Hybrid Fleet Vehicles

howman writes "This article in the Toronto Star tells of a Canadian company called Azure Dynamics Corp. which has a novel approach to cutting fuel costs and harmful emissions in fleet vehicles. The novelty is not so much in their technology but in the fact that they are hitting the fleet vehicle users market. While Azure doesn't manufacture any of the components, it 'works with the companies that make all the parts for Canada Post's trucks or Purolator's vans - the engines, the chassis, and so on - to convert those vehicles into HEVs.' With an existing and potential client list that includes Purolator, Canada Post, the United States Postal Service and Renault and London Taxi International, it may not be long before you see one of their branded vehicles on a street near you."

Critical Mass

[Gothmolly]

Here in Rhode Island, USA, we have several propane filling stations, however they're all clearly marked "State Vehicles Only". So while its nice to see the State Troopers and trolley buses cruising around on propane, there needs to be more filling stations, and they need to be available to the general public.
These sorts of alternative energy options always require a certain critical mass, or number of cars, or number of users, before they're economically viable. (No comments from the anti-gasoline tinfoil hat crowd, please)

Great idea!

[Mz6]

This is probably one of the best business idea I have read in a while. They stay away from actually producing the products that will make up the car, but they build the packages to transform the car into a HEV. I think that's just brilliant!

Good idea

[JosKarith]

Of course the Stop-Start kind of driving that these vehicles will be doing is perfect for hybrids.

Re:aluminium batteries

[Bushcat]

I dunno, my milk and mail was delivered reliably every morning by EV decades ago.

only the BIG companies are able to do this...

[garcia]

What's more, Azure makes plain that its customers must put their money where their mouth is. Interested parties have to commit up front that they'll place an order before Azure builds a prototype; if Azure achieves what it promises in emission reductions and fuel-cost savings, the customer has to pay for and receive the order.

"There are lots of tire-kickers, but if we perform, they agree to buy," said Deacon.

While their potential/interested clients are big ones it seems like a lot to ask in order to get a fleet out there for you.

Analysts believe Azure will make it. MacMurray is forecasting the company to lift itself out of the red by 2007 -- mainly because demand for hybrid vehicles that rely less on gasoline and don't pollute as much will continue to be strong.

We'll see. I wish them the best of luck but I doubt that they will be able to create what they say they can every time and with such a "small" possible base of customers.

Makes Perfect Sense

[laigle]

Fleet vehicles rack up more mileage, so they get a better return on investment with hybrids. Plus they're in a better position to absorb the increased up front costs than consumers. I've seen a lot more switchover to alternative fuel technologies and the like with fleet vehicles than the general public. Hopefully this will provide the needed incentive to get these technologies into commercially viable stages of development.

Re:Emissions

[91degrees]

Perhaps overall, no, but it should have a significant effect in some very localised areas. For example, in central London, virtually all traffic is busses and taxis. Redcuing that will have a significant effect on the air quality near major roads.

Re:The electricity still comes from fossil fuels!

[Anonymous Coward]

yes. it does. but the cost of generating electricity by power plant is cheaper than the cost of generating electricity by your car. Thats where the cost benefits are.

Wot! No electric cars!

[seniorcoder]

I would ideally like to buy an electric car. Things were looking good. The major manufacturers were starting to produce them. GM EV1, Ford Ranger, Toyota RAV4 all available electric.
Now where are they? The RAV4 was only available to fleet buyers. Ford has stopped production of the electric Ranger, GM stopped leasing the EV1 and crushed the lot.

Two questions:
1. What happened? 2. I still want an electric car. Any suggestions?

Re:confused

[Scrameustache]

how do I root for Canada and still call myself an American?

I suggest looking at a map, and figuring out the limits of America. Little known fact, not many people in the United States know this, but America actually extends a bit north of Vermont and a tad south of Texas...
;-)

Re:Critical Mass

[shreak]

Hydorgen fuel cells are not a fuel, they are a storage mechanism. Where do you get the Hydrogen to fuel your fuel cell? Probably from a non-renewable hydrocarbon (like propane or butane) or from an energy company that produces your hydrogen compound by using traditional energy sources (electricity from oil or coal).

