.

    Maybe the origins of the mispelling.

    "Barney Google and Snuffy Smith [kingfeatures.com]" was first published in 1919. Maybe King Features shuld sue Google first.

  • Re:I Disagree (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gryphokk ( 648488 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @11:36AM (#9184055) Homepage Journal
    As has been pointed out several times already, Google has provided credit [google.com] where credit is due.

    This family is dishonoring the work of their ancestor by trying to change what was once a gift to the mathematical language into a cash sale.

    They already have credit where credit is due. They now also want cash -- where credit is due.

    This is another SCO type thing, where some generous intellectual chooses to enhance our quality of life, and someone else comes along and notices they "forgot" to make every dime they could off of it.

    If they succeed in this (doubtful) it will cast negative aspersions on their forefather's work and reputation, and run contrary to the natural evolution of language.

    And the old man will come back to haunt them and curse their wealth!

  • by Glonoinha ( 587375 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @11:47AM (#9184191) Journal
    -There were _lots_ of pre-1985 uses of the word "Windows" in the computer field.

    Oh? Given that the strongest home user chip predating 1984 was the 1MHz 6502, the Motorola 6800 and maybe the blazingly fast 4.7MHz 8086 ... that shortly before then the most common method of interfacing with a computer was via punch cards and printed output - I'm guessing that the use of the word 'Windows' in the tech sector in the two decades spanning 1963 to 1983 had a lot to do with looking outside to see the grass and trees and nothing to do with technology.
  • googly eyes (Score:2, Insightful)

    by kabloom ( 755503 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @11:54AM (#9184278) Homepage
    I always thought Google had to do with those "googly eyes" that you use to do crafts projects - this was my first impression when I visited google. So how can they say it's infringing on Googol?
  • Re:Baaahhh.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sfjoe ( 470510 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:12PM (#9184445)
    Why can you even sue over this?

    You can sue over anything and everything.
    Whether or not you'll be successful is another matter.
  • Re:I Disagree (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:24PM (#9184598) Homepage
    She has the right to try to preserve it


    Except, of course, that this lawsuit has very little to do with preserving the word 'Googol', and a whole lot to do with trying to ca$h in on Google's upcoming IPO. If it was about preserving the word's original meaning, why would they be trying to extort shares of stock?

  • by booch ( 4157 ) <slashdot2010NO@SPAMcraigbuchek.com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:44PM (#9184846) Homepage
    During lawsuits between Intel and AMD over the 486, the courts ruled that a number cannot be trademarked. That's why Intel's next chip was called the Pentium, not the 586. (Intel also named the later 486 chips "i486".) This is also why Google chose to NOT use the name "googol", because they wouldn't be able to trademark that.

    There's also the issue of scope. A trademark does not usually apply to everything, but to a limited area. If the areas of use are distinct and unlikely to cause confusion, the same name can be used by different companies. That's why Apple Records and Apple Computer were able to coexist (until iPod and iTunes came along -- expect some serious friction coming from these two). A search site and a number are unlikely to be confused.

    Finally there is the issue of asserting ownership. Trademarks can be lost if they are not used or enforced. The usual examples of companies on the verge of losing their trademarks due to non-enforcement are Xerox and Kleenex. The family has allowed (you might even say encouraged) the term googol to be used by the mathematics community for decades. To now assert that the word should be reserved for only "authorized" use is ridiculous.

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