Hopefully there will be an efficiency gain due to economies of scale (produce lots of power in one place and distribute it) But don't make the mistake of thinking that by moving around where the petrolium fuel is produced that the problem is gone.

=Shreak

Re:confused

[Smidge204]

When someone says "American", they generally mean the country of "The United States of America", or a citizen thereof. If they mean another country, they will usually use a more specific name, eg "Canadian", "Mexican", "Brazilian", etc.

If refering to the continent, generally they will specify "North", "Central" or "South" America, and it will be apparent they are talking about a continent based on context.

While it may be technically correct to refer someone living in Canada as an "American" because that's the name of the general continent they're on, it is generally not something you do unless you want to be a total sh*thead and want to start a symantics argument. ;-)
=Smidge=

Electric vehicles are viable now.

[Moderation abuser]

250-400 mile ranges are possible using existing battery technology. You can buy vehicles now which will do that at motorway speeds. Pretty much in line with current petrol vehicles.

That said, the batteries are not your standard lead/acid ones and are still very expensive, but that's purely down to the manufacturing capacity.

using GPS to switch between fuel and battery?

[pomakis]

The article states:

The iconic black cabs, which have been retrofitted with Azure's hybrid-electric powertrains, were designed to cut emissions in London's smoggy downtown core. A global positioning device installed in the cabs will automatically switch the engine to battery power when it enters the city centre and switch it back to fuel when it leaves.

This seems a bit strange. One has to wonder why the decision to switch isn't up to the driver. I'm sure it's not an issue of convenience, since pressing a button is hardly a chore. Would it be for regulatory reasons? Perhaps the thought is that the drivers will want to stay on fuel power because it gives them more oomph, but that this system will force the switchover to satisfy whatever regulatory requirements are put in place. If this is true, it would seem to be a mostly unstated negative point about the technology. Creating unhappy drivers isn't the greatest way of going about pushing a brave new technology.

Hmm. Diesel-Electric?

[Mike Hicks]

Looks like these guys are focusing on turning diesels into diesel-electric. Delivery vehicles often run on diesel and the London Taxis use it as well. Not really surprising that a company has been trying out that technology, since people have been using it in trains since the 1930s or so (of course, most diesel-electric trains don't incorporate batteries to store extra energy, as far as I know).

Well, the diesel-electric train is the series hybrid type, where the engine isn't directly connected to the wheels. I imagine this company had to do a fair amount of work on the parallel hybrid type where both the engine and electric motor connect to the wheels. My understanding is that, theoretically, series hybrids are more efficient. If true, it confuses me why most hybrids we're seeing these days use the parallel style (or a variation on it) instead. I guess I've heard that, with the Prius for example, the electric motor balances out the power curve of the engine. Electric motors have extremely high torque at low RPMs, but apparently become less efficient at higher RPMs where gasoline engines are better. Of course, diesel engines have a different power curve than gasoline engines, with more torque and horsepower appearing at low RPM (probably one reason why semis have like 15 gears ;-)

Anyway, GM has their Electro-Motive Division (EMD) that has been producing diesel-electric trains for decades. I'm curious why nobody there has (at least publicly) demonstrated some diesel-electric trucks/vans/etc.

Re:aluminium batteries

[cstream_chris]

Don't forget to charge up your batteries for an electric car with that electricity created by coal. Coal accounts for 50%+ of the electricity in the US.

Re:aluminium batteries

[toddestan]

Don't forget to charge up your batteries for an electric car with that electricity created by coal. Coal accounts for 50%+ of the electricity in the US.

Atleast we mine coal locally here in the US, and generally coal power plants are cleaner than gasoline powered cars. But the original point stands, electric vehicles aren't the answer to our dependence on fossil fuels